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Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
NickSuccorso wrote:Why exactly should CCP overlook this fisaco? They have issued bans for actions that affected far less players than Goonswarms actions this weekend. If CCP chooses to change the EULA to allow attacks specifically targeting their hardware in response, that is fine. However as it stands right now intentional attacks on CCPs hardware are against the EULA and should be dealt with very seriously.
There were thousands of players involved in running mining bots in empire. Thousands of permenant bans were issued. There were thousands of people involved in the node crash DBRB ordered. The same standard should apply to them. CCP needs to send a clear message to the community that intentionally targeting their hardware is not acceptable.
Ban 'em all.
If they can't gank retrievers, they are useless. Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew |
Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
They admitted it in another thread also.
Ban, Ban, Ban, and permaban.
I'm sure ccp has logs of all this. Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew |
Prince Kobol
1213
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Here is the problem CCP have.
Let just say for argument sakes that DBRB did order his dreads log on /off repeatedly and all Domi pilots to launch their drones, what can CCP do?
Launching drones is fine, CCP can not ban anybody for giving the order of launching drones, from here on in every fleet that uses drones boats will just be reported, it would be a stupid move on CCP part say the least.
I am sure that some part of this was CFC trying to show CCP that there is a major issue with drones, well we already know this lol.
The second issue of dreads logging in and out, here is the thing, anybody who has been in large fleet fight where TiDi is at 10% and you are getting hit by lag, logging off / on is a something you can do when you mods get stuck.
I have flow logi many times in 10% + Lag and sometimes a couple of my reppers have become totally non-responsive. As in other reppers will cycle were as othera will just red flash for a completely random amount time, log off / on does fix this.
So it all depends on context.
Now of course CCP have more information then anybody here does and it they feel that it was a deliberate move on DBRB's to crash the node I have no doubt he will be banned, I just can't see them having conclusive proof to ban him as both of his instructions are valid.
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Rekon X
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 02:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Here is the problem CCP have.
Let just say for argument sakes that DBRB did order his dreads log on /off repeatedly and all Domi pilots to launch their drones, what can CCP do?
Launching drones is fine, CCP can not ban anybody for giving the order of launching drones, from here on in every fleet that uses drones boats will just be reported, it would be a stupid move on CCP part say the least.
I am sure that some part of this was CFC trying to show CCP that there is a major issue with drones, well we already know this lol.
The second issue of dreads logging in and out, here is the thing, anybody who has been in large fleet fight where TiDi is at 10% and you are getting hit by lag, logging off / on is a something you can do when you mods get stuck.
I have flow logi many times in 10% + Lag and sometimes a couple of my reppers have become totally non-responsive. As in other reppers will cycle were as othera will just red flash for a completely random amount time, log off / on does fix this.
So it all depends on context.
Now of course CCP have more information then anybody here does and it they feel that it was a deliberate move on DBRB's to crash the node I have no doubt he will be banned, I just can't see them having conclusive proof to ban him as both of his instructions are valid.
Permaban the weasels. Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
233
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Here is the problem CCP have.
Let just say for argument sakes that DBRB did order his dreads log on /off repeatedly and all Domi pilots to launch their drones, what can CCP do?
Launching drones is fine, CCP can not ban anybody for giving the order of launching drones, from here on in every fleet that uses drones boats will just be reported, it would be a stupid move on CCP part say the least.
I am sure that some part of this was CFC trying to show CCP that there is a major issue with drones, well we already know this lol.
The second issue of dreads logging in and out, here is the thing, anybody who has been in large fleet fight where TiDi is at 10% and you are getting hit by lag, logging off / on is a something you can do when you mods get stuck.
I have flow logi many times in 10% + Lag and sometimes a couple of my reppers have become totally non-responsive. As in other reppers will cycle were as othera will just red flash for a completely random amount time, log off / on does fix this.
So it all depends on context.
Now of course CCP have more information then anybody here does and it they feel that it was a deliberate move on DBRB's to crash the node I have no doubt he will be banned, I just can't see them having conclusive proof to ban him as both of his instructions are valid.
While I agree that banning people for using drones would be idiotic, arguing you only used an exploit to show it existed is even worse. CCP doesn't need to be shown that purposely stressing the servers... stresses the servers. Any middle school kid can tell you that. So no, players shouldn't be banned for launching drones. Purposely stressing the server to facilitate a crash, even if you cry about how you just wanted to help, should result in a forced leave of absence. After all, I don't think anyone is unaware that increased server load causes issues such as lag, desynch and crashes. In fact, there are countless threads complaining about this, proving that it's a well known issue which does not require any more publicity. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
Cato Black
Meltdown.
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5312
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cato Black wrote:Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. Boat got all his FC keys taken away after Asakai, haha.
Because of jumping into lowsec in supers, rite There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
961
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
The level of grrgoons as of late has been kind of high, honestly.
I'm going to meta the metagame and speculate that Goons are intentionally playing up the "intentional node crash" conspiracy via alts while trying to make it look like their enemies are the ones complaining. That way, the metagame looks like it's goon enemies slinging mud out of fear over OmegaFleet. Goon enemies become demoralized, won't log in, culture victory.
It's layers within layers man, who knows how deep the rabbit hole goes. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Cato Black
Meltdown.
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Cato Black wrote:Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. Boat got all his FC keys taken away after Asakai, haha. Because of jumping into lowsec in supers, rite
Well, I wasn't going to come right out and say Asakai :p
I sold my old char and bought this because grrr Nullsec, not grrrr goons, so I wanted to maintain at least a modicum of nicety. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6999
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cato Black wrote:Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1t3375/dy_goonfleet_loggs_352am/ce4384x
Vily (a capital FC unlike Boat) wrote:i know its gonna interrupt your spin session, but boat wasn't in charge of anything save bombers.
Everyone in caps knows not to take boats orders.
I am curios as to when these logs are from in the span of the battle. As i dont remember us having a mixed domi/dreadfleet at any point.
anyways, as one of the 3 people actually making decisions for CFC, i can safely say we talked about node crashes, implications on the battle etc. but at no point did we actually say "we gots to crash the node bros" Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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Cato Black
Meltdown.
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
I knew there were other people out there smart enough to pick up on that!
Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun in some Boat fleets, but when I saw DBRB as FC for an op I planned on not copming home with my ship or my pod! |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
793
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cato Black wrote:Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1t3375/dy_goonfleet_loggs_352am/ce4384xVily (a capital FC unlike Boat) wrote:i know its gonna interrupt your spin session, but boat wasn't in charge of anything save bombers.
Everyone in caps knows not to take boats orders.
I am curios as to when these logs are from in the span of the battle. As i dont remember us having a mixed domi/dreadfleet at any point.
anyways, as one of the 3 people actually making decisions for CFC, i can safely say we talked about node crashes, implications on the battle etc. but at no point did we actually say "we gots to crash the node bros"
Joke's on Vily for thinking it would actualyl interrupt the spin session... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6999
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Joke's on Vily for thinking it would actualyl interrupt the spin session... Never underestimate the collective nerdrage of pubbies. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5312
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Cato Black wrote:Before my old character left GSF I remember that DBRB was not allowed to FC cap fleets, so how exactly is he able to command the dreads to log off and back on? I don't know about you, but I would be listening to my FC, not boat, when my 2 bil+ isk ship was on the line. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1t3375/dy_goonfleet_loggs_352am/ce4384xVily (a capital FC unlike Boat) wrote:i know its gonna interrupt your spin session, but boat wasn't in charge of anything save bombers.
Everyone in caps knows not to take boats orders.
I am curios as to when these logs are from in the span of the battle. As i dont remember us having a mixed domi/dreadfleet at any point.
anyways, as one of the 3 people actually making decisions for CFC, i can safely say we talked about node crashes, implications on the battle etc. but at no point did we actually say "we gots to crash the node bros" Joke's on Vily for thinking it would actualyl interrupt the spin session... A mixed dread and dominix fleet is pretty nice....
Wait, Vily... can you confirm the evemail sent to the whole alliance that the mittani is losing power in the goons because of a lost station egg? There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3817
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 04:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Whoa. All this time I was under the impression that DDs were for taking down nodes. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
793
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 05:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:
A mixed dread and dominix fleet is pretty nice....
Bonus point for bomber FC. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5312
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 05:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:A mixed dread and dominix fleet is pretty nice.... Bonus point for bomber FC. I'd feel jealous that apparently two fleets at the same time got boat's attention but we couldn't join the threesome ...
Except we had kcolor FCing us so :smugdog: There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
793
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 05:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:A mixed dread and dominix fleet is pretty nice.... Bonus point for bomber FC. I'd feel jealous that apparently two fleets at the same time got boat's attention but we couldn't join the threesome ... Except we had kcolor FCing us so :smugdog:
Boat's power over fleet is too much to be wasted on a wing of bombers when he can, all by himself, orchestrate a node crash by typing something in some chat. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7000
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 05:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Why do we even need Laz, Reagalan, Dingo, Lyris, Vee, etc. Clearly Boat can FC everything simultaneously and crash nodes just by thinking about it. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
793
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 06:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Why do we even need Laz, Reagalan, Dingo, Lyris, Vee, etc. Clearly Boat can FC everything simultaneously and crash nodes just by thinking about it.
Boat's multibox alts of course... It's hard to type in so many fleet chat at the same time if you don't box. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5312
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 06:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Why do we even need Laz, Reagalan, Dingo, Lyris, Vee, etc. Clearly Boat can FC everything simultaneously and crash nodes just by thinking about it. So secretly, actually Boat is the one leading the CFC and the mittani is just ...
yeah I don't know where I was going with that, did everyone see the GSF alliance mail There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
MestariBation
Viziam Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 06:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
WAHT WE SEE HERE IS DAMAGE CONTROL 101. Send me isk im poor |
NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Surely You're Joking
29
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So was there something done other than moving a large number of people into the system that caused it to crash? I keep hearing about some intentional act which allowed players to specifically crash the node but details are not exactly forthcoming.
Yes, there are very specific actions a fleet can take to put a large amount of stress on the server and cause a crash. However, discussing the specifics of how to "exploit" is prohibited by forum rules.
There is nothing complicated about what happened. Goons were being slaughtered. Instead of extracting from the fight using normal game mechanics they opted to attack the server and cause a crash to save their fleet. If that is the new meta CCP wants to endorse then they will do nothing about it. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
710
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 17:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
NickSuccorso wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So was there something done other than moving a large number of people into the system that caused it to crash? I keep hearing about some intentional act which allowed players to specifically crash the node but details are not exactly forthcoming. Yes, there are very specific actions a fleet can take to put a large amount of stress on the server and cause a crash. However, discussing the specifics of how to "exploit" is prohibited by forum rules. There is nothing complicated about what happened. Goons were being slaughtered. Instead of extracting from the fight using normal game mechanics they opted to attack the server and cause a crash to save their fleet. If that is the new meta CCP wants to endorse then they will do nothing about it.
No really we didn't. Or if we did the sub cap fleet ...read the vast majority of the CFC players on field heard nothing about it. We were actually trying NOT to change drone sets after the Titans hit grid because the servers were seriously chugging.
As the titans hit grid the call went out to log EEEEEEVVVVVVEEEEERRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYTHHHHHIIIIIIIIINNNNNGGGG (seriously that was on Jabber from Mittens)....and after the crash we were told to log back in ASAP, in fact I only de-synced, I never actually disconnected, I killed the client and restarted as people said that they were getting back online.
Doesn't that really sound like an organization trying to crash the node to extract safely?
Go check how many caps we lost AFTER the node failure because they logged back in.
Don't let facts shred your tinfoil though.
oh and here is right before the node hosed out of corp logs
Quote: n++[ 2013.12.16 01:38:37 ] nye 2k > US FC's and fleets really need to take over n++[ 2013.12.16 01:43:15 ] nye 2k > derp n++[ 2013.12.16 01:43:19 ] nye 2k > lots and lots of supers n++[ 2013.12.16 01:44:31 ] Onictus > sounds like we are leaving n++[ 2013.12.16 01:45:08 ] nye 2k > hehe n++[ 2013.12.16 01:45:09 ] nye 2k > yer n++[ 2013.12.16 01:47:38 ] Onictus > oh **** n++[ 2013.12.16 01:47:43 ] Onictus > they are going balls deep n++[ 2013.12.16 01:48:00 ] Onictus > HOSTILE TITANS ON THE FIELD - EVERYTHING - BRING EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEERYYYYYYYYYYTHING n++[ 2013.12.16 01:48:47 ] nye 2k > is that the ping? n++[ 2013.12.16 01:50:54 ] Onictus > yeah Goonsjabber n++[ 2013.12.16 01:51:21 ] Onictus > from Mittens no less n++[ 2013.12.16 01:51:47 ] Onictus > This is going to get silly n++[ 2013.12.16 01:52:03 ] Onictus > well more silly n++[ 2013.12.16 01:54:15 ] nye 2k > if goons can get there supers on the pos edge...they could win n++[ 2013.12.16 01:54:55 ] Onictus > so yeah on a day of rage pings that was the ragiest lol
Yup, we were trying to crash and extract. |
NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Surely You're Joking
32
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Onictus wrote:NickSuccorso wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So was there something done other than moving a large number of people into the system that caused it to crash? I keep hearing about some intentional act which allowed players to specifically crash the node but details are not exactly forthcoming. Yes, there are very specific actions a fleet can take to put a large amount of stress on the server and cause a crash. However, discussing the specifics of how to "exploit" is prohibited by forum rules. There is nothing complicated about what happened. Goons were being slaughtered. Instead of extracting from the fight using normal game mechanics they opted to attack the server and cause a crash to save their fleet. If that is the new meta CCP wants to endorse then they will do nothing about it. No really we didn't. Or if we did the sub cap fleet ...read the vast majority of the CFC players on field heard nothing about it. We were actually trying NOT to change drone sets after the Titans hit grid because the servers were seriously chugging. As the titans hit grid the call went out to log EEEEEEVVVVVVEEEEERRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYTHHHHHIIIIIIIIINNNNNGGGG (seriously that was on Jabber from Mittens)....and after the crash we were told to log back in ASAP, in fact I only de-synced, I never actually disconnected, I killed the client and restarted as people said that they were getting back online. Doesn't that really sound like an organization trying to crash the node to extract safely? Go check how many caps we lost AFTER the node failure because they logged back in. Don't let facts shred your tinfoil though. oh and here is right before the node hosed out of corp logs Quote: n++[ 2013.12.16 01:38:37 ] nye 2k > US FC's and fleets really need to take over n++[ 2013.12.16 01:43:15 ] nye 2k > derp n++[ 2013.12.16 01:43:19 ] nye 2k > lots and lots of supers n++[ 2013.12.16 01:44:31 ] Onictus > sounds like we are leaving n++[ 2013.12.16 01:45:08 ] nye 2k > hehe n++[ 2013.12.16 01:45:09 ] nye 2k > yer n++[ 2013.12.16 01:47:38 ] Onictus > oh **** n++[ 2013.12.16 01:47:43 ] Onictus > they are going balls deep n++[ 2013.12.16 01:48:00 ] Onictus > HOSTILE TITANS ON THE FIELD - EVERYTHING - BRING EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEERYYYYYYYYYYTHING n++[ 2013.12.16 01:48:47 ] nye 2k > is that the ping? n++[ 2013.12.16 01:50:54 ] Onictus > yeah Goonsjabber n++[ 2013.12.16 01:51:21 ] Onictus > from Mittens no less n++[ 2013.12.16 01:51:47 ] Onictus > This is going to get silly n++[ 2013.12.16 01:52:03 ] Onictus > well more silly n++[ 2013.12.16 01:54:15 ] nye 2k > if goons can get there supers on the pos edge...they could win n++[ 2013.12.16 01:54:55 ] Onictus > so yeah on a day of rage pings that was the ragiest lol
Yup, we were trying to crash and extract.
You seem like a rational person attempting to be honest with your post. That is appreciated.
When my friends in N3 text me and say: "Dude, hit up twitch. We are dropping the hammer." I don't jump to the conclusion that those titan's randomly appeared on grid through no fault of their own. I could be wrong but I assume that each of those pilots right clicked their capacitor and hit "jump to X".
Using the same process, when I watch senior goon leadership screaming to crash the node. I assume that they XXX(against forum rules to describe)XXX and when the node finally gives I jump to the wild conclusion that the order to crash the node and the node crash are somehow related.
I also don't think your report that Mittens planned to drop the hammer is accurate. Even his own personal propoganda arm stated that he ordered his capitals to stay logged off:
http://themittani.com/news/ostfront-breaking-news-capital-clash-dy
I think Mitten's ping was clearly geared towards helping DBRB crash the node as quickly as posssible. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA Apex.
149
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP's plan seems to be to ban people who encourage this kind of behavior as an example to others.
https://twitter.com/Dabigredboat/status/413399674280615937
Maliciously stressing the nodes isn't cool, kids.
Don't get banned. Fight it out like men, instead. |
Kate stark
992
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
how to stop 2000 pilots piling in to one server? ban them. nice. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Ramona McCandless
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1550
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
Oh well thats entirely convincing in every way
Definately super-real *** Vote MTU For CSM ***
Non omnis moriar |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7014
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
Boat couldn't possibly be trolling you, oh no. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA Apex.
149
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Boat couldn't possibly be trolling you, oh no.
Yes. Perhaps he will never login again to maintain his troll.
A self-inflicted ban to pretend that he is actually banned.
Seems intelligent. Sounds like the kind of thing a goon would do. |
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