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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Karodnotos
Caldari SOM
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Posted - 2006.10.12 19:42:00 -
[451]
hey Lab,
nice to see u here. my wallet says we had some good deals before
so i added the amount of ore per minute and special bonuses (20% per level for osprey for example)
Karos Sheet
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Hehulk
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 11:46:00 -
[452]
Hmm, time to go buy a Michi implant then, if it's working ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin |
Karodnotos
Caldari SOM
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Posted - 2006.10.13 19:20:00 -
[453]
yeah, its me again
i added a a page to calculate the drone mining yield to my spreadsheet.
so u can see when u have mining drones op at 5 and drone interfacing at 4 its better to use the harvester drones (for high end ores), if u have drone interfacing at 3 its better to use mining drones II. at lvl 2 again its better to use harvesters... travelling time included. for bug reports eve mail me pls.
take a look:
Karos Sheet
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Melein
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Posted - 2006.10.14 14:59:00 -
[454]
I believe your calculations for the Retriever's ore/minute are off. You included a factor of 1.05 in the left-hand side of the equation, assuming one mining upgrade (although ideally, you *could* put on two...) but the answer you gave doesn't account for that factor. The correct numbers should be:
889 ore/strip/3min (or 932 if you can fit two upgrades) 593 ore/min (or 621 if you can fit two upgrades) ...Small difference, but it helps the Retriever catch up to the Domi
The rest of your data looks fine though, and this is an extremely useful guide! Thanks for writing it up
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Salvis Tallan
Gallente Team Condor
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Posted - 2006.10.14 16:13:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Melein I believe your calculations for the Retriever's ore/minute are off. You included a factor of 1.05 in the left-hand side of the equation, assuming one mining upgrade (although ideally, you *could* put on two...) but the answer you gave doesn't account for that factor. The correct numbers should be:
889 ore/strip/3min (or 932 if you can fit two upgrades) 593 ore/min (or 621 if you can fit two upgrades) ...Small difference, but it helps the Retriever catch up to the Domi
The rest of your data looks fine though, and this is an extremely useful guide! Thanks for writing it up
2 tech 1 strip miners on a retriever with 4 mining, 4 astro, 3 mining barge and 1 upgrade, will do: 593 ore/min and 1780/3mins
If you want to calculate thses numbers for any ship with any skills, try out EVEMEEP (link in my sig). I cannot thank Halada enough for this post that I used making it. ------ Designer of EVEMEEP - Multiuse Economic Efficiency Planner |
Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.14 21:47:00 -
[456]
Would you mind explaining how the Hulk can generate 93 mil/hour mining crokite/bistot, like you stated in your guide please?
I tried the Hulk with 3 strips t2, t2 crystals, one mining upgrade - and I wasnt making even 80mil/hour!
Please explain how exactly you came to your conclusions.
PS: With that setup, the strips pulled 88 crokite units each cycle for each strip, and the T2 drones pulled 2 units each drone (5 drones).
I would love to see what am I doing wrong... ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved! |
Salvis Tallan
Gallente Team Condor
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Posted - 2006.10.14 23:24:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Audrea Would you mind explaining how the Hulk can generate 93 mil/hour mining crokite/bistot, like you stated in your guide please?
I tried the Hulk with 3 strips t2, t2 crystals, one mining upgrade - and I wasnt making even 80mil/hour!
Please explain how exactly you came to your conclusions.
PS: With that setup, the strips pulled 88 crokite units each cycle for each strip, and the T2 drones pulled 2 units each drone (5 drones).
I would love to see what am I doing wrong...
-1 tech2 Strip w/ t2 crystal = 720*1.75=1260 -1260*3 strip miners = 3780 base total mining amount -after adjustments from skills (5mining, 5 astro, 5 exhumer, 2 upgrades), 8592 units per cycle -if Pyerite sells for 4isk, Zydrine for 3500 isk, and Megacyte 4400isk(EVEMEEP defaults) -Normal Bisot will bring in 89million, and Monoclinic Bisot will bring in 93million an hour
------ Designer of EVEMEEP - Multiuse Economic Efficiency Planner |
Forge Pricechecker
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:26:00 -
[458]
I'd bet what you are doing wrong is letting your lasers run full cycles on rocks that have less than a full cycle's worth of minerals. That results in lost effeciancy, though many miners do it because it is much less labor intensive.
If you want to hit your theoretical yeild, turn your lasers off and start them on a new rock when the previous one has less than a full cycle's worth, and finish it off with drones. Or take the hit to profits, and do it the easy way. :)
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.15 17:50:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Forge Pricechecker I'd bet what you are doing wrong is letting your lasers run full cycles on rocks that have less than a full cycle's worth of minerals. That results in lost effeciancy, though many miners do it because it is much less labor intensive.
If you want to hit your theoretical yeild, turn your lasers off and start them on a new rock when the previous one has less than a full cycle's worth, and finish it off with drones. Or take the hit to profits, and do it the easy way. :)
Well that still doesnt account for discrepency of about 30-40mil lol.. its not even few cycles :P ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved! |
Karodnotos
Caldari SOM
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Posted - 2006.10.15 18:25:00 -
[460]
Edited by: Karodnotos on 15/10/2006 18:27:57
Originally by: Audrea Would you mind explaining how the Hulk can generate 93 mil/hour mining crokite/bistot, like you stated in your guide please?
I tried the Hulk with 3 strips t2, t2 crystals, one mining upgrade - and I wasnt making even 80mil/hour!
Please explain how exactly you came to your conclusions.
PS: With that setup, the strips pulled 88 crokite units each cycle for each strip, and the T2 drones pulled 2 units each drone (5 drones).
I would love to see what am I doing wrong...
is your exhumer skill up to 5? do u have both implants, the highwall hx-2 and the michi imp?
T2 drones should pull 3 crokite/bistot per cycle, if u have drone interfacing up to 4 and mining drone operation at 5.
if thats what u use, i have no clue. didnt test the bonus of T2 crystals myself though.
edit: he used 2 mining upgrades, but still a huge difference
hope i could help
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Hehulk
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.15 21:30:00 -
[461]
Then there's also the gang links to take into account, those boost yeld something rotten. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin |
Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.16 13:33:00 -
[462]
Edited by: Audrea on 16/10/2006 13:34:13
Originally by: Karodnotos Edited by: Karodnotos on 15/10/2006 18:27:57
Originally by: Audrea Would you mind explaining how the Hulk can generate 93 mil/hour mining crokite/bistot, like you stated in your guide please?
I tried the Hulk with 3 strips t2, t2 crystals, one mining upgrade - and I wasnt making even 80mil/hour!
Please explain how exactly you came to your conclusions.
PS: With that setup, the strips pulled 88 crokite units each cycle for each strip, and the T2 drones pulled 2 units each drone (5 drones).
I would love to see what am I doing wrong...
is your exhumer skill up to 5? do u have both implants, the highwall hx-2 and the michi imp?
T2 drones should pull 3 crokite/bistot per cycle, if u have drone interfacing up to 4 and mining drone operation at 5.
if thats what u use, i have no clue. didnt test the bonus of T2 crystals myself though.
edit: he used 2 mining upgrades, but still a huge difference
hope i could help
No, I dont have the implants yet, exhumer isnt on lvl5 yet, and I didnt have command ship to boost the yield further. I do have mining drone op lvl5 of course.
This accounts maybe for 13+15=about 25% of the diffrence, but his number is almost twice the size.. 55*1.25=68mil, lets round it to 69. how the hell he got to 93?!
EDIT: 13 is composed of 2x5% implants, 3% from exhumers lvl5, 15% is from command ship bonus I guess. ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved! |
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:41:00 -
[463]
This thread has been reported as having inaccurate numbers regarding hulk mining output. And any positive changes will be welcomed
Thread restored. ___
Email Us (Report a bad post) | Forum Rules - Read 'em! | Website |
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coldplasma
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:55:00 -
[464]
locked? ____________________________
See you in 0.0 kids... |
Futuri
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:10:00 -
[465]
Yay!
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Fliewatuet
Angelus dos Business
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:15:00 -
[466]
unbeliefable, its back! After all those ye^B^Bweeks!
Which numbers exactly are said to be incorrect? There are quite a lot just about the Hulk, you know... :) -- |
Deacon Hasp
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.30 20:07:00 -
[467]
welcome back ol' buddy :)
/emote hugs thread
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:23:00 -
[468]
Ok , hi everyone.
The thread is back, it's a happy day. Still, some of the parts need updating at the moment. I'd say 90% is still accurate, as it stands, the error count is minor, some little misteps right and left...
The guide will probably need major rebalancing when Kali hits, hopefully by then I'll have the time to give it a reface !
I know it's not perfect, but if you objectively point to my mistakes, I'll correct them as soon as possible !
I still have plans for a website, I have other priorities at the moment though (medschool obliges).
Happy mining!
My mining guide |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:35:00 -
[469]
Edited by: Halada on 30/10/2006 22:40:40 The Hulk's figure of 93mil/hour is NOT flawed...
At current empire price, Bistot is worth around 10500 ISK per unit... why? Bistot gives... Zydrine ==> 331 units @ 4100 ISK/unit at current empire rate Megacyte ==> 165 units @ 4600 ISK/unit at current empire rate Pyerite ==> 165 units @ 4.2 ISK/unit at current empire rate
The CURRENT BEST yield a Hulk pilot can have is this:
360 (strip2 base yield) x 1.25 (mining V) x 1.25 (astrogeology V) x 1.15 (Mining Barge V) x 1.15 (Exhumer V) x 1.1025 (Two mining upgrades) x 1.1 (Mining Foreman V) x 1.05 (HX Wall Mining Implant Slot 10) x 1.05 (Michi Excavation Mining Implant Slot 7 - FIXED) x 1.75 (T2 crystals) x 1.225 (Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization - MAXED out) =
2132.270146 ore per cycle ==>133 Bistot units per cycle
133 x 3 (3 strips) x 20 (20 cycles per hour) = 7980 Bistot units per hour
7980 x 10 500 ISK = 83 790 000 ISK
If you factor the drone into this, harvestor drones can bring in an extra 1200 bistot per hour if used correctly (practically, 1000 seems better).
So all-in-all it is currently possible to achieve 94 290 000 ISK / hour in a Hulk ...
Any questions so far?
As for Drone Interfacing 5 + Drone Coordination Link, it will only help harvestor drones to bring 1 extra bistot unit per cycle, t2 mining drones will not be affected. It really isn't worth it !
My mining guide |
Taaketa Frist
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:38:00 -
[470]
no actual math update. But activating the link when you start a cycle without the link active will give you a boast to your inital yield. This then returns to normal after a completed cycle.
But if you really wanted to (or could be bothered to do it) you could complete a cycle, terminate it. Terminate the link, restart the cycle and activate the link again maintaining the extra yield from the lasers. I personally couldn't see why you would bother doing this, but I am now in habit of making sure my gang's lasers are on first before I activate the link giving them an intial bonus to yield. In my hulk with strip 1s instead of getting 4100m3 or so of Ark I will get 5000m3 of ark for that first cycle.
As far as I can tell the reason why this happens is because the cycle time when its first taken account is 180 with your yield spread over that span. With the cycle time decrease (which doesn't come into effect until the cycle completes and then works as its ment to)
The same is true for the reverse though. If you deactivate the link during a cycle you will have a similar proportional loss in minerals gained from that cycle. --------------
Dang nabit |
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Snake Dealer
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Posted - 2006.10.30 23:33:00 -
[471]
Edited by: Snake Dealer on 30/10/2006 23:33:09
Originally by: Halada
The CURRENT BEST yield a Hulk pilot can have is this:
360 (strip2 base yield) x 1.25 (mining V) x 1.25 (astrogeology V) x 1.15 (Mining Barge V) x 1.15 (Exhumer V) x 1.1025 (Two mining upgrades) x 1.1 (Mining Foreman V) x 1.05 (HX Wall Mining Implant Slot 10) x 1.05 (Michi Excavation Mining Implant Slot 7 - FIXED) x 1.75 (T2 crystals) x 1.225 (Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization - MAXED out) =
2132.270146 ore per cycle ==>133 Bistot units per cycle
Actually, the maxed Laser Optimization link effect results in 29.03% bonus to the yield, making it 2245.97 ore per 3 mins ("per cycle") eg. 140 bistot per 3 mins.
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.10.31 01:47:00 -
[472]
Edited by: Tolomea on 31/10/2006 01:52:29
Originally by: Halada As for Drone Interfacing 5 + Drone Coordination Link, it will only help harvestor drones to bring 1 extra bistot unit per cycle, t2 mining drones will not be affected. It really isn't worth it !
Not all of us mine bostot, it would be nice if you included the impact on mining one of the nicer high sec ores like omber for example. I'm not in a position to work it out myself right now but I imagine that they would be a lot more helpful in that situation.
Also it would be nice if you could incorporate the info from this thread however I should caution that none of it has been confirmed in game so you might want to give the numbers a look over first.
And I agree with snake dealer that your mining link figures are off, as I figure it because the bonus is a reduction in time, yield over time increases by 1/(1-0.225)=0.29 so 29% not 22.5%
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.10.31 02:53:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Tolomea on 31/10/2006 02:55:41
Originally by: Taaketa Frist
As far as I can tell the reason why this happens is because the cycle time when its first taken account is 180 with your yield spread over that span. With the cycle time decrease (which doesn't come into effect until the cycle completes and then works as its ment to)
Ok you seem to have chopped off the end of the sentence there, but from the direction you were going I would infer that what is happening is that for whatever reason EVEs internal figures for mining lasers are yield per second and seconds per cycle. A link that decreases the cycle time would then also increase yield per second to keep yield per cycle constant.
Now what you are doing is starting the cycle, then firing up the link, so eve runs the laser for the original cycle time, but the yield per second kicks up as soon as the link comes on line. This results in you getting a bigger haul off the first cycle. However the first cycle also takes longer and so results in exactly the same yield over time because you haven't managed to increase the internal yield per second value beyond it's normal linked value. So gaming the link as you suggest wouldn't work.
That seems to be a logical explanation of what you describe, however there is always the chance that I am totally wrong.
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Taaketa Frist
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:44:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Tolomea Edited by: Tolomea on 31/10/2006 02:55:41
Originally by: Taaketa Frist
As far as I can tell the reason why this happens is because the cycle time when its first taken account is 180 with your yield spread over that span. With the cycle time decrease (which doesn't come into effect until the cycle completes and then works as its ment to)
Ok you seem to have chopped off the end of the sentence there, but from the direction you were going I would infer that what is happening is that for whatever reason EVEs internal figures for mining lasers are yield per second and seconds per cycle. A link that decreases the cycle time would then also increase yield per second to keep yield per cycle constant.
Now what you are doing is starting the cycle, then firing up the link, so eve runs the laser for the original cycle time, but the yield per second kicks up as soon as the link comes on line. This results in you getting a bigger haul off the first cycle. However the first cycle also takes longer and so results in exactly the same yield over time because you haven't managed to increase the internal yield per second value beyond it's normal linked value. So gaming the link as you suggest wouldn't work.
That seems to be a logical explanation of what you describe, however there is always the chance that I am totally wrong.
I was doing it last night. I was very tired.
What I mean is the inital yield is higher. The cycle time is normal but the issue is that you DO get a bonus to yield since without the link active you should get the normal yield of 4060m3 of trit at 180 seconds.
When the link is activated the cycle time is shown as 139.5 seconds but it runs for 180 I think (need to check) and then you recieve the extra minerals totalling to 5239m3 which is a signifcant increase in yield from a normal cycle. --------------
Dang nabit |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:07:00 -
[475]
Ok, my bad, you're right about the link... so it shows my Hulk figure isn't wrong, and it'll be better when the mindlink is fixed and we will get the 15% self bonus from it ... AND an extra 5% from mining foreman V !
I'm sorry about that, I dont have any math anymore since I'm in medschool, getting rusty ;)
As for the drone link, you are right, not all fo you mine high-ends, I will post math later.
My mining guide |
Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.10.31 22:19:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Taaketa Frist
What I mean is the inital yield is higher. The cycle time is normal but the issue is that you DO get a bonus to yield since without the link active you should get the normal yield of 4060m3 of trit at 180 seconds.
When the link is activated the cycle time is shown as 139.5 seconds but it runs for 180 I think (need to check) and then you recieve the extra minerals totalling to 5239m3 which is a signifcant increase in yield from a normal cycle.
Ok, normal cycle time is 180 secs, normal yield per second is 22.56ish, so normal yield per cycle is 4060. Now when you activate the link the cycle time drops to 139.5, so the yield per sec needs to increase to 29.1 to maintain a yield per cycle of 4060.
What your seeing is that if you turn the link on after the cycle starts then then the first cycle still runs for 180 seconds but the yield per second jumps up to 29.1 straight away, so that first cycle produces 5238 instead of 4060.
However you are still only getting 29.1 a second, so you haven't actually gained anything beyond the normal boost from turning the link on.
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izbator
Caldari Mortis Angelus Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.02 08:41:00 -
[477]
Gratz m8 you done good job, thx ^^
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aimez
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:23:00 -
[478]
A Hulk will mine 1732.74 ore/minute, which is 108 Bistot per minute, or 6480 per hour 108 : 200 * 341 = 184.14 zydrine 108 : 200 * 170 = 91.8 megacyte
avarange price off zydrine is according to the jita market 3800 avarange price off morphite is according to the jita market 4300 184,14 * 3800 + 91,8 * 4300 = 1.094.472 isk/minute
A skiff will mine 996.51 ore/minute, or 24 Mercoxite per minute, or 1440 per hour 24 / 250 * 530 = 50,88 Mophite
avarange price off morphite is according to the jita market 11.000 û 12.000 11.000*50,88 = 559.680 û 12000*60,88 = 610.560 isk/minute
Conclusion: it is more profitable to mine bistot with a hulk with maxed skills then mining mercoxite in a skiff with maxed skills
maybe interesting to add this
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Himbeerprinzessin
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Posted - 2006.11.03 12:48:00 -
[479]
Edited by: Himbeerprinzessin on 03/11/2006 12:48:20 thanks for the guide !
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Halada
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.03 12:49:00 -
[480]
Originally by: aimez A Hulk will mine 1732.74 ore/minute, which is 108 Bistot per minute, or 6480 per hour 108 : 200 * 341 = 184.14 zydrine 108 : 200 * 170 = 91.8 megacyte
avarange price off zydrine is according to the jita market 3800 avarange price off morphite is according to the jita market 4300 184,14 * 3800 + 91,8 * 4300 = 1.094.472 isk/minute
A skiff will mine 996.51 ore/minute, or 24 Mercoxite per minute, or 1440 per hour 24 / 250 * 530 = 50,88 Mophite
avarange price off morphite is according to the jita market 11.000 û 12.000 11.000*50,88 = 559.680 û 12000*60,88 = 610.560 isk/minute
Conclusion: it is more profitable to mine bistot with a hulk with maxed skills then mining mercoxite in a skiff with maxed skills
maybe interesting to add this
My skiff mines 2723.95 ore per cycle, and the Hulk 1435.27 ore/cycle without implants, maxed exhumer skill and t2 crystals...
Your figures are off :(
My mining guide |
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