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Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
158
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Cyclone has 6.875 (according to the post above) effective BONUSED launchers.
The Drake has 9 effective bonused launchers.
That means that the Cyclone does 76% of the damage of a bonused Drake. It also means that the Drake, UNBONUSED, still does 87% of the damage of a BONUSED Cyclone.
Seems pretty fair to me.
In addition, for those of you attempting to compare turrets and missiles, food for thought:
When was the last time you MISSED with missiles? Target in range, and not moving fast enough to outrun your missiles.
After the last patch, when they got rid of the "X amount of hull damage = destroyed target" coding, missile-boat pilots were complaining that it altered their shot count, that some targets took an extra salvo to kill.
Think about that for a moment; missile damage is so consistent that pilots are able to determine precisely how many shots it takes to kill a target, and develop a shot pattern/pace for optimal ammo usage.
Drone pilots can't do that. Turret pilots can't do that. Pilots with bonuses to both can't do that. Turret and drone damage are nowhere near as consistent as missile damage.
PLUS, you get to select optimal damage type, although, having flown a Drake in Level 3 missions, you don't need to. It's damage bonus is so big, it simply clobbers every rat it comes across. PVP is a different story, I understand, but this is a way to make a consistent comparison.
So, trying to complain about turrets being buffed (which, in all honesty, they desperately needed) in a thread about (some) Caldari hulls being bonused for a single damage type is, at best, completely misunderstanding turret, and, to a lesser extent, drone, dynamics. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
119
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Dav Varan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Dav Varan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What buff will amarr and gallente gunboats, and T2 projectile ammo, receive to go along with this? They're all limited in damage types too... Amaar and gallente have had there buffs , massive range and damage boosts for amarr a couple of years back , massive damage boosts and tracking for gallente not long ago. Compared to those boosts this request is modest. and also needed. Kin only bonuses are amongst the weekest given out to ship hulls. If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost. This is calculated from max damage to all target types at lvl 5 as against lvl 0 For spending time training hulls cal pilots get very little back in terms of increased dps. A maxed trained cal pilot in a hull getting a 5% per level kin bonus does 6.5% more dps when using optimal ammo ( ammo switching to most damaging type in each case ) than a level 1 pilot This compared to 25% for straight damage bonuses , 37.5% for rof and 50% for most drones Lasers and blasters get muchg greater raw dps to compensate for lack of damage type switching. Ok... then you wil expende the same level of damage bonuses for the minmatra missile ships? Because they susually have far inferior bonuses to keep the all damage types available. Just comapre missile damage between drake and cyclone... The clone is not a pure missile boat so here is the full damage comparison cyclone 6.875 effective launchers 2 effective turrets 2 effective drones for a total 10.875 effective damage dealers drake has 7.5 effective launchers 1 effective drones for a total of 8.5 effective damage dealers. clone is faster and has a better solo tank bonus drake has better slot layout and better group tank. looks like the drake could do with a proper missile bonus lets go with 10 damage to all that would then be 9 effective launcher + 1 effective drone for a total of 10 total effective damage dealers Still behind the clone but close enough. You are mixing guns and drones. That completely negates your argument about beign able to deliver pure damage type. Not to forget range and the fact aht the turrets and droens will not bennefit from the damage mods that will be for missiles. Again. MISSILE DAMAGE. Compare both. Stop trying to look smart because you are NOT! Split weapons cannot be compared like you try. There is a reason why everyone hates them
You choose the ships. I'm sorry if the results were not what you were expecting.
Clone has more base damage potential than a drake even if the drake had 10% bonues to all missile types.
Thats fairly damning evidence in favour of the post imo.
I'd really love cal ship to get decent bonuses I might start flying them again until then I'll stick with the insane amounts of applied damage I seem to get from Gal/Mini |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
119
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Meyr wrote:The Cyclone has 6.875 (according to the post above) effective BONUSED launchers.
The Drake has 9 effective bonused launchers.
That means that the Cyclone does 76% of the damage of a bonused Drake. It also means that the Drake, UNBONUSED, still does 87% of the damage of a BONUSED Cyclone.
Seems pretty fair to me.
Drake does not have 9 effective launchers. That was a hypertheitcial what if number base on a 10% damage bonus.
ALso what happened to drone and gun damage in that analysis ?
Are you really that desperate to make a point you have to pretend something does not exist ?
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Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: You need to bring up the broken stupid RLML that get ultra bennefit form the base damage bonus on the scythe being large. THat is an anomaly due to the broken weapon system that should NEVEr be taken seriously in a balance discussion. The fault of this is a bad designed mechanic on the launcher.
Rapid light missile launchers were perfectly fine before the nerf and now they are broken. Heavy missiles, also broken, leaving Caldari pilots with only one weapon system and even that one is barely working. You can't simply compare what you want, exclude things you don't want and pretend to discuss about balance seriously. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
158
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dav - some basic math...
Using kinetic missiles...
6 x 1.5 = 9
10% bonus per level to kinetic missile damage = 50% damage bonus, or 150% of unbonused damage. 150% = 1 x 1.5
Have I explained the basics of math to you clearly enough? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
978
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
It's funnyGǪ the players that are protesting the most are the ones enjoying current dominance with their preferred weapon system (lasers, hybrids, projectiles, drones, etc.) over missiles - and heaven forbid someone should actually bring the various hulls and missiles on par. Whatever would they doGǪ
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
120
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:34:00 -
[67] - Quote
Meyr wrote:Dav - some basic math...
Using kinetic missiles...
6 x 1.5 = 9
10% bonus per level to kinetic missile damage = 50% damage bonus, or 150% of unbonused damage. 150% = 1 x 1.5
Have I explained the basics of math to you clearly enough?
so if the bonus of the drake was 10% per level to missile damage the maths would be
6 x 1.5 = 9
so 9 effective launchers if the bonus was on all damage types.
Absolutelly no change in damage output based on your argument. Therefore you have no arguments against it !.
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Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
120
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
Meyr wrote:The Cyclone has 6.875 (according to the post above) effective BONUSED launchers.
The Drake has 9 effective bonused launchers.
That means that the Cyclone does 76% of the damage of a bonused Drake. It also means that the Drake, UNBONUSED, still does 87% of the damage of a BONUSED Cyclone.
Seems pretty fair to me.
In addition, for those of you attempting to compare turrets and missiles, food for thought:
When was the last time you MISSED with missiles? Target in range, and not moving fast enough to outrun your missiles.
After the last patch, when they got rid of the "X amount of hull damage = destroyed target" coding, missile-boat pilots were complaining that it altered their shot count, that some targets took an extra salvo to kill.
Think about that for a moment; missile damage is so consistent that pilots are able to determine precisely how many shots it takes to kill a target, and develop a shot pattern/pace for optimal ammo usage.
Drone pilots can't do that. Turret pilots can't do that. Pilots with bonuses to both can't do that. Turret and drone damage are nowhere near as consistent as missile damage.
PLUS, you get to select optimal damage type, although, having flown a Drake in Level 3 missions, you don't need to. It's damage bonus is so big, it simply clobbers every rat it comes across. PVP is a different story, I understand, but this is a way to make a consistent comparison.
So, trying to complain about turrets being buffed (which, in all honesty, they desperately needed) in a thread about (some) Caldari hulls being bonused for a single damage type is, at best, completely misunderstanding turret, and, to a lesser extent, drone, dynamics.
No one tried to do a full comparision of guns v missiles We just added up effective damage dealers on the high slots.
The resaon to quote effective damage dealers is because a full analysis of target profiles / attack postures / cap / speed / resists / trasnversal of all possible targets at all possible ranges is a task thats immposible and is what would be required to get to a dps number.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
815
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:12:00 -
[69] - Quote
caldari get more dps focussed into a single damage type - other races get less dps, but more versatility.
I thought that was the point. I wanted caldari RoF bonuses too, but cant really complain when u get 10% damage bonuses.
as for dav's math where u divide the bonus by 4 because its only one damage type, i have never seen that before. u must be arthurs alt, because he is the only other person ive seen do math that bad.
should all laser and hybrid ships have their bonuses to effective turrets halved because they can only do two damage types? and theres only really 3 faction ammos u want to use with projectiles, so do they need their effective turrets reduced to 3/4?
i simply cannot take u seriously with this line of thinking, no one should take u seriously. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
120
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:caldari get more dps focussed into a single damage type - other races get less dps, but more versatility.
I thought that was the point. I wanted caldari RoF bonuses too, but cant really complain when u get 10% damage bonuses.
as for dav's math where u divide the bonus by 4 because its only one damage type, i have never seen that before. u must be arthurs alt, because he is the only other person ive seen do math that bad.
should all laser and hybrid ships have their bonuses to effective turrets halved because they can only do two damage types? and theres only really 3 faction ammos u want to use with projectiles, so do they need their effective turrets reduced to 3/4?
i simply cannot take u seriously with this line of thinking, no one should take u seriously.
All ammo's you can fire from lasers/hybrids/proj and drones are bonused.
People who take a simplistic approach to the maths often miss the point that missile users switch ammo. How do you campare bonuses that boost eveything in all situatiosn to bonuses that only boost in certain situations ?
The simple approach is to take an average. A more accurate approch means considering all target types and working out.
best damage after bonus / best damage before bonus
Example.
working out the increase in damage that a 10% kin bonus grants.
Shooting a fitted ship with
40% em 50% therm 55% kin 60% exp
at lvl 0 firing em is preferable you get 60% of base damage of launchers.
at lvl 5 firing kin is preferable you get 67.5% of base damage of launchers.
Thats a 12.5% increase in damage done for 5 levels of training.
In this example the 10%kin bonus yielded equivelnt increase in damage as a 2.5% damage bonus.
This is not hard to understand.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
815
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 16:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
and if we swap ur example around to an armour tanking ship, ur 50% boost to kinetic damage is looking pretty good. Such is the nature of focussing into one damage type. good thing it does the extra dps over comparable ships to compensate.
so missiles are better because they have the options lasers and hybrids don't? in fact missiles have more options than projectiles as using anything than the high damage 50% optimal ammo will do u more harm than good. therefore all turret ships should have their effective turrets discounted?
because the turrets never have option to swap damage type in the first place, does not mean we should ignore that they do limited damage types. otherwise ur just being disingenuous, thus why it is so hard to take u seriously.
between arthurs incessent whining over ALL THINGS MISSILE, and complete ignorance over the fact that some missiles do work well (perhaps because he uses nothing but heavies), and this ridiculous way of figuring how many effective weapons a ship is supposed to have, u discredit any arguments for buffing any missiles and any genuine gripes over how some missiles work.
take into ur consideration of how many 'effective drones' a cyclone has over a drake, have u completely forgotten that a medium drone only has 50% more dps than a small drone? and applies this dps with less tracking? There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
737
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 16:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kinetic bonuses should certainly go away.
Also this...
Arthur Aihaken wrote: GÇó Phoenix receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage
What's a phoenix ? I don't know any useful ship that uses this name. I didn't check in the shuttle category though. G££ <= Me |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
120
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:and if we swap ur example around to an armour tanking ship, ur 50% boost to kinetic damage is looking pretty good. Such is the nature of focussing into one damage type. good thing it does the extra dps over comparable ships to compensate.
so missiles are better because they have the options lasers and hybrids don't? in fact missiles have more options than projectiles as using anything than the high damage 50% optimal ammo will do u more harm than good. therefore all turret ships should have their effective turrets discounted?
because the turrets never have option to swap damage type in the first place, does not mean we should ignore that they do limited damage types. otherwise ur just being disingenuous, thus why it is so hard to take u seriously.
between arthurs incessent whining over ALL THINGS MISSILE, and complete ignorance over the fact that some missiles do work well (perhaps because he uses nothing but heavies), and this ridiculous way of figuring how many effective weapons a ship is supposed to have, u discredit any arguments for buffing any missiles and any genuine gripes over how some missiles work.
take into ur consideration of how many 'effective drones' a cyclone has over a drake, have u completely forgotten that a medium drone only has 50% more dps than a small drone? and applies this dps with less tracking?
Sometimes its good somwtime its bad. Work out the average , if you want to understand the effectiveness in overall terms. Thats what the numebrs are for.
Lasers and hybrids are boosted in raw dps compared to Projectile to compensate for there lack of damage switching. That the disingenuous argument here pretending there somehow at a disadvantage in base design. All system have there pro's and con's
A con of a system should never be it can't be trained up effectivelly - eve is an RPG.
What value should be put on the training of each race compared to each other ?
I always start from the point that all races training should be of equal value to the player.
If Amarr are getting 25-37% bonuses to damage output for hull training then the same should be true for Gal/Mini/Cal
Kin bonuses don't deliver value. The overall effectiveness increase is too small compared to other races. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
206
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: take into ur consideration of how many 'effective drones' a cyclone has over a drake, have u completely forgotten that a medium drone only has 50% more dps than a small drone? and applies this dps with less tracking?
So your medium drones are having difficulties with tracking a slow and fat battlecruiser? |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
985
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Altrue wrote:What's a phoenix ? I don't know any useful ship that uses this name. I didn't check in the shuttle category though. Dreadnought. Google "Eve worst dreadnought" for an eye opener... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
815
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:and if we swap ur example around to an armour tanking ship, ur 50% boost to kinetic damage is looking pretty good. Such is the nature of focussing into one damage type. good thing it does the extra dps over comparable ships to compensate.
so missiles are better because they have the options lasers and hybrids don't? in fact missiles have more options than projectiles as using anything than the high damage 50% optimal ammo will do u more harm than good. therefore all turret ships should have their effective turrets discounted?
because the turrets never have option to swap damage type in the first place, does not mean we should ignore that they do limited damage types. otherwise ur just being disingenuous, thus why it is so hard to take u seriously.
between arthurs incessent whining over ALL THINGS MISSILE, and complete ignorance over the fact that some missiles do work well (perhaps because he uses nothing but heavies), and this ridiculous way of figuring how many effective weapons a ship is supposed to have, u discredit any arguments for buffing any missiles and any genuine gripes over how some missiles work.
take into ur consideration of how many 'effective drones' a cyclone has over a drake, have u completely forgotten that a medium drone only has 50% more dps than a small drone? and applies this dps with less tracking? Sometimes its good somwtime its bad. Work out the average , if you want to understand the effectiveness in overall terms. Thats what the numebrs are for. Lasers and hybrids are boosted in raw dps and application compared to Projectiles to compensate for there lack of damage switching. That the disingenuous argument here pretending there somehow at a disadvantage in base design. All system have there pro's and con's A con of a system should never be it can't be trained up effectivelly - eve is an RPG. What value should be put on the training of each race compared to each other ? I always start from the point that all races training should be of equal value to the player. If Amarr are getting 25-37% bonuses to damage output for hull training then the same should be true for Gal/Mini/Cal Kin bonuses don't deliver value. The overall effectiveness increase is too small compared to other races.
the truth is, u were trying to say that the kinetic only bonus is only 25% effective because its only one of four damage types, and at the same time u were trying to say that turret bonuses were 100% effective, despite also being limited in damage types.
u are either very dimb, or are deliberately being inconsistent with a biased intent of making the caldari missile bonus look worse than it really is so it gets a buff. And the problem with this so blatent bias, is anyone who has a genuine argument for buffing missiles will be associated with u, and by being associated with u, will look dimb/disingenuous and like a whiner. u'd sooner get ur missile buff by shutting up and letting ppl with genuine gripes do the talking.
and if u want to talk about the overall effectiveness of a weapon system and the ships attached to it, then u must truly look at the weapons overall, including the average (cause u love averages) range at which fights are conducted at; what average speeds and transversal each ship has; average cap consumption for weapons; average reload times; optimal vs falloff; and so on and so on.
so how do u plan to discount the effective turrets for lasers because of their large cap consumption and their terrible damage against armour?
and shouldnt AC's be discounted because they always fight in fall off and almost inherently have a lower dps ontop of their already low dps.
Quote:So your medium drones are having difficulties with tracking a slow and fat battlecruiser? what are u even blabbering about? u obviously missed the post where dav tried to say the drake had one effective set of drones and the cyclone had two effective sets of drones and therefore has twice as much drone damage...
again this isnt even the full story as 5 drones dont exactly equate to a single effective weapon, but he tried make that comparison anyways. This thread is so full of fail its not easy to keep up. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Altrue wrote:What's a phoenix ? I don't know any useful ship that uses this name. I didn't check in the shuttle category though. Dreadnought. Google "Eve worst dreadnought" for an eye opener... ^^^ This guy totally missed it... |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
985
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
Clansworth wrote:^^^ This guy totally missed it... I blame the cold and flu medicationGǪ I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2042
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 18:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It's funnyGǪ the players that are protesting the most are the ones enjoying current dominance with their preferred weapon system (lasers, hybrids, projectiles, drones, etc.) over missiles - and heaven forbid someone should actually bring the various hulls and missiles on par. Whatever would they doGǪ
Hint: A lot of us trained caldari and missile skills back when HML drakes/tengus were top dog, so...yeah. I really wouldn't have to do anything except buy another tea tray. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
228
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 18:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Wow missile users are so bloody dumb/biased. The Caldari Kinetic Damage bonus is a huge balancing factor. WIthout it you would be able to be the only race that can choose your T2 Ammo Damage type. And you already can on some ships. So stop moaning its pathetic.
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Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
206
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: what are u even blabbering about? u obviously missed the post where dav tried to say the drake had one effective set of drones and the cyclone had two effective sets of drones and therefore has twice as much drone damage...
again this isnt even the full story as 5 drones dont exactly equate to a single effective weapon, but he tried make that comparison anyways. This thread is so full of fail its not easy to keep up.
So basically you're saying that set of spare drones is useless or that 150dps from unbonused medium drones is nothing at all because drones can be destroyed, right? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
816
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Posted - 2013.12.20 19:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: what are u even blabbering about? u obviously missed the post where dav tried to say the drake had one effective set of drones and the cyclone had two effective sets of drones and therefore has twice as much drone damage...
again this isnt even the full story as 5 drones dont exactly equate to a single effective weapon, but he tried make that comparison anyways. This thread is so full of fail its not easy to keep up.
So basically you're saying that set of spare drones is useless or that 150dps from unbonused medium drones is nothing at all because drones can be destroyed, right?
not at all. i merely stated that if the drake's 25mb is to be taken as one effective weapon (as dav would have u believe) then the cyclones 50mb drone bay does not infact equate to two effective weapons (as he stated). it is 1.5 at best.
Really its neither 2 or 1.5, as comparing weapons and drones in this way is far too simplistic. if even for the simple fact that 5 small hobs gets u 100dps. far more than any single medium turret before hull bonuses are applied.
indeed, if we are to go into the overall'ness of everything like dav seems to want, then drones need to be discounted because to do the best damage they can they have to use only a single damage type, or reduce their dps somewhat for extra tracking. they also can be destroyed as u say, take time to travel to their targets etc etc. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1783
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Posted - 2013.12.20 19:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
Moving up the T1 line: Kestrel - Omni-damage missile bonus Condor - Kinetic bonus Corax - Kinetic bonus (7 light missile omni alpha damage is way OP) Caracal - Omni-damage (rate of fire) Drake - Kinetic bonus Raven - Omni damage bonus (rate of fire)
So, 3/7 T1 line has an omni-damage bonus to missiles.
Hookbill - Kinetic Bonus, half others Osprey Navy Issue - Kinetic Bonus, half others Caracal Navy Issue - Omni damage bonus Drake Navy Issue - Omni damage bonus Raven Navy Issue - Omni damage application bonus
Three omni, two with kinetic preferred
Hawk - Mostly kinetic + ROF bonus(omni) (Hawk is OP anyways, should never get full omni-damage bonus) Cerberus - Same as Hawk
OK, too tired to continue looking them up... Bottom line: Caldari already have omni damage bonus on half their missile boat lineup. Working as intended. |
Turk MacRumien
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.12.20 19:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
I'd agree that the kin only bonus is a little less useful (in general of course, with the right resist hole it can be great) than the flat damage bonuses that the other races get.
A change like this however should not be a straight conversion, CCP would have to decrease the bonus a little to compensate for the increased usability i.e. 7.5% bonus -> 5% bonus |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
259
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 19:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
I think modelling all Caldari ships with missile damage bonuses after the Hookbill is the way to go. Keep the high kinetic bonuses while adding a bonus to the other damage types equal to half the kinetic bonus. That's a perfect fix imo. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
816
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 20:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
would that mean the ships do dps on par with other races with all damage types AND have the extra option of doing more dps with kinetic?
cause that would not be balanced. it would have to be something inbetween, where perhaps they do a little less damage with other types but a little extra with kin. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
260
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 20:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:would that mean the ships do dps on par with other races with all damage types AND have the extra option of doing more dps with kinetic?
cause that would not be balanced. it would have to be something inbetween, where perhaps they do a little less damage with other types but a little extra with kin.
Considering the fact that their hulls are slower, have larger sigs, and pathetic drone capabilities yes it would be balanced. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
816
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Posted - 2013.12.20 21:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Considering the fact that their hulls are slower, have larger sigs, and pathetic drone capabilities yes it would be balanced.
so now its not just the weapon system that makes caldari crap, its their slow speed, large sig and smaller drone bays as well all of a sudden?
vs minnie missile boats, caldari get better cap and tank vs amarr missile boats, caldari generally have the similar or faster speed and similar sig radius.
and despite all they lack in drones, caldari still have better dps. so other races can bring more ecm drones...thats about all that having a larger drone bay gives to the missile ships of other races. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
61
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Posted - 2013.12.20 21:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Deryn Angrard wrote:
drake doesnt need the buff OP wants.
No, but it doesn't need the 6 unbonused launchers either (when dealing kinetic damage isn't the best option). Check the damage bonuses on Osprey Navy Issue, why not paste them to Drake as well (even though I would personally prefer 5% RoF/level bonus over that)? |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
260
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Posted - 2013.12.20 21:48:00 -
[90] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Deryn Angrard wrote:
drake doesnt need the buff OP wants.
No, but it doesn't need the 6 unbonused launchers either (when dealing kinetic damage isn't the best option). Check the damage bonuses on Osprey Navy Issue, why not paste them to Drake as well (even though I would personally prefer 5% RoF/level bonus over that)?
Oh yeah, Navy Osprey has it too. So Hookbill and Osprey NI have already set the precedent. Anyone who claims this would make Caldari missile boats overpowered is nuts. |
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