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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3896
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:04:00 -
[91] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:One can argue and troll over "bug, exploit or intended mechanic" semantics all you want, reality is that it's outright silly for someone set to "green" entering a limited engagement while not actively having chosen to do so. The whole "well don't set to aggressive then" is a similar fallacy as "afk cloakers are no threat" bullshit.
It's obviously an oversight by CCP because they don't really do any sort of combat. pvp or QA. I will give you a Nyx if you show me where an AFK cloaker killed someone.
Can I have an Aeon if I figure out how to do it? This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7105
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 12:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
I really wouldn't be surprised if there's actually a way. and either nobody's figured it out yet or someone has and has been inconspicuous enough not to get noticed. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Haygrove
Sturmgrenadier Inc
2
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Mobile Tractor Units (MTU's) are one of the few things in this game that require no skill at all to use, and are very profitable... if you are careful. That this happens to mission runners without some warning is unfortunate for some, but also can serve as a wake up call that no bonus in Eve Online comes without some measure of risk. Really though, some sort of announcement should go out from the Dev/GMs on this as so far these units have been hailed as skill-less free ISK makers, when in reality they have risks just like anything else in this game.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14932
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
It's relatively easy to avoid if you're paying attention, pull your drones in when a member of the mission inspectorate visits. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
406
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Magna Mortem wrote:Kate stark wrote:Magna Mortem wrote:Kate stark wrote:dunno, *maybe* this topic since you keep posting in the thread. I'm not sure he knows either, so I thought I'll ask. Of course I do keep posting, they keep doing it too. :) I have five more minutes of time to kill! "lol just trolling, lol" is not really saving much face when people know that you're mad. I'm not trolling. I had no idea this would escalate so easily. I still consider it as a bug and I still believe that it'll get declared an exploit and get patched. If not, then I'll use it too, but considering the masses of people who will start doing this, I really don't see how that won't happen. Aaaand i'm off. o7
Its not a bug, its simply the logical extension of the existing rules, and the rules surrounding deployables.
As a very dedicated droneboat pilot (who has near perfect skills for a mach, yet missioned in a domi), I think its also perfectly acceptable. Why does a golem point (with 75m3 unbonused drones) have them on aggressive for anyway. if that pilot doesn't direct them, then they will likely expend themselves on targets they can barely or not break the tank for. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17890
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:But if you really need the "bug" described: Despite the fact that the safety system prevents going suspect or criminal and does not prevent combat, the idea that another capsuleer can force a limited engagement without going criminal themselves is not in keeping with how the safeties mechanics work. If you shoot another person's wreck you get concordokkened - why is it that this situation is any different? Because the convenience of personal mobile structures is that the convenience comes at the cost of increased exposure GÇö they are very explicitly and deliberately not something that triggers CONCORD. And no, the safeties have absolutely nothing to do with keeping you out of limited engagements. In fact, they too are explicitly and deliberately excluded from what safeties control.
And no, you can't force anyone to engage with you. You can only trick them. The solution to that is to not be tricked. There is no bug.
Magna Mortem wrote:The drones should never agress with green safety, but they do. Sure they should. The safeties are only there to keep you away from S- and C-flags. That is all. Again, no bug.
All of these behaviours are as intended and as described. There is no bug, no exploit, not even any kind of undocumented feature (for once) since all of this has been described in detail in the various devblogs that deal with the mechanics involved. Don't want your drones to take aggressive actions against legitimate targets? Then don't tell them to. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Mizhir
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
48309
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:24:00 -
[97] - Quote
GÖÑ Marlona Sky
This is brilliant One Man Crew - The official Bringing Solo Back contest
SCL5 Winner |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
129
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:GÖÑ Marlona Sky
This is brilliant
If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1235
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:27:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP wants more PvP in High-Sec so they're doing it by forcing people to shoot mobile tractor beams deployed by people that use drones as a weapon system thereby tricking them into combat.
Yup, makes perfect sense to me. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17890
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:CCP wants more PvP in High-Sec so they're doing it by forcing people to shoot mobile tractor beams deployed by people that use drones as a weapon system thereby tricking them into combat. Forced GÇö adj.
1. the most misapplied word in the EVE vocabulary. 2. does not mean what you think it means. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
640
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:35:00 -
[101] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:CCP wants more PvP in High-Sec so they're doing it by forcing people to shoot mobile tractor beams deployed by people that use drones as a weapon system thereby tricking them into combat.
Tricking them how? When any of us deploy drones we have the option to set them passive or aggressive. One of those choices can lead to mission runners ending up with their drones getting them into a limited engagement and the other can prevent it. That's not tricksy, it's error (or not, if they've got friends waiting to pounce) or it's laziness on the part of the mission runner. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Haygrove
Sturmgrenadier Inc
3
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
And we all know how up to date the Drone Interface is. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14932
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
Haygrove wrote:And we all know how up to date the Drone Interface is. We all know that the drone interface is, to put it bluntly, shite. That doesn't make what the OP is describing a bug or an exploit, especially when it's trivially easy to avoid. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17893
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Haygrove wrote:And we all know how up to date the Drone Interface is. We all know that the drone interface is, to put it bluntly, shite. That doesn't make what the OP is describing a bug or an exploit, especially when it's trivially easy to avoid. Especially when this part of the drone interface is pretty darn easy and actually works. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
58
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
theres a drone interface? |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1235
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Bel Tika wrote:theres a drone interface?
So I'm told. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. |
Kate stark
1022
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:03:00 -
[108] - Quote
Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing.
the point of the green safety is to prevent a suspect flag. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5345
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:05:00 -
[109] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. the point of the green safety is to prevent a suspect flag. obviously we need another safety that prevents you from doing anything that makes you engageable by a nonsuicide gank
eg: it would make sure you stay in an npc corp There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
129
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The safeties are only there to keep you away from S- and C-flags. That is all. Again, no bug. All of these behaviours are as intended and as described. There is no bug, no exploit, not even any kind of undocumented feature (for once) since all of this has been described in detail in the various devblogs that deal with the mechanics involved. Don't want your drones to take aggressive actions against legitimate targets? Then don't tell them to.
If in doubt...do...excessively. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
129
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
edit: lol, never mind If in doubt...do...excessively. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7106
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:10:00 -
[112] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Kate stark wrote:Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. the point of the green safety is to prevent a suspect flag. obviously we need another safety that prevents you from doing anything that makes you engageable by a nonsuicide gank eg: it would make sure you stay in an npc corp We need another safety that turns PVP off entirely. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Ariel Dawn
F9X
1158
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:10:00 -
[113] - Quote
If you use drones, don't use a MTU if you suspect people may try to blow you up. Anybody who can dress themselves in the morning can figure this one out. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14933
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 13:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. When someone has a pop at an MTU they go suspect, the crimewatch rules say that you can shoot at a suspect, entering a limited engagement, without Concord getting in your face; weapons you can use to do so include drones. Working as intended as far as I can see. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7106
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 13:16:00 -
[115] - Quote
I didn't actually intend my drones to be aggressive when they were set to aggressive... Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5345
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:22:00 -
[116] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. When someone has a pop at an MTU they go suspect, the crimewatch rules say that you can shoot at a suspect, entering a limited engagement, without Concord getting in your face; weapons you can use to do so include drones, which admittedly behave like a Clowder of Felis Catus under the influence of psychoactive substances. Working as intended as far as I can see. clearly the answer is to make it concordable to shoot mtus
and mobile depots. There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Casanunda
Church Of The Eternal Cosmic Confidence Trick
142
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:24:00 -
[117] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:clearly the answer is to make it concordable to shoot mtus
and mobile depots. You're so droll, I think I wub you
The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5345
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:28:00 -
[118] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Alice Ituin wrote:What's the point of the green safety when you can still do stuff that gets you a limited engagement timer? When you set your drones to aggressive you don't get a warning that his might make you a legal target. One or the other needs fixing. When someone has a pop at an MTU they go suspect, the crimewatch rules say that you can shoot at a suspect, entering a limited engagement, without Concord getting in your face; weapons you can use to do so include drones, which admittedly behave like a Clowder of Felis Catus under the influence of psychoactive substances. Working as intended as far as I can see. clearly the answer is to make it concordable to shoot mtus and mobile depots. actually wait
with green safety, you can accept a duel, right? it shouldn't let you There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over.
Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action. ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Logan Revelore
Minimal Solutions Aurora Irae
10
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Magna Mortem wrote:Tippia wrote:Kate stark wrote:Tippia wrote:What makes you think it's a bug? the fact that if your safety is on green you shouldn't be able to flag yourself as suspect.... But that's not what the OP is describing. He's entering a limited engagement with someone who has an S-flag. And if you were able to do your own research, you'd understand it's a bug. Safety on Yellow prevents you from taking any actions that will incur the wrath of concord. Safety on Green prevents you from taking any actions that will give you a suspect flag. Shooting a suspect gives you a 5 minute limited engagement with said suspect. This is working as intended.
I think the issue here is that the drones are automatically engaging a player with a suspect flag.
According to the OP as I read it there are two scenarios where the drones should behave the same way in both scenarios, but they don't.
Scenario 1: Enemy player shoots his MTU, the enemy gets a S-flag. The drones automatically attack him if they're set to aggresive mode, which triggers the limited engagement.
Scenario 2: Enemy loots a wreck, the enemy gets a S-flag. The drones do not automatically attack him if they're set to aggresive mode, so the limited engagement is never entered.
Problem with scenario 1 is that it's possible for a player with green safety setting to get into a situation where he's a legitimate target, without him ever doing anything to cause this, other than forgetting that his drones are set to aggresive and trusting that they won't do anything to put him in this situation in the first place. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17895
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 13:37:00 -
[120] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Problem with scenario 1 is that it's possible for a player with green safety setting to get into a situation where he's a legitimate target, without him ever doing anything to cause this, other than forgetting that his drones are set to aggresive and trusting that they won't do anything to put him in this situation in the first place. GǪand other than deliberately deploying a mobile structure that is purposefully designed to allow conflicts to be generated. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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