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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2007
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Posted - 2013.12.26 18:45:00 -
[331] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them,
It is actually, as fleet warping removes any and all possible errors in timing on bomber fleet warps, it removes any an all possibilities of error during combat fleet warps, and thus negates all differences in human interaction and any possible error on the pilots part.
However none of that matters because the core valid complaint about drone assist is that you're turning over control of you ship to another player. So if we're going down that road, we remove all methods of turning over control of your ship to another players.
Don't try and change the reasons 14 pages in or nuance them in some way, you want players to be responsible for their own ships, and thats something I can fully support, only they have to be responsible for ALL the actions of their ships.
Have fun getting 1k dudes moved around easily in that situation
[quote=James Amril-Keshnot to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.[/quote]
All carriers have the same lock range, and it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2598
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 18:51:00 -
[332] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely. All carriers have the same lock range, and it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here
It would be trivial. It would also mean making compromises, just like gunships have to make for greater range. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Leigh Akiga
Trickle Down Economics
425
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 19:17:00 -
[333] - Quote
Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7253
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Posted - 2013.12.26 19:18:00 -
[334] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing. Trivial, eh? Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
504
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 19:31:00 -
[335] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.
Does this fit CCP Seagulls vision laid out at fanfest of brave explorers venturing off into the unknown? Or do you need 60m skillpoints and a supercap first?
Lol at RL class warfare referances.
Entrenched? The CFC, who are raging about how they supposedly can't counter slowcats, somehow AREN'T the entrenched elite? The only difference between the two is the CFC and the Russians blob with subcaps and N3 are throwing slowcats back at them because thats the only fleet comp that works against superior numbers.
The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2009
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Posted - 2013.12.26 19:33:00 -
[336] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing. Trivial, eh?
All our carriers carry 2-3 RSB's already and often have at least one fit.
I went over this on another forum already, using many pictures and math I showed how the Omni's aren't as important as you might think, and that theres more flexibility in the mids than people understand. Right now we're using two types of drones, and largely ignoring the other types because the Omni's give us enough range. Removing those for other things would just require us to use all 4 drone types.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7255
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Posted - 2013.12.26 19:38:00 -
[337] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. Sounds like you took it too seriously. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
504
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 19:55:00 -
[338] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. Sounds like you took it too seriously.
Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun.
But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :) How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5606
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 22:44:00 -
[339] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing. Trivial, eh? Not bad.
So they wouldn't have all the omnidirectional tracking links on? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7258
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 23:45:00 -
[340] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. Sounds like you took it too seriously. Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun. But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :) So that's a yes, then.
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Edit: But when you come across someone who has come up with a fleet doctrine that you're not willing to field the counter to (dozens of Titans for DDs) don't go whining about it on the forums. What's the counter to titan blobs? A bigger titan blob. Who has more titans? N3PL. Gee I wonder why we don't try that. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7258
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 23:46:00 -
[341] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.
Does this fit CCP Seagulls vision laid out at fanfest of brave explorers venturing off into the unknown? Or do you need 60m skillpoints and a supercap first? Lol at RL class warfare referances. Entrenched? The CFC, who are raging about how they supposedly can't counter slowcats, somehow AREN'T the entrenched elite? The only difference between the two is the CFC and the Russians blob with subcaps and N3 are throwing slowcats back at them because thats the only fleet comp that works against superior numbers. The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. This just in, ONLY slowcats will work against superior numbers. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2184
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 23:51:00 -
[342] - Quote
I'm not going to whine about drone assists in the classic way because I'm finding that argument kind of old and gauche.
But a long time ago I made a post on this forum that I'd love to see sentry drones work in a completely different method. Instead of staying static in one place they would orbit/follow the ship deploying them rather than sit in a single place on field. This would have positive and negative effects (See traversal would become more of an issue if the drones are moving too).
As far as assisting goes, I don't really see why drones are any different than fighters in that they allow a single pilot to control an unlimited number compared to say fighters where you can control as many as you can normally control drones. Either limit the drones to five per person, or let me zip around in a stilleto with 200 fighter bombers chasing me around. Either would make me happy. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5606
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 00:12:00 -
[343] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. Sounds like you took it too seriously. Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun. But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :) So that's a yes, then. M1k3y Koontz wrote:Edit: But when you come across someone who has come up with a fleet doctrine that you're not willing to field the counter to (dozens of Titans for DDs) don't go whining about it on the forums. What's the counter to titan blobs? A bigger titan blob. Who has more titans? N3PL. Gee I wonder why we don't try that. they are trying to bait our intelligent supercap FCs into a moronic welp ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over. |
Karrl Tian
Bourbon Bandits Anarchy.
292
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 00:17:00 -
[344] - Quote
What's a slowcat? |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
85
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 00:27:00 -
[345] - Quote
THE SCOURGE OF THE UNIVERSE!!!111!!!
(grr) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7259
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 00:30:00 -
[346] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:they are trying to bait our intelligent supercap FCs into a moronic welp Boat can command dreads to log in and out, maybe he'll jump his titan into N3 staging. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5606
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 01:11:00 -
[347] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:they are trying to bait our intelligent supercap FCs into a moronic welp Boat can command dreads to log in and out, maybe he'll jump his titan into N3 staging. please don't remind me about that
i log my titans in and out
... in and out ... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
785
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 01:51:00 -
[348] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:
So really it could be anything, anything at all, having and adverse effect on the code, for you to say 'OH ITS THE CARRIERS" makes you look like a moron, because you literally have less idea than I do and I'm technically on the same level as the Clovis people.
So its nothing at all to do with the drones swelling the numbers by 5x for our domis and 10x with your carriers, putting the node under stress for hours at a time and then taking a literal dump when the escalation dreads and then supers jump in? I dont buy it, CCP, as far as we can tell, have not changed anything to do with the impacted things and subacp fleets are getting along just fine with the same numbers involved. lets compromise
maybe its a pissy piece of code that scales horribly invovling drone calculations, maybe instead of screaming "waaagh waaagh nerf carriers nerf carriers theya re the sole evil of tidi" you should maybe ask CCP to optimize the code to more properly handle the fights
i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time
fact is, you dotn KNOW for a fact WHAt causes the issues, you arent looking at the game code, hell for all we know it could be the archons themselves with soem stupid registry in the code that causes lul-death when massed, hell it could be the fact that you have X number of yellow supercapitals within Y distance of Z red subcaps.
or ffs it could be CCP sitting thier pissing their pants with laughter as they press the big red button everytime a big fight goes down, after all, trolls love to reap tears, and who is the biggest troll besides CCP, the people who made Trolls Online (said with all the love) |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
785
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 02:19:00 -
[349] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Ivanna Logoffski wrote:Capitals were never meant to stomp the crap out of subcaps. Says who? Were you on the original design team for capitals? Can you maybe share some of the original design notes for capitals? Do you also believe that frigates should be untouchable by Battleships and Battlecruisers? Do you think it would be ok that since in your 'ideal' world caps can hurt subcaps that the reverse would be true as well in that subcaps can't hurt caps and you need caps to fight caps? Do you live in an imaginary world where all of the nerfs to supers never happened? Titans and motherships as well as dreadnaughts all ate large nerfs in the last few years specifically to their ability to engage subcaps. Carriers were saved from losing their non-fighter drones specifically because they were supposedly still weak enough to be engaged by subcaps, something which is obviously no longer true. So one would think you'd be a bit more cautious about openly crowing how your carrier fleet is immune to all subcaps. fact is, were arguing scale, the ONLY way to "balance" carriers in such a way that a fleet of 250 of them isnt "OP" is to nerf the abse hull tot he point that without a full 250 man fleet they are USELESS.
on your arguement, a full fleet of naglfars can almost one-shot a normally fit titan, thats OP, so each individual nag should be nerfed so that no matter how many you have they cant one shot a titan |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
785
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 02:20:00 -
[350] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Capital rebalance IS coming. Drone assist is also, aside from its strengths and weaknesses, a pretty stupid mechanic.
Also, we are definitely willing to use the counter. We're just not ready to yet. So in the meantime NERF THE THING THAT WE CAN'T BEAT BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SUFFICIENTLY TRAINED THE COUNTER!!!!!1! SYJ, still producing chuckles, even with a good chunk of the old guard up and leaving |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7259
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 03:23:00 -
[351] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time We don't have pets, and this is the first time we've had renters. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
786
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 03:26:00 -
[352] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time We don't have pets, and this is the first time we've had renters. eh, pretty much everyone in the CFC besides goons is a second-class citizen, which makes them renters, their isk just goes to buying pre-made body bags for the meat grinders instead of directly into the alliance wallet |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7259
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 03:28:00 -
[353] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time We don't have pets, and this is the first time we've had renters. eh, pretty much everyone in the CFC besides goons is a second-class citizen, which makes them renters, their isk just goes to buying pre-made body bags for the meat grinders instead of directly into the alliance wallet Only people outside of the CFC buy this little story people keep trying to spin.
When I was in RAZOR it certainly wasn't true. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Itinerant Empire
218
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 04:31:00 -
[354] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time We don't have pets, and this is the first time we've had renters. eh, pretty much everyone in the CFC besides goons is a second-class citizen, which makes them renters, their isk just goes to buying pre-made body bags for the meat grinders instead of directly into the alliance wallet Only people outside of the CFC buy this little story people keep trying to spin. When I was in RAZOR it certainly wasn't true.
In fairness, there is a wide gulf in ability to function independently as an alliance between say, RAZOR and Li3 or FA. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7262
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 04:34:00 -
[355] - Quote
Ask them if they feel treated like pets. If nobody in Goonswarm considers them pets, and if they don't feel treated as such, then are they really pets? Probably not. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9257
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 04:42:00 -
[356] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:baltec1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:
So really it could be anything, anything at all, having and adverse effect on the code, for you to say 'OH ITS THE CARRIERS" makes you look like a moron, because you literally have less idea than I do and I'm technically on the same level as the Clovis people.
So its nothing at all to do with the drones swelling the numbers by 5x for our domis and 10x with your carriers, putting the node under stress for hours at a time and then taking a literal dump when the escalation dreads and then supers jump in? I dont buy it, CCP, as far as we can tell, have not changed anything to do with the impacted things and subacp fleets are getting along just fine with the same numbers involved. lets compromise maybe its a pissy piece of code that scales horribly invovling drone calculations, maybe instead of screaming "waaagh waaagh nerf carriers nerf carriers theya re the sole evil of tidi" you should maybe ask CCP to optimize the code to more properly handle the fights i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time fact is, you dotn KNOW for a fact WHAt causes the issues, you arent looking at the game code, hell for all we know it could be the archons themselves with soem stupid registry in the code that causes lul-death when massed, hell it could be the fact that you have X number of yellow supercapitals within Y distance of Z red subcaps. or ffs it could be CCP sitting thier pissing their pants with laughter as they press the big red button everytime a big fight goes down, after all, trolls love to reap tears, and who is the biggest troll besides CCP, the people who made Trolls Online (said with all the love)
CCP Tuxford's big red button aside, it wouldn't be the first time mass use of drones have caused issues of this nature. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5674
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 04:42:00 -
[357] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ask them if they feel treated like pets. If nobody in Goonswarm considers them pets, and if they don't feel treated as such, then are they really pets? Probably not. Well, your corp was in RZR before, right? Did you feel like pets? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5674
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 04:44:00 -
[358] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:i mean, this is the first war goons will have that isnt them shitting on their own pets and renters in a long ass time We don't have pets, and this is the first time we've had renters. eh, pretty much everyone in the CFC besides goons is a second-class citizen, which makes them renters, their isk just goes to buying pre-made body bags for the meat grinders instead of directly into the alliance wallet Only people outside of the CFC buy this little story people keep trying to spin. When I was in RAZOR it certainly wasn't true. You know, we actually have renters.
And the income from the renters is a coalition thing, and guess what, allies get money from that. Yes, surprising .... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons; 0.0 dream is over. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2737
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 07:52:00 -
[359] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t. Sounds like you took it too seriously.
Having a leadership who allegedly don't work IRL and only run the alliance isn't taking it too seriously?
Granted, I'm not sure how accurate that claim is, but if it is true - that's a pretty serious commitment to a video game. The organizational triumph of GSF and the CFC is not some prosperous fluke. It is the product of many people from top to bottom taking the game very very seriously. Seriously enough to put 60+ hours a week into it, to not have jobs in real life, to spend thousands of dollars on flights and bar tabs in order to lobby the developers themselves, to employ a full intelligence spy network, a full time logistics team to haul unthinkable amounts of supplies and fuel, to manage hundreds of star systems and tens of thousands of pilots, and to do it all with the same triumph in the PvP sector that the CFC has done.
The CFC is one of the greatest player organized groups in gaming history. I can't think of any other gaming group in any other MMO that had the depth and complexity of the CFC. I can't think of any other that has reaches such near overwhelming control over so much of the game world. All of this is because the CFC take themselves and the game very seriously. Politics, metagaming, and personal risk included.
So don't pretend that you're just derpy underdogs who casually play the game only on the weekends. Don't try and bullshit us. You're not. You take the game just as seriously (if not more seriously) than a vast majority of the pubbies and pets you so disparage.
Edited for typos and mistypes. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
705
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 08:14:00 -
[360] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them, not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely. Warp speed is negated in a fleet warp, scanres is negated in drone assist. The whole fleet initiate warp and hit grid at the same time, the whole fleet's alpha hits the target at the same time with drone assist. The difference is navigation vs weaponry, its the same concept. The problem is that, with fleet warp you go with the speed of slowest ship, but when it comes to assists, you use fastest locking speed (unless you're terrible).
Besides, achieving synch in warp with different ships is impossible because you can't choose to warp slower than at max speed unless you use fleet warp, while drone assists just facilitate something everyone can do already... Except that it ignores EWar and allows you to use someone else's stats instead of ones of your ships (which are set for a reason). |
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