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warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.12.26 18:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cross chaining two Strategic Cruiser lines and the cost would make this ship difficult, but not impossible to acquire. Think about the possibilities if such a ship were to be created: They would need both racial specialties on one platform, like a Gurista Missile/Drone Cruiser with ECM/Damp bonuses. It would cost twice as much to fit them and twice as much to train. (Plus, when they go pew, the kill boards will look amazing)
The question is would a ship like this be OP, Does cost alone keep them balanced or would dual specialties need to be balanced?
A well fitted Strategic Cruiser and hull would be a few Billion isk, something like this would be even more expensive and could be equivalent to flagship or a good POS set up.
Just throwing an idea out there, if CCP wants to take it, can you give me one of the Pirate Strategic Cruiser's BPO as a gift? :D |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
922
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Posted - 2013.12.26 19:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:Cross chaining two Strategic Cruiser lines and the cost would make this ship difficult, but not impossible to acquire. Think about the possibilities if such a ship were to be created: They would need both racial specialties on one platform, like a Gurista Missile/Drone Cruiser with ECM/Damp bonuses. It would cost twice as much to fit them and twice as much to train. (Plus, when they go pew, the kill boards will look amazing)
You make it sound like training them would be hard.
Quote:The question is would a ship like this be OP, Does cost alone keep them balanced or would dual specialties need to be balanced? Yes it would be OP, and no, cost alone is never a sufficient balancing factor for something being super-OP. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
685
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Posted - 2013.12.26 19:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:A well fitted Strategic Cruiser and hull would be a few Billion isk False, a well fit T3 costs somewhere in the region of 800mill to 1bill. Only when you start adding unnecessary pimp does it get expensive. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
38
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Posted - 2013.12.26 20:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:warzonetemp wrote:A well fitted Strategic Cruiser and hull would be a few Billion isk False, a well fit T3 costs somewhere in the region of 800mill to 1bill. Only when you start adding unnecessary pimp does it get expensive.
He means his T3s, but not the cost isn't a good balance factor. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2645
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Posted - 2013.12.26 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caldari-Minmatar T3GǪ Mmmm... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
504
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Caldari-Minmatar T3GǪ Mmmm...
A Minmatar T3 that ACTUALLY can use missiles?! How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2645
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:A Minmatar T3 that ACTUALLY can use missiles?! Exactly! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
784
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:warzonetemp wrote:A well fitted Strategic Cruiser and hull would be a few Billion isk False, a well fit T3 costs somewhere in the region of 800mill to 1bill. Only when you start adding unnecessary pimp does it get expensive. onlyplace REAL t3's are flown is Wspace, and we regularly drop 1-2 bil on a single combat T3, hell, the richer C6 alliances like i was in would have near 2-bil pvp t3's, dont even get me started on the pimp in our capitals and PvE ships |
Ahri Kurama
Rocks Blocks Builders and Bastards Order of Consumptive Desolation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Honestly I feel your idea is doomed form the start, needing more pirate cruiser hulls will be a drain on CCP time, not to mention that each ship will need to be modular for all the possible sub systems you place in it.
An easier way would be to allow the current T3's a pirate sub system option, limit it to one or two pirate subs per ship.
e.g A loki/prot with a Serpentis 90% web electronic sub. (Replaces the point range or web range sub that would have been in that slot)
Since every thing is tied into lore you would need to provide a reason for these new subs, maybe the rats in Ghost sites are collecting sleeper wrecks in their spare time. The only way to get these sub system BPC's would be to complete the rare Ghost sites where they are being engineered.
This way you are not decreasing the drop rates of current T3 components getting slightly new T3 and promoting the completion of the new Ghost sites in j-space. Risk/reward and all that jazz.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
932
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:warzonetemp wrote:A well fitted Strategic Cruiser and hull would be a few Billion isk False, a well fit T3 costs somewhere in the region of 800mill to 1bill. Only when you start adding unnecessary pimp does it get expensive. onlyplace REAL t3's are flown is Wspace, and we regularly drop 1-2 bil on a single combat T3, hell, the richer C6 alliances like i was in would have near 2-bil pvp t3's, dont even get me started on the pimp in our capitals and PvE ships
Are they real because they're used for pvp or because they have a lot of isk on them? If the latter, I gotta say you'll find expensive t3's everywhere. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
270
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Posted - 2013.12.27 05:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Batelle wrote:You make it sound like training them would be hard.
all racial cruiser 5, all racial strat cruiers (some subs all 5, some mixed 4/5) checking in
As I know when hot dropped caps whether passably or uber trained will die if the hot drop large enough....I stopped at passable. I also have no desire for mommies or titans. When you don't go full bore in the last 3 big types of ships nor ever plan to, you tend to have loads of time to focus train sub caps lol. I would not be alone in this training setup I imagine.
Also if based on current pirates at some point many jsut go and train the cruiser 5's anyway. Flying a cyna 4 days a week...may as well fly it proper with max racial skills.
Cost....ccp has tried limits by cost in the past. It does not work. Those not space poor have no issues spending isk. This would be why mommies and titans once a "corp" buy have many private owners now. The many isk faucets put in game over several years made this very doable. Not all players hoard their billions of isk to never be used. Its only game money...so tney make their game fun and interesting with what they have. |
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.12.27 07:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'd rather see T3 frigates, battlecruisers, or even battleships. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
623
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Posted - 2013.12.27 07:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
this discussion is mute and void .... as T3 and pirate is as separate as T1 and T2
remember the pic
...............Pirate............. ...............Navy.................. T3................T1...................T2 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.12.27 21:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why not have Multi-Role Pirate Cruisers?
As for the comparison between Faction vs. Pirate with pirates not having the faction range of ships, We have a Pirate Supercarrier, already, so what's wrong with Tech 3 Pirate Cruiser? I think the point that Pirate ships cannot be upper tiered based beyond T1 training is moot, since CCP has already done it with the Revenant.
A Pirate ship should always have a slight advantage in one area over normal T1 and even T2 ships, there is no real Pirate platform for heavy Electronic warfare, logistics, or command, which I think this can solve in terms of lore. Instead of building up Pirate BC's and Command Cruisers or Pirate HAC/HIC, we can skip all that.
In lore, we know the pirates are stealing a lot of Empire Tech, so why not push the envelope and develop a Pirate version of T3. You will need a lot of training to fly one of these things properly, isk for its multiple roles, and the way to build them should be rare BPC drops keeping their numbers statistically low like 1 in 500 Pirate Null sec Officer Complex BPC drops. It is still possible to obtain, but it will remain a rare commodity.
As for the claim that, isk costs cannot stop someone from buying something. It's true in the general sense, but in all honesty, we are all able to afford anything in Eve to be honest if you have the time and goal of obtaining it. I am playing around with billion isk Marauders just testing the new mode and dedicated a few hours to make it all back in a few rounds of trading. Isk is not hard to make, but it is even easier to spend. If I want to buy myself something big and shiny like a Supercap for myself, I still have to save and spend time on the markets.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
624
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Posted - 2013.12.27 21:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
what's a T1 capital ship got to do with anything? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2649
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 23:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pirate Battlecruisers? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.12.28 02:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:what's a T1 capital ship got to do with anything?
Technically, the Revenant is classified as a Super Carrier, thus making it a Super Capital, not a plain Capital ship like standard Carrier or Dreads.
The fact is that while the ship is accessible with rare BPC drops and is on paper, the highest DPS Super Carrier in game, it is not OP.
Skill, rarity of BPC's, and costs kept them from OP, so why can't faction strategic be the same? There will be more than 2 of them in Eve of course, but the rarity would keep them at a lower production than easily accessible faction counterparts.
Ship rarity keeps the game interesting and keeps players wanting. Just make sure the BPC drops are rare enough to keep production low, but high enough to make players yearn for it and head into Pirate null for a chance. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
110
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Posted - 2013.12.28 13:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sounds interesting... Those things would be beasts probably. I'd like to see more ship sizes with pirate ships (and navy, why not)! |
Tabris Katz
The Ecstatic Cult of Dionysus Trifectas Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2013.12.28 14:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't see this working, you have to remember that pirate ship/module are derived from a completely different technology base then T3.
For example, where would the bpc's come from? As of know T3 bpc's come from reverse engineering components recovered from Sleeper relic sites and formated with raical data chips recovered from Sleeper data sites. So where would we find pirate data chips?
Lore wise I don't know of any pirate expeditions into wormholes. However I wouldn't be surprised if there is some.
In the end however, I think it comes down to the simple fact that pirate and T3/2 ships aren't compareable in a teir based system. They are mutually exclusive and should remain such for game balance if nothing else. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1182
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:Harvey James wrote:what's a T1 capital ship got to do with anything? Technically, the Revenant is classified as a Super Carrier, thus making it a Super Capital, not a plain Capital ship like standard Carrier or Dreads. The fact is that while the ship is accessible with rare BPC drops and is on paper, the highest DPS Super Carrier in game, it is not OP. Skill, rarity of BPC's, and costs kept them from OP, so why can't faction strategic be the same? There will be more than 2 of them in Eve of course, but the rarity would keep them at a lower production than easily accessible faction counterparts. Ship rarity keeps the game interesting and keeps players wanting. Just make sure the BPC drops are rare enough to keep production low, but high enough to make players yearn for it and head into Pirate null for a chance.
small flaw with this proposal
pirate factions are found in:- Nulsec, Lowsec & Hisec sleepers are found in:- wormholes
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Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
314
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Posted - 2013.12.28 16:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:warzonetemp wrote:Harvey James wrote:what's a T1 capital ship got to do with anything? Technically, the Revenant is classified as a Super Carrier, thus making it a Super Capital, not a plain Capital ship like standard Carrier or Dreads. The fact is that while the ship is accessible with rare BPC drops and is on paper, the highest DPS Super Carrier in game, it is not OP. Skill, rarity of BPC's, and costs kept them from OP, so why can't faction strategic be the same? There will be more than 2 of them in Eve of course, but the rarity would keep them at a lower production than easily accessible faction counterparts. Ship rarity keeps the game interesting and keeps players wanting. Just make sure the BPC drops are rare enough to keep production low, but high enough to make players yearn for it and head into Pirate null for a chance. small flaw with this proposal pirate factions are found in:- Nulsec, Lowsec & Hisec sleepers are found in:- wormholes
That isnt a flaw the 4 races dont live in womrholes yet have T3s |
warzonetemp
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.12.31 01:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lore wise, I wouldn't be surprised if Pirate factions go into Wormholes, since we do it all the time. As for acquiring Strategic Cruiser Technology from the Empires, why wouldn't they? These little babies can tank like a Battleship, fly like Frigate, and dish out DPS like a machine gun.
For those not getting through the idea of Tech 3 and Pirate, we just call these things Tech 3 ships, but in reality there's only one class of tech 3 ship, the Strategic cruiser, so why don't we just drop the concept of calling it being Tech 3 and instead refer it as what it is, a ship class with special requirements. Once you do that, a Pirate Strategic Cruiser becomes more palpable.
As for how to acquire the BPC's, I am thinking Pirate Nullsec (-0.9 and below) deadspace complex for BPC as part of an officer drop and Wormhole Sleeper sites for raw materials. The rarity, danger, and needs of both a Wormhole operation and Null sec operation will be useful in keeping production low.
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
633
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Posted - 2014.01.05 18:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
warzonetemp wrote:Lore wise, I wouldn't be surprised if Pirate factions go into Wormholes, since we do it all the time. As for acquiring Strategic Cruiser Technology from the Empires, why wouldn't they? These little babies can tank like a Battleship, fly like Frigate, and dish out DPS like a machine gun.
For those not getting through the idea of Tech 3 and Pirate, we just call these things Tech 3 ships, but in reality there's only one class of tech 3 ship, the Strategic cruiser, so why don't we just drop the concept of calling it being Tech 3 and instead refer it as what it is, a ship class with special requirements. Once you do that, a Pirate Strategic Cruiser becomes more palpable.
As for how to acquire the BPC's, I am thinking Pirate Nullsec (-0.9 and below) deadspace complex for BPC as part of an officer drop and Wormhole Sleeper sites for raw materials. The rarity, danger, and needs of both a Wormhole operation and Null sec operation will be useful in keeping production low.
This is a very likeable idea, BPC could drop in wh ghost sites for the subsystems and null ghost sites for the hull
Ship and subsystem skills can drop in low and hs ghost sites. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
994
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 19:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
not before i get a frig that can fit 4 DD's.
why? because it would be cool. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Drake Doe
SVER Bloodpack Insidious Empire
439
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 19:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
One thing you forgot about is the revenantd lower drone bandwidth, which if you do the math, leads to nyx dps if I'm nit mistaken "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
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