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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 07:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm fairly sure warp to a distance has always been a thing, it's just that the minimum distance was 15 km. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1021
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Posted - 2013.12.29 08:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
It works like this: http://i.imgur.com/wCKxdWb.png The blue arrows are intended warps, while the red marks indicate where warps get stopped and where you get "dragged" to.
The calculation on whether you land on the gate or in a bubble is done at the time your ship enters warp, not when you enter grid. This actually prevents a "cheap" tactic of the camper up the bubble (using an interdictor or such) as the target is already helplessly in warp, making scouting / d-scanning actually effective.
The calculation is so "simple" since even as it is, it can be fairly difficult to get a good spot for a bubble, particularly if you're aiming for a drag bubble.
If you're in an interceptor or a nullified T3, you are also immune to these "drag" effects in addition to being able to warp from within the bubble. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
763
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Just because I think no thread on this topic is complete without those: Bubble mech Bubble avoidance |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3157
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:It works like this: http://i.imgur.com/wCKxdWb.png The blue arrows are intended warps, while the red marks indicate where warps get stopped and where you get "dragged" to. The calculation on whether you land on the gate or in a bubble is done at the time your ship enters warp, not when you enter grid. This actually prevents a "cheap" tactic of the camper up the bubble (using an interdictor or such) as the target is already helplessly in warp, making scouting / d-scanning actually effective. The calculation is so "simple" since even as it is, it can be fairly difficult to get a good spot for a bubble, particularly if you're aiming for a drag bubble. If you're in an interceptor or a nullified T3, you are also immune to these "drag" effects in addition to being able to warp from within the bubble.
So EVE definition of a trap is "something that will catch you if you as much as walk in its direction even if you don't really reach it".
I wonder how much alcohol and 16 hour nights it takes until something like that makes sense... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
548
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Working as intended. Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7918
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:It works like this: http://i.imgur.com/wCKxdWb.png The blue arrows are intended warps, while the red marks indicate where warps get stopped and where you get "dragged" to. The calculation on whether you land on the gate or in a bubble is done at the time your ship enters warp, not when you enter grid. This actually prevents a "cheap" tactic of the camper up the bubble (using an interdictor or such) as the target is already helplessly in warp, making scouting / d-scanning actually effective. The calculation is so "simple" since even as it is, it can be fairly difficult to get a good spot for a bubble, particularly if you're aiming for a drag bubble. If you're in an interceptor or a nullified T3, you are also immune to these "drag" effects in addition to being able to warp from within the bubble. So EVE definition of a trap is "something that will catch you if you as much as walk in its direction even if you don't really reach it". I wonder how much alcohol and 16 hour nights it takes until something like that makes sense... Because the trap pulls you in. Seriously? Come on now. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13416
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:Too many times have I been in my stealth bomber and been warped to the edge of a mobile warp disruptor, when I select warp at 100km resulting in a loss of my ship.
Frankly, I don't understand why this happens. Does this happen to anyone else?
The situation explained more clearly:
A group sets up a gate camp and has a mobile warp disruptor within 10km of the gate.
I warp to the gate at 100km to scout the gate. I actually end up warping right to the edge of the bubble 10km from gate.
Does anyone else feel this is a bit ridiculous? Is there a logical reason for this happening? Please tell me!
Thanks!
Yes. The warp disruption bubble disrupts your warp. That's pretty much the point of them.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13416
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:It works like this: http://i.imgur.com/wCKxdWb.png The blue arrows are intended warps, while the red marks indicate where warps get stopped and where you get "dragged" to. The calculation on whether you land on the gate or in a bubble is done at the time your ship enters warp, not when you enter grid. This actually prevents a "cheap" tactic of the camper up the bubble (using an interdictor or such) as the target is already helplessly in warp, making scouting / d-scanning actually effective. The calculation is so "simple" since even as it is, it can be fairly difficult to get a good spot for a bubble, particularly if you're aiming for a drag bubble. If you're in an interceptor or a nullified T3, you are also immune to these "drag" effects in addition to being able to warp from within the bubble. So EVE definition of a trap is "something that will catch you if you as much as walk in its direction even if you don't really reach it". I wonder how much alcohol and 16 hour nights it takes until something like that makes sense...
Such traps are not difficult to evade, if you care to go to the trouble of making any effort to do so. Generally, warping to a nearby moon then warping to a gate will allow you to completely ignore such snares. If the route is one you travel frequently, make bookmarks a few hundred kilometres to the side of/above/below the gates and use those.
Drag bubbles only catch the lazy
1 Kings 12:11
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7918
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only thing I hate about bubbles is how they look when you have a dozen or so of them on top of one another.
Seriously, you can't see anything in that ****. I doubt that's intended. If CCP could fix that all would be good. I haven't seen a pile of bubbles like that since their graphical change. Does it still impair visibility? I never noticed it impairing visibility until after the change. For each bubble you have to look through it gets brighter and brighter, to the point where if you're looking through 5+ bubbles it's so ridiculously bright you can't see anything, not to mention it puts a lot of stress on my computer. Individual bubbles look great, but when they're stacked it's absolutely horrific. I'll get a screenshot here soon. Here's a few shots for you:
http://i.imgur.com/SJY0ch1.png http://i.imgur.com/LaG4PBM.png http://i.imgur.com/P0b9xIw.png
It's a little ridiculous. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4321
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hey guy, I launched a bubble with my Sabre & died because I couldn't warp away. Is there any logical reasoning behind this game mechanic? This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18592
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So EVE definition of a trap is "something that will catch you if you as much as walk in its direction even if you don't really reach it". No, the EVE definition of a trap is GÇ£something that is pretty easy to avoid or go around if you know it's there.GÇ¥ Kind of like most traps. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7920
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 10:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Also that last picture even hurts to look at for me. It's too ******* bright. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Mag's
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
16369
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 10:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
That is utterly ridiculous and quite frankly, unplayable.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2234
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
It literally takes over 2 years to figure out that drag bubbles exist. Oh god. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1260
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
ASadOldGit wrote:Erm, this thread seems to have evolved into a "how to bypass bubbles" thread, but the point I think the OP was making was that his ship is being influenced by bubbles, even though the entirety of his actual flightpath was outside the range of the bubble. If I've got this correct, a T2 large bubble anchored at 10 KM from a gate would affect an area up to 50 KM from the gate, assuming it's lined up between the 2 gates. If you warp to 100 KM, you haven't reached it yet to be affected by it. I'm wondering if the server calculations are being done in the wrong order, i.e.
- Draw a line between Source and Destination gate
- Check for existence of bubbles. If so, mark ship as being drag-able.
- THEN check for modifiers to destination (e.g. -100 KM)
The destination is not the gate! So why is the server thinking there's a bubble in his flightpath? I'm only guessing, but I thought I read somewhere that anything warp-related is calculated in advance, and not done per server-tick. Is that true? If that is the case, I'm surprised none of you have complained that you can't anchor a bubble after someone has initiated warp. Can someone verify that that is the case, or do you still get dragged out after warp is initiated (assuming there were no bubbles when you started)? What a bubble does is screw with your nav computer prior to warp. If the bubble is in line it replaces your warped to object with itself. The bubble doesn't catch you it simply acts as a replacement warp to.
Once you're inside it trying to warp out of it doesn't work since anything you warp to is changed to warp to where you are.
The reason dropping bubble after warp but before ship arrives on grid fails is because when the ship warped there was no bubble to adjust the point to warp to so the nav system correctly calculated the jump in time. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
176
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Posted - 2013.12.29 11:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm not a big fan of bubbles either, but this thread has pretty much hit on all the ways to avoid them.
1) To have a chance at safely traveling through null in something that's not interdiction nullified, you need an interceptor scout. There is almost no way around this. No matter what precautions you take, you can never really know if the other side of the gate has a bubble set up. If you have nanos and an MWD fit, then it's usually possible to burn back to the gate, even in the case of a substantial gate camp. This doesn't do you much good if they manage to get both sides of the gate camped.
2) MWD + cloak. This is your friend. Google/YouTube it.
3) In some systems, determined trap-setters can make it so there's literally no angle you can approach a gate from. This can also be accomplished by just burying the gate in bubbles. In either case, bookmarks ~300km above or below the gate are the best way to counter this. Obviously, if the gate is buried in bubbles, you probably won't be able to go through that gate, but you won't get caught either.
4) Know when it's time to use the "Log off Safely" feature*
* The badass variation of this is to fit a core probe launcher for travel and slip out through a wormhole. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
523
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Posted - 2013.12.29 12:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.
Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely. If I haven't been able to visit that system before I couldn't make a bookmark. Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think. I just don't think it makes much sense.
Make a safe spot between celestials and warp from there then. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Magna Mortem
the noise a cow makes while mating
128
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Posted - 2013.12.29 13:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Also that last picture even hurts to look at for me. It's too ******* bright. How do you surf the web? Most sites are white. Googles home page is 99% white. The game can't provide s whiter white than all the other things. It's slways $FFFFFF.
Just wondering. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7922
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Posted - 2013.12.29 13:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Magna Mortem wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Also that last picture even hurts to look at for me. It's too ******* bright. How do you surf the web? Most sites are white. Googles home page is 99% white. The game can't provide s whiter white than all the other things. It's slways $FFFFFF. Just wondering. The web isn't dark 99% of the time and then blindingly white. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
273
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Posted - 2013.12.29 14:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
I had no clue bubbles worked in this manner, and as such I do find it kind of goofy. I always imagined they worked as a "field" that if passed through or close to they would "drag" you out of warp, resulting in your being inside their warp scrambling range. This would mean placing a bubble anywhere in a mostly straight line between point A and point B would result in people being forced out of warp at that point with their relative position to the center of the "bubble" determined by how close their warp vector was to the center. A "drag bubble" was something I envisioned as an off center bubble designed to catch targets using a narrow D-Scan, forcing them out of warp at your chosen point of conflict. While what I've read so far shows the current mechanics aren't hard to avoid, they are a little confusing since there is no documentation on them, and the name doesn't imply that the bubble has a "drag" effect akin to a tractor beam. Perhaps it should be renamed to "Warp Navigation Disruption," as that would imply it does more than just stop you from warping while within it's range. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3167
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:It works like this: http://i.imgur.com/wCKxdWb.png The blue arrows are intended warps, while the red marks indicate where warps get stopped and where you get "dragged" to. The calculation on whether you land on the gate or in a bubble is done at the time your ship enters warp, not when you enter grid. This actually prevents a "cheap" tactic of the camper up the bubble (using an interdictor or such) as the target is already helplessly in warp, making scouting / d-scanning actually effective. The calculation is so "simple" since even as it is, it can be fairly difficult to get a good spot for a bubble, particularly if you're aiming for a drag bubble. If you're in an interceptor or a nullified T3, you are also immune to these "drag" effects in addition to being able to warp from within the bubble. So EVE definition of a trap is "something that will catch you if you as much as walk in its direction even if you don't really reach it". I wonder how much alcohol and 16 hour nights it takes until something like that makes sense... Such traps are not difficult to evade, if you care to go to the trouble of making any effort to do so. Generally, warping to a nearby moon then warping to a gate will allow you to completely ignore such snares. If the route is one you travel frequently, make bookmarks a few hundred kilometres to the side of/above/below the gates and use those. Drag bubbles only catch the lazy
And those who suffer a severe information asymmetry, be them new players or old ones.
Go figure, I've been playing the game for 5 years, and I knew that there was something called a "drag bubble", but I thought that they were bubbles located 100 km from the gate so they would intercept incoming traffic from that direction. The part with the ships being magically teleported from 100 km away of the gate to a bubble 10 km of it because of the drag from CCP's massive balls completely had escaped me for 5 years. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints Circle-Of-Two
691
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/article-index.html |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
86
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
From the EVE Wiki about how the warp drive works: "Finally, a solution was found. It was discovered that gravity capacitors similar to the control system used in stargates were able to pick up gravity signals from GÇÿnormalGÇÖ space while the ship was on FTL speed. By locking the capacitor onto one of these signals, the ship travels to it"
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_drives
So basically, the bubble doesnt catch you while you warp through it. It alters the gravitiy signal that your warp drive is targeting, thus making you land somewhere else than you intended to. It also explains why you dont need to actually cross the bubble and why drag bubbles work. Tricking your warp to travel you 100km further or shorter must be easier than making it change its direction, so dragging your warp to the side is almost impossible, or something :)
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5994
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Posted - 2013.12.29 18:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Warp from a gate in the direction of another gate, prepare to die and be podded.
There's even better tricks, like the one where you land offgrid inside a bubble. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
764
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Posted - 2013.12.29 19:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And those who suffer a severe information asymmetry, be them new players or old ones. Go figure, I've been playing the game for 5 years, and I knew that there was something called a "drag bubble", but I thought that they were bubbles located 100 km from the gate so they would intercept incoming traffic from that direction. The part with the ships being magically teleported from 100 km away of the gate to a bubble 10 km of it because of the drag from CCP's massive balls completely had escaped me for 5 years. To be honest, those hundreds of km are nothing when you consider all dem AUs you travel in warp (and can still land where you need with insane accuracy of hundreds of meters at worst). It's not too implausible that interdiction messes with enough stuff that requires precision in all the process so you come out merely within 100 km of your intended destination.
A while back that actually made me thinking, just how safe and reliable EVE's FTL tech is. It's practical, casual and awesome. Just imagine we had to deal with something folks of Star Wars or Warhammer 40000 have to deal with every time they need to travel. We get it soooo easy... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5995
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Posted - 2013.12.29 19:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And those who suffer a severe information asymmetry, be them new players or old ones. Go figure, I've been playing the game for 5 years, and I knew that there was something called a "drag bubble", but I thought that they were bubbles located 100 km from the gate so they would intercept incoming traffic from that direction. The part with the ships being magically teleported from 100 km away of the gate to a bubble 10 km of it because of the drag from CCP's massive balls completely had escaped me for 5 years. To be honest, those hundreds of km are nothing when you consider all dem AUs you travel in warp (and can still land where you need with insane accuracy of hundreds of meters at worst). It's not too implausible that interdiction messes with enough stuff that requires precision in all the process so you come out merely within 100 km of your intended destination. A while back that actually made me thinking, just how safe and reliable EVE's FTL tech is. It's practical, casual and awesome. Just imagine we had to deal with something folks of Star Wars or Warhammer 40000 have to deal with every time they need to travel. We get it soooo easy... There's a bunch of amusing things you can do with bubbles, indeed ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
3723
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Posted - 2013.12.29 19:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:Is there any logical reasoning behind this game mechanic?
Short answer: Yes Long answer: For sure
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lelith Hellebron
44
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Posted - 2013.12.29 20:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quote:Is there any logical reasoning behind this game mechanic?
Because setting good traps would be hard otherwise!! I am a leaf on the wind... Watch how I soar! |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1015
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 20:09:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:Too many times have I been in my stealth bomber and been warped to the edge of a mobile warp disruptor, when I select warp at 100km resulting in a loss of my ship.
Frankly, I don't understand why this happens. Does this happen to anyone else?
The situation explained more clearly:
A group sets up a gate camp and has a mobile warp disruptor within 10km of the gate.
I warp to the gate at 100km to scout the gate. I actually end up warping right to the edge of the bubble 10km from gate.
Does anyone else feel this is a bit ridiculous? Is there a logical reason for this happening? Please tell me!
Thanks!
I really hope this is a troll....
CCP, trading shiny pictures for playability since 2003.. EvE, a cutting edge game. The only game to provide Matrix style gameplay for the masses! (trouble is, most people don't have 9 hours to waste on a one hour fight.) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19121
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Posted - 2013.12.29 21:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mag's wrote:That is utterly ridiculous and quite frankly, unplayable. Agreed, definitely not user friendly.
DMC |
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