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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 10:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
As I've investigated the mysteries of EVE I become increasingly aware that symbolism and iconography is able to play an important role in providing clues to the puzzle, so I'm starting a thread to reveal my findings and prompt discussion.
Please bear with me this will result in several long posts and the session time out has been causing me immense irritation, so it will be constructed using numerous small edits.
Symbolism Iconography |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 11:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amarr
Khanid Kingdom
Ammatar Mandate |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Minmatar |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gallente |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caldari
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Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.07 12:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Others |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
8
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Posted - 2011.11.07 21:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Intaki symbol hints at the ceremonial double-headed axe of ancient Crete's bull-worship religion and ancient Near Eastern religions. Or, looking at the solid parts instead of the vacant part, the way the Egyptian sky goddess Nut is portrayed as curving over the earth god Geb. Maybe....
Gallente Jin-Mei dragon is a pretty straightforward Chinese dragon, representing power, intelligence, magic, weather and the water element.
The ethnic Gallente eagle symbol seems to be directly from the European imperial eagle, which of course derives from the Roman imperial eagle. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
42
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Posted - 2011.11.10 19:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wyke Mossari wrote:As I've investigated the mysteries of EVE I become increasingly aware that symbolism and iconography is able to play an important role in providing clues to the puzzle, so I'm starting a thread to reveal my findings and prompt discussion.
Wyke, when trying to piece together a puzzle, one of the essential steps is making sure that all your pieces actually came from the same box.
I see at least one instance above where an icon was created by a player, and not by CCP. It's quite possible that Eve lore is positively littered with such cases.
Does that make this exercise futile? Of course not. But I humbly suggest you stop trying to "figure out" the puzzle, and instead start appreciating the mosaic.
Construct, don't deconstruct. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.11 05:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
[quote=Telegram Sam]The Intaki symbol hints at the ceremonial double-headed axe of ancient Crete's bull-worship religion and ancient Near Eastern religions. Or, looking at the solid parts instead of the vacant part, its similar to the way the Egyptian sky goddess Nut is portrayed as curving over the earth god Geb. Maybe....
The Intaki symbol is a closed circle, generally symbolising eternity. The Lingam at the bottom is a representation of Shiva, god of rebrth. I have no clue why the solar disc surmounts it? It could actually represent the Yoni, or, female counterpart to the Lingam.
The Ni-Kunni, and quite possibly the Achuran display the Ouroborus, the raw depiction of eternity, that is also represented by an unbroken circle. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.11 05:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
The True Amarr and Emperial logo loosely represent the World Tree, Ygdrassil, etc.. If I got Symbols of the Faith correctly, it loosely implies that the Amarr have put themselves before God in their zeal to serve him, and thus the secretive 5th? symbol, that doesn't exist, bears an older variant of the symbol, or an added piece, that the Amarr clergy don't want seen. |
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2011.11.11 07:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
You could read the Book of Reclaiming, Roga. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.12 00:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Lorebook is more telling thank you, I always thought it was a more recent term, thx for clarifying.. |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
39
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Posted - 2011.11.14 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:[quote=Wyke Mossari]
(Excerted quote) I see at least one instance above where an icon was created by a player, and not by CCP. It's quite possible that Eve lore is positively littered with such cases. But if the icon was posted in Evelopedia, it's official canon, no? The CCP wiki admins reviewed and allowed the posts, correct? Or am I wrong about Evelopedia? |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2011.11.14 17:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
No, I believe the admins only check if you are posting offensive, copyrighted or otherwise "illegal" material on the wiki.
I do not think the wiki admins know enough about EVE prime fiction to determine what player created fiction that might go against it, and it likely is not their job either.
Of course, when stuff on the wiki is posted by CCP personnel it is fairly certain to consider prime fiction/canon. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
15
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Posted - 2011.11.14 18:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:[quote=Wyke Mossari] I see at least one instance above where an icon was created by a player, and not by CCP. It's quite possible that Eve lore is positively littered with such cases.
Can you be more specific about which logos you believe are player created, the only one of uncertain provenance is the one that is identified as an old Khanid family logo. I have queried it's original up-loader. No all player loaded is player created, a lot of centent has be transfered from other parts of Eve, the website, fan-pack and game into the wiki.
My belief is all the rest are official logo in current use.
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Publius Valerius
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2011.11.15 01:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hi Wyke Mossari
Yes I had made the "old Khanid Family logo". I had made there during the time when I created the Ammatar and Khanid Corp sides and I needed a pic with a black backround... (not grey or light black) so I made that pic.... I had some problems with the corp template so I work with some differnt versions....
(sadly I cant somehow link them (BBCode)... just see on the early contributions is the Template:NPCCorporationInfo2 and the Template:NPC (corporation) etc...
I had talk with CCP Ginger on the Lai Dai Corporation (NPC Corp v2 Test) Talk Page about that (The new templates)... during that time the pic was already up... and in use in the Khanid Family Page.. so I think it is okay... and no problem....
P.S. I had made the Khanid Family pic too funny that nobody had sreem about it... I had made it from the Khanid Kingdom or Royal Navy pic.. and the pcs on the Emperor and on the Privy Council page...
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Emily Florence Nightingale
Uskudar
0
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Posted - 2011.11.15 13:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Really interesting stuff here.
But, i'm not sure it show much more than the fact CCP did alot of cultural research
Still, interesting stuff
good post |
Telegram Sam
41
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Posted - 2011.11.16 16:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Caldari symbols seem to be an exception, in that they're simply derived from the Roman alphabet. The Caldari State's symbol pretty plainly looks like a Roman alphabet C (for "Caldari"). It's also somewhat similar to the symbol for the euro dollar. Which would cleverly fit into the idea of Caldari being a commercial/corporate state.
The Nugeoeihuvi corp symbol looks the Roman letters NOH. Apparently letters taken from the corp's name.
The Kaalakiota corp symbol looks like a couple of runes, or Mesopotamian cuneiform, or the Japanese hiragana characters for the syllable ku. But they're probably just two stylized Roman alphabet Ks (for the two Ks in the name Kaalakiota). Maybe made Japanese-looking because of the Caldari language Finnish-Japanese connection?
Ishukone's three crescents appear to be just an abstract corporate logo graphic. But they're similar to the Japanese hiragana character for shi, which with the character for yu would from the shu in Ishukone. Seems like kind of a stretch, though.
These symbols are all official lore , from the eveonline.com Backstory pages.
If these symbols are indeed from the Roman alphabet, it stands to reason that that that alphabet is still used in New Eden. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.17 00:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have had the most difficulties in finding the symbology of the Caldari, if there really is any..
The Euro symbol looks the most feasible to me as the inspiration. Was the symbol being tossed around back then? This poor Yankee couldn't say. Though the five pointed star is well represented, too, it is generally viewed as having a military connotation, further evidence of the caste system I proposed long ago..
The Deteis symbol seems to draw from Celtiberian script and the Civire seems to mimic Japanese (and other) military ribbons. I was also suprised to find that the mirror is very important in Japanese culture.. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.17 02:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Caste and it's symbology\iconography obviously influenced the "Terran culture" that the devs have built.. In that both the Vedic Caste system and the Chinese "Four Occupations" are reflected by the four races of New Eden..
Amarr - Brahmins - Scholars Caldari - Kshatria - Artisans Gallente - Vashyas - Merchants Minmatar - Shudras - Farmers
Could the Jove be the "Untouchables" of the Terran culture? |
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Telegram Sam
43
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Posted - 2011.11.17 15:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Roga Dracor wrote: Caste and it's symbology\iconography obviously influenced the "Terran culture" that the devs have built.. In that both the Vedic Caste system and the Chinese "Four Occupations" are reflected by the four races of New Eden..
Amarr - Brahmins - Scholars Caldari - Kshatria - Artisans Gallente - Vashyas - Merchants Minmatar - Shudras - Farmers
Could the Jove be the "Untouchables" of the Terran culture?
Interesting! The four races could also fit into the Four Elements of the Zodiac, Western philosophy and alchemy (Earth, Air, Fire and Water). With the outlier Jovians as the unearthly fifth element Ether. Also the Western four aspects of a human being: mind, body, heart and spirit). Whether the devs consciously did it or not, setting up four races with different characteristics does kind of follow the four aspects/elements tradition. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
17
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Posted - 2011.11.17 15:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've made some additions above and still have a lot more notes to go through and add. I agree about Ishukone it looks very much like an Angel fish but couldn't find much semantic association for it. Hysyoda is a bit more interesting and have some material in my notes somewhere.
I'd missed the Deteis symbol and agree that is interesting.
I agree the Intaki symbol does look like an Axe but I'm think it is a stylised lower case " i ". I have a little further material on Intaki, there is an ancient Sufism Poet called Al-Intaki and Al-Antaki but it's difficult getting past all the Eve results when searching with those. Also checkout Idries Shah.
I agree about the idea of 4 cardinals as a recurring theme and that is nice lead for some more digging. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 14:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
I still like the Lingam and Yoni as a interpretation for the Intaki logo..
Course it kinda looks like the BBCode instructions button at the top of the edit page, too..
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Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 17:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
[quote=Telegram Sam
Interesting! The four races could also fit into the Four Elements of the Zodiac, Western philosophy and alchemy (Earth, Air, Fire and Water). With the outlier Jovians as the unearthly fifth element Ether. Also the Western four aspects of a human being: mind, body, heart and spirit). Whether the devs consciously did it or not, setting up four races with different characteristics does kind of follow the four aspects/elements tradition.[/quote]
Not only the elements, the number four is rife in human symbology. There is also the Illuminati, Freemasonry and it's conspiratorial association to the Roman Collegium. The former two rely heavily on symbology in their organization and rites. The Eye of Providence and the Freemason symbols look unusually Amarr.. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 23:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Looking at some of your own links, Wyke, I noticed this, or this, much closer to the Vherokior symbol.. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.21 01:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Just got to thinking, maybe the nautilus was the ancestor to The Hanging Long-limb. Harden the tentacles for land based existence, etc. Or maybe that is the symbol, not a nautilus, at all..
Tried to link The Hanging Long Limb chronicle for the pic, but the forum doesn't like the code...? |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
58
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Posted - 2011.11.21 22:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
58
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Posted - 2011.11.22 14:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
/\ /\ /\ I started to comment on Roga's posts, but the Illuminati and/or Trilateral Commission hacked me. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
2
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Posted - 2011.11.23 18:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Another thought on the Caldari symbol based more upon my own areas of pursuit atm.. ?Caldari? |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
145
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Posted - 2012.01.07 10:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
I've made a lot of edits, updates and additions to the first few posts of this thread.
Roga Dracor wrote: Another thought on the Caldari symbol based more upon my own areas of pursuit atm.. ?Caldari?
Perhaps I think it's closer to this, inverted perhaps as a commentary clue. |
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