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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
1097
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Posted - 2013.12.29 20:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
This was like blinking in my newsfeed a couple minutes ago
Report 1 Verge
Report 2 Forbes
Report 3 Spiegel
Fun times uh?
Put your tinfoil hats on boys!
Quote:"While the report does not indicate the scope of the program, or who the NSA is targeting with such wiretaps, it's a unique look at the agency's collaborative efforts with the broader intelligence community to gain hard access to communications equipment. One of the products the NSA appears to use to compromise target electronics is codenamed COTTONMOUTH, and has been available since 2009; it's a USB "hardware implant" that secretly provides the NSA with remote access to the compromised machine."
Discuss
KKthnx!
o/ Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
222
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.
Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?
Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ? |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
37948
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 23:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well this is the price that has to be paid for freedom....
Or so they say. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk. |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
218
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 23:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Well this is the price that has to be paid for freedom....
More like the price that has to be paid for letting your government gain too much power over you. |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
37948
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 23:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:Well this is the price that has to be paid for freedom.... More like the price that has to be paid for letting your government gain too much power over you.
Yup, but it seems no one wants to do anything about it.
People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
8691
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 00:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I hope the NSA enjoys going through my search history. It was a VERY interesting month for me . Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
stoicfaux
3748
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Posted - 2013.12.30 02:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I hope the NSA enjoys going through my search history. It was a VERY interesting month for me . It's not your search history I am worried about. It is the search history, phone calls, and cell phone tracking of my politicians that I am worried about.
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Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
222
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 07:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Think about how much damage could be done if an enemy of the US figured out how to get a copy of all the data NSA malware is collecting. After all, this enemy of the US (or the NSA staff spying on people for personal reasons) knows who he wants to spy on. Making it much easier for him to convert the data into useful information.
Now consider the NSA admitting that the only way it knows which documents Snowden took is when someone with a copy makes a document public. Or that they didn't know Snowden took anything until he said so publicly. Now ask yourself: Who else might have grabbed a copy and said nothing ? |
BLACK-STAR
543
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 09:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Schizophrenic government.
Can't invade your nation? We'll invade your privacy! herrrherr |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
812
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 11:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.
Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?
Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ?
No need to.
Once you have all that raw, unprocessed data, you can just use a search engine like for e.g. google once you know what to look for.
As soon as you have the tech, easy as pie.
That's the thing most people don't understand.
The NSA or any other intel Service may not be spying on anyone specific, most of that data will be deleted after some time and nobody (at least no person) will ever have taken even so much as a glance at that data. But as soon as someone decides "look for all persons that did XY, one law or another changed and now they're all criminals" that's what you really should be afraid of.
They're having secret courts, passing laws that strip you of your civil rights and in general they're doing stuff that no sane citizen would ever agree upon, "for your own safety".
Lots of states are treating their own citizen as if they were an enemy of the government they voted for and in doing so, they actually become the enemy of the people they were supposed to serve (yes I still belive that any modern democratic government should be the servant of it's people, not the ruler).
Meh, I'll stop here before this post turns into some random rant. Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
812
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Posted - 2013.12.30 11:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Now ask yourself: Who else might have grabbed a copy and said nothing ?
That reminds me of some old film I once saw I can't remember the name right now.
"We know they have it, they know that we know they have it, we know that they know that we know they have it, but everyone pretends nobody knows anything and everything is fine." Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
224
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 20:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.
Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?
Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ? No need to. Once you have all that raw, unprocessed data, you can just use a search engine like for e.g. google once you know what to look for. As soon as you have the tech, easy as pie.
The information the NSA collects is sufficiently different from existing search engines that the NSA will need to write their own, or at least heavily modify one, to get it working. Plus you're assuming the NSA knows what to look for. Finding information on a known target is simple. Sifting through all that data to find a known target, that's hard. The first is closer to what existing search engines do than the second. Telling a forigner from an American would be simpler than what search engines do. But even that is too hard for the NSA
Has the NSA helped catch anyone ? Have they done so with their spy on everyone programs ?
Article on the past activities Keith Alexander, the guy now in charge of the NSA
"Alexander tended to be a bit of a cowboy: 'Let's not worry about the law. Let's just figure out how to get the job done,'" says a former intelligence official who has worked with both men. See how Kieth doesn't care about the law.
The general didn't say how exactly to make this determination, but it was all the justification Alexander needed. "Hayden's attitude was 'Yes, we have the technological capability, but should we use it?' Keith's was 'We have the capability, so let's use it,'" says the former intelligence official who worked with both men. If we have the capability, don't question if it's moral to use it. Don't question if it's useful to use it. Just use it.
Alexander wants as much data as he can get. And he wants to hang on to it for as long as he can. To prevent the next terrorist attack, he thinks he needs to be able to see entire networks of communications and also go "back in time," as he has said publicly, to study how terrorists and their networks evolve. To find the needle in the haystack, he needs the entire haystack.
"Alexander's strategy is the same as Google's: I need to get all of the data," says a former administration official who worked with the general. "If he becomes the repository for all that data, he thinks the resources and authorities will follow." Collect it under the belief that it will be useful. Figure out what to do with it later.
As for his competency in processing data: When he ran INSCOM and was horning in on the NSA's turf, Alexander was fond of building charts that showed how a suspected terrorist was connected to a much broader network of people via his communications or the contacts in his phone or email account.
"He had all these diagrams showing how this guy was connected to that guy and to that guy," says a former NSA official who heard Alexander give briefings on the floor of the Information Dominance Center. "Some of my colleagues and I were skeptical. Later, we had a chance to review the information. It turns out that all [that] those guys were connected to were pizza shops."
A retired military officer who worked with Alexander also describes a "massive network chart" that was purportedly about al Qaeda and its connections in Afghanistan. Upon closer examination, the retired officer says, "We found there was no data behind the links. No verifiable sources. We later found out that a quarter of the guys named on the chart had already been killed in Afghanistan."
These were the charts he was showing off. The charts he was confident about.
Under Alexander's leadership, one of the agency's signature analysis tools was a digital graph that showed how hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people, places, and events were connected to each other. They were displayed as a tangle of dots and lines. Critics called it the BAG -- for "big ass graph" -- and said it produced very few useful leads. CIA officials in charge of tracking overseas terrorist cells were particularly unimpressed by it. "I don't need this," a senior CIA officer working on the agency's drone program once told an NSA analyst who showed up with a big, nebulous graph. "I just need you to tell me whose ass to put a Hellfire missile on." The CIA didn't like the charts the NSA produced. Too much data, no useful information.
Since I'm hitting the character limit, I don't have room for James Heath, someone who has followed Alexander from position to position, probably because Alexander asked for him. Someone with a reputation for not caring about the expense, and for leaving expensive projects unfinished. Someone who also believes that big data is the solution, even if the facts disagree.
"There's two ways of looking at these guys," the retired military officer says. "Two visionaries who took risks and pushed the intelligence community forward. Or as two guys who blew a monumental amount of money." Which are you going with ?
As I see it, the NSA is invading peoples privacy for no gain in security. Making my position simple, as the NSA is doing nothing to offset the harm in loss of privacy or to justify it's huge budget. Prove that the NSA actually helps make America secure and my position will need to be reevaluated. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
742
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 08:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Now ask yourself: Who else might have grabbed a copy and said nothing ? That reminds me of some old film I once saw I can't remember the name right now. "We know they have it, they know that we know they have it, we know that they know that we know they have it, but everyone pretends nobody knows anything and everything is fine."
About every cold war movie ever, I-¦d say.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Need to advertise your Corp or service? Look no further, this space is now for rent!
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1202
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 12:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote: most of that data will be deleted after some time
I seriously seriously doubt that
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1915
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 16:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
A perfect world is one with complete surveillance combined with no rules whatsoever except "do not intentionally harm another human" (and also automatic safeguards against accidental harm of another human, but that's a different can of worms)...
We're apparently getting closer on the first part. And getting closer with full steam. Woefully lacking on the second part though. And not even willing to get closer to it. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Matokin Lemant
4083
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 18:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jeez the old soviet union wasn't even this bad...
At which point does "In the interest of nationality security" become an invasion of peoples privacy ect. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
226
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 19:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akita T wrote:A perfect world is one with complete surveillance combined with no rules whatsoever except "do not intentionally harm another human" (and also automatic safeguards against accidental harm of another human, but that's a different can of worms)...
We're apparently getting closer on the first part. And getting closer with full steam. Woefully lacking on the second part though. And not even willing to get closer to it. Surveillance is no use without competent people looking at all the recorded data. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
86369
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 19:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:Pix Severus wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:Well this is the price that has to be paid for freedom.... More like the price that has to be paid for letting your government gain too much power over you. Yup, but it seems no one wants to do anything about it.
Not quite. Nobody has the Power to do anything about it.
Nobody is even sure just what exact entity is behind it all (hint: it ain't the NSA). "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
86369
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 20:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote: Surveillance is no use without competent people looking at all the recorded data.
Oh yes it is. The maliciously inclined non-competents can still find plenty of stuff to exploit. Really. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1915
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 06:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Akita T wrote:A perfect world is one with complete surveillance combined with no rules whatsoever except "do not intentionally harm another human" (and also automatic safeguards against accidental harm of another human, but that's a different can of worms)... We're apparently getting closer on the first part. And getting closer with full steam. Woefully lacking on the second part though. And not even willing to get closer to it. Surveillance is no use without competent people looking at all the recorded data. If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance. And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
581
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 03:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Basically big brother is making sure no one is kicking him out of power. At least in the USA there's nothing anyone can do. This kind of stuff is supported by both political parities in power. The only thing that will collapse the government at this point is rot from the inside.
I wish we could find out who the NSA players are in Eve... I want to gank them |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
228
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 03:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Akita T wrote:A perfect world is one with complete surveillance combined with no rules whatsoever except "do not intentionally harm another human" (and also automatic safeguards against accidental harm of another human, but that's a different can of worms)... We're apparently getting closer on the first part. And getting closer with full steam. Woefully lacking on the second part though. And not even willing to get closer to it. Surveillance is no use without competent people looking at all the recorded data. If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance. And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not. Define 'harm' in a way that a computer could understand.
As for judging the data after it's flagged, you're ignoring how difficult it will be to flag it in the first place. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1915
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 18:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Akita T wrote:If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance. And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not. Define 'harm' in a way that a computer could understand. As for judging the data after it's flagged, you're ignoring how difficult it will be to flag it in the first place. Just because either one of us with our current limited understanding of what technology can do wouldn't be able to adequately define a next to fool-proof way of defining it doesn't mean it can't ever be done with sufficient accuracy.
Even if it couldn't actually be done in real-time and with near-perfect accuracy, you still have a fairly decent workaround which is both already implementable to some degree (with the bonus of being easy to explain) and satisfactorily accurate. Basically, if a person is alive (and that should be easy to ascertain) and in adequate mental health (not that easy to check, but a rough approximation can be used practically), they can do the flagging themselves. And if they're dead (which should be trivial to flag), reviewing the surveillance can reveal the cause of death easily enough most of the time. Yes, there are exceptions and workarounds, but most can be handled with additional simple rules. And, well, for the rest, there's always the equivalent of police to search for and investigate possible unflagged harm. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Adunh Slavy
1323
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 20:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akita T wrote:If the only rule set would be "do no harm", that should be easy to automate given sufficiently decent surveillance. And you only need a jury-like group of random people (the more, the merrier) to decide whether stuff that gets flagged is really bad or not.
"Do No Harm", So I can spy on you and know everything you do, but you have to trust me, or this mythically jury, who operates in secret (I.E. FISA court) not to abuse that information, and that supposedly is not doing you any harm?
Government spying is harm. There is no wishy washy half way answer that can absolve government of its evil. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Capt Under
Starlight Holdings Starlight Inception.
19
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
A perfect world is one with complete transparency which breed justice for all, which are not the same as goverment surveillance which currently are dominated by the military industrial complex and indirectly by Corporate America. As we should ALL learn from history (but still fail due to being naive, complacent and stubborn), all big power structures eventual become corrupted by conflict of interest including government which really should be treated as an teenager and not as an adult. Leave powerful goverment with to much lack of accountability and they become like the spoiled rich teenagers burning down the neighborhood and using your tax money + credit card to pay for hookers, drugs and 5 star hotels. Goverment answer to the people which serve as "parent" not the other way around. As "parent" it's your citizen obligation to make sure your goverment stay honest and responsible. Taking personal responsibility also dictate not trusting any information at face value but listen to independent media for balanced reporting and investigative journalism.
Saying goverment surveillance will do no harm is like saying a bunch of spoiled rich teenagers will not abuse their position of power. To many people still suffer from "stockholm syndrome" where the victim try to rationalize "soft tyranny" or "soft despotism". The goverment are doing it for "the people" so "soft despotism" must be necessary evil, right? So what's next? Cobra commander announces his candidacy - 2016? Because tyranny have become cool! The bad guys in US are like 10 steps ahead of most civilians and many people still try to rationalize "soft despotism" while despots wannabes in Kings Landing (Washingting DC) are plotting to destroy whatever is left of the constitution and US founding principles. Now go back to sleep America, everything is ok. The goverment got the corruption under control, LMAO "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." Thomas Jefferson
Personal I belong in the camp that say, give me freedom or death. I am much more afraid of abuse of power than death so there are nothing in my world that can rationalize "soft despotism". Fortunately soldiers that are politically active are not as ignorant as most civilians, they are waking up. What will you do when the military or militia roll into town to start a revolution? watch more braindead TV or get a grip on reality that this is not a joke. Soon or later the "positive military/militia" will make a stand and this is the end game and the countdown has already started. Tick tock, time to wake up.
All the soliders took an oath of enlistment to defend the US constitution but because of all the privatisation that started after WW1/WW2 there have been a conflict of interest within the military industrial complex. That privatisation, President Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech 1961, but much earlier warnings was given by Major General Smedley Butler that prevented the police state plot of 1933. Privatisation of the military and corporate power dont answer to the people they answer to the war profiteers on Wall Street such as big banks/big oil. As General Butler said in his book, war is a racket and Butler saw first hand that the military was used as mercenaries for Wall Street. It's well documented that WW2 Germany was funded by "I.G. Farben" which had close ties to American oil companies such as Standard Oil, the same ownership and mentality that today now make alot of money from American investment banks and duping the military to secure their petro dollar system that was put into place by Henry Kissinger in 1973. Not to mention, look at the tax exempt foundations that have been funding Monsanto? Hallo!. Same criminals again. Using tax exempt foundations to avoid public scrutiny and launder money to financial support collectivism are quite brilliant but also very sinister. German members of "I.G. Farben" did indeed go to jail for supporting WW2 Germany so this is public record and not speculation. But the American members of "I.G. Farben" was never prosecuted. But most important why? have the big media failed to tell Americans the whole story about Major General Smedley Butler which confirmed the existence of American members of "I.G. Farben". The bad guys know what's on stake here, prison or WW3. They know it, which is why they are using every dirty trick in the handbook to start a war with Syria and/or Iran. Dont but take my word for it, listen to General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned
GÇ£In the lead up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw at a minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility, at worse, lying, incompetence and corruption.GÇ¥ General, Anthony Zinni (former Commander in Chief of the United States Central Command)
You think goverment surveillance is bad? You think the US won WW2? What's important to know about WW2 is not who won on the battlefield but who won control of the printing press and operation Golden Lilly to steal vast amount of hidden gold reserves from countries throughout Asia. Follow the money/gold and it all goes back to the Federal Reserve System and Bank for International Settlements. BIS and the FED control all the hidden trust funds that have been confirmed do exist by whistle blowers such as Karen Hudes.
The only thing we know for sure is that we know very little about the world we live in. This is just the beginning of disclosure and in 2014 and years forward, the general public will be hard pressed to go much deeper into the rabbit hole. |
Sarik Farek
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 13:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.
Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?
Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ?
Don't worry about the processing part... |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
85
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 21:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
The NSA: Spamming themselfs with **** from my hard drive since forever. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
643
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 04:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sarik Farek wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Spy on everyone. Claim to be after bad guys.
Does the NSA even know how to process all that raw data into useful information ?
Is there anyone working for the NSA who will even ask that question ? Don't worry about the processing part...
Got to love it. Sadly most Americans don't really care because they have the "sheep" mentality. |
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 19:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
IIshira wrote:
Got to love it. Sadly most Americans don't really care because they have the "sheep" mentality.
At least one thing we know for sure, Caldari state exists for real. Where are the RL Minmatar ? ;-)
0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story-á |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
336
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 09:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:
Put your tinfoil hats on boys!
hmm well the latest thing is they, and the GCHQ are using things like Angry Birds to get all kinds of info from you. Yes... because we all know how terrorists... love... angry birds...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/nsa-gchq-smartphone-app-angry-birds-personal-data
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