Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Seranova Farreach
577
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 03:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
as title says.. we have had official response on repeated bumping, what about repeated suicide ganking? CCP care to comment? it is typically the same as bumping because both can be disruptive to game play but suicideing can cost a loss of isk and for newer players; a RAGEQUIT.. permanently.
and can you clarify what defines
GM Karidor wrote:made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment[/b][/u] is there a minimum time limit on how often or how many jumps one must go to have made sufficient effort? and does it have to be the same person? or members of the same corporation whom are operating on the same extortion racket? _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
culo duro
EveryoneVersusEveryone.com EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
581
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 03:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
suicide ganking is apart of the game, if you don't like it make it so it isn't profitable for the suicide gankers to gank you, they usually do it for profit, or because you're whining like a little b*tch to them. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
784
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 04:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Seranova Farreach
577
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 04:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
i do somewhat agree with its basic premise its just a clarification on what could be deemed "normal" and what could be deemed as greifing / harassment as at the center of it; its still the same effect as Bumping. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
577
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 04:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden.
attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities.
remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
577
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 04:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
culo duro wrote:suicide ganking is apart of the game, if you don't like it make it so it isn't profitable for the suicide gankers to gank you, they usually do it for profit, or because you're whining like a little b*tch to them.
i know its a legit part of the game but what i was asking about was to what point does it go form legit game-play to greifing and harassment.. and what constitutes a sufficent "move" from the effected belt/system/constilation/region so that if the ganking persists from the same/related parties it could be classed as greifing / harassment?
TL;DR CCP give us clarification and answers on "suicide ganking: how far till its greifing / harassment" _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Garven Dreis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 05:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think you need to remove the "causing newer players to quit" and "where CCP get's their cash" from your argument.
Currently, you cannot grief new players in the rookie systems. This rule has been around for a fair while now, and it does provide a fairly safe environment for newbies to get adjusted to the most rudimentary controls of the game. I personally don't think newer players have anything worth that much anyway.
While I am not a GM nor do I represent CCP, I would say that if you can legitimately justify your ganking in about 15 words or less, then it should be fine as long as it's not a rookie system.
Furthermore, I think that if a player is being repeatedly ganked, then that player should examine their playstyle to see how they can avoid being killed in the future. I am loathe to support some kind of "Well I moved X systems from where you killed me last, therefore you cannot kill me by game rules" catch-all.
I think the best thing you can do is petition a GM with an outline of what you plan to do. Only a GM would really be able to give you a solid answer. Everything I have written is from my own past experiences. In Manticore we Trust |
Istyn
Freight Club The Marmite Collective
277
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 05:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Repeated bumping doesn't result in any cost for the bumper.
Repeated suicide ganking does cost the ganker.
/thread |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
626
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 05:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Here is the response!
DAB THE SAND OUT OF YOUR VAGINA AND MAN THE **** UP.
XOXOXOXOXO |
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
45
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 06:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ganking costs the attacker his ship and security status, eventually leading to him having to either pay up by ratting or buying tags to give to Concord in Low-sec or be annoyed by NPCs every time he tries to do anything other than pass by a system, either case while being a valid free-for-all target until his SecStat is > -5.
Also, he cannot gank again for 15 minutes, because undocking in anything other than pod with a criminal flag = instant Concordoken.
Ganking has penalties that limit how often a ganker can strike. Bumping doesn't, hence the need for a GM ruling to prevent and define harassment. |
|
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
116
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 07:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities. remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all
What most of the people who cry about suicide ganking forgets is that the ganking part also pays for the game... If you cant suicide gank anymore, you also risk losing those subs. I would rather lose subs from the game being a different alternative than any other game, than lose subs because the game is like any other out there. Victims must adapt or leave, thats the nature of the game and if the basic idea behind the game is ruined, I promise you the game will be dead within a year or 2, because there are many space games out there! |
Danalee
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
281
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 09:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:as title says.. we have had official response on repeated bumping, what about repeated suicide ganking? CCP care to comment? it is typically the same as bumping because both can be disruptive to game play but suicideing can cost a loss of isk and for newer players; a RAGEQUIT.. permanently.
Your premise is all wrong I'm afraid.
Ganking (a ship destroying another ship in a space ship combat game) is in no way shape or form considered harassment.
I'll try and make it clear with an example from my alliance; We kill goonies and other noobs all day every day. Even if they move some systems over, we track them down and kill them again and again. Our entire alliance is made for this purpose. It's how the game can be played, no GM/DEV will ever even frown upon it.
Hope that clears it up.
D.
e: need to clarify that noobs = perma virgins that don't adapt, not new players in newbie systems. |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
702
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 14:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
The GMs are never going to give a specific answer like "if you make x many jumps and get ganked by the same player, that equals harassment," because hunting specific people or organizations down and killing them is part of the game. There are many legitimate in-game context reasons why you would want to hunt the same guy down and gank him repeatedly over a long period of time. Like, for example, if he persisted in mining in your asteroid belts without a permit.
Harassment and griefing are subjective things. Most people would not consider themselves harassed if they are suicide ganked, even if it happens several times. Some people will file a petition at the drop of a hat. I can recall an incident where a friend and I noticed a guy running Angels missions in Curse in a Talwar. We waited on a gate for him in an Atron and Executioner, both T1 fitted, and killed him without a fight when he jumped into us. We had given him about the fairest fight he will ever be likely to see in nullsec, and he accused us of griefing and threatened to petition us. When I am bumping miners, I am always polite and friendly, yet seldom does a day go by that I am not accused of harassment.
The GMs can only really fairly judge these things in a few ways. Things that definitely cross the line are making out of game threats or extremely inappropriate language or links in chat with the intent to offend, particularly racist or homophobic insults or materials. In short, the blurry line of distinction is between things that affect you in-game and out-of-game. How many jumps somebody made to target you? I can't even imagine that is a factor. If it was, I don't expect that we would have locator agents. everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
527
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 15:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities. remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all
All these arguments have happened before and will happen again. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
990
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:i do somewhat agree with its basic premise its just a clarification on what could be deemed "normal" and what could be deemed as greifing / harassment as at the center of it; its still the same effect as Bumping.
CCP wil never give a har dnumber. OTherwise gankers will just 1 less than the limit.
They treat it case by case and things need to be extreme for them to take measure. IF the gankers are tanking adnvatage because you ar e arich dumb guy that lieks to AP, your problem they will enve rinterfere.
If they hunt you wherever you go abolutely ALWAYS and every tiem you log in the find you to gank you in whatever ship you board.. they might interfere. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
123
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities. remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all
For every ragequit 10 rage joins. So it is in CCP's best interest to allow it. |
Trevor Dalech
CandyMan Cartel Point Blank Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
If someone finds you, traps you, and then kills you, you need to figure out what happened and how you can prevent this in the future. If you don't, and repeat the same set of actions while the guy who killed you is still in system he will find you, trap you, and kill you again and again until you adapt. That's the way of EVE, whether it's high, low or null sec, and whether you're a miner, explorer, missioner, hauler, or whatever.
On the other hand, once you've learned how not to get found, trapped and killed, the next step is to figure how to appear like a noob, bait him and then kill him. That's when the real fun starts. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
511
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 23:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:On the other hand, once you've learned how not to get found, trapped and killed, the next step is to figure how to appear like a noob, bait him and then kill him. That's when the real fun starts.
Watch this guy, he's going places.
Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
|
VegasMirage
Side Effects. Serious Space Holding Alliance
1458
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 13:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spell Check... CAN YOU USE IT MUTHER ****ER! no more games... it's real this time!!! |
Magna Mortem
the noise a cow makes while mating
163
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 14:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:Spell Check... CAN YOU USE IT MUTHER ****ER! Yours isn't working either. |
|
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 16:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:as title says.. we have had official response on repeated bumping, what about repeated suicide ganking?
is there a minimum time limit on how often or how many jumps one must go to have made sufficient effort? and does it have to be the same person? or members of the same corporation whom are operating on the same extortion racket?
Quote: While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents).
|
Angelic Overlord
The Defiant Enterprise
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 17:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
My experience with ganking is to not behave like prey. If mining have a proper tank, yes I know you want to have ore mining upgrades but a proper tank might convince the ganker to go to the next barge that has a lesser or no tank. align to your station or stargate. Don't afk. Don't go to the exact same spot in the same belt every time(pattern of an afk miner) D-scan a lot or have local set up so you can see every ship in system. If some one is tagged as a criminal you might want to leave until the bad pirate goes away. Never fly a ship you cannot afford to lose. NEVER cry in the Crime & Punishment thread if you do get ganked. If you are transporting valuble things have an escort. If you go to lo-sec expect to lose your ships occasionally. and lastly, this is a game.. if you lost your ship it is because someone outplayed you. Learn the game, and outplay them next time. This is a sandbox all playstyles are valid. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 20:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities. remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all Most gankers are nice to newbies. We introduce them to a playstyle that is unique to eve and can't be found in other games. If we don't get raged at most of us are willing to help victims ensure that they will not be caught again. I would be doing more of a disservice to new players if I told them that high sec is a safe place where people can't harm them, and that they need 20 million sp to start playing the game. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1677
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 06:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have never seen anyone repeatedly suicide gank a newbie.
If you can link me a killboard where someone has ganked 6+ Ventures belonging to the same player, then I'll take your comments seriously.
That's the only mining ship a newbie can fly, as even the humble Mining Barges take significantly more training time to sit in than battleships do. We in the New Order certainly don't bother shooting up Ventures often. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Adolph Weltschmerz
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 09:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:as title says.. we have had official response on repeated bumping, what about repeated suicide ganking? CCP care to comment? it is typically the same as bumping because both can be disruptive to game play but suicideing can cost a loss of isk and for newer players; a RAGEQUIT.. permanently. and can you clarify what defines GM Karidor wrote:made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment[/b][/u] is there a minimum time limit on how often or how many jumps one must go to have made sufficient effort? and does it have to be the same person? or members of the same corporation whom are operating on the same extortion racket?
Things like suicide ganking and the risk of "real" loss is what makes this game stand out. If a few new players quit because of it, this game is not for them. Changing the game to make it "nicer" or "easier" will make it lose its appeal. Im sure some people here remember SWG's faith with CU and NGE.
That being said; nothing wrong with getting ccp to answer what the policy is, even if the answer is we can all do what we want, and suicide ganking is in no way harassment. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 17:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I have never seen anyone repeatedly suicide gank a newbie.
If you can link me a killboard where someone has ganked 6+ Ventures belonging to the same player, then I'll take your comments seriously.
That's the only mining ship a newbie can fly, as even the humble Mining Barges take significantly more training time to sit in than battleships do. We in the New Order certainly don't bother shooting up Ventures often. Thats true, but you can still be in a mining barge around a week after starting. The more important thing than character age is that we don't repeatedly gank the same people unless they keep mining in the same area as they were previously ganked in. We don't single out targets unless they are particularly outspoken, or keep doing stupid things like going afk and not tanking their ship.
Stupid - "The act of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results"
If you get ganked, change tactics. Its as simple as that. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1170
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
In a game where vendettas and bounty hunting are part of advertised gameplay, the bar for valid gameplay to cross over to 'harassment' is necessarily very high. Nothing is harassment until its defined as harassment. If you have to ask if something is harassment, the answer is no until you complain that its happened to you, at which point it might become a yes, subject to a case-by-case review.
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities.
This is anecdote and conjecture. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
15544
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Working as intended
Edit: Ganking is one of the many ways we filter out those not fit for New Eden. attitudes like that filter out far too many paying people from the system of which ccp gets their cash. in my time iv heard of complete game quits and near quits because of such activities. Would you rather we were ganking you in Eve, or in every other MMO you may play, think about it.
Quote:remember.. be nice to newbies.. cause in the end it means more targets for every one..somewhat/mostly on the newbies terms which will raise their enjoyment of the game and make them spend more on eve which the money could/can go back into improving eve for us all We are nice to newbies, especially well informed ones. The ignorant and themeparkers can foxtrot oscar though. |
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 20:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
When a player mines in an untanked Ret while ark and I SG them, it should be a learning opportunity. When that same player comes back into the same system, same belt, same spot, with the same fit and doesn't warp out as soon as I and my crew jump in, I'm very happy to gank them repeatedly until they learn.
OTOH, there are those that seem to learn and either start to watch local an d dock up, or even better, jump in a PvP ship and chase me. Those I will tend to leave alone.
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1690
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 10:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I have never seen anyone repeatedly suicide gank a newbie.
If you can link me a killboard where someone has ganked 6+ Ventures belonging to the same player, then I'll take your comments seriously.
That's the only mining ship a newbie can fly, as even the humble Mining Barges take significantly more training time to sit in than battleships do. We in the New Order certainly don't bother shooting up Ventures often. Thats true, but you can still be in a mining barge around a week after starting. The more important thing than character age is that we don't repeatedly gank the same people unless they keep mining in the same area as they were previously ganked in. We don't single out targets unless they are particularly outspoken, or keep doing stupid things like going afk and not tanking their ship. Stupid - "The act of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results" If you get ganked, change tactics. Its as simple as that.
The skill requirements for a barge are comparable to those of an Assault Frigate, which is not a newbie ship.
The skill requirements for an Exhumer are close to those of a Marauder IIRC. The only ships that need significantly more skilling into are capitals. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |