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Lachra
The Revolving Door Tardis Unlocked
0
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Posted - 2013.12.30 19:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello. I need to vent. CCP, you need to fix POS mechanics as a priority. I've spent the last 3 days (maybe a bit longer but I'm not sure) bouncing emails back and forth to an alliance member who runs a high-sec POS with open alliance access to laboratory jobs for ME/PE. The core of our problems (or his, more specifically) are permissions. I cannot run a lab job despite having an office in the system, proper corp roles, and Scientific Networking. All of our issues seem to be coming down to the fact that there are a myriad of permissions and access hurdles to jump over. The whole mechanic and interface is like it is in Beta. Same for setting up a blueprint job through the Science & Industry screen. It's even difficult to specifically pin down where the issues lie as the interface is so clunky.
How about in one of the next updates shiny ships and blowing stuff up is put to one side for a moment and some attention is actually brought to one of the key mechanics of the universe which, after 10 years, ought to be even a bit polished. Industry is your unique selling point in this game - industry and the player-driven market. Without the industry aspects, this game would unfortunately be an outdated arcade-shooter. The industry and territorial aspects of this game keep it unique on the gaming market as an MMO, so why by Jesus' holy ******* are POS mechanics such a backwater feature?
/vent
Also, for the sake of avoiding this thread from being locked by a fluffy ISD chimp, if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know.
/vent +1 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6005
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I heard that poses only affect a small portion of players. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
8700
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Never before has this been brought up.
Now that it has, im sure CCP will be on it Soon. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
89
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
PoSes aren't the best :l
Two things i hate most, Giving someone access to one(or trying to), and moving one(or setting one up) |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1534
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
SoonGäó
And when I say "SoonGäó" I mean after the current 5 year "Roadmap" is complete...
Don't hold your breath... ... |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
393
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
You might want to edit that second part of your post out if you don't want this locked.
Yes setting up a POS is a pain. However you do know that a revamp in the POS system is in the works.
PoS reworking
CCP Fozie might have some other info else where on newer dev blogs. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1059
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I heard that poses only affect a small portion of players.
And I wonder why that is .
Yes, I raged when I saw that infamous comment.
Lachra wrote: Also, for the sake of avoiding this thread from being locked by [comment redacted] if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know.
Get a nullified t3 or covops frig and go to a certain NPC nullsec region that is littered with stations and conveniently adjacent to empire. If you're halfway competent in flying either ship then the relatively high prevalence of pvpers and campers won't really bother you. You'll get your research done. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Lachra
The Revolving Door Tardis Unlocked
0
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:However you do know that a revamp in the POS system is in the works.
Ofc. Everything is always "in the works" isn't it? CCP is rapidly becoming South Park's parody of George R R Martin in the MMO world: "The dragons and zombies are coming! And when they get here, they're gonna be great, I promise!" |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
68
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
The code is too old and CCP is likely not going to try to repair it. they may be able to salvage a few things, but all the new deploy-able structure they are putting in are all using new code. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4768
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I heard that poses only affect a small portion of players.
Yup, #smallportion indeed.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1015
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:You might want to edit that second part of your post out if you don't want this locked. Yes setting up a POS is a pain. However you do know that a revamp in the POS system is in the works. PoS reworkingCCP Fozie might have some other info else where on newer dev blogs.
Three years ago WIS "was in the works".....
CCP, trading shiny pictures for playability since 2003.. EvE, a cutting edge game. The only game to provide Matrix style gameplay for the masses! (trouble is, most people don't have 9 hours to waste on a one hour fight.) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6009
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 00:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:You might want to edit that second part of your post out if you don't want this locked. Yes setting up a POS is a pain. However you do know that a revamp in the POS system is in the works. PoS reworkingCCP Fozie might have some other info else where on newer dev blogs. Three years ago WIS "was in the works"..... So when they revamp the pos, our graphics cards will melt and tons of people will rage about it? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
984
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Posted - 2013.12.31 00:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lachra wrote:Hello. I need to vent. CCP, you need to fix POS mechanics as a priority. I've spent the last 3 days (maybe a bit longer but I'm not sure) bouncing emails back and forth to an alliance member who runs a high-sec POS with open alliance access to laboratory jobs for ME/PE. The core of our problems (or his, more specifically) are permissions.
From the view of a POS operator, this looks to be the truth.
In reality it's not actually about permissions and more down to Baby Jesus and his flowing tears.
The problem is that the current POS and to large extent Corporation management code is not in a state where anyone can fix much without putting in a serious amount of work recoding a lot of stuff that was written in a hurry to provide functionality that wasn't fully planned.
As with many other 'backend' changes it's not possible to deliver all of in one, or even two, expansions.
There are several hints that such recoding has been going on for some time, but it'll take a bit more before the new foundation is complete enough for any serious changes to actually be seen by us having to use the current frontends.
So while I spend a lot of my time in Eve struggling with current reincarnation of POS and Corporation code, and a lot of time swearing over it, I've haven't given up yet.
I think that it will be better, soon, as in a year or two ;)
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
1413
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Posted - 2013.12.31 01:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bah, who needs POS anyway ? Not like they do anything useful, and when they are hungry they squak and cry like newborns looking for their mama at 3am.
Can't have a proper Apocalypse without "The Man", Johnny Cash. -áTrue story.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4768
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 03:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:The code is too old and CCP is likely not going to try to repair it. they may be able to salvage a few things, but all the new deploy-able structure they are putting in are all using new code.
And then they'll run into the same problems the current POS code has: roles only apply within corporations, and you can't easily extend roles to alliances or third parties based on standings. For a POS revamp to be useful to me, I need to be able to rent out all my activity lines to third parties based on standings or corp/alliance membership.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Thead Enco
III Legion
36
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Posted - 2013.12.31 05:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lachra wrote:Hello. I need to vent. CCP, you need to fix POS mechanics as a priority. I've spent the last 3 days (maybe a bit longer but I'm not sure) bouncing emails back and forth to an alliance member who runs a high-sec POS with open alliance access to laboratory jobs for ME/PE. The core of our problems (or his, more specifically) are permissions. I cannot run a lab job despite having an office in the system, proper corp roles, and Scientific Networking. All of our issues seem to be coming down to the fact that there are a myriad of permissions and access hurdles to jump over. The whole mechanic and interface is like it is in Beta. Same for setting up a blueprint job through the Science & Industry screen. It's even difficult to specifically pin down where the issues lie as the interface is so clunky.
How about in one of the next updates shiny ships and blowing stuff up is put to one side for a moment and some attention is actually brought to one of the key mechanics of the universe which, after 10 years, ought to be even a bit polished. Industry is your unique selling point in this game - industry and the player-driven market. Without the industry aspects, this game would unfortunately be an outdated arcade-shooter. The industry and territorial aspects of this game keep it unique on the gaming market as an MMO, so why by Jesus' holy ******* are POS mechanics such a backwater feature?
/vent
Also, for the sake of avoiding this thread from being locked by a fluffy ISD chimp, if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know.
/vent +1
Scientists will find the cure for all forms of cancer inflicted on humanity long before CCP will ever look at fixing POS's.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6010
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 07:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Lachra wrote:Hello. I need to vent. CCP, you need to fix POS mechanics as a priority. I've spent the last 3 days (maybe a bit longer but I'm not sure) bouncing emails back and forth to an alliance member who runs a high-sec POS with open alliance access to laboratory jobs for ME/PE. The core of our problems (or his, more specifically) are permissions. I cannot run a lab job despite having an office in the system, proper corp roles, and Scientific Networking. All of our issues seem to be coming down to the fact that there are a myriad of permissions and access hurdles to jump over. The whole mechanic and interface is like it is in Beta. Same for setting up a blueprint job through the Science & Industry screen. It's even difficult to specifically pin down where the issues lie as the interface is so clunky.
How about in one of the next updates shiny ships and blowing stuff up is put to one side for a moment and some attention is actually brought to one of the key mechanics of the universe which, after 10 years, ought to be even a bit polished. Industry is your unique selling point in this game - industry and the player-driven market. Without the industry aspects, this game would unfortunately be an outdated arcade-shooter. The industry and territorial aspects of this game keep it unique on the gaming market as an MMO, so why by Jesus' holy ******* are POS mechanics such a backwater feature?
/vent
Also, for the sake of avoiding this thread from being locked by a fluffy ISD chimp, if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know.
/vent +1 Scientists will find the cure for all forms of cancer inflicted on humanity long before CCP will ever look at fixing POS's. look at.... has happened, I'm sure.
Actual fixing, yeah nope ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
13
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Posted - 2013.12.31 11:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Did you set the permissions on the actual labs themselves in space(have to be at the pos and open the permission tab) ? thats usually the first place to look , second is timing issues, ie sometimes waiting until a downtime has passed can fix some permission cludges. |
brinelan
The Flying Dead Insidious Empire
139
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Posted - 2013.12.31 15:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
You know those new mobile deployable structures that were released in Rubicon? Those are using the new pos code. |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1957
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 15:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
But the pos revamp took place in 2008 ... not ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.12.31 16:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
brinelan wrote:You know those new mobile deployable structures that were released in Rubicon? Those are using the new pos code. Please no. =( |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
163
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Posted - 2013.12.31 16:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
I find POS's to be very limited and overly complicated. I wanted to be a pos gunner once. The skills are stupid and the pos still may not have a chance. Like I said before we need new content, this is dry. |
ElQuirko
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
3151
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 16:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lachra wrote:...fluffy ISD chimp, if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know. In my experience, disclaimers never work. And "fluffy ISD chimp" is a red rag to a bull. Dodixie > Hek |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 18:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Usually, when people open a thread asking CCP to change something they have been saying they will do since time began I tell them to get in line. Except in this instance, I think POSes really are at the front of the line.
I know that CCP are saying they want to replace POSes entirely with a new system, which these new mobile structures are the start off. Paint me a sceptic but I can't see these structures even vaguely approaching the functionality of a POS any time in the near or distant future. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
392
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 18:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP has been presented with a working system to repair POS by the CSM. This system was endorsed by the majority of players asked, and has been a fixture of the Ideas and Suggestions forum. So far, despite having been originally pitched in 2006, it has not gotten any further. AFAIK it has been asked about by every CSM so far.
So far, no sign of Modular POS has been spotted.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Marsha Mallow
30
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 23:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lachra wrote:CCP, you need to fix POS mechanics as a priority.
if anyone has any advice on my issue (through experience, not speculation smartasses!) please post and let me know. Something worth ranting about for a change on GD :P Even if it has to be completely redesigned and takes a year or two, anything would be better than the eye-gouging mechanics currently in place. I think the most annoying thing is the apparent disdain CCP has for this topic.
Been a while since I had to do this, but I believe you need to manually select the line via the S&I interface > right click the line > assign access via, i think restriction masks(?). I'm not sure if you need to be in space to do it. It's worth numbering or alphebetising the labs sequentially for ease before you start. You can either select the lab and change the access mask for all types (ME/PE) or select type ME through the interface then run through the labs and do them all at once, followed by PE. If you are assigning an ISK value for instal job/research per hour be careful the ISK value has been assigned - or you may find as I did a pocket of labs with no ISK assigned. After a year, woops. Best way to check this is take a break, then relog an alt within the same corp with director level roles and manually check each line is correct. You don't need to assign roles to members within an alliance btw, provided the restrictions are set to alliance use*. If you are still struggling or need any further help drop me a mail and I'll get online and try talk you through it.
I tore all of my POS down and unsubbed for 6 months after five years of POS headaches and two running a large research alliance. Defending them is one thing, and something you accept, prepare for and have to be around to monitor. Being organised with fuel is another. But settup and reconfig is pure torture. I wouldn't subject paid employees (even if I detested them) to such a crap system, so I'm really not sure why it exists in a game supposedly played for fun. Until at the least a commitment is made by CCP to amend this, I wont be touching POS again. Which is a shame as I actually enjoyed some elements, and ran it as a low key community service rather than an ISK venture; ie nominal fees offset by revenue made from copying/invention. This really needs a look as shared POS are an interesting way in highsec of drawing solo players into a more interractive environment, and something which arguably should be encouraged and facilitated. That's not even touching on other POS users, god help alliance level logistics guys or anyone in a wormhole.
* Actually I should rephrase that. You can't set roles at alliance level, you can only make the labs available and visible. Another thing to check as a user is that you have your S&I setting actually showing alliance level labs, it's somewhere on the interface near the middle I think. - |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
808
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Realy? you sure? no way this is broken...... You must be trolling.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
609
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lachra wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:However you do know that a revamp in the POS system is in the works. Ofc. Everything is always "in the works" isn't it? CCP is rapidly becoming South Park's parody of George R R Martin in the MMO world: "The dragons and zombies are coming! And when they get here, they're gonna be great, I promise!"
I don't think anyone thinks they'll be great.
The real problems is that this code includes corp hangers in stations and locked down assets that don't really -belong- to an individual so the actual roll out of a replacement system would be unbelievably tedious and would probably continue to bite CCP for a year after it was done.
Even a simple presumption like an asset screwup in migrating the database to the new system can't necessarily be resolved by "give it to a director" or any simple policy other than a "perfect" migration.
Why "start job" implies "global" stop job permission beats me.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6036
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Posted - 2014.01.02 04:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Realy? you sure? no way this is broken...... You must be trolling.
pos roles and the like are terrible
So much so most alliances use altcorps if anyone wants to set up a pos. I think one of our logistics directors said you only needed two roles to drop all our sov or something. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
121
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Posted - 2014.01.02 04:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
I think the POS code must be a P.O.S. When ever they seem to come close to making useful changes they always seem to make a 180 and come up with 10 reasons not to do it.
Well they did give us a few small useful changes, but a real access control list sure would be nice (among many other things) damn it is hard to delete my signature |
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