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Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:57:00 -
[241] - Quote
Changing a pretty big game mechanic because a few thousand people are loosing a war when it would impact on EVERY player is surely a great business model to follow.
3000 > rest of eve population - CCP doesn't have favourite's Dont just think outside the box, Live outside of it... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9956
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:07:00 -
[242] - Quote
all in all they're doing a pretty bad job w/r/t achieving their coalition's ~prime directive~ if they call that "winning" Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8094
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:07:00 -
[243] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Can't you stay over there, with the kids who don't know what they're talking about? Why should he? He's making as much sense as you are. Maybe you need to stand in the corner. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1657
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:14:00 -
[244] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Charlie Firpol wrote:Use 500 Megas then?
Still not enough and we would be losing one mega every cycle or two of the sentry drones. If it was as simple as throwing a few hundred mega at the problem we wouldn't be working on getting dreads that do have the firepower to alpha them
still no one has explained why you should only need sub capitals to fight a sov war?
as i recall the standard for cfc is out blob with sub caps and as soon as the other side gives up they break out the super caps and take out all the sov stuff...
goons say caps should need sub caps for a fleet fight so why does this not work backwards and mean that sub caps needs caps to fight a sov war?
the thing is the cfc does not want to use caps because they are not confident enough to use them and then complain about game mechanics.
the best part is the cfc decided to participate in this war they chose to become members of it... if they wanted they could go home and defend thier space and use boots to do it... but yet they choose to go on the offensive and then complain that the other side is using capitals to defend stuff that takes capitals to kill... FML There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6083
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Posted - 2014.01.04 22:08:00 -
[245] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Can't you stay over there, with the kids who don't know what they're talking about? Why should he? He's making as much sense as you are. Maybe you need to stand in the corner. This whole forum is "the corner" ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6083
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Posted - 2014.01.04 22:08:00 -
[246] - Quote
Andski wrote:all in all they're doing a pretty bad job w/r/t achieving their coalition's ~prime directive~ if they call that "winning" Wait wait, I thought we were ~done for~ because of test.
Is test part of n3 ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8096
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Posted - 2014.01.04 22:17:00 -
[247] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:still no one has explained why you should only need sub capitals to fight a sov war? Nobody said anything of the sort. The only requirement should be that you shouldn't require supercapitals to fight a sov war, since that could potentially lock non-sov-holders out of sov entirely. As it is now, this is the case, although supercapitals tend to make sov war a lot easier as long as you're not stupid with them.
MeBiatch wrote:the best part is the cfc decided to participate in this war they chose to become members of it... if they wanted they could go home and defend thier space and use boots to do it... but yet they choose to go on the offensive and then complain that the other side is using capitals to defend stuff that takes capitals to kill... FML We've used boots before. We've seen boots used before. Nobody quite realized how overpowered they were until N3PL started spamming several hundred of them per battle. Kind of like how a lone titan was never really that powerful, but fleets of tracking titans massacred everything in their path with absolute impunity. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6083
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 22:29:00 -
[248] - Quote
remote aoe doomsday titans
much cost
so balanced
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1353
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Posted - 2014.01.05 01:31:00 -
[249] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Once again, while the blob-seccer's whinge, the bulk of Eve cares not one whit about the issues a tiny minority of the player base has, especially since it is self-inflicted.
Where we do care is when your whining and CCP caving to your demands affects gameplay for the majority of the playerbase.
But it is a fait accompli.
goons batphone CCP, and CCP does what is demanded of them by goons. Been that way for a long time now.
This would be a so much more dynamic game if CCP got its collective head of its ass and realized that catering to the tiny minority in this game is terrible business sense, then ignored their crying, dismantled the game mechanics and meta that created this mess in the first place, and re-created null sec mechanics that precluded any giant blue blankets. Absolutely. Unfortunately since the CSM election process is stacked to ensure that only the alliances are represented - you and I will never likely get to meet and talk to a dev face to face while the alliance CSM reps get free flights to Iceland, sit down at CCP HQ to recommend 'changes'... the alliances want.
I think what Baltec understands but pretends he doesn't is 'A' counter to slow cats (capitals) is dreads (capitals) its not the only counter. Another is subcapitals but of course being subcapitals you need a lot more vs an archon. If 300 is not enough, 400 is not enough, adding more will eventually be 'enough'. That's how it works. So stop whining and add more.
Mega's and bombers... bombers add more to that 13 seconds. They wipe sentries or cause redeployment, while inflicting damage and masking which archon is being primaried.
But really, the reason capitals exist is to kill capitals, the fact GS is too scared to drop caps is not a very good excuse to nerf a doctrine that another group is currently using with good effect. You cannot nerf that during a war. Before or afterwards fine. GS should have been smarter, they knew about slowcats before they started, they knew they would be used. Why punish someone else for GS tactical errors?
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
1024
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:45:00 -
[250] - Quote
There's a lot of people in this thread who make me laugh, as their arguments towards an idea of what they think EVE should be about is just as bias as anyone they are arguing against, but refuse to see it.
The people on the "N3/NCDot/PL Side" of the debate basically say there's not a problem with anything at all and they think it's fine for 300 guys to be easily be able to take on about 600 other guys and win. Their arguments for this are always the same, counters that don't exist (or allegedly do exist, but refuse to explain what they are) or counters that are ridiculous (Why don't you just bring 600 Battleships into a node that keeps crashing every time you get 600 people into it?) or even just think it's fine due to cash/SP investment in capital ships.
What it boils down to is they don't like the fact the CFC has grown in size so large that no other single entity in the game can stand up to it in terms of numbers. I'm not saying every fight in the history of EVE has to be won on numbers, but generally if you're outnumbered 2:1 you should get your arse kicked.
The counter to capitals ships is, of course, capital ships according to these people. So they don't want a world where the numerical superiority of subcaps wins, but instead want a world where the numerical superiority of capitals win.
Unless you're actually in NCDot/N3/PL I struggle to see why you would want their playstyle to triumph. The CFC is held together by a good leadership team within GSF and across the CFC alliances, and that is what provides it it's strength (numbers). The moment those links start breaking and falling apart, the whole thing will become a free for all. It may take a while but it will probably happen some day.
The more "elite" view of the world though means anyone not already in the lead will get left well behind, the rental income from NCdot, PL and N3 will keep them well ahead of the rest of the galaxy in terms of capital and super capital numbers, and no-one will be able to challenge them. It would take outside intervention from CCP to change that balance.
Personally if I were on the fences if I had to pick between one group or the other dominating nullsec politics I'd pick the one that could fall apart if everyone starts arguing amongst themselves rather than the ones that will retain their position indefinitely through bizarre mechanics. I've played a game before where players were able to "level up" to infinite levels and the distance over a few years of playing they could put between themselves and the starting players was so huge it killed any real PvP action in the game. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6085
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:52:00 -
[251] - Quote
You're just a goon pet or something.
progodlegend is salvation for the dying EvE online. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6085
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 02:55:00 -
[252] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:The counter to capitals ships is, of course, capital ships according to these people. So they don't want a world where the numerical superiority of subcaps wins, but instead want a world where the numerical superiority of capitals win. So basically, the ones blobbing more caps.
It's a good thing the omegafleet concept has utterly failed and will be the last thing blobbers like us try before being stamped out by a wrecking ball of supercapitals ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8100
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:11:00 -
[253] - Quote
I like this "CCP shouldn't do rebalancing during wars" argument. Because alliances totally wouldn't start wars just to prevent CCP from nerfing things. My EVE Videos |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6085
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:13:00 -
[254] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I like this "CCP shouldn't do rebalancing during wars" argument. Because alliances totally wouldn't start wars just to prevent CCP from nerfing things. 1. Find overpowered doctrine 2. Keep a war active by shooting CVA or someone endlessly 3. Profit :) ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1657
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:36:00 -
[255] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:There's a lot of people in this thread who make me laugh, as their arguments towards an idea of what they think EVE should be about is just as bias as anyone they are arguing against, but refuse to see it.
The people on the "N3/NCDot/PL Side" of the debate basically say there's not a problem with anything at all and they think it's fine for 300 guys to be easily be able to take on about 600 other guys and win. Their arguments for this are always the same, counters that don't exist (or allegedly do exist, but refuse to explain what they are) or counters that are ridiculous (Why don't you just bring 600 Battleships into a node that keeps crashing every time you get 600 people into it?) or even just think it's fine due to cash/SP investment in capital ships.
What it boils down to is they don't like the fact the CFC has grown in size so large that no other single entity in the game can stand up to it in terms of numbers. I'm not saying every fight in the history of EVE has to be won on numbers, but generally if you're outnumbered 2:1 you should get your arse kicked.
The counter to capitals ships is, of course, capital ships according to these people. So they don't want a world where the numerical superiority of subcaps wins, but instead want a world where the numerical superiority of capitals win.
Unless you're actually in NCDot/N3/PL I struggle to see why you would want their playstyle to triumph. The CFC is held together by a good leadership team within GSF and across the CFC alliances, and that is what provides it it's strength (numbers). The moment those links start breaking and falling apart, the whole thing will become a free for all. It may take a while but it will probably happen some day.
The more "elite" view of the world though means anyone not already in the lead will get left well behind, the rental income from NCdot, PL and N3 will keep them well ahead of the rest of the galaxy in terms of capital and super capital numbers, and no-one will be able to challenge them. It would take outside intervention from CCP to change that balance.
Personally if I were on the fences if I had to pick between one group or the other dominating nullsec politics I'd pick the one that could fall apart if everyone starts arguing amongst themselves rather than the ones that will retain their position indefinitely through bizarre mechanics. I've played a game before where players were able to "level up" to infinite levels and the distance over a few years of playing they could put between themselves and the starting players was so huge it killed any real PvP action in the game.
So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8100
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:46:00 -
[256] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said. My EVE Videos |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1657
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:13:00 -
[257] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said.
Actually he did
Quote:The people on the "N3/NCDot/PL Side" of the debate basically say there's not a problem with anything at all and they think it's fine for 300 guys to be easily be able to take on about 600 other guys and win
600 rifters vs 300 bs is the same as 600 bs vd 300 caps There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1356
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:14:00 -
[258] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said. Numbers can and will defeat slowcats. Goons murdered Test with 2000 pilots to kick them out of fountain. Pretending you couldn't field 600 megathrons to beat 300 Archons is bullshite. Or how about megas and dreads or supers, or titans. Stop lying, stop being afraid of losses, you don't win every war through decisive victories, some wars need to be fought through attrition.
The Russians beat a superior force in WW2 with numbers, they just had to take losses (massive ones), but they did win. Same strategy will work here. Maybe you won't get decisive victories in one battle but it's going to be lot easier to replace subcaps than it'll be to replace carriers.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6086
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 04:20:00 -
[259] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said. 600 rifters huh... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
610
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:08:00 -
[260] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said. Numbers can and will defeat slowcats. Goons murdered Test with 2000 pilots to kick them out of fountain. Pretending you couldn't field 600 megathrons to beat 300 Archons is bullshite. Or how about megas and dreads or supers, or titans. Stop lying, stop being afraid of losses, you don't win every war through decisive victories, some wars need to be fought through attrition. The Russians beat a superior force in WW2 with numbers, they just had to take losses (massive ones), but they did win. Same strategy will work here. Maybe you won't get decisive victories in one battle but it's going to be lot easier to replace subcaps than it'll be to replace carriers.
I think the number is 1200 megas to be honest. Archons have 4m+ buffers and a big F1 fleet locking the archon will let the pilot know its time to remove the DDAs and add and overheat resists. (the mega is the wrong boat for defeating slowcats).
Archons move more effectively between non cyno jammed systems than megas do as well - megas have to retreat to the bridging titan or gate themselves - and gating a big fleet just mires the fleet in TIDI as you'll be on unreinforced nodes, ie battleship fleets are terrible at out moving cap fleets. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6086
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:32:00 -
[261] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons? Yeah, I'm sure that's what he actually said. Numbers can and will defeat slowcats. Goons murdered Test with 2000 pilots to kick them out of fountain. Pretending you couldn't field 600 megathrons to beat 300 Archons is bullshite. Or how about megas and dreads or supers, or titans. Stop lying, stop being afraid of losses, you don't win every war through decisive victories, some wars need to be fought through attrition. The Russians beat a superior force in WW2 with numbers, they just had to take losses (massive ones), but they did win. Same strategy will work here. Maybe you won't get decisive victories in one battle but it's going to be lot easier to replace subcaps than it'll be to replace carriers. I think the number is 1200 megas to be honest. Archons have 4m+ buffers and a big F1 fleet locking the archon will let the pilot know its time to remove the DDAs and add and overheat resists. (the mega is the wrong boat for defeating slowcats). Archons move more effectively between non cyno jammed systems than megas do as well - megas have to retreat to the bridging titan or gate themselves - and gating a big fleet just mires the fleet in TIDI as you'll be on unreinforced nodes, ie battleship fleets are terrible at out moving cap fleets. more goon tears... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Katran Luftschreck
Stillwater Corporation
2139
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 05:40:00 -
[262] - Quote
Topic thread should have read "Carriers getting nerfed?"
I've seen nothing in here that will effect the average Dominix mission runner in any way. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6086
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 05:42:00 -
[263] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Topic thread should have read "Carriers getting nerfed?"
I've seen nothing in here that will effect the average Dominix mission runner in any way. An inaccurate thread title in General Discussion?
How will we live this one down ... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Cari Cullejen
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
50
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:05:00 -
[264] - Quote
The problem doesn't seem to be sentries. It's the spider tanking archon's that CFC can't kill without fielding supers. The CFC would like a way beat this wall of archons without but every idea won't work or is damn near impossible (e.i. fielding 400 megathrons, this is improbable because fights rarely occur in the system either fleets planned for meaning the system would usually be TiDi'd to ****). N3 claim they are skilled because they have found a tactic that can withstand such a large number of subcaps even though fights usually end with little to no N3 subcaps on field and blobs of archons sitting stationary within bubbles repping each other. CFC can counter with supers but N3 has the biggest collection of supers in the game and would counter in kind. CFC is stupid for not fielding supers against a bigger probably more skilled group of supers...
Summary: the problem is CFC, and CFC should die because it's big and no one like the big guys
I know how it feels to be hated by people who hate you for no other real reason but because you are big, I'm an American. What are you looking for here? Read the post! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8110
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 11:11:00 -
[265] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:I know how it feels to be hated by people who hate you for no other real reason but because you are big, I'm an American. Let's not start this. People dislike or hate us for plenty of reasons and some of them make a lot more sense than that. Bringing real life politics into the thread is going to degrade the discussion really fast. My EVE Videos |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2938
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:32:00 -
[266] - Quote
Cari Cullejen wrote:I know how it feels to be hated by people who hate you for no other real reason but because you are big, I'm an American. [insert fat joke here] Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:40:00 -
[267] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Topic thread should have read "Carriers getting nerfed?"
I've seen nothing in here that will effect the average Dominix mission runner in any way.
true but what if you rat anomalies with several alts all in carriers ...
:D
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Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
194
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Posted - 2014.01.05 12:50:00 -
[268] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons?
They actually think 600 rifters should beat 300 carriers.
Whoever has more ships in the system should automatically win the fight.
Anything besides this means the game has become "carriers online." |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9957
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Posted - 2014.01.05 12:57:00 -
[269] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:So you think 600 rifters should beat 300 megathrons?
they absolutely can unless the megathron fleet is accompanied by logistics, webbing lokis and tacklers Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8114
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 13:23:00 -
[270] - Quote
You can say what you want about us being blobbers, but Grath's repeated insistence about needing capitals to kill capitals ultimately comes down to one thing: he wants to turn EVE into "whoever has the most titans wins". My EVE Videos |
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