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Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
I am a FW pilot of Amarr. Lately there have been minmatar FW pilots who wait at the undock of the Amarr home system station and pop any Amarr characters that undock.
Initially the method was to just keep warping around outrunning faction police while popping players with a destroyer that undock. Allow me to be blunt and say that this is incredibly stupid. May I ask if this is the intent of the FW Dev team? I find it hard to believe that logically a Minmatar Faction Warfare player that just be allowed to fly around in the Amarr Factions' home system, a system which is 1.0 security and meant to be the captial of the Amarr empire. It does not make any sense whatsoever from a Roleplaying, Faction Warfare, game development or common sense perspective.
I can provide the players name if required. You can easily see that many many kills of this person is on the Amarr system undock.
Most people while undocking are already dealing with game/server lag. Today these same Minmatar FW players upped their manipulation of FW by having an Orca sit there with destroyers ready and a battleship, TFI, waitng on the undock. There were also mutiple ships launching fireworks creating even more lag.
Please do something about this and fix it for all the factions. Its really really atrociously bad gameplay.
We can use mechanics in place already.
1) Perhaps CONCORD can come to an agreement that Faction Warfare pilots are not allowed in HighSec as they present a threat to security of the populace and disrupt trade with their attacks? And make it just like permanent criminal status once you are in a ship (or board a ship in space in HS) and have the usual penalties apply for running away from Concord?
2) FW pilots could just be prevented from using the enemy empires warp gates. If you are my enemy, why would I let you use my gate? However I am not in favour of this second option but from a Roleplaying perspective it does make sense. I only mention this option as I do not see how we can get CONCORD to spawn in time to stop a destroyer popping a frig.
Please fix this ASAP. It is rewarding certain players who are abusing the system of a IMHO badly designed mechanic.
Thank you! |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
144
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Use a no-skill alt to do your shopping for you. No reason to go to any trade hubs with your fw character. Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
382
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
It is easy enough to avoid, and easy to counter. Make an undock bookmark so you can just insta-warp off from the station before the invuln timer wears off. If you're worried about lag, turn down your graphics before undocking.
And if you want to get vengeance, get a fast ship with tackle. Or if they're quick at warping, use a cov ops ship so you can cloak up to them and then tackle. Navy NPCs will do the rest.
And as said above, you can just use a different toon for shopping.
There are problems with FW, but this isn't one of them. It's standard station camping games that happens in any war scenario, not unique to FW, and just as avoidable. |
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shadow Adanza wrote:Use a no-skill alt to do your shopping for you. No reason to go to any trade hubs with your fw character.
You are missing the point of asking for a fix of a bad mechanic |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1952
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not a bad mechanic, |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1483
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Posted - 2014.01.01 16:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
It happens to all sides in FW. Shopping with an alt is an easy way to skip the headache altogether. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch OLD MAN GANG
655
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Posted - 2014.01.01 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is also roleplay reason, militia was formed because empire navies did not have enough forces to protect everything.
So now you signed in militia to help those navies to defend and now you ask navies to help you. Seems that easiest solution is to quit militia, you faction does not need you. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
296
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Posted - 2014.01.01 17:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sasha Vaille wrote:STUFFZ
You did read the disclaimer when you joined faction warfare that you could be atacked anywere at anytime by the opposing faction didnt you????
My answer is HTFU ...... faction police should be removed altogether imo and fw players should be able to kill others in any sec no other place in eve has a constant threat from npcs like fw pilots
TMC Story about this
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.01 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:There is also roleplay reason, militia was formed because empire navies did not have enough forces to protect everything.
So now you signed in militia to help those navies to defend and now you ask navies to help you. Seems that easiest solution is to quit militia, you faction does not need you.
The way these players that I mention are doing it does not make any sense whatsoever and the lengths that are gone to that I pointed out show clearly the lengths that they are going too with the Orca and the fireworks to deliberately cause lag.
Sorry but this is not good game play. If you and the others in this forum can show us with reasoned arguments supporting your point, please go ahead... |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
226
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Posted - 2014.01.01 20:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sasha Vaille wrote: Sorry but this is not good game play. If you and the others in this forum can show us with reasoned arguments supporting your point, please go ahead...
Faction warfare involves your corp getting into a war with every single corp on the opposing militias. Other war decs in Eve have neither side protected by NPCs. Why do you want even more protection ? |
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Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2014.01.01 22:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sasha Vaille wrote:
Sorry but this is not good game play. If you and the others in this forum can show us with reasoned arguments supporting your point, please go ahead...
The way it is today, by joining FW you dedicate exclusively your character to FW and renounce to any other hi-sec activity. |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
206
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Posted - 2014.01.02 01:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Sasha Vaille wrote:
Sorry but this is not good game play. If you and the others in this forum can show us with reasoned arguments supporting your point, please go ahead...
The way it is today, by joining FW you dedicate exclusively your character to FW and renounce to any other hi-sec activity.
No? You just have to be moderately competent at Eve, enough to deal with the stuff that null sec residents deal with every day. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
835
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 02:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
You are part of the militia!
It is also your job to kill the WT's camping your trade hub. The navies have a hard time as it is stretched across the empire.
so grab your ships and a few mates and make their life hell while they camp your hub station.
In over words.
Grow a pair and engage! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yes, it's a terrible mechanic and the only reason it exists is because FW is (and always has been) the bottom of the barrel for priorities at CCP.
The only reason they fixed some of the problems in FW some time ago was because it was impacting markets outside of FW.
Live with it, find ways to work around it. CCP knows all about it and they haven't commented one way or the other because they know they aren't to do anything about it.
We've had FW for a better part of a decade. I can cut off three of my fingers and still count on one hand how many times they've put dev focus on fixing, improving and balancing FW mechanics. "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Stalking Mantis
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
400
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Posted - 2014.01.02 04:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Yes, it's a terrible mechanic and the only reason it exists is because FW is (and always has been) the bottom of the barrel for priorities at CCP.
No the bottom of the barrel for FW priorities are those players that want to be part of an NPC corporation and enjoy 0% tax while they run missions in their Navy Raven in Highsec.
Now if you are legit and looking to use FW for pvp you need to do two things:
1-Kiss highsec goodbye and create a trading-hauler alt. Start slow with T1 haulers then move on up with him/her to frieghters. You will be able to afford it (all the hauling ships you need) and him/her (the alt) if you embrace fw and start showering in lp like you should be doing.
2-Start getting used to the concept of living in lowsec.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:The only reason they fixed some of the problems in FW some time ago was because it was impacting markets outside of FW.
As opposed to now where nothing in FW impacts the markets right?
Welcome to FW. Adapt or be the next one to be in it for a few hours then decide it's not for you. Proud Member of 'The HotPocket' Crew. What It's Like in Militia Chat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzYm3ig7tak |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1169
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Posted - 2014.01.02 10:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
trolling aside: fighting in enemy high-sec is not an easy game. I'm doing this for last 3 weeks and i still fail heavily. - after 10 seconds NPC spawns close to you - few seconds after you get webbed and start to receive damage - when bigger NPC lock you you get damped and heavily neuted
I've tried to tank caldari FW NPC in Phobos, 1 neuting cycle makes my capacitor empty. It looks like you need something bigger to have proper fight against NPC+player (we don't speak about neutral logi support)
Yesterday we tried to kill 1 rupture with Talos and Vexor. My Vexor got empty of capacitor pretty fast then i was just sitting duck waiting for death. Talos got killed even faster. And most damage in my lossmail came from NPC.
On the other hang evading enemy FW camps is easy: - make 2 bookmarks: dock + insta-undock and they can't get you on undock (unless you got lag) - don't autopilot - use neutral couriers, they are cheap and free your time for actual game play
As other people already mentioned: FW is WAR. You enlisted to be militia member so you agree to be target EVERYWHERE. Just learn to deal with it and have fun! The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1995
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Posted - 2014.01.02 11:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
High sec? Blegh.. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch OLD MAN GANG
656
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Posted - 2014.01.02 12:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sasha Vaille wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:There is also roleplay reason, militia was formed because empire navies did not have enough forces to protect everything.
So now you signed in militia to help those navies to defend and now you ask navies to help you. Seems that easiest solution is to quit militia, you faction does not need you. The way these players that I mention are doing it does not make any sense whatsoever and the lengths that are gone to that I pointed out show clearly the lengths that they are going too with the Orca and the fireworks to deliberately cause lag. Sorry but this is not good game play. If you and the others in this forum can show us with reasoned arguments supporting your point, please go ahead...
It is EVE, there is game mechanics and then there is people who know those mechanics and then they use those mechanics to get advantage that can seem to be unfair and game braking but it hardly is against rules until CCP say so.
I do not believe that they are causing so much lag that it do matter anything in bigger scale, if they do cause lag CCP can ban then for braking eula. Maybe your hardware is just outdated.
Also if you are in FW you should not be victim in highsec, you should know how to pvp. If you have problems in that area i recommend to join some corp/alliance who can teach basics.
Personally i like that there is quite much possibilities in EVE to do complex things like using orca etc , it makes this game as good as it is. |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2014.01.02 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Yes, it's a terrible mechanic and the only reason it exists is because FW is (and always has been) the bottom of the barrel for priorities at CCP. No the bottom of the barrel for FW priorities are those players that want to be part of an NPC corporation and enjoy 0% tax while they run missions in their Navy Raven in Highsec. Now if you are legit and looking to use FW for pvp you need to do two things: 1-Kiss highsec goodbye and create a trading-hauler alt. Start slow with T1 haulers then move on up with him/her to frieghters. You will be able to afford it (all the hauling ships you need) and him/her (the alt) if you embrace fw and start showering in lp like you should be doing. 2-Start getting used to the concept of living in lowsec. Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:The only reason they fixed some of the problems in FW some time ago was because it was impacting markets outside of FW. As opposed to now where nothing in FW impacts the markets right? Welcome to FW. Adapt or be the next one to be in it for a few hours then decide it's not for you.
I've been in FW (and Eve itself) since the beginning. Who are you again?
Your "advise" is cute. It's also repetitive and has brought nothing to the discussion those above you haven't already said.
Repeating an opinion doesn't equivocate consensus, and "use an alt" is no excuse for crap game mechanics.
There has been no feature or CCP dev comment in the history of ever to suggest that high sec police should be able to be shaken by a pilot never to spawn again.
Articulate your argument all you want. You're defending a broken mechanic and trying to sell it as some HTFU feature. You aren't witty nor insightful, just wrong.
Wrong wrong wrong. "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Garric Shadowbane
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
2
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Posted - 2014.01.02 15:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
http://themittani.com/features/hitting-home-highsec-hunting-fw
Just because you are in High-sec. Does not mean you are safe. Use an alt, or leave fw. |
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
488
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Posted - 2014.01.02 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
By docking in Jita you have already killed your soul. |
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.02 16:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Just an observation. Why do people keep quoting themittani.com as if its' meant to be an authority for the design, mechanics and direction of the game? |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
620
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Posted - 2014.01.02 16:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well it's a decent article describing the mechanics behind what you obviously do not understand, FW and high sec. You should probably read it. It's okay to be an idiot, but at least be an informed idiot.
Sasha Vaille wrote:Just an observation. Why do people keep quoting themittani.com as if its' meant to be an authority for the design, mechanics and direction of the game?
E.A.D
|
Sasha Vaille
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Well it's a decent article describing the mechanics behind what you obviously do not understand, FW and high sec. You should probably read it. It's okay to be an idiot, but at least be an informed idiot. Sasha Vaille wrote:Just an observation. Why do people keep quoting themittani.com as if its' meant to be an authority for the design, mechanics and direction of the game?
Thank you for the insults, Happy New Year too you too! |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2014.01.02 16:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Garric Shadowbane wrote:http://themittani.com/features/hitting-home-highsec-hunting-fw
Just because you are in High-sec. Does not mean you are safe. Use an alt, or leave fw.
Who said anything about being safe?
Again, quit trying to defend broken mechanics. The title of the thread is "was this intended by the devs"
Unless you have a quote from a dev you're not really providing any proof of anything.
and lol mittani fanboys. lolololol
"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
384
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Repeating an opinion doesn't equivocate consensus, and "use an alt" is no excuse for crap game mechanics.
A game mechanic is not crap just because you died to it.
Quote:There has been no feature or CCP dev comment in the history of ever to suggest that high sec police should be able to be shaken by a pilot never to spawn again.
They do spawn again. Everytime an enemy player lands, navy NPCs will shortly arrive. Get tackle on that player and the Navy will be able to fire on them with impunity.
Quote:Articulate your argument all you want. You're defending a broken mechanic and trying to sell it as some HTFU feature. You aren't witty nor insightful, just wrong.
It is not broken, because it is working as intended.
These are the two disclaimers you agreed to when joining factional warfare:
"You will be at war with enemy players enlisted in Factional Warfare and thus a valid target everywhere, including high-security space"
"Entering enemy-controlled high-security space will cause you to be attacked by opposing Navy Military forces"
Note that it says 'attacked by' opposing military forces. Not destroyed by. Navy Military forces are not CONCORD.
Station camping is not unique to FW. It happens to anyone in a war dec, low sec, nullsec, and so on. Militia players already have more protection from enemy station campers than most of those others. And even without the protection, it is very easy to evade. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
150
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Posted - 2014.01.02 17:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
"Was this intended by the Devs that made Faction Warfare?" - yes BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
269
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 17:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
The whine is strong with this one. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1292
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 17:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
The developers explicitly defined how the faction navy responds to hostile FW players and made the faction navy response scale with security level. They could very easily have decided that entering enemy hisec would spawn CONCORD, and yet they did not.
Additionally, the warning ingame tells you that you can be attacked by enemy militia anywhere - it is quite explicit about that.
So, I'm not sure why this is in question. Of course it was designed that way. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1001
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sasha Vaille wrote: 1) Perhaps CONCORD can come to an agreement that Faction Warfare pilots are not allowed in HighSec as they present a threat to security of the populace and disrupt trade with their attacks? And make it just like permanent criminal status once you are in a ship (or board a ship in space in HS) and have the usual penalties apply for running away from Concord?
It's a lagal war, sanctioned by Concord. Why should they Intrude? It's already. And you joined it. You're part of a militia, should be up to you to defend your empire capital system and undocking point against enemies.
And having the navy NPC is already a bonus, normal wardecs don't have it.
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