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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18721
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:26:00 -
[331] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:And just to know, could you tell me what is the maximum usable range of large blasters ? Knowing that I prepare my heart to sink inside my chest... Depends on the ship (and what you define as GÇ£usableGÇ¥). They can do nasty things at ~50km if you fit (and load) for it. Rails will happily brutalise things at 100k+ (even with shorter-range ammo), going to the full 250km if you need to, which admittedly you rarely do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:31:00 -
[332] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote:And just to know, could you tell me what is the maximum usable range of large blasters ? Knowing that I prepare my heart to sink inside my chest... Depends on the ship (and what you define as GÇ£usableGÇ¥). They can do nasty things at ~50km if you fit (and load) for it. Rails will happily brutalise things at 100k+ (even with shorter-range ammo), going to the full 250km if you need to, which admittedly you rarely do.
Unless you need to murder many thousands of slowcat drones while you keep them bubbled till downtime. Then you get a Tornado, or a Naga and wait for the other side's morale to die. |
Deunan Tenephais
62
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:54:00 -
[333] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote:And just to know, could you tell me what is the maximum usable range of large blasters ? Knowing that I prepare my heart to sink inside my chest... Depends on the ship (and what you define as GÇ£usableGÇ¥). They can do nasty things at ~50km if you fit (and load) for it. Rails will happily brutalise things at 100k+ (even with shorter-range ammo), going to the full 250km if you need to, which admittedly you rarely do. 50 kilometers with the longest range ammos I guess, hey...
Ok, thanks for the infos all, I will see if a guns/drones hyperion is doable and worth it. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9732
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:58:00 -
[334] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote: And just to know, could you tell me what is the maximum usable range of large blasters ? Knowing that I prepare my heart to sink inside my chest...
100km on a kronos is the max
70km on a kronos is downright deadly to frigates, cruiser and BCs and will hurt most BS badly
40km is max effective range on most megathron hulls but the rokh will hit 50+
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
489
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Posted - 2014.01.04 14:23:00 -
[335] - Quote
I see a lot of but, if's and maybe's in this thread.
tldr: The Battleship hull is a fail whale.
Longer version, back when the Battleship was added, it had a purpose. Back when 20K login was a CCP wet dream and being insta-blapped by 600 ships wasn't happening as standard practice. That was a very long time ago and now, the BS has become outmoded. It's no longer a dps hitpoint wall. Now it's a dps kite wall. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9732
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Posted - 2014.01.04 15:06:00 -
[336] - Quote
Ioci wrote:I see a lot of but, if's and maybe's in this thread.
tldr: The Battleship hull is a fail whale.
Longer version, back when the Battleship was added, it had a purpose. Back when 20K login was a CCP wet dream and being insta-blapped by 600 ships wasn't happening as standard practice. That was a very long time ago and now, the BS has become outmoded. It's no longer a dps hitpoint wall. Now it's a dps kite wall.
And as Goons have proven with great success, the way to win EVE is to spam junk. From the lowly Drake to any ship you can mass produce. Make lots. spam it on to the field.
When the battleship was added you could fit multiple MWD, had no stacking penalties to damage mods (full rack heatsink geddons) and there was no tracking. It was a time of volley the enemy before they volley you and attacking a battleship in anything other than another battleship was suicide.
In the largest fight in EVE history than happened last year my Navy Mega (dutch courage) was primaried so many times I lost count yet its armour held. I spent the entire time orbiting the station without my MWD on.
Please don't tell lies. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
72
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:05:00 -
[337] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Arduemont wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: No they are terrible.
I think perhaps you should stop posting. You have literally an entire thread of people facepalming over each of your posts. Saying that you can't solo roam around nullsec and catch frigates in a battleship is like saying you can't screw lightbulbs in with a Pneumatic drill. No you can't. But you can't drill holes in the pavement with your hand either. It's a false economy. To paraphrase Einstein 'If you judge a Battleship by its ability to lock frigates, it will live its whole life believing that it is terrible.' A thread full of blobbers who never used a battleship for pvp in small / solo scenario. As I have stated before, battleships are fine in blobs because other people pick up your slack. "Battleships can't solo PvP" he says. Meanwhile, people are out there doing solo PvP in battleships. I never said they cannot solo PvP. They can. Just not for long (mobility, cloakability), and not against a skilled pilot in a small ship (tracking holes, speed / sig tanking, kiting). I challenge anyone to take up my offer. I will provide you with a T1 battleship and your desired fit (other than a dominix as it uses non BS specific main weaponry), take it to an area of null that I will select, if you manage 5 pvp kills without popping I'll concede I am wrong. Given I did the same thing in a Proteus and got 22 kills and I apparantly suck you should have no issues. Additionally I'll provide 1 billion isk per kill as a reward (trusted 3rd party). My prediction: This is how it will end for you
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9732
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:10:00 -
[338] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
Last time infinity offered a battleship to go solo and kill stuff I accepted.
Infinity didn't deliver. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18722
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:12:00 -
[339] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. It is indeed telling: he can't seem to make a point without deliberately biasing the conditions and ignoring the larger context of his supposed evidence. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6080
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:59:00 -
[340] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote: just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
Last time infinity offered a battleship to go solo and kill stuff I accepted. Infinity didn't deliver. You're just a blobber.
Also dominxes are completely balanced. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
629
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Posted - 2014.01.04 17:18:00 -
[341] - Quote
Why do people use battleships?
From a PvE standpoint, the battleship is pretty much king of level 4 missions. Sure, the Ishtar and Tengu can also do them, but in terms of maximum buffer along with DPS, a battleship is where it's at. If you mess up and shoot a trigger early, you aren't worrying as much about the possibility of losing your ship because that huge reservoir of HP is there while you rep it up (if you're active tanked). On top of that, battleship-sized weapons provide the most damage output available, and there are only four ships in the game that can use those sized weapons while not being battleships themselves. None of them make very good level 4 missioning ships.
The Ishtar, Myrmidon, Eos and Prophecy can all field a full flight of heavy drones or sentries, allowing them to compete in that aspect with battleships in level 4s. Each can also field a decent tanks, especially with T2 resists.
In PvP it becomes a different story. In high sec the prevalence of bumping alts allows players to reliably use battleships, because it affords them increased range dictation capabilities. A Machariel bumping you is likely to prevent you from ever seeing the safety of the docking ring again. At the same time, should it prove to be a gank that same Machariel can keep the main against the station, allowing them to hide. Dodixie is a great place to watch this in action.
Battleships are big, lumbering battering rams, and that's about it. They provide big numbers when they work, but they need such stringent requirements to do so that they are most of the time not worth it. A solo PvPer or small gangs are not going to take battleships, they're going to be in a battlecruiser or below. It provides improved mobility while not sacrificing much in the way of tank or DPS. Plus, it's generally easier to maximize the capabilities of the battlecruiser long before you can do so with a battleship. When it comes right down to it, though, the battleship can and will lose to smaller ships, simply because of limiting factors (weapon tracking, smaller sig, etc.). While it might be nice to field the Megathron or Abaddon, an Ishtar can do the job as well, if not better. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
185
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:19:00 -
[342] - Quote
Pretty much any battleship is competitive when paired with a rapier/huginn and/or curse. If you're flying something that experiences difficulty applying damage or making it stick then those two bad boys are your best frienda. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8094
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:00:00 -
[343] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are. Ignoring for a moment that you're probably a sock puppet, the reason we haven't taken him up on it is because it fails to address the larger issue of balance. As we've made abundantly clear, you don't judge ships based on 1v1 and call it a comprehensive comparison. That's just ********. It's like judging an Olympic gymnast on their landings alone. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
632
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 21:34:00 -
[344] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are. Ignoring for a moment that you're probably a sock puppet, the reason we haven't taken him up on it is because it fails to address the larger issue of balance. As we've made abundantly clear, you don't judge ships based on 1v1 and call it a comprehensive comparison. That's just ********. It's like judging an Olympic gymnast on their landings alone.
Mommy, how come his apple crushed my orange?
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
632
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 21:42:00 -
[345] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are. Ignoring for a moment that you're probably a sock puppet, the reason we haven't taken him up on it is because it fails to address the larger issue of balance. As we've made abundantly clear, you don't judge ships based on 1v1 and call it a comprehensive comparison. That's just ********. It's like judging an Olympic gymnast on their landings alone. Mommy, how come his apple crushed my orange?
I don't always quote myself but when I do, I really like to go off...
So I figure, your standard red delicious should have no problem making it through a mandarin ("christmas") orange, but might actually receive some damage upon impact with say, a small, unripened "sunkist" navel orange. The ripeness and variety of the apple would certainly come into question though, and I imagine the damage sustained by the apple would vary greatly dependent upon several factors.
Testing shall be required, but until then, the hypothesis is as follows:
That an apple* will, with a greater than 50% success rate, cause irreparable damage to an orange**, when colliding at speeds relative to an average human's arm-swinging motion, without the apple receiving irreparable damage.
*any 'standard' variety and size of apple **any 'standard' variety and size of orange
TO THE PRODUCE DEPARTMENT!! Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8096
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 22:08:00 -
[346] - Quote
I like the way you think. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6083
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 22:10:00 -
[347] - Quote
No, just claim that one is superior to the others, and anyone who says contrary is dumb ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
190
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 23:14:00 -
[348] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
No its because to be honest im not convinced Ziona wouldnt have a cyno in system to drop an entire fleet on my one ship... although that would imply Ziona has friends... Maybe it is a good idea...eh at the same time though I dont like null... Tell you what you reimburse it and ill go wormhole diving with only the battleship and my alt in a scan only ship. Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6083
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 00:14:00 -
[349] - Quote
Tasiv Deka wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
No its because to be honest im not convinced Ziona wouldnt have a cyno in system to drop an entire fleet on my one ship... although that would imply Ziona has friends... Maybe it is a good idea...eh at the same time though I dont like null... Tell you what you reimburse it and ill go wormhole diving with only the battleship and my alt in a scan only ship. no you must gimp your fit by having the probe launcher on your battleship
SOLO ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
190
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 00:18:00 -
[350] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tasiv Deka wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
No its because to be honest im not convinced Ziona wouldnt have a cyno in system to drop an entire fleet on my one ship... although that would imply Ziona has friends... Maybe it is a good idea...eh at the same time though I dont like null... Tell you what you reimburse it and ill go wormhole diving with only the battleship and my alt in a scan only ship. no you must gimp your fit by having the probe launcher on your battleship SOLO
Only if Ziona springs for a faction expanded then... Or buys me a Nestor when they come out Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
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dilly nay
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.01.05 00:25:00 -
[351] - Quote
i fly a battleship because its cheap and can solo l4's. all your reasons seem void to this truth. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6084
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 00:28:00 -
[352] - Quote
dilly nay wrote:i fly a battleship because its cheap and can solo l4's. all your reasons seem void to this truth. ah but you see they already said pve is irrelevant ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1353
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 01:06:00 -
[353] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:
just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.
Last time infinity offered a battleship to go solo and kill stuff I accepted. Infinity didn't deliver. I offered you a Mega, you demanded a vindicator. Very different story.
Why don't you take me up on my offer, you're the mega pvp king.... should be nice and easy .... |
Kasife Vynneve
Nourwolf Corporation Fortis Et Certus
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 02:10:00 -
[354] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Why fly BS?
4 words:
New Sexy Megathron hull.
New Sexy Apocalypse hull |
Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:55:00 -
[355] - Quote
Hmm - this thread is going places...
My question has been answered though.
To sum it up: Unless I plan to solo run L4s or am in an alliance providing me with free prefitted BS for F1-pushing or drone assist blobs (really - what's the difference? - launching and assigning drones takes more effort than hitting F1), I shouldn't fly them.
Thanks for the input. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6085
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Posted - 2014.01.05 03:00:00 -
[356] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:To sum it up: Unless I plan to solo run L4s or am in an alliance providing me with free prefitted BS for F1-pushing or drone assist blobs (really - what's the difference? - launching and assigning drones takes more effort than hitting F1), I shouldn't fly them.
Thanks for the input. Wait wait, you need to listen more to what Infinity Ziona has to say... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4091
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:18:00 -
[357] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point?
One point that I have witnessed is that the BS is attractive to new players who want to get into level 4 missions ASAP to get ISK for other goals mainly due to DPS needs.
A new player at a few weeks can successfully tank a battle cruiser but skills for DPS are still lacking and the BS-sized ships present some difficulty so far as breaking their tanks. An experienced player with their weapons specialization and up in support skills can break BS-sized tanks in missions with a battle cruiser.
Thus this race to BS. I think it's a mistake though. A lot of new players think "bigger is better" until they try PVP and come up against an assault frigate and no way to deal with small targets. Over the years I've seen a few posts from new players asking about "this super frigate that killed me".
After 7 years I find I don't like the battle ship as much as the battle cruiser. Frigates were great at the start and I wanted to get into interceptors, but when I was in situations back in 2006 that required more firepower I gravitated to cruisers and still in need of firepower went to battle cruisers for more high slots. I didn't fly a battle ship until 2010 and still find them to be too big and slow for my playstyle, but other players will sit like ducks and tank them well enough. I've flown typhoons and scorpions only in a few situations that required it.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:04:00 -
[358] - Quote
dilly nay wrote:i fly a battleship because its cheap and can solo l4's. all your reasons seem void to this truth.
Well assault frigates can also solo L4s ... though instead of changing hardeners you have to change the whole d@mn ship when facing different rats.
All in all though a T1/T2 fit basic T1 battleship like a Domi or Raven is probably the most cost efficient stress free way of grinding L4s for ISK and if you do lose one its only half a dozen missions and the replacement has paid for itself.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1356
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:21:00 -
[359] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Gulliver Kilmister wrote:To sum it up: Unless I plan to solo run L4s or am in an alliance providing me with free prefitted BS for F1-pushing or drone assist blobs (really - what's the difference? - launching and assigning drones takes more effort than hitting F1), I shouldn't fly them.
Thanks for the input. Wait wait, you need to listen more to what Infinity Ziona has to say... I think having offered a free fitted battleship + 5 billion isk to try to get 5 solo kills without dying, and finding all the big opinionated mouths in this thread, including the self proclaimed king of mega's, refusing to take it up shows that those mouths are just that, mouths with nothing to back it up.
So I guess the only thing left to say here is, if you can't put up, you should probably shut up when it comes to something you know nothing about and have no experience in... |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2271
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Posted - 2014.01.05 04:29:00 -
[360] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I think having offered a free fitted battleship + 5 billion isk to try to get 5 solo kills without dying, and finding all the big opinionated mouths in this thread, including the self proclaimed king of mega's, refusing to take it up shows that those mouths are just that, mouths with nothing to back it up. So because no one is interested in humouring you for a free BS, that must mean you're right. Oh god. |
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