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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
328
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Posted - 2014.01.02 01:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Point me to the post where I even mentioned the word trolling, please.
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:I'd call your posts very constructive due to the impressive display of how people contributing nothing useful to a question and venting nothing but hot air make fools of themselves.
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Oh - and on a side note, trolling is prohibited on these forums...
Yep you are new here. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.01.02 01:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
Yep you are new here.
Indeed |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
206
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Posted - 2014.01.02 01:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
Yep you are new here.
Indeed
It's a tool box. BS is a certain kind of tool, with a certain kind of application. Sometimes you want a 20 lb sledge, other times you wan't a ball peen hammer. There is no be all end all ship that you use for every situation. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4629
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 02:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Battleships, like any ship, have pros and cons... strengths and weaknesses... compared to other ships in different tactics.
From a solo and small gang perspective they lack mobility, the ability to dictate range, and are vulnerable to numerous smaller ships. Ergo... they are inferior in this regard.
But with liberal amounts of support and/or smashing structures are the order of the day then few other sub-capitals have the staying power (tank) or the firepower (DPS) that a battleship has combined into one hull.
Basically... battleships are "one trick ponies." And it's a good trick. People will continue using them because when you need to stay on the field for a long time and hit hard while doing it, nothing comes close to the usefulness of a battleship. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
752
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
That said, I wish you all a good and happy 2014! ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:
That said, I wish you all a good and happy 2014!
Thanks for cleaning out the rubbish and all the best wishes for the new year :).
I must indeed be new here.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
609
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point?
Afaik the Ishtar and tengu are the best PVE cruisers. The dominix (battleship) has the same tracking as the Ishtar and more gun dps, and can run 4 damage mods as well as an armor tank, leaving it more midslots free for applied dps mods.
ie I wound up using the Ishtar for null ratting against kin/therm shooting rats, but prefer dominix for highsec missioning.
The kronos is an oddball, it does a few missions faster than a dominix (particularly those that blasters will apply properly in), and some it just cannot beat a dominix, whether or not it has rails or blasters - about all you can do with it is salvage on the fly to boost isk/hr.
All marauders can now bastion tank ridiculous amounts of dps, so can solo a lot of L5s and one imagines that both neuting/webbing L5s and neuting/webbing high level sleepers can probably be cheesed by dropping a can of cap charges from an alignment hauler (one that you don't care if it explodes anyway) - so yes there is a lot of stuff a solo marauder can do that neither a battleship nor cruiser can with a little prep in the encounter. |
Katran Luftschreck
Stillwater Corporation
2107
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.
So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?
I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.
Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
8752
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why fly BS?
4 words:
New Sexy Megathron hull. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4629
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 03:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.
So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?
I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.
Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much. Because insta-locking battleships camping stargates should totally be a thing.
It's all about game balance. Slow locking times for larger ships forces people to vary their fleets and provides a way for smaller, faster ships (that can't match a larger ship in raw power) the ability to disengage. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
96
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.
So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?
I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.
Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much.
Suspension of disbelief in a game where the physics are based on rubber duckies floating in a bath-tub ? |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1638
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point?
Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
689
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rattlesnake, all day, every day |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
97
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Posted - 2014.01.02 03:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
TBH if the OP just wants a much tougher ship that otherwise behaves like a frigate they should look at training for Assault Frigates. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9709
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Posted - 2014.01.02 05:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Battleships are fine, they simply need more thought. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Daimon Kaiera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
496
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Posted - 2014.01.02 05:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nerf afk cloaking .... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--. |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Itinerant Empire
230
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Posted - 2014.01.02 05:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now. They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists. Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it. They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.
So.... that's why people use them. It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious. T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me. Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP. I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking.
Battleships meant to be flown in supported fleets and not very strong solo. Wonders never cease... |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9710
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Posted - 2014.01.02 05:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now. They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists. Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it. They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.
So.... that's why people use them. It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious. T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me. Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP. I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking. Battleships meant to be flown in supported fleets and not very strong solo. Wonders never cease...
The raven hulls are rather good at solo work. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8037
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 06:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
The Typhoon isn't bad either. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Job Valador
Sovereign Colonies Armed Forces
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 06:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
My wonderful geddon. Oh how useful you are friend. "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
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Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
42
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Posted - 2014.01.02 06:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
PVE and fleet fights where you just need more DPS then a cruiser could offer. Plus domis are pretty versatile with their drones and highslots beeing used for utility like neuts. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1275
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 07:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point? Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche. No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage.
The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9710
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 07:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Ptraci wrote:Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point? Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche. No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage. The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping.
And yet the legion fleets got torn apart in the Fountain war Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kawaiian Breeze
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.02 07:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage
Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs
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TharOkha
0asis Group
715
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Posted - 2014.01.02 07:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Faction and T2 variants are good. But T1 are horrible at everything (except sentry domis). And now with warp changes they suck a little bit more.
While sub-BS t1 ships are very good , T1 BS are simply bad. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldnt the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1275
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Posted - 2014.01.02 07:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kawaiian Breeze wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs A carrier will rip apart subcaps with bouncer II's. Does that mean since the carrier is a capital that capitals are great for killing subcaps. No. Just like the super carrier, the carrier, the Dominix, Gila, Ishtar....the Slowcat scourge of Goonspace they're all good at sub cap warfare because they all share a specific element. One that is not specific to the majority of Battleships.
Its disingenuous, somewhat like saying all battleships are fine because the Mach is fine... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6038
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Posted - 2014.01.02 08:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Ptraci wrote:Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point? Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche. No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage. The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping. And yet the legion fleets got torn apart in the Fountain war by mega fleet. grrr, blobbers ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
846
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Posted - 2014.01.02 08:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ignoring T3 Cruisers, that aren't really cruisers but are BS on Overpowered steroids with cruiser sig & speed..... A BS fleet built well can take on a cruiser fleet. It depends on fleet composition and what the two have been built to fight. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
960
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kawaiian Breeze wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs
Doesn't really say much because the T3 fleet was out numbered 3 to 1, plus the Domi's had a pretty good sized logistics fleet along with them. Of course they are gonna eat up the T3 fleet with that much help and support. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1275
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Posted - 2014.01.02 08:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Kawaiian Breeze wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs Doesn't really say much because the T3 fleet was out numbered 3 to 1, plus the Domi's had a pretty good sized logistics fleet along with them. Of course they are gonna eat up the T3 fleet with that much help and support. + it ignores one of the primary issues with battleships (BS weapons vs small ships) + ignores the OP'ness of assigning drones to a fast locking drone bunny. |
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