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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2248
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Posted - 2014.01.02 08:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships. T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol).
Oh god. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9710
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Blastermega has no issues tracking orbiting fighters and the new rage raven rip cruisers apart. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8039
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships. T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol). Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like. HAC fleets easily compare, so there's no reason to suggest automatically that T3 won't. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1276
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships. T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol). hmmmmmm
So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game that directly competes with battleships based on a possible future nerf the details of which we know absolutely nothing.
I guess we can ignore the whines from Goons regarding slowcats since they're irrelevent because one day there may be a nerf of drones and drone assist.
Thanks for clearing that all up.
Edit: damn beaten by a goon ^^ |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8039
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
I just know CCP is going to think "jack of all trades" when looking at T3, and that's probably what the first balance pass is going to look like. They don't seem to get the point that this is a ******** way to balance a ship (see: Gnosis, and the Nestor proposal) because people don't use ships that can do everything okay, they use ships that can do things really well. Nobody uses T3s because they can do a lot of things, they use them because they do specific tasks really well. If any given task a T3 can do is done better by another ship, people will simply fly that ship instead. T3s are ubiquitous because they can be configured to do a lot of things really well (but not at the same time). This needs to be preserved, while ensuring that they don't trample on roles taken up by other ships. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6038
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I just know CCP is going to think "jack of all trades" when looking at T3, and that's probably what the first balance pass is going to look like. They don't seem to get the point that this is a ******** way to balance a ship (see: Gnosis, and the Nestor proposal) because people don't use ships that can do everything okay, they use ships that can do things really well. Nobody uses T3s because they can do a lot of things, they use them because they do specific tasks really well. If any given task a T3 can do is done better by another ship, people will simply fly that ship instead. T3s are ubiquitous because they can be configured to do a lot of things really well (but not at the same time). This needs to be preserved, while ensuring that they don't trample on roles taken up by other ships. So... no more proteus fleets jumping into a mass of totally balanced drone assisting dominixes? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2250
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Posted - 2014.01.02 08:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like. I've seen pictures which give quite a clear indication of what the rebalance will look like. It had T3 Cruisers and Navy Cruisers right next to eachother. Oh god. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8042
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
Yeah, that too. Would you really deprive us the pleasure of killing fleets of these things, CCP?
Riot Girl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like. I've seen pictures which give quite a clear indication of what the rebalance will look like. It had T3 Cruisers and Navy Cruisers right next to eachother. Indeed, let's base predictions on balance by a picture dev made in photoshop in 2 minutes. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2250
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 08:58:00 -
[69] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game I didn't say the class should be ignored. I said it's irrelevant to balance discussions because it's a freak of nature. Purge it with fire. Oh god. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8042
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
774
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Posted - 2014.01.02 09:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
You apparently have never had your cruiser blapped by a Megathron that is scram+webbing you down to 50m/s. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2250
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic. How come? The way I see it, T3s are probably going to become a cheap alternative to T2 cruisers while offering better performance than T1s. People might complain about the T3 skill training thing, but it's still easier to train a T3 than it is to train all specialised T2 ships. I can't say exactly what is going to happen, but I feel they're probably going to end up as a stepping stone between T1 ships and specialised T2 ships while retaining their versatility for fittings (plus I think there was something about refitting in space and replaceable rigs idk). Oh god. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9711
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships. T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol). hmmmmmm So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game that directly competes with battleships based on a possible future nerf the details of which we know absolutely nothing. I guess we can ignore the whines from Goons regarding slowcats since they're irrelevent because one day there may be a nerf of drones and drone assist. Thanks for clearing that all up. Edit: damn beaten by a goon ^^
We do know that they will land between t1 And t2. Perhaps slightly better than faction and they will not be better in any specialised role. This means a rather big nerf is on the way. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8042
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic. How come? The way I see it, T3s are probably going to become a cheap alternative to T2 cruisers while offering better performance than T1s. People might complain about the T3 skill training thing, but it's still easier to train a T3 than it is to train all specialised T2 ships. I can't say exactly what is going to happen, but I feel they're probably going to end up as a stepping stone between T1 ships and specialised T2 ships while retaining their versatility for fittings (plus I think there was something about refitting in space and replaceable rigs idk). Which again means that nobody who can fly T2 has any use for a T3.
Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8042
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
I'm not asking for T3 to be better than T2 in specific roles, note. I'm asking for them to have different roles, as opposed to the proposed "every role T2 has but worse." Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2251
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Posted - 2014.01.02 09:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Well that just goes back to what you were saying about speculations. With the versatility for roles and fittings, maybe even T2 trained pilots will find unique roles for T3s. Not only that, but I imagine T3s will come down in price to be closer to faction cruisers, so that would make them desirable to T2 trained pilots if it should turn out that way. Oh god. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8044
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:21:00 -
[77] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Well that just goes back to what you were saying about speculations. With the versatility for roles and fittings, maybe even T2 trained pilots will find unique roles for T3s. Not only that, but I imagine T3s will come down in price to be closer to faction cruisers, so that would make them desirable to T2 trained pilots if it should turn out that way. Possibly. I don't have much faith in CCP being able to rebalance them this carefully. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point?
Maybe because they are the most powerful cost efficiency wise?
What is your subcapital counter to a fleet of sentry dominixes supported by remote repair?
GRanted CCP made Battleships too weak with the pass of years, but a few of them still are useful.
CCP has a very very strong resistance towards increasing DPS even more, but other thigns can be made. THe MJD was a great move by CCP, creating a power on battleships that is unrivaled by other ships.
A few other options as the MJD would go great for battleships. That and a few large modules could receive some buffs, "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8044
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 09:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:What is your subcapital counter to a fleet of sentry dominixes supported by remote repair? You're supporting your point about battleships with the most overpowered subcapital fleet composition there is. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2874
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 10:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Why? Because active reps, that's why. Can you get a 3k DPS active local rep on any of the sub BSs without officer? Didn't think so.
Also, RR Domis. Just saying. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
108
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Posted - 2014.01.02 10:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
T1 BS? disposable ships of the line. I'd rather trash my scorp rather than needlessly loose my T3 and a skill burn. T2 and navy/pirate faction bad? 0/10 bad troll. l2p GÇö+¬GÇö |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 10:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:(20k damage vs Ishtar / Tengu 1k or less) as well as damage application (BS Torps or Cruise (bad) vs Tengu HAM (good) or Ishtar Sentry (excellent), mobility, cloakability (lock time nerfage)).
I've been having terrible trouble with my Ishtar in sites recently. Did CCP tweak the NPC drone targeting code? My drones get blatted regularly, so much so that I no longer use this ship as the constant recall/launch of drones is a massive pita.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1169
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Posted - 2014.01.02 10:49:00 -
[83] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.
So what's the point? well....
big ship with big guns. i always love the idea. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 10:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
I do agree on the comments above about the current proposal for the Nestor.
It looks like being a dogs breakfast abortion of a ship that does lots of stuff semi OK but not all at the same time and nothing well.
For around 3 billion you will get a ship with range bonused lasers without the grid/cpu to actually use them and without the target lock range to use beams or the tank potential to use pulse ... all combined with remote repping bonuses that compete with the sentry drone link mods and the large lasers for the high slots. |
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
116
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 10:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now. They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists. Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it. They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.
So.... that's why people use them. It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious. T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me. Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP. I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking.
I dont know what navy BCs you have acces to that the rest of us dont, but I would definately take a BS over a a navy BC any day. They can fit heavy neuts, and with teamwork (this is a multiplayer game after all).
Nothing T1 beats a good BS fleet with triage carrier support. You can have better range, more damage and more tank than anything else. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 10:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:What is your subcapital counter to a fleet of sentry dominixes supported by remote repair? You're supporting your point about battleships with the most overpowered subcapital fleet composition there is.
Just answerign the starting question of the OP.
Battleships can be powerful with all their inherent disadvantages. CCP just need to make the Battleships that are far wore than the dominix to be a bit closer to domi level.
Funny is that durign the Battleship releance msot peopel whined that dominix was beign nerfed .. was too weak etc and I was OMFG this thing wil be so overpowered. Well, almost no one listened to me. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9712
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 11:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
Battleships are powerful enough, people simply are not using them well Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2874
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 11:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I do agree on the comments above about the current proposal for the Nestor.
It looks like being a dogs breakfast abortion of a ship that does lots of stuff semi OK but not all at the same time and nothing well.
Your kidding right? It looks incredible. Just think about how incredible RR domis are for a moment. Now do that with a Nestor. Invincible small gangs. You could tank a 20 man gang with two Nestors. Just saying. Plus, if they're anything like the other SoE ships they will have a giant cargobay so your not going to run out of cap boosters any time soon. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 11:46:00 -
[89] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:I do agree on the comments above about the current proposal for the Nestor.
It looks like being a dogs breakfast abortion of a ship that does lots of stuff semi OK but not all at the same time and nothing well. Your kidding right? It looks incredible. Just think about how incredible RR domis are for a moment. Now do that with a Nestor. Invincible small gangs. You could tank a 20 man gang with two Nestors. Just saying. Plus, if they're anything like the other SoE ships they will have a giant cargobay so your not going to run out of cap boosters any time soon.
Can you explain to me just how invincible small gangs are a good thing? I would have thought quite the contrary. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 12:04:00 -
[90] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Battleships are powerful enough, people simply are not using them well
Some of them are.. some are POS. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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