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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6061
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP. Exactly, you PvP so you can do high end PvE activies in safety. Therefore, Sov PvE is the real end game, and PvP is just the mechanic to get there. everything is just pve ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6061
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 21:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Collecting tears is just a different form of harvesting that takes place on forums and leaked comms is all ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
58
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:15:00 -
[63] - Quote
Alex Sorensen wrote:Snagletooth Johnson wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP.
Exactly, you PvP so you can do high end PvE activies in safety. Therefore, Sov PvE is the real end game, and PvP is just the mechanic to get there. Sov PVE can only be achieved if there is a proper PVP infrastructure to keep the PVE capsuleers safe. So it can be a mix of both PVE and PVP, but it is not strictly PVE. No, it's not a mix. Sov Warfare is fighting over PvE resources. The end game is PvE. PvP is just a tool, a means, to get and hold those resources. Once those resources are obtain, it's all about the PvE.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1120
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote: No, it's not a mix. Sov Warfare is fighting over PvE resources. The end game is PvE. PvP is just a tool, a means, to get and hold those resources. Once those resources are obtain, it's all about the PvE.
Or its exactly the opposite. Many sov wars have been fought over revenge, and out of spite. Sov wars are fought out of boredom, despite the cost. ISK doesn't make people log in, fun does. Weather you enjoy making isk or blowing it up is not something that can be generalized to the whole of Eve. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4348
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
Meyr wrote:NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP.
Sure you can, Miniluv & other groups have proven this on many occasions. This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013. |
stoicfaux
3787
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Snagletooth Johnson wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP. Exactly, you PvP so you can do high end PvE activies in safety. Therefore, Sov PvE is the real end game, and PvP is just the mechanic to get there. everything is just pve Except RMT. If you're paying your rent with RMT, it's not PvE anymore.
WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
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Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
58
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Snagletooth Johnson wrote: No, it's not a mix. Sov Warfare is fighting over PvE resources. The end game is PvE. PvP is just a tool, a means, to get and hold those resources. Once those resources are obtain, it's all about the PvE.
Or its exactly the opposite. Many sov wars have been fought over revenge, and out of spite. Sov wars are fought out of boredom, despite the cost. ISK doesn't make people log in, fun does. Weather you enjoy making isk or blowing it up is not something that can be generalized to the whole of Eve. Revenge for the other corp messing up their PvE. Out of spite that the other corp has better moon goo. Out of bredom becuase, well, it's PvE after all. Yes, ISk does make people log in, very few sub their alts, gotta get that plex money.
Eve generalized, My job is done Eve is PvE!!
Oh, and an obligitory Ore is Free!!! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1011
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Posted - 2014.01.03 21:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
Meyr wrote:
NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.' .
You so completely and utterly wrong. We make isk from PVP and PVP alone. You would be impressed hwo easy is.. when you can sustain a 99% efficiency.
So you are already wrong in a single sentence, proved yourself to be unable to grasp the reality of eve, therefore your opinion is null and void.
No eve is NOT PVE. PVE is how the weakest fuel their PVP. Even if they do not want to PVP.. they are just preparign themselves to someday be the part on PVP.. even if its being ganked.
There is zero value in eve PVE, no purpose, no achievement, no excitment...
all of eve is PVP. Even these forums are completely PVP.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Deunan Tenephais
59
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Posted - 2014.01.03 22:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:Oh, and an obligitory Ore is Free!!! It's true, the ore is free but not the time it took you to mine.
Beside foolishness, the OP vented an inflamatory rant based upon a reality: PvP does not create or produce wealth, it only destroy it or make it change hands. Only extraction of ressources from the environment (mining, rating, missioning, other thinging) produce the wealth necessary to PvP. I don't pretend to know if PvP is the core of EvE, but PvE is its basis at least because CCP decided so. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
275
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Posted - 2014.01.03 22:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
Just do whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want.
Also do not be surprised if someone else's whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want involves removing you from your ship. Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
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Miasmos
Aliastra Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.01.03 22:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
In the beginning, there was PVE.
Then, PVP |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1644
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 22:46:00 -
[72] - Quote
Meyr wrote:NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'
So you agree changes must be made to make PVP more profitable so you aren't forced to PVE if you want to PVP?
You believe in the sandbox right? |
Lailyana Enaka
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
124
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Posted - 2014.01.03 23:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
one cant pvp with pve? i for one disagree, I havent touched a mission in well over 3 months and i still have more than enough isk to go out and get blown up |
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2014.01.03 23:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
I do hope they make pure, non-ganking PVP activities more profitable. And simultaneously making it even harder to attack and kill others in high-sec. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6066
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 23:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:I do hope they make pure, non-ganking PVP activities more profitable. ganking isn't pvp
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:And simultaneously making it even harder to attack and kill others in high-sec. now you're talking ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
275
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 23:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:I do hope they make pure, non-ganking PVP activities more profitable.
Profitability is in the hands of the individual. Many people, Logical 101 for example who spoke about the profitability of ransoms, have mentioned PVP activities that can yield a profit. This "they" you speak of is not responsible for making anyone profitable.
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:And simultaneously making it even harder to attack and kill others in high-sec.
Making oneself harder to attack and be killed in hi-sec is in the hands of the individual. If you don't want to be attacked and "killed" in hi-sec, don't be a profitable target. The same "they" is not responsible for making anyone safe.
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8073
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 23:35:00 -
[77] - Quote
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:And simultaneously making it even harder to attack and kill others in high-sec. Why must CCP do it for you? You have the power to do this yourself. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 00:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ivan Krividus wrote:Meyr wrote:Yes, I know some of you are going to threaten revenge for (insert whatever you want here).
Too bad.
Yes, it really is that simple. Watchlisted. Too bad. Its going to be less PvE than ever for you , at least.
Can I count this as a forum 'like'?
Big nasty guy has me watchlisted! Oh, NOES!!!!
Currently fighting up in Vale. Feel free to come hunt me down, Oh Great and Noble Manly Man!
By the way, loving you in those 'Diet Dr. Pepper Man advertisements! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6068
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 00:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:ZynnLee Akkori wrote:And simultaneously making it even harder to attack and kill others in high-sec. Why must CCP do it for you? You have the power to do this yourself. Why do it yourself? CCP has the power to do it for you. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 00:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Meyr wrote:NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.' So you agree changes must be made to make PVP more profitable so you aren't forced to PVE if you want to PVP? You believe in the sandbox right?
This would be a welcome change - i just have absolutely zero concept of how it could be done. |
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Miasmos
Aliastra Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2014.01.04 00:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Meyr wrote:EI Digin wrote:Meyr wrote:NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.' So you agree changes must be made to make PVP more profitable so you aren't forced to PVE if you want to PVP? You believe in the sandbox right? This would be a welcome change - i just have absolutely zero concept of how it could be done.
PVP salvage increase and wreck reprocessing for minerals on the spot. Introduce a new type of strip miner named "Ship Miner" which mines wrecks for minerals, fittable on mining barges. Alternately, haulers could scoop the wrecks and reprocess at station. Yield would be a percentage of base refined mats.
Get rid of insurance while at it to some degree. |
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 00:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ahh...the age old Eve argument rehashed...
Stupid really.
It was said once already. Eve is a blend and a delicate balance of PVE and PVP. You need PVE to fund PVP activities. Even ganking ships requires it. Otherwise, what's the point of doing so (other than tears) if they're not carrying stuff made by pve activities worth selling. If they never carried stuff worth selling, how do you intend to continue funding the ships you use to gank them? You need PVE just to build the ships and modules you use to PVP (gank) with. You need PVE to make all the drugs you lunatics are obviously on too!
So that brings us around to saying without PVP, there would be no real purpose to the PVE. Without PVP, nothing in the game would ever get destroyed. Eventually, there would be no need for anything further to be built except for new players entering the game, who would probably just end up building it for themselves. Even the market is driven by PVP. Everybody wants to sell their stuff but still get the most return. Everybody wants to buy the stuff for their projects at the lowest price possible. And thus even they are competing, aka PVP.
Eve isn't specifically a PVP game OR a PVE game. It's a sandbox. It's what you make of it.
Unfortunately, some are just too narrow minded to see beyond the reason they're here. They come for the PVP. Thus they see it as a PVP game. Others come for the PVE. So they see it as a PVE game. Some come for both, but like politics or religion, there's always two parties playing tug of war, trying to make you side with one over the other. And neither is really ever going to win because there is no definite truth.
If Eve has to be categorized as anything, I'd simply just call it a social game. |
Daimon Kaiera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
498
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 01:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
OP, I found something for you to read .... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8074
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 01:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
I definitely hesitated when I saw that URL. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 01:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
I seriously doubt anyone makes ISK on a regular basis out of genuine PvP.
On the other hand ganking miners and haulers and shiney mission ships fitted for PvE, that is another matter altogether, that clearly can be quite lucrative. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4087
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 01:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Meyr wrote:Yes, I know some of you are going to threaten revenge for (insert whatever you want here).
Too bad.
EVE Online is PVE. PVP is what DRIVES EVE Online. The desire for fights, space, vengeance, and much more, but it's all based upon PVE.
You can disagree all you want to, but, at its core, PVE is what enables all of the PVP.
Wether it's mining (yes, all of you nullsec hardcases, MOON MINING IS STILL MINING - it's just the ultimate in AFK PVE), manufacturing, ratting, Faction Warfare, trading (yes, at the highest levels, trading is PVP, but not to 99% of the PEOPLE doing it), or mission-running, PVE is what EVE is based upon.
NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'
Just because someone doesn't want to PVP doesn't mean they're "doing it wrong." Quite the contrary - they're doing it how they want to. They're paying their subscription fee to CCP, and getting something they enjoy in return.
THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the ultimate sandbox. Stop your moronic, short-sighted, and stupidly egotistical sneering at those evil, lazy, cowardly, and dirty mission-runners - who do you think just bought that X-Type X-Large Shield Booster from you? Some idiot looking to pad your killboard in the next fleet fight? Of course not.
Some people want to 'pew-pew!' Nothing wrong with that. Others just want to build things. Great - someone has to make new stuff to replace the losses, or supply new doctrines.
Others just want to have the shiniest, most ISK-per-module 'blinged-out' "ain't no rat gonna kill this" mission-running ship. It's a goal - just like that top-end Bougatti you'll never even come close to pushing to its limits.
So, stating that EVE is only a 'harsh, cold, dangerous place' is, at best, myopic - it merely goes to show how self-centered you are. I've made great friends of people I'll probably never meet in person. I've spent time enjoying solo play, and I've been one more name in local during huge fleet fights.
EVE is what you make of it - but it's all paid for by PVE. No PVE, no PVP.
Yes, it really is that simple.
I think the OP is correct.
Wormholes. Why go there? To get stuff. What's that stuff for? Building T3 ships. What do you do with T3 ships? They are good for both PVE and PVP.
Missions. Why run missions? To get ISK. What do you need ISK for? For ships. Why do you need ships? Sometimes you lose then in PVE, more often ships are lost in PVP.
Mining. Why mine? For materials. What do you do with them? Build ships. What kind of ships? Other mining ships but mainly combat ships used in PVE and PVP.
Exploration. What do you do with all that stuff you find? Create ships, implants, rigs, and stuff that helps in creating or building things. What do you build with those things? Ships and modules. What do you do with ships and modules?
I can do this all day.
The problem is, or why even have a thread in the first place, is that some people like to think PVP is somehow some heightened and enlightened state of being that allows them the privilege of looking down on those who do not play the game they way they do. Back in the days when hard work paid off, or there was value in accomplishing things like cleaning up pollution or feeding the poor or inventing things, someone seeking prestige might go down those routes. But now there's pretty much no future or potential any more and everybody under 30 is raised on the "I got my bling and booty I'm the best" music videos, it's only an end result that people come into a game and exalt themselves through a play style.
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ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2014.01.04 02:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.
I'd like to see bounties easier to collect. I'd even be okay with Concord offering a special limited-time "pass" to allow someone extra privileges in their hunt for a target. That could be a decent way to make ISK. Imagine all the money people would throw around trying to make life difficult for their competition.... Maybe Concord could even grant positive reputation based on the bounty collected (once per target, of course). If not that, then some other 'token' that a bounty hunter could turn in for loot of some kind. |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 02:18:00 -
[88] - Quote
Meyr wrote:
EVE Online is PVE. PVP is what DRIVES EVE Online. The desire for fights, space, vengeance, and much more, but it's all based upon PVE.
I think slightly differently.
PvP includes trying to get CCP to give us what we want. PvP is trying to get our team to do what we want. PvP is trying to get people to leave me in peace so I can be as boring as I want.
The complexity of Player vs. Environment pales by comparison. Pop some drones out, target some asteroids and read something. But it is important, it is part of the infrastructure of the game and allows for different player styles. Like my boringness.
As to sandboxes.
EVE is a star box.
Where every pixel is possibility. ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~ |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6069
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 02:20:00 -
[89] - Quote
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.. no ~e-honoureeee~
You heard it here first. Honorless. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2014.01.04 02:55:00 -
[90] - Quote
It's amazing how many of those "YOLO, EvE is PVP! HTFU" type of players are unable to think past their F1 button.
Kagura Nikon wrote:Meyr wrote: NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.' .
You so completely and utterly wrong. No, he is not. You just misunderstand his point. Of course it's possible for a group or an individual to fund themselves with PvP activities. BUT: You only take assets from other players - assets which have to come from somewhere. PvP doesn't create any ships or modules, it destroys them. If no one would do PvE anymore then eventually we would all be fighting each other in noobships. |
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