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Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been reading a bit about corps in hopes of joining one soon and most of them require "Security API checks". I'm not quite sure what that is. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
274
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Malachi Echerie wrote:I've been reading a bit about corps in hopes of joining one soon and most of them require "Security API checks". I'm not quite sure what that is.
Generally when a corp wants an API they want the whole shebang, you can probably x out eve mails but they want to see alts on account, your skills, income, and everything else.
This includes your location, ship, and your entire inventory across eve. So they can come blow you up if they are feeling peevish.
It is relatively standard for many of the older corps to require your API, but make sure they have a good reputation first. Also, make a new API code just for them, that way if they abuse it, or you leave corp later, you can just retire the code to deny them access to your information in the future.
Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Malachi Echerie wrote:I've been reading a bit about corps in hopes of joining one soon and most of them require "Security API checks". I'm not quite sure what that is. Generally when a corp wants an API they want the whole shebang, you can probably x out eve mails but they want to see alts on account, your skills, income, and everything else. This includes your location, ship, and your entire inventory across eve. So they can come blow you up if they are feeling peevish. It is relatively standard for many of the older corps to require your API, but make sure they have a good reputation first. Also, make a new API code just for them, that way if they abuse it, or you leave corp later, you can just retire the code to deny them access to your information in the future.
The term API is quite different than what I'm used to when it comes to MMO games, thank you for clearing that up. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
114
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/ I don't see the point of it though, it doesn't show linked accounts. Since you cant really filter out the "unwanted" as you can't get a look at all their accounts, seems more about just being nosy. Though I can see the use for very basic skill info and such, most everything else is intrusion.
For personal use it's excellent though. Can use it for evemon and EFT, also lots of uses on android apps. GÇö+¬GÇö |
Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/I don't see the point of it though, it doesn't show linked accounts. Since you cant really filter out the "unwanted" as you can't get a look at all their accounts, seems more about just being nosy. Though I can see the use for very basic skill info and such, most everything else is intrusion. For personal use it's excellent though. Can use it for evemon and EFT, also lots of uses on android apps.
Interesting, I won't be joining a corp for a while duo to my skill level but this is good to know. Thanks for the quick answers. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
114
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Posted - 2014.01.04 10:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
YW. As for corps, lots take new players with little to no SP. This isn't like most MMO's, end-game starts day 1. GÇö+¬GÇö |
Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.04 11:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:YW. As for corps, lots take new players with little to no SP. This isn't like most MMO's, end-game starts day 1.
Yeah I know, I read a lot about the game before starting. I've yet to fully get used to it but I'm aware of how hard it is and how hard it's supposed to be. |
Obunagawe
305
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Posted - 2014.01.04 11:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/I don't see the point of it though, it doesn't show linked accounts. Since you cant really filter out the "unwanted" as you can't get a look at all their accounts, seems more about just being nosy. Though I can see the use for very basic skill info and such, most everything else is intrusion.
This tbh. Just another reason to never join a corp. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3508
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Posted - 2014.01.04 11:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malachi Echerie wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/I don't see the point of it though, it doesn't show linked accounts. Since you cant really filter out the "unwanted" as you can't get a look at all their accounts, seems more about just being nosy. Though I can see the use for very basic skill info and such, most everything else is intrusion. For personal use it's excellent though. Can use it for evemon and EFT, also lots of uses on android apps. Interesting, I won't be joining a corp for a while duo to my skill level but this is good to know. Thanks for the quick answers.
Dont ever fall for the I need more SP trap.
You are good to go...right now.
Sp limits on corps are to weed out obvious spies etc. Its more about attitude then SP, a recruiter can let you in if he and the corp think you would fit in even with low SP.
And there are plent of new player friendly corporations around. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.04 11:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Malachi Echerie wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/I don't see the point of it though, it doesn't show linked accounts. Since you cant really filter out the "unwanted" as you can't get a look at all their accounts, seems more about just being nosy. Though I can see the use for very basic skill info and such, most everything else is intrusion. For personal use it's excellent though. Can use it for evemon and EFT, also lots of uses on android apps. Interesting, I won't be joining a corp for a while duo to my skill level but this is good to know. Thanks for the quick answers. Dont ever fall for the I need more SP trap. You are good to go...right now. Sp limits on corps are to weed out obvious spies etc. Its more about attitude then SP, a recruiter can let you in if he and the corp think you would fit in even with low SP. And there are plent of new player friendly corporations around.
Well thank you. I'll look around and find a corp recruitment to find a corp that suits me. |
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Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
166
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Posted - 2014.01.04 12:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Echoing J'Poll's sentiment - it's likely that if you wait on joining a corp, you'll get bored and quit the game. Do not wait. Even null-sec does not require much SP, although combat against rats would likely be too difficult.
As for corps that require a full API, it's not necessarily because they want collateral or are just 'nosy.' Vigilant, more like. Spies are a fact of life out in Null-sec, and you can't avoid them all. But the API info can give access to potential clues toward if the character is linked to another. It also allows for fewer obfuscation or misinformation from the applicant, so they will have a bit fewer tools for shenanigans. The full API allows you to dodge some of the spies and Awoxers.
In the right hands(yes, that's a big rider), the full API check is a good thing for you and the rest of the corp.
Jolly Codgers corp - Bloodthirsty old men of Null-Sec. -á PVP and organizational excellence through maturity, for pilots age 30+. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
114
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :) GÇö+¬GÇö |
Malachi Echerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :)
It's sketchy honestly, I don't think I can trust just anyone with my location, full inventory, etc. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1228
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malachi Echerie wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :) It's sketchy honestly, I don't think I can trust just anyone with my location, full inventory, etc.
Your location anyone can get any time. Locator agents are cheap and fast. |
Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
166
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Posted - 2014.01.04 13:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :) Of course. This is one of the primary reasons why you cannot dodge every spy. However, it does allow you to catch the negligent or lazy spies, or - more importantly - to reduce attempts at infiltration, due to an extra barrier. Those who don't want to start a whole 'nother account will likely not be spying on you. This isn't the case if you don't apply the full API check.
Malachi Echerie wrote:It's sketchy honestly, I don't think I can trust just anyone with my location, full inventory, etc. And the flip side is that you are sketchy to the corp you're applying to. If the corp has any ounce of political significance, then when you get in, you can and will cause at least some damage. It can affect a many people's assets and gameplay.
You've also got to rationally consider: What are they likely to do with that information? What CAN they do? How much incentive do they have to victimize you? How much is taken out of your control when sharing the full API? Answer: Not much. With the exception of if you were attempting to hide something important from your prospective corp.
All in all, surrendering your full API is a big compromise, a small opening, and a bit demeaning. The recruiters know that - They don't like being on the other end of the deal. And they wouldn't enact this necessity if they didn't think the payoff were worthwhile.
Jolly Codgers corp - Bloodthirsty old men of Null-Sec. -á PVP and organizational excellence through maturity, for pilots age 30+. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
417
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Posted - 2014.01.04 14:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Think of an API check... Well...
"There is no shortage of stupid people in EVE" - vets get scammed by Jita scammers quite regularly. That's where the scammers get their big payoffs to keep going.
Corp thieves and spies like to think they're a bright sort but tend to be a tad under average, scaling downwards. Many get caught/busted because they left a paper trail connecting their chars and such, which can show in a variety of different places with an API check (such as giving a char funds from a main, transferring it back, etc.)
It's more an idiot filter for the trash than something that'll actually stop an intelligent type but you will be a bit surprised at how many get caught by it. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3510
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Posted - 2014.01.04 14:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malachi Echerie wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :) It's sketchy honestly, I don't think I can trust just anyone with my location, full inventory, etc.
As said, Location isn't covert. You can run locator agents or just pay someone to run a locator for you.
Full inventory, it's a read only, they can't touch it. So even if they knew I had 25 PLEX and a faction fitted T3 in station "x"...good luck, it doesn't help them unless I undock it.
And that undocking part...is your own decision. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
274
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Think of an API check... Well...
"There is no shortage of stupid people in EVE" - vets get scammed by Jita scammers quite regularly. That's where the scammers get their big payoffs to keep going.
Corp thieves and spies like to think they're a bright sort but tend to be a tad under average, scaling downwards. Many get caught/busted because they left a paper trail connecting their chars and such, which can show in a variety of different places with an API check (such as giving a char funds from a main, transferring it back, etc.)
It's more an idiot filter for the trash than something that'll actually stop an intelligent type but you will be a bit surprised at how many get caught by it.
This. Just as IRL no form of prevention will stop a determined, thoughtfully planned out attack. But the great majority of attacks are sloppy because the perp is too arrogant to consider that the potential victim might actually be smarter and better prepared.
Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3510
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 16:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Now that I'm actually at my PC and can more easily copy/paste bookmarked stuff:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=245333&find=unread
Take a look at that guide. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2526
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Posted - 2014.01.04 16:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Before you join a corp, have a look at them on killboards.
See if they have a history of killing members of their own corp.
You can be sure they'll be checking you out for the same thing. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
93
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Posted - 2014.01.05 20:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :)
You might have another account but most people at some stage do tend to get rthings muxed up and you can still see who is talking with who various transactions from "unknown benefactors" at regular occurances, Theres a lot of info there and its up to the recruiter to scrutinize every aspect of it.
You don't trust someone on an API basis, (hell i barely trust anyone here) it just gives you information to assess a person and his background that really can't be doctored.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1654
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 02:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
The purpose of an API check is to put up a barrier against the less determined corp infiltrators.
Someone good that's been given a mercenary contract to mess up a specific corporation from the inside will still get in. But those are rare - most infiltrations (termed AWOXes when you join a corp to shoot its unsuspecting members) are done by people like me that are opportunistic, and applying to dozens of corporations looking for the ones with lax security to get in to one and hold it ransom somehow.
The API check will do a lot to undermine us if carried out by someone competent.
Personally, I would NOT trust a corporation that does not ask for at least a partial API. Nor would I trust a highsec corporation that let new recruits join within a week of first expressing interest in joining. Any corporation without basic operational security will have a lot stolen from it one day, or will crumble if a rival wardecs it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Malachi Echerie
Silver Star Federation Happy Cartel
2
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've got a lot of decent input on this, thanks. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1656
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Posted - 2014.01.06 06:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:I still don't see any good of it. If I were a spy, I could easily have many accounts. We shall trust this guy because his API looks nice. Yeah good luck with that :) You might have another account but most people at some stage do tend to get rthings muxed up and you can still see who is talking with who various transactions from "unknown benefactors" at regular occurances, Theres a lot of info there and its up to the recruiter to scrutinize every aspect of it. You don't trust someone on an API basis, (hell i barely trust anyone here) it just gives you information to assess a person and his background that really can't be doctored.
You should never trust anyone in EVE unless you share a bed IRL. Even then, be careful.
Be aware that an API check misses people who are good at funding their off-account alts with their main. I could purchase PLEX or some other portable commodity a new player might obtain (such as one of the highest value modules that can drop in a 4/10 DED site if the off-account alt has the skills to do such sites, or an Ascendancy Omega blueprint if the alt has hacking and Astrometrics skills sufficient to find a wormhole), then undock with it, instawarp to a safe spot, have my alt fleet warp to them, jettison the commodity, then have the alt loot it and sell it on the market.
PLEX are particularly good for this (if you can bring yourself to undock with PLEX in your cargo, but it's pretty safe in a well-tanked command ship or battleship), because PLEX are something of high value that new players can legitimately own without setting off any alarm bells. But the most convincing items are the fluke drops, if you can sound extremely proud of finding a high value deadspace module in your first three days of playing. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Marcus Avon
New Eden Fedo Lovers Society
23
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Posted - 2014.01.06 08:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Solai wrote:You've also got to rationally consider: What are they likely to do with that information? What CAN they do? How much incentive do they have to victimize you? How much is taken out of your control when sharing the full API? Answer: Not much. With the exception of if you were attempting to hide something important from your prospective corp.
This is EVE! Since when does anyone need a rational reason to screw you? They'll happily do it just for tears and lol's as you can clearly demonstrate for yourself just by undocking pretty much anywhere.
If there's one thing that EVE has taught me its that the only one I can trust is myself. Consequently the only one who will ever be seeing my API key is me. If that means that I miss out on the joy of being in a big, well-established corp, well that's a small price to pay for peace of mind.
If I'm going to get killed, ripped off or scammed by my own corp, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I didn't personally hand them all the information they needed to do it on a silver platter. Call it paranoia, but the game *is* famous for encouraging that sort of mindset and I have a feeling I'm far from alone. |
Sloan Erendil
Commercio Dominata
2
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Posted - 2014.01.06 20:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ride the clown API audit tool, best AWOX detect tool...available. You still have to know what to look for in the activity. :)
http://ridetheclown.com/eveapi/audit.php
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1666
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Posted - 2014.01.07 04:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Marcus Avon wrote:Solai wrote:You've also got to rationally consider: What are they likely to do with that information? What CAN they do? How much incentive do they have to victimize you? How much is taken out of your control when sharing the full API? Answer: Not much. With the exception of if you were attempting to hide something important from your prospective corp. This is EVE! Since when does anyone need a rational reason to screw you? They'll happily do it just for tears and lol's as you can clearly demonstrate for yourself just by undocking pretty much anywhere. If there's one thing that EVE has taught me its that the only one I can trust is myself. Consequently the only one who will ever be seeing my API key is me. If that means that I miss out on the joy of being in a big, well-established corp, well that's a small price to pay for peace of mind. If I'm going to get killed, ripped off or scammed by my own corp, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I didn't personally hand them all the information they needed to do it on a silver platter. Call it paranoia, but the game *is* famous for encouraging exactly that sort of mindset and I have a feeling I'm far from alone.
Please explain what damage someone can do to your character by seeing your API key.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Marcus Avon
New Eden Fedo Lovers Society
25
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Please explain what damage someone can do to your character by seeing your API key.
Oh I know that an API key is read only, so no direct damage can be done but direct damage isn't what worries me.
If somebody intends to rip off or kill your character then complete information about every aspect of that character would certainly make it much easier to do. How could it not?
You wrote the following in a previous post and I thought it made a lot of sense.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:You should never trust anyone in EVE unless you share a bed IRL. Even then, be careful.
Now obviously its a little exaggerated but I have heard these sentiments expressed in EVE many times by many different people so it doesn't make sense that it would apply in almost all situations *except* when applying to join a corp. If its basically true then it would be dangerous to trust a bunch of complete strangers with your character's most intimate details. |
Solai
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 05:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Marcus Avon wrote:Solai wrote:You've also got to rationally consider: What are they likely to do with that information? What CAN they do? How much incentive do they have to victimize you? How much is taken out of your control when sharing the full API? Answer: Not much. With the exception of if you were attempting to hide something important from your prospective corp. This is EVE! Since when does anyone need a rational reason to screw you? They'll happily do it just for tears and lol's as you can clearly demonstrate for yourself just by undocking pretty much anywhere. If there's one thing that EVE has taught me its that the only one I can trust is myself. Consequently the only one who will ever be seeing my API key is me. If that means that I miss out on the joy of being in a big, well-established corp, well that's a small price to pay for peace of mind. If I'm going to get killed, ripped off or scammed by my own corp, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I didn't personally hand them all the information they needed to do it on a silver platter. Call it paranoia, but the game *is* famous for encouraging exactly that sort of mindset and I have a feeling I'm far from alone. Well, first, 'missing out on the joys of a big, well-established corp' is not a small price to pay - it's a huge price. If you're willing to pay that premium, alright. But lets be objective - what you're willing to sacrifice is among the most powerful and valuable commodities in peoples' Eve experience. CCP's subscriber behavior statistics bear this out.
Second, of course there's people out there who do it for the lols. But in this specific situation, there's only a few. Most people are rational actors, and are looking to gain exactly what it appears: A new member to bolster their corp. Human resources are the ultimate commodity for a corp, particularly given that corp income is measured in the tens of billions. How likely is it that the price of your hangar junk is worth compromising a corp's recruiting reputation? Or is it worth more than you, as an asset? You're under-estimating the value of a recruit, and over-estimating the number of recruitment scammers out there. Sure, they exist, but your level of vigilance is.... yielding diminishing returns.
Third.... I forgot. But it was, like, a really good argument too.
Jolly Codgers corp - Bloodthirsty old men of Null-Sec. -á PVP and organizational excellence through maturity, for pilots age 30+. |
Amaranthe Emberd
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
11
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Posted - 2014.01.08 06:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Marcus Avon wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Please explain what damage someone can do to your character by seeing your API key. Oh I know that an API key is read only, so no direct damage can be done but direct damage isn't what worries me. If somebody intends to rip off or kill your character then complete information about every aspect of that character would certainly make it much easier to do. How could it not? You wrote the following in a previous post and I thought it made a lot of sense. Sabriz Adoudel wrote:You should never trust anyone in EVE unless you share a bed IRL. Even then, be careful. Now obviously its a little exaggerated but I have heard these sentiments expressed in EVE many times by many different people so it doesn't make sense that it would apply in almost all situations *except* when applying to join a corp. If that quote is essentially true then it would be dangerous to trust a bunch of complete strangers with your character's most intimate details.
Let me start by saying that when I was first starting in Eve I had also heard the saying "Don't trust anyone you can't punch in real life and then not even them fully."
This ended with me getting invited into a random corp created by a new player and full with other new players (no APIs asked), where the only thing people did was mine. And I was so paranoid that I never even went close to any of those guys. It ended with me quitting on my 3rd week or so, bored of mining and lacking any meaningful interactions with anyone.
There's a reason for vets to say that, they do it to save newbies some unpleasant experiences like giving away their newly bought plex to strangers to "sell" for them in order to avoid the taxes etc. Better safe than sorry and a little paranoia wouldn't hurt them when they are first starting out and don't know any of the tricks.
However, you're presuming people that want to scam you, steal from you or kill you need your API, which simply isn't the case. What good will it do them to know that you have a blinged out pirate battleship if you never actually undock in it? And if you do undock in it, same chances are that someone somewhere in high-sec will scan your ship down and you're going to get ganked in the next 0.5 system you jump in. Or they will stalk you for a few days and catch you then if they are of that type. No APIs needed for that at all. No APIs needed for corp theft either, just gaining the trust of someone and getting access to corp hangars etc.
The fact is people have tons of different methods for gathering the information they want about you, be it killboards, locator agents and so on. The question you really want to ask (especially when you're a new player and have very little of real value) is whether those people who're trying to recruit you will profit more from having you as a new member or from the measly 100 mill or so of frigates that you own. If you've done your research on the corp you're trying to apply to (those same sources of information are also available to you), chances are that the answer to that question will be that they put more value on having more corp members than more ISK.
In the end, it's all about the risks you're willing to take. Otherwise, you might just stay permanently docked in a station somewhere, spinning your ship and not talking to people ever (which is the part that usually gives away most about what you have and what you do). And if you do take a risk and it goes bad, as long as you're following the rule of "Never fly what you cannot afford to lose." it's not that big of a deal. It was a gamble, you took a risk, you lost, but you can keep going. Eve's just a game. |
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