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Anita Longwon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay, I am a newb so maybe I don't understand these things. When looking for ship insurance, I was told that a quantity displayed was assumed to be multiplied by 1000 (ie: 5.00 ISK = 5000 ISK). Is that correct?
Now I have this Imicus ship and got to the tutorial about insuring my ship and it shows me this:
http://i.imgur.com/fetBxad.png
Am I to believe that a ship I just checked on the market to cost a minimum of 350,000 ISK when insured at the top PLATINUM level is going to pay me 5,000 ISK on my loss? Who's insuring these, State Farm?
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Caterpil
Hippo Eats Dwarf Flappy Chickens With Teeth
39
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
The values shown are correct: the cost of platinum insurance is 1.5 ISK and the payout is 5 ISK.
Insurance values are based on the base minerals used to build the ship.
What you have there is an inner shipping zone imicus which can't be built. Only obtained from certain giveaways (or traded on the market ofc). The ship is not built thus the insurance is crap.
If you insured a normal imicus, then the platinum payout would likely be close to market value
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M'pact
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2014.01.05 03:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, special edition ships like that aren't really meant to be used -- they are basically collector's items.
No matter what the insurance is, I wouldn't recommend undocking in one, simply because people will be out to get you just to have a special edition ship on their killboard.
And as Caterpil said, the insurance payment for Platinum on that ship is 1.5 ISK and the payout is 5 ISK.
The price and payout for insurance are exactly as shown, not multiplied by anything. |
Anita Longwon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
M'pact wrote:Yeah, special edition ships like that aren't really meant to be used -- they are basically collector's items.
No matter what the insurance is, I wouldn't recommend undocking in one, simply because people will be out to get you just to have a special edition ship on their killboard. That's pretty odd since this is a ship they give you in a starter package.
M'pact wrote:The price and payout for insurance are exactly as shown, not multiplied by anything. That's even crazier because that means they pay out 5 ISK, not 5,000.
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Anita Longwon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caterpil wrote:If you insured a normal imicus, then the platinum payout would likely be close to market value
Probably not. I talked to someone with a regular Imicus and they said the Platinum payout was 144K and the lowest-priced one on the market was 350k, not to mention the gear you'd lose. I guess insurance doesn't really come anywhere close to compensation.
Hey, just like real insurance!
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
278
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Posted - 2014.01.05 07:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
It is hit and miss, but worth taking when you expect to lose the ship.
I didn't get this when I started and was insuring everything left and right. Now I rarely insure anything unless I'm headed off into null or heading to a battle. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3510
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Posted - 2014.01.05 09:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anita Longwon wrote:Okay, I am a newb so maybe I don't understand these things. When looking for ship insurance, I was told that a quantity displayed was assumed to be multiplied by 1000 (ie: 5.00 ISK = 5000 ISK). Is that correct? Now I have this Imicus ship and got to the tutorial about insuring my ship and it shows me this: http://i.imgur.com/fetBxad.pngAm I to believe that a ship I just checked on the market to cost a minimum of 350,000 ISK when insured at the top PLATINUM level is going to pay me 5,000 ISK on my loss? Who's insuring these, State Farm?
You have a special edition ship. Which can't be build because there are no blueprints of it.
And insurance amounts are based on production costs (mineral value) as yours can't be build, it's a waste to insure your ship. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3510
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Posted - 2014.01.05 09:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anita Longwon wrote:Caterpil wrote:If you insured a normal imicus, then the platinum payout would likely be close to market value
Probably not. I talked to someone with a regular Imicus and they said the Platinum payout was 144K and the lowest-priced one on the market was 350k, not to mention the gear you'd lose. I guess insurance doesn't really come anywhere close to compensation. Hey, just like real insurance!
Because:
Insurance payout is fixed value of what the ship did costs at the point CCP updated the value of insurances against market values.
Then, if player market makes a ship more expensive....that's out of the reach of CCP. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Sid Crash
43
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Posted - 2014.01.05 10:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Here's how insurance works:
Insurance payout is based on the MINERAL COST of the ship. T1 ship prices are mostly governed by their mineral cost so there insurance sounds logical and can make good sense. Special ships (Faction, Pirate, T2/T3 and special edition) value doesn't come from the required minerals, it comes from the BPO/BPC, the effort and/or rarity. For those ships insurance will be out of whack.
In this case however CCP messed up a bit, probably because these ships can't be produced and thus there isn't any mineral amount linked to them, resulting in silly numbers. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1229
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Posted - 2014.01.05 10:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anita Longwon wrote:M'pact wrote:Yeah, special edition ships like that aren't really meant to be used -- they are basically collector's items.
No matter what the insurance is, I wouldn't recommend undocking in one, simply because people will be out to get you just to have a special edition ship on their killboard. That's pretty odd since this is a ship they give you in a starter package. M'pact wrote:The price and payout for insurance are exactly as shown, not multiplied by anything. That's even crazier because that means they pay out 5 ISK, not 5,000.
It's a special-edition ship, can't be built, only available as a gift from CCP. Sell it (it's worth more than the normal version of the ship usually) and buy the normal ships that insure sensibly. |
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3510
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Anita Longwon wrote:M'pact wrote:Yeah, special edition ships like that aren't really meant to be used -- they are basically collector's items.
No matter what the insurance is, I wouldn't recommend undocking in one, simply because people will be out to get you just to have a special edition ship on their killboard. That's pretty odd since this is a ship they give you in a starter package. M'pact wrote:The price and payout for insurance are exactly as shown, not multiplied by anything. That's even crazier because that means they pay out 5 ISK, not 5,000. It's a special-edition ship, can't be built, only available as a gift from CCP. Sell it (it's worth more than the normal version of the ship usually) and buy the normal ships that insure sensibly.
This.
Those special ships are just the normal ones with a special paintjob. But worth a bit more on market so you can sell it and then buy multiple normal ones for the same ISK. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
749
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Posted - 2014.01.05 11:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think it is safe to suggest to always insure your ship if you intend to PvP. As for PvE, if you are new to the game insurance generally might not be a bad idea as well as every time you "advance" to the next level of missions and/or try out a new ship but once you have some experience it probably won-¦t be worth it, especially if you fly something else than a T1 ship.
Also, if you go for insurance, always go for platinum. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Need to advertise your Corp or service? Look no further, this space is now for rent!
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Jack The Cracker
The Cronos Syndicate Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 13:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
To give you a simple idea of how it works, with the one exception of special addition ships.
1. Insurance payouts are based on mineral cost. ( special addition ships don't follow this rule )
2. Even with an UNINSURED ship, you still get a default payout of approx. 40% of the value of this ship!!!
3. Unless you PVP or do any HIGH RISK ops, ( flying a hulk at the wrong time of year *cough cough ) most players don't insure their ships.
4. If you live on a tight budget, it's often worth while to invest that little extra to insure your ship for those "just in case moments". Ie lag happens, you get stuck on a roid in a mish, neuts nab ya, ect ect ect. It's better to get 100m when you die from a freak accident than to rage quit because you only got around 40m because you didn't insure your ship before you popped.
5. Ship insurance ONLY covers your hull, not modules, rigs, ammo or anything else you have when you pop. |
Anita Longwon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.05 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack The Cracker wrote:2. Even with an UNINSURED ship, you still get a default payout of approx. 40% of the value of this ship!!! How can it pay 40% of the value if uninsured when the Platinum level pays only 40%? You must mean 40% of the "original" value they assigned to the ship.
I get all this. Thanks for the replies. I think the formula for insurance should be revisited.
It is being said that the value is based off the value of the raw materials needed to build the ship? This value is undoubtedly some outdated value as well because I doubt one could buy these raw materials and build an Imicus for anywhere near 144K. Some of the tutorial missions require you to turn items they expect you to manufacture, but I've found the cost for making them is ten times what you can just buy the items for on the market. Is there that much difference in the cost to produce items by an unskilled player and one with high manufacturing skills? I mean, are there people who can actually manufacture an Imicus for 144K? Sure, I know people can mine a certain amount themselves, but this too takes time and has to be accounted for.
My second thought is why in the world CCP would create starter packs for new players and
a) Give them a ship that is uninsurable?
b) Give them a ship they should never undock in?
I would think collecting ships would be something more delved into by experienced players than newbies.
Anyway, I'm not trolling here. It is what it is and I'm moving on. Again, thank you for the input. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
280
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Posted - 2014.01.05 17:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, the problem with insurance is that it is an isk faucet. It actually creates isk, while buying stuff only makes the isk change hands, even if your ship gets blown up, the isk is still around. So there isn't too great of an incentive to improve insurance without creating another, or increasing an isk sink elsewhere in game, so it's not a minor issue.
The benefits of the collector's ship is that it gives YOU a choice. You can keep it and have bragging rights later. Or you can sell it and jump start your eve gameplay. You can even fly it and gain the pleasure inherent in flying a limited edition ship, until someone blows it up.
Eve is all about choices and repercussions, not right or wrong. I don't suggest obsessing too much over the negative consequences too much. If you want to fly that limited edition ship do so. Don't feel like you can't fly it just because someone here advised against it. Just be aware of the potential consequences before you do so and accept them before you undock. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1229
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Posted - 2014.01.05 17:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anita Longwon wrote:I doubt one could buy these raw materials and build an Imicus for anywhere near 144K.
Roughly 350 000 ISK, with a well-trained manufacturing character and a good BP. Insurance isn't supposed to be enough to get you a replacement ship.
Quote:Is there that much difference in the cost to produce items by an unskilled player and one with high manufacturing skills?
Yes. 25% extra costs, not accounting for time and knowledge of where to get well-price minerals, etc
Quote:My second thought is why in the world CCP would create starter packs for new players and
a) Give them a ship that is uninsurable?
Insurance isn't required. I don't think I've insured a ship for at least a year now. Besides, it was a free ship.
Quote:b) Give them a ship they should never undock in?
You can undock in them. They're not priceless, unless you do something silly you're probably not at that much more of a risk than with a normal ship. If you don't want to undock in it, sell it for more than a base equivalent will cost and revel in your newfound wealth |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
1116
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would like to note this particular 'limited edition' ship is in no way more powerfull then a regular Imicus. If you were to lose it, your actual gameplay wouldn't be impacted if you replaced it with a regular one. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1654
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Posted - 2014.01.06 02:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
From a numbers point of view, insurance is worth purchasing if you feel the chances of losing your ship to any force other than CONCORD in the insurance period exceeds 50%. This is true in all ships.
Tech 1 subcapital ships (which are player-built mass-producible ships) give 'good' insurance payouts. Tech 2, tech 3, pirate faction and capital ships (player built but not as mass produced) have poor insurance payouts, but the 50% rule still applies. Ships never produced by players offer extremely poor insurance. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Wombat65Au Egdald
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.06 10:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'll just point out to the OP something they may not realise yet.
99.99% of all the ships in this gave were built by the players.
Someone got into a mining ship and collected ore from space rocks. Someone processed that ore into useable minerals. Someone used those minerals to build a ship, or a module for a ship, or ammunition. Someone made that ship or module or ammunition available to buy on the market place. Someone bought that ship or module or ammunition and used it to zoom around in space.
Those ships, the ones made by players, they have value for insurance. The ships made out of nothing by the game, are insured for nothing (although some rare gift ships are worth a lot to collectors in the game).
Players don't design their own ships, or modules, or ammunition, or any other buildable object. The programmers at CCP design all that stuff and decide what it all can and can't do, but it's us, the players, you and me. We get "blueprints" of things the programmers designed, and we get minerals and other things inside the game, and we build those ships and modules and ammunition and other things. We build them ourselves and then use them ourselves or sell them to other players to use.
There are some ships that players can't build, like your special edition ship, and a small amount of modules and ammunition are found as loot when players blow up game controlled pirates, but those are a tiny fraction of all the ships and modules in the game. The next time you're zooming around in the game, and you see a ship that isn't a beginner ship, a living breathing flesh and blood player somewhere in this game collected and processed the minerals to make it, and someone else built that ship, and someone else made the modules for it, and someone else made the ammunition for it.
Except for Minmatar ships, they're made from used chewing gum, bent paper clips and a could of broken plastic sporks. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
282
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Posted - 2014.01.06 11:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Wombat65Au Egdald wrote: Except for Minmatar ships, they're made from used chewing gum, bent paper clips and a couple of broken plastic sporks.
Duct Tape. Don't forget the Duct Tape. Gotta keep the ship airtight somehow.
Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
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