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Exeter Nardieu
Kid's Logistics Inc
2
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys -
I've made some other posts and am currently training into a Tengu. I can't find much current, specific information on this topic and I've been told there was a recent nerf. I'm a newerish player and wanted some clarification. I'm obviously training all of my missile skills to 4 or 5 and am going to get either HAM or HML specialization to 4 first to ensure I have the DPS output since all the other required skills and mods are also in my skill plan.
My question: For a Tengu and most other missile advanced cruisers, are HAM's or HML's superior? My uses will be primarily low-sec exploration and missioning. However, I want the ability to defend myself if necessary or take out another battleship or BC that I encounter doing missions (also PVE fit). I am eventually going to train both, but only want to train one or the other first.
Which missile would be more superior for my purpose? What is the benefit of one over the other?
I know HAM is closer range, superior DPS (but how much DPS?). The HML is longer range, lower DPS. However, I could see the range being a serious benefit in PVP and missions attacking outside of range. Also, what about for a full PVP fit Tengu? I could also see HAM with permarun AB doing a tight orbit on a BS and out-tracking its guns.
Pro's and con's?
Thanks in advance for your assistance! As I said, training both, but want to train one and train the other after getting started into it.
-Ex |
Dato Koppla
PillowFighters Inc Stealth Wear Inc.
467
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Posted - 2014.01.05 02:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
I personally like HAMs better as they have better damage application and far superior damage output. Also the range issue is easily solved by using Javelins which will give you really good range on range bonused hulls like the Tengu and the dps from Javelin is comparable to regular HMs. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1977
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Posted - 2014.01.05 05:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's a tradeoff, but it's one that HAMs increasingly win. I've mocked up a spreadsheet comparing options: Both are using my skills, 3% damage implants, Tengus identically fit save that the HM version gets a Rigor II where the HAM version gets a Bay Thruster II. Both are firing mjolnir missiles if you care; I tend to play mostly in BR space. All numbers look better in Serp/Gur/Angel space of course but the basic patterns hold.
Basically: HAMs win against cruisers (and are nearly very close on frigs) within Javelin range but CN HMs are ~10% behind in damage and get ~70% more range. Against BSs, Fury HMs win out to maximum range (~70km) down to CN HAM range (~36km). Rage HAMs can push out a whopping 38% more damage than Furies under 30km though.
If you want to fight within Javelin range and don't mind getting in to Rage range for hard targets, HAMs are clearly superior. If you want to apply damage out past 60km, HMs win.
Neither option will really be enough to "protect" you in low sec if you get jumped, mind. I'm skeptical either will be enough to gank a mission ship in an explorationish fit either. But for running DED 5s and 6s, there are your tradeoffs. |
Sid Crash
43
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Posted - 2014.01.05 12:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
First of all, don't believe the hype that Tengus are amazing, they're great in a very specific scenario but outside that they're not amazing at all. And all the stories you hear about awesome tengu solo pvp is a lie, they're not solo 95% of the time. In short; lots of people brag because they want to sound awesome and amazing.
Using a T3 as a lower SP player with limited experience isn't necessarily an issue right up to the point where you enter low sec or 0.0 with it because if you don't know how to avoid problems you're going to have to deal with them. And if you're lacking tactical & strategical insight, skill points and experience it'll go bad for you since an expensive ship with expensive mods won't save you from death and loss.
Having said that; the choice differs per scenario, if you're doing PVE in Caldari space then you'll want long range HML because if you don't you're going to lose tons of time chasing targets to get in range to apply your dps, and overall it means you're just better off with HML over HAM. If you're fighting short range NPC like Serpentis then HAM can make good sense because they like to get short range anyway. In PVP it, again, depends on strategy and scenario but overall I'd go for HAM unless you have massive gang links and a faction point.
But I still think you're asking "the wrong question", because a relative newbie in a pve fit T3 in low sec is a lossmail waiting to happen. |
Exeter Nardieu
Kid's Logistics Inc
2
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Posted - 2014.01.06 01:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Evening! I appreciate the responses so far. Sounds like HAM's will be my first train.
In terms of relative newbie with a T3 in low/null, I think that is a fair comment. I see lots of people that are doing the bare minimum to simply sit in the hull of a T3. I, however, have had a focused skill plan to train all of the support skills as well as primary skills to 4 and 5 plus specializations. I'm probably another 45 - 60 days out of flying it at this point and will be around 10-11mil SP (no industry).
In addition, I have spent a good amount of time in low-sec and null-sec with some PVP and mostly exploration/anoms learning the ropes of D-scan, local, intel, etc. I don't doubt that eventually I will lose a ship, but I am looking at all T2 cruisers for Caldari to start and then will be expanding out. Cloaky proteus for PVP after Caldari and Amarr T2 cruisers.
My only real goal is to run higher-end PVE sites that will provide me with significant income to support my PVP alt and have a good time with. I'm sure I will get taken out sooner or later, but its all good.
Thanks again!
HAM's it is!
PS...someone said the Tengu isn't that great...I am fully open to suggestions of other ships that can run anoms and exploration well (plus the interdiction nullifier is awesome) in low/null. I'm planning on carrying a mobile depot with my travel fit and my pve fit as needed. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
64
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Posted - 2014.01.06 03:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Best money is in wormholes. Join a wormhole crew, apply tengu to its fullest potential in sleeper sites.
HAMs work best there. |
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