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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
darius mclever
59
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.
so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it. |
aetherguy881
Malformed Entity C.L.O.N.E.
27
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:48:00 -
[182] - Quote
Theon Severasse wrote:Both of these things need to be stopped from being able to anchor in FW plexes, since they will essentially stop a lot of PvP from happening - who is seriously going to enter an FW plex that is scan cloaked unless they are in a blob?
FW plexes need fixed anyway... If this is going to be introduced and allowed in FW plexes, there need to be penalties to using it. Like no cloaking and the user can't utilize the Dscan. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8146
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:49:00 -
[183] - Quote
darius mclever wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons. so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it. Well they shouldn't. Nor should ships in bastion. Nor should cloaked ships. Nor should HICs with bubble or infinipoint active.
And the way to stop the MMJD from working should be, as suggested above, scramming it. My EVE Videos |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2397
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:52:00 -
[184] - Quote
just a thought: wouldn't it be more interesting if the MMJD would define the direction where the ship will jump? Like a micro acceleration gate. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Tertius Tallang
House Tallang Glorious Legion
1
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:52:00 -
[185] - Quote
Actually, how about "any type of targeted warp disruption used on the MMJD disables the structure for the duration"? It still requires you to have two points or two tackling ships, but it doesn't make non-scrams completely useless for counteracting it. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
649
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:56:00 -
[186] - Quote
1Robert McNamara1 wrote:MSI + Bubble = Nuli-T3 only effective combat probing platform.
Yep, nice job making one shiptype the only feasible option for a role.
Sandbox. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2824
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:56:00 -
[187] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:just a thought: wouldn't it be more interesting if the MMJD would define the direction where the ship will jump? Like a micro acceleration gate. This is a far, far more feasible and useful idea. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Itinerant Empire
238
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Posted - 2014.01.06 23:57:00 -
[188] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Vatek wrote:If a shiny new thing is far enough along in development to get an F&ID thread they will never ever scrap it so I look forward to having these new deployables forced on us with few (if any) changes. With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced.
Yeah, with 3 times the anchoring time and 10% the ehp it will only require 41 dps to kill it before it anchors, making it pretty balanced*
*useless in every use case |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2247
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 00:04:00 -
[189] - Quote
darius mclever wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons. so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.
I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
darius mclever
59
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:darius mclever wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons. so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it. I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in?
where their nose points to?
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Vivian Marcos
The Suicide Express
7
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:10:00 -
[191] - Quote
You say their are 3 belts in that direction the targets could be at. If there weren't MSI's there, there would still be 3 belts with a barge on D towards them. It would still require you to warp to each one, or to a planet and scan each of them. Now if your gate was close enough to have distingished the 3 belts before hand then ya, that stinks.
Also, i dont see how the MSI helps the hostil to get away. If it wasnt there then what? you scan his ship down (which is HARDER to do as possibly implied by fozzie) and he warps before you even land because he sees your probes? If he is a hostile in your system, aka you pretty much know who he is as he should be one of the few neuts in the system. Then you know his most probable ship and if he hotdrops. I suppose what I am trying to say is I dont quite understand how this mobile structure helps him so much, if he warps away from it as you warp to it then you can see him on D. If he is cloaked then nothin matters. Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips.... |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1003
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:13:00 -
[192] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Add-on: Do you really want to make the extremely expensive to fit Expanded Probe Launcher mandatory for intel gathering? Because that's what I'm getting here: an implication that solo pilots, or small gangs who cannot afford to sacrifice one of their pilots to tow around a scanning ship can... well... get dunked.
yes I agree.
But even with one or more dedicated prober... It's not relevant:
I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.
So will be something:
1. time consuming and boring like hell 2. uneffective 3. Even if you success (after 1-2 hours of pure boredom) in finding somoene will be most likely a trap and you'll run in a blob
Go figure...
People will give up even only to try.
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1046
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:19:00 -
[193] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Vatek wrote:If a shiny new thing is far enough along in development to get an F&ID thread they will never ever scrap it so I look forward to having these new deployables forced on us with few (if any) changes. With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced. Yeah, with 3 times the anchoring time and 10% the ehp it will only require 41 dps to kill it before it anchors, making it pretty balanced* *useless in every use case
The depot is far from useless, and it requires only 62 dps to reinforce, and it requires unfitting your lowslots to escape.
(62 dps happens to be smack in the middle of the range I gave) |
Vivian Marcos
The Suicide Express
7
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:20:00 -
[194] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Add-on: Do you really want to make the extremely expensive to fit Expanded Probe Launcher mandatory for intel gathering? Because that's what I'm getting here: an implication that solo pilots, or small gangs who cannot afford to sacrifice one of their pilots to tow around a scanning ship can... well... get dunked. yes I agree. But even with one or more dedicated prober... It's not relevant: I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times. So will be something: 1. time consuming and boring like hell 2. uneffective 3. Even if you success (after 1-2 hours of pure boredom) in finding somoene will be most likely a trap and you'll run in a blob Go figure... People will give up even only to try.
so you wait on field ratting until something pops up on d? you dont warp as soon as a hostile enters system proabably from a gate off D scan and cloaked up? or who hit cloak in the 4 secs it takes to be able to re-scan? I have seen more so where people tend to warp when you enter system or shortly after :(
Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips.... |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1046
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:20:00 -
[195] - Quote
darius mclever wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons. so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.
Ships in bastion are immune to scrams. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1003
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:21:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vivian Marcos wrote:I suppose what I am trying to say is I dont quite understand how this mobile structure helps him so much, if he warps away from it as you warp to it then you can see him on D. If he is cloaked then nothin matters.
The difference is that actually you don't need to have a prober to find people in belt, celestials, anomalies, FW plexes and missions. With MSI you will need it. Or you'll have to simple waprs around randomly.
It's a major nerf to gameplay.
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Sid Crash
47
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:21:00 -
[197] - Quote
Stop making more MJD related stuff, it's just another weird funky thing that'll be impossible to balance once ppl start using it in ways you never thought possible. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
4315
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:26:00 -
[198] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:Stop making more MJD related stuff, it's just another weird funky thing that'll be impossible to balance once ppl start using it in ways you never thought possible.
MJDs are the Eve equivalent to pounce, dash, teleport, and other traditional Dungeons and Dragons style gameplay. "I cast my magic missile at the darkness!"
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2878
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:30:00 -
[199] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote: I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.
How long do you think it will take you to lay down 100 MSI's around the system?
If you're assuming 20 seconds for him to warp - you're either talking about 10AU and up distance between them in a frigate.. right? Or did you mean shorter distances and assume he's in something more like a cruiser?
Well, first of all, to carry 100 MSIs, you're probably going to need an industrial (unless you plan to stop and pick up more from station), which warps as slow as a cruiser, so even a 1,000,000km warp (less than 1AU) will take you 21 seconds to warp. Let's also assume that you have bookmarks set up around the system, so you don't have to create your own.
So dropping off all 100 MSIs will take you, in that industrial, with perfect timing and no pit stops or bookmark making... half an hour to make.
That leaves you an hour and a half to do your ratting before they start disappearing and you need to replace them. Then you get to do it all over again with 100 more MSIs (at a cost of 100 million).
Meanwhile, the guy hunting you is using a covops (as fast as an interceptor) to find you. It takes less effort on his part to find you than it does for you to go through the motions of laying them all out.
Terrible idea is terrible. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1645
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:34:00 -
[200] - Quote
You should be very careful when introducing additional complexity onto a system that isn't quite understood in the first place, that you don't know the future to, and especially to a system that is way due for an overhaul.
In this case, intelligence (via local, dscan, probing) is definitely something that both the players and the devs know must eventually change. Do not try to fix a broken existing system or try to implement a bandaid solution without first completely understanding how intel should work on a massive scale because more often than not you will just end up causing more harm than good. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2256
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:36:00 -
[201] - Quote
darius mclever wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:darius mclever wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons. so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it. I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in? where their nose points to?
Your ship doesn't have a nose, and it doesn't point anywhere that it's not already moving toward.
Your ship is an invisible sphere roughly the size of your sig radius. That fun model that follows it around has no bearing on its movement or heading. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Rukh Solette
Solette Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:37:00 -
[202] - Quote
I think these will be interesting and am looking forward to seeing inventive ways of using them.
I do like the suggestion that was made that ships inside the MSI should lose the ability to dscan. The mechanic would be a lot like the ability of a POS shield to prevent targeting.
I also like the idea to make the MMJD jump pilots in one direction. Chasing a ship that uses a MMJD would be very difficult if you had to use the exact same vector that they did to jump after them. 25 ships using a MMJD could potentially end up at 25 different points on a sphere with a diameter of 200km. It seems more balanced to drop those 25 ships all in the same direction to give attackers a chance to follow them.
As far as the ability to use the MMJD while cloaked, I don't think this should be too much of an issue. You have to approach the MMJD and align your ship within a 500m space. If you're further than 2.5k, you can't use the MMJD. If you're closer than 2k, you aren't cloaked.
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
173
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:39:00 -
[203] - Quote
As a wormholer I like the idea of the MSI, but i can't really say the current implementation is something I see helping us at all.
1. Since the structure itself isn't hidden at all, this doesn't really help much at all when creating traps or attempting covert maneuvers. Any PVP corp worth their salt will assume there's a fleet with one and prepare as such.
2. 30 KM is large enough to cloak an entire PVE fleet running capital escalations, making it even safer to run sites than the discovery scanner made it. Proper warpins and webs usually has the BSs within 30 so in many cases youll never even know we are farming.
To that end I find the following a much better interpretation, and offer my suggestions.
1. Shrink it's radius down to 15, if you want to hide a larger fleet use multiple, make coordination required, 15 is also small enough your not running any sites hiding inside these.
2. Don't let the module itself be visible from D scan, if I am taking steps to hide the existence of my fleet, a billboard saying "HEY SOMEONES HERE HIDING THEIR FLEET" doesn't do me any good.
3. To counter the above, allow ships and the module to be scanned down via combat probes, and make it easier to do so.
4. Ships inside the field cannot see outside either, if your combat probing them they don't know it. Make everything hidden to their D scans.
5. Reduce their HP, I dont see the need for it to be so sturdy, its a fragile piece of electronics. This way IF people spam them ceptors/scanners can easily take them out.
tldr; Don't make it show up on D so everyone knows im hiding a ship, that makes it fairly pointless, and also wont make people resort to just spamming them to hide.
Carebears can use it to hide the fact that theyre farming, but wont know your scanning them down either. The Wormhole Kid |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Itinerant Empire
238
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 00:39:00 -
[204] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.
How long do you think it will take you to lay down 100 MSI's around the system? If you're assuming 20 seconds for him to warp - you're either talking about 10AU and up distance between them in a frigate.. right? Or did you mean shorter distances and assume he's in something more like a cruiser? Well, first of all, to carry 100 MSIs, you're probably going to need an industrial (unless you plan to stop and pick up more from station), which warps as slow as a cruiser, so even a 1,000,000km warp (less than 1AU) will take you 21 seconds to warp. Let's also assume that you have bookmarks set up around the system, so you don't have to create your own. So dropping off all 100 MSIs will take you, in that industrial, with perfect timing and no pit stops or bookmark making... half an hour to make. That leaves you an hour and a half to do your ratting before they start disappearing and you need to replace them. Then you get to do it all over again with 100 more MSIs (at a cost of 100 million). Meanwhile, the guy hunting you is using a covops (as fast as an interceptor) to find you. It takes less effort on his part to find you than it does for you to go through the motions of laying them all out. Terrible idea is terrible.
The MSI is going to have a 5 mil build cost, so his idea is actually 250 million ISK per hour |
STSxLight
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
111
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:45:00 -
[205] - Quote
Dear FOzzie i respect you and your work at CCP but please consider these simple ideas. I am looking at this module from the perspective of a solo/small gang pvper.
THe Mobile Scan inhibitor is gamebreaking....let me tell you why.
It afects important areas of space.
First of all FW space right now is the ideal place for new players to experiment pvp, and for veteran ones to test their skills in battle. The plex sistem allowed you to truly fight in a nice confined place, with the posibility to see what you will engage and to disengage when you se ships coming on short d-scan.
With this new d-scan disruptor it will change drasticaly, all farmers will use this, and a lot of people will blob using this mechanic thuss discouraging PVP. FW pvp will drop drasticaly, and you will loose a lot of small gang pvpers.
Oke now lets take a look at nullsec. Besides the blobfare,camps, and fast tackle interceptors with bubble imunity, a small fleet could recive intel via the d-scan and try to separate gans on field, or make a tactice to destroy the blob or the gate camp with pure tactice and game knowlege.
With the new stupid dumb awful disruptor you wont have any intel, eve if you have a scaning ship, a buble with ships,cans will anihilate that thuss eliminating any change of geting valuable intel to fight vs the blob.
So boom you are eliminatig a lot of solo/small gang pvp in null with this item because you are forced to bring scaning ship that will eventualy die because every device like this will have a buble in its range.
I havent got a lot of exp in WH but, d-scan is the most valuable EVE asset in WH space, so basicaly you are taking that away from them to.
SO with just one module you anihilate a lof of FW pvp,null pvp, and wh basic lifestyle, all with a simple item that you force upon us, please make new ship, pos,stations, ship modules, NOT these things wich will deeply impact a lot of game aspects that we truly enjoy in one sweep. "Oh, you think nullsec is your ally. But you merely adopted nullsec; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!"
my eve youtube channel-á http://www.youtube.com/user/stsxlight/videos |
Rukh Solette
Solette Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:46:00 -
[206] - Quote
Also, as far as spamming MSIs goes:
5m/unit, 50m3/unit, 2hr life
Reducing the chance of somebody warping to you on the first attempt to 10% using 10 MSIs costs 25m/hour. Worth it?
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Rukh Solette
Solette Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:51:00 -
[207] - Quote
I propose the following change to the Mobile Scan Inhibitor:
Continue to block the ability to see ships within the MSI bubble on D-scan, but:
Give Combat Scanner Probes the ability to detect the number of ships in the bubble, but not the type.
For example, I see a MSI on dscan. I drop probes and scan it down, I see signatures for 12 ships of unknown type.
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Laventhros Ormus
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
9
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Posted - 2014.01.07 00:52:00 -
[208] - Quote
LEARN TO ADAPT
That is all. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4718
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 00:58:00 -
[209] - Quote
I can't help but wonder where my Mobile Local Disruptor is. One could argue it would be more useful than the directional scanner thing. . |
STSxLight
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 01:01:00 -
[210] - Quote
Oke lets take a look at the Micro Jump drive.
Initialy it sounds good, but when you take a deep perspective on it it is NOT.
NOW all of eve pvp revolves around Rock Paper Spock combat. Let me explain, as a brawler you try to dps the hell out of other ships from close range, or separate a gang killing them one by one than escaping, thus requiring a lof of skill. A lot of brawlers as you well know learn to SPiral and Slingshot catching the kiter, developing true piloting skill.
Now the kiter evolves its skill by manual piloting, managing ranges, and keeping brawlers or other kiters an range, or as you have see in many pvp video and situations sperating large gangs and killing them. This is viable both solo and small gang fleets wich is the true beauty of eve.
With this item placed strategicaly a brawler will always escape a KIter thuss distroying the balance. Trust me every brawler will have one and every brawler ratter etc will escape a kiter. Now the new meta prefers sniping nano kity stuff, so basicaly the prey will always be able to escape, if lets say a profecy fleet gets bubles and shot by nagas at range the simply deploy these things and you only need 1 active to escape.
The main concern is giving the brawler the means to escape efectly the kiter. You give the Rock the means to Counter Paper in every situation DAMIT.
How about sniping fleets and the I AM THERE trailer , catching a sniping fleet providing a warp in is nice, now a sniping fleet can deploy these and even if you are brave avoid 200 km of fire and get a warp in, the fleet can now MWJ away dosent matter if they have a mJD or not.
So basicaly its another small module that discourages small gang pvp, even fleet pvp, both modules giving people huge means of disengaging.
Please hear me ut and read the arguments, You are efectivly giving more means to pilots to evade pvp, this is EVE it suposed to be a crue dark place, where not eve in highsec you are not safe yet you encourage Disengaging from pvp more and more.
For what? only to have funn with new modules? to test the modular items? STop making suck game breaking things and focus on the important this wich are and have always been space ships themselfs. Not 100 floating items in space.
Best regards STS. Sry for my spelling just woke up and saw this horrible ideas of modules.
You are inteligent fozzi stop making these. Let us pvp and burn our ships, let us teach noobs how to d-scan and get intel o n the field.
Let us REMAIN THE HUNTER stop giving the prey means to escape making the game easymode. "Oh, you think nullsec is your ally. But you merely adopted nullsec; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!"
my eve youtube channel-á http://www.youtube.com/user/stsxlight/videos |
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