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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2006.04.02 17:47:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 02/04/2006 17:47:43 Bab 5 is probably better because its got a balance of ships rather than a single carrier left. But yeah, those two do space combat well.
On point 1. more powerful=/more reliable.
Its like overclocking a graphics card, yeah it works, but you may regret it a year later. Look at t2 crystals, they break and have penalties. Basically higher tech, means you need more maintenence.
On the 'they dont get bigger' that is a point for not haveing more crew... one of the things I dislike about t2 is that they basically are 6 or 7 major advancements from better generators to better miniturization to allow more to fit in the same hull. Something really is wrong with that picture... but I will maintain that LESS crew is not an option.
God is with us. PIE Website |
Antiochus Laetus
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Posted - 2006.04.03 22:20:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Quote: There Enteprise was always a terribly crappy combat ship.
Actually, it was a rather adequate combat ship, however its primary role was not combat, it was a Science/Exploration vessel, a Galaxy-class cruiser.
The primary combat ship of the Federation Navy was the Constitution Class Battleship (the USS Constitution being the most known one), which would slap down the Enterprise and make it its red-headed stepchild.
Before you go on about my nerdness, I had to verify that with someone way more nerdy than I am.
Now you're getting confused.
James T. Kirk's Enterprise NCC-1701 was a Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser, classed above the Destroyers, Scouts, and Transport/Tugs. The "battleship" of the day was the Federation-class Dreadnaught. A Federation-class starship could perform the aforementioned smackdown upon the Constitution-class Enterprise, but not the Galaxy-class Enterprise, which I will get to in a second:
Jean-Luc Picard's Enterprise NCC-1701-D is a Galaxy-class Explorer, classed above Cruiser, Cargo Carrier, Tanker, Surveyor, and Scout. The Galaxy is the closest thing the Federation has to a battleship in that time period.
Do NOT tangle with me on this subject, I have the relevant Technical Manuals to fall back on if my knowledge ever does fail.
Not to get totally off topic, but first, I thought the Soveriegn was a battleship or is this to far outside the relevant time peroid? (I'm no trekkie/trekker; whatever)
--------------------------------->>
Why cant ships have limited crews, with androids or AIs that is specifically set for that ship alone, like Andromeda. That actual ship (after the 301yr gap) was supposed to be crewed by 5000 people but was reduced to a skeleton crew of AIs and androids including Andromeda herself. I believe I only ever saw 6-7 people, a plethra of droids and talk about getting nanobots to fix damage.
For a limited crew such as that, that ship was able to lay down some seriouse pain. A comparison can be made between the android Andremoda and a pod pilot, as she was able to control any function on the ship at will, because she was the ship's brain; just as a pod pilot becomes the ship's brain.
If someone has already posted the reference including Andromeda, I apologize, as I did not read every single post.
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.04 00:05:00 -
[63]
Federation is peacefull and has no purpose built battleships, however their explorers are oddly well armed for just scanning space dust.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.04 01:11:00 -
[64]
And looked much better, might I add. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.04 01:11:00 -
[65]
The Sovereign-class took the place of the Galaxy-class. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Lillith Blackheart
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Posted - 2006.04.04 13:27:00 -
[66]
Yeah, the Sovereign was darn pretty in comparison to the Enterprise and such.
Me.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.04 15:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart Yeah, the Sovereign was darn pretty in comparison to the Enterprise and such.
Well the Enterprise NCC-1701-E was a Sovereign-class starship. But yeah, Sovereign > Galaxy. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Lillith Blackheart
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Posted - 2006.04.04 16:33:00 -
[68]
Isn't the Enterprise E the one that only showed up in one episode, specifically that one season/series finale that involved the wedging of the Enterprises from all of the alternate timelines into one segment of space?
Or is that a different one? The one with the Cutting Beam and more weaponry than could ever be needed and a cloaking device. The one commanded by Commander Riker. "We'll draw their fire." And then obliterated half of a Klingon fleet in the span of about eight seconds?
Me.
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Fushen Asagiri
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Posted - 2006.04.04 16:57:00 -
[69]
The Series Finale did feature a super-tech III version of the Enterprise, as described, commanded by a then admiral Riker. However, because that was an alternate future, that ship never came to pass. In the movies they introduced the Sovereign class starship as the new Enterprise after crash landing the saucer section and having the engineering half get blown to bits.
Fushen
Just remember, the fact it almost exploded still means it didn't! --- "Fusion" Asagiri after a particularly harrowing space battle... |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.04 17:28:00 -
[70]
"Star Trek: Nemesis", I think it was. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.04 19:25:00 -
[71]
the Enterprise-E is in First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis
the super enterprise was still the D but majorly modified and was seen in the final episode of TNG "All Good Things", this enterprise is also featured in the computer game Birth of the Federation as the "Galaxy-X" class.
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Lifepe
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Posted - 2006.04.04 22:18:00 -
[72]
well this thread has strayed somwhat off topic, however having read some of the stuff said it would be cool not to mention the effect it could have on game tactics if you could target ship systems and preform boarding actions, perhaps giving some use to the marines you can buy on the market other than trading them or using them for agent missions. Liberal Socialism the way of our future. |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.05 01:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lifepe well this thread has strayed somwhat off topic, however having read some of the stuff said it would be cool not to mention the effect it could have on game tactics if you could target ship systems and preform boarding actions, perhaps giving some use to the marines you can buy on the market other than trading them or using them for agent missions.
Marine squad leader: Captain Lifepe, we have boarded your ship! Surrender now! Lifepe: *vents all atmosphere to space* Marine squad leader: Goddamnit, this never works *suffocates* -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Lifepe
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Posted - 2006.04.05 10:49:00 -
[74]
as funny as that is they could have vac suits and if they'd boarded assuming no teleport technology they would have had to deal with a vacume to start with. Liberal Socialism the way of our future. |
Tsual
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Posted - 2006.04.05 11:40:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tsual on 05/04/2006 11:46:03
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker course the important question is, can we instapop a ship using projectile ammo by scoring a direct hit to the Magazine...........
This from a sniper tempest will shred your indie in one salvo, the crew doesn't even have time to notic the breaking apart of the ship.
Sovereign class comes with inbuild manual joystick steering provided by Logitech or Saitek I think.
******************** Tsual - Highly ore adddicted.
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Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.04.05 18:19:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Michiyo Daishi on 05/04/2006 18:19:26
Originally by: Antiochus Laetus Why cant ships have limited crews, with androids or AIs that is specifically set for that ship alone, like Andromeda. That actual ship (after the 301yr gap) was supposed to be crewed by 5000 people but was reduced to a skeleton crew of AIs and androids including Andromeda herself. I believe I only ever saw 6-7 people, a plethra of droids and talk about getting nanobots to fix damage.
For a limited crew such as that, that ship was able to lay down some seriouse pain. A comparison can be made between the android Andremoda and a pod pilot, as she was able to control any function on the ship at will, because she was the ship's brain; just as a pod pilot becomes the ship's brain.
If someone has already posted the reference including Andromeda, I apologize, as I did not read every single post.
Laetus brings up a good point in this. True we could have crews even in T2 ships, but could they really be actual people or android automatons controlled by say, a combination of your skillset + Aura's central AI core?
I see that possibility to be entirely real, having an actual skeleton crew + huge numbers of automatons does sound more feasable if you ask me. Actual skeleton crew takes care of automatons/Aura, automatons take care of the more menial tasks.
------------------ seeking freedom... |
Lifepe
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Posted - 2006.04.06 00:24:00 -
[77]
tahts a very good point and would explain why the pilot has to learn skills such as gunnery, that is in order to controle the AI on board the ship. Liberal Socialism the way of our future. |
Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.06 02:17:00 -
[78]
i kinda view ship crews in the same way as a NASCAR pit crew, while they arent directly involved with operation of the car, without them it wouldnt run.
in EVE terms this means while the pilot flys and aims and fires the guns the crew keeps them reloading and makes sure the engines stay going. without them the ship is dead in space as i doubt a pod pilot can rebuild a warp core on the fly.
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2006.04.06 04:25:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 06/04/2006 04:32:28 Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 06/04/2006 04:30:35 Give me one example in actual PF of an AI capable of working on the level you are describing?
I cant think of anything that would even imply that AI constructs capable of the needed level of thought to replace humans onboard a warship exist in EVE.
On training: Its not a problem to have crew and skillpacks:
Training isnt training you to hands on operate the gun, your pilot most likely wouldnt know what to do if he was manually targeting the thing from the turret, but rather it is training on how the gun operates and on how to use the weapon effectively. So when you train Large Laser, you are takeing a course in how to handle large lasers from the bridge, which is another thing entirely than knowing what needs to be done to the laser's physical turret to allow for it to keep fireing every three seconds indefinitely, thats the crew's job.
God is with us. PIE Website |
Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 06/04/2006 04:32:28 Give me one example in actual PF of an AI capable of working on the level you are describing?
I cant think of anything that would even imply that AI constructs capable of the needed level of thought to replace humans onboard a warship exist in EVE.
On training: Its not a problem to have crew and skillpacks:
Training isnt training you to hands on operate the gun, your pilot most likely wouldnt know what to do if he was manually targeting the thing from the turret, but rather it is training on how the gun operates and on how to use the weapon effectively. So when you train Large Laser, you are takeing a course in how to handle large lasers from the bridge, which is another thing entirely than knowing what needs to be done to the laser's physical turret to allow for it to keep fireing every three seconds indefinitely, thats the crew's job.
Think of Aura's ability to give a clear and concise tutorial. I would certainly think she can handle at least teams of AI constructs doing the same job at the same time :P
------------------ seeking freedom... |
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2006.04.06 13:16:00 -
[81]
Clearly you are recently arrived in Eve and do not remember the days when Aura was the most likely culprit to getting you podkilled after you lost a ship. I wouldn't want it running my key systems.
"I see you've sustained critical reactor damage! This indicates an imminent loss of ship! Would you like me to load a lengthy tutorial window while you are panicking and trying to escape with your life?"
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Tsual
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Posted - 2006.04.06 20:45:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Tsual on 06/04/2006 20:47:51 [OT]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
"I see you've sustained critical reactor damage! This indicates an imminent loss of ship! Would you like me to load a lengthy tutorial window while you are panicking and trying to escape with your life?"
To be honest I'd go for option b: "No, nacked chicks so I don't mind dying, thanks!"
Though the unclothed T'Pol is a real alternativ. [/OT]
******************** Tsual - Highly ore adddicted.
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2006.04.07 19:56:00 -
[83]
A tutorial that isnt really interactive in any way=/a fully capable AI that can actually act as an independant entity and make up for haveing human minds on the spot.
Basically though we have PF on crew, we DO NOT have PF on AIs of that level.
God is with us. PIE Website |
Jack Folstam
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Posted - 2006.04.07 20:44:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Jack Folstam on 07/04/2006 20:45:39 Well, we do have AI on the level of maintaining ships independently (relativly), and i'm speaking of Rogue Drone Dominixs, surely they must have some way of preforming internal maintinance, even though they don't need life support. Also, there are the rogue drone bunkers and such, as well as gigantic constructs (Lesser Strain Mother, for one) that would need maintinance, and it is impractical to have mobile drones that preform those tasks. Thus, it is not unthinkable that the empires would not have something less advanced for their own ships... some sort of tiny maintinance droid that can go where people can't, such as aforementioned "gumming up" of the armor and hull repair nanobots.
EDIT - and if we have nanobots that naturally know where to go to fix armor and hull, wouldn't it be a relatively simple matter of making larger internal maintinance robots?
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2006.04.08 07:52:00 -
[85]
Not more efficient though. And rememebr the rogue drones have made themselves and the totally machine-created ones are presumably more advanced technologically than anything we make. -------------- Director. Caldari Patriot. Murderer of (his own) Frigates. |
Lifepe
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Posted - 2006.04.08 09:06:00 -
[86]
Why hasnt then any attempt been mad to use this technology in a business enterprise? Suerly that would be an easy way to hop forward technologically..... Liberal Socialism the way of our future. |
Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.04.08 11:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jack Folstam EDIT - and if we have nanobots that naturally know where to go to fix armor and hull, wouldn't it be a relatively simple matter of making larger internal maintinance robots?
See? The idea of AI constructs standing in for the majority of a ship's crew isnt farfetched if you take this idea into account.
------------------ seeking freedom... |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2006.04.08 12:37:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 08/04/2006 12:41:18 Eh, not really. Nanite controls are almost primitive. Modern day nano-experiments involve appliances like simple levers and engines operated through basic binary switching. I doubt a nano-repairer can solve an equation or anything, it's just a pump that channels self-assembling engines to a damaged area and activates them when it is time to fill a gap.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.09 12:27:00 -
[89]
"And rememebr the rogue drones have made themselves and the totally machine-created ones are presumably more advanced technologically than anything we make."
Which, given the complete lack of brains on human-made drones in EVE ain't saying much, really... ;s
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Dugan Lee
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Posted - 2006.04.09 14:40:00 -
[90]
Don't forget we need people to fit our ships and load the ammo when we are docked.
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