Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
625
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Gallente-Caldari Relations have always been tense, but recently it would seem that the hostility between the Gallente and the Caldari has been easing up. Is this a sign of things to come in the future? Perhaps one day the people of the Federation and the people of the State will no longer view the other as enemies, but rather as technological and economic rivals, both racing towards the future to the benefit of all humanity. It's an optimistic view, but I for one would like to see the animosity between the Caldari and the Gallente dissipate.
What are your thoughts on Gallente-Caldari relations? Do you think they will improve, and do you want to see them improve? If not, for what reasons? Here's to a completely civil discussion. Cheers!
I imagine as long as men and women at the highest echelons of power in both our respective nations can profit from such conflict that relations between the Federation and State will remain...tense...at best. The situation on Home may have eased things but a more permanent solution will need to be addressed eventually.
I myself would like to remain optimistic as well, but as they say, only the paranoid survive. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
728
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Constantin Baracca wrote:So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not. An insightful and telling observation. But I think many within the Federation, including myself have long past the point where we consider an amicable peace possible. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
|
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
745
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 18:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Constantin Baracca wrote:So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not. An insightful and telling observation. But I think many within the Federation, including myself have long past the point where we consider an amicable peace possible.
If you've decided that already, James, you may have made yourself correct. Never lose the faith in your fellow man. The Federation and Caldari may have heated issues that will never be forgotten, but trust me that they don't like to kill and die any more than the next man.
As easy as it is to be cynical, the universe slowly moves towards cooperation as we become more civilized. It's just a long process and we, as capsuleers, are directly involved in the more conflict-driven processes. Nobody calls a capsuleer to help build a hospital, after all, we're seen largely as tools of destruction rather than people. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
622
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 19:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
People, for the most part, just want to be able to live their lives in relative peace and comfort. The State and the Federation are currently in an wait-and-see phase, I think. The Federation is watching what goes on in the State after Heth's reign, and the State is moslty just cleaning house and figuring out how to move on with the Federation after Heth and Operation Highlander and the Caldari Prime DMZ. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3033
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 20:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
If the Caldari Prime arrangement were really enough, I doubt the lowsec war would still be going.
Don't let's mistake volume for sentiment here. Plenty of people have voiced their anger through silence and quiet menace rather than bluster and shouting.
For my part - and I speak only for my part... Haajakiin taalen - we returned. I respect the service and effort of my countrymen who continue to fight, but given that there seems to be something that resembles a vaguely stable agreement over Home that has some semblance of being acceptable to both sides, I really don't have any idea what the war is for nowadays. What more do we stand to gain or lose?
Haki tavatastsa daa suu moitten.. I don't see the profit in it. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3144
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 20:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Improving relationships with the Federation would open markets for Ishukone I would assume. With further assumption this would allow Ishukone to generate more revenues which would not only benefit them but their standings in the Caldari State.
So my conclusion would be a win / win situation for both Ishukone and the Caldari state.
Your opinion is not only correct but is the very reason why the Caldari State is organised in the manner that it is. So that the right thing can be done, even if it is unpopular and without requiring the sort of bloody revolution that a centrist state would need to alter it's direction so radically.
It pains me to see that some of those raised within that system seem to have forgotten it. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3144
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 21:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:If the Caldari Prime arrangement were really enough, I doubt the lowsec war would still be going.
Don't let's mistake volume for sentiment here. Plenty of people have voiced their anger through silence and quiet menace rather than bluster and shouting.
For my part - and I speak only for my part... Haajakiin taalen - we returned. I respect the service and effort of my countrymen who continue to fight, but given that there seems to be something that resembles a vaguely stable agreement over Home that has some semblance of being acceptable to both sides, I really don't have any idea what the war is for nowadays. What more do we stand to gain or lose?
Haki tavatastsa daa suu moitten.. I don't see the profit in it.
I have a missile guidance technician called Havaima Tsuurtsen. He's Civire, like me, and his family were one of the original colonists sent out to the Enaluri system. Respectfully, suuolo, his family is the reason he's out here. Because, to certain people, Black Rise ought to be Gallente space and the tyranny of the many is ready to descend from the borders at Ichoriya all the way to Urpiken constellation if we don't fight.
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3033
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 23:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
I stand illuminated. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2893
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 23:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:I stand illuminated.
Stop stealing the limelight, Stitcher. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3033
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 01:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
It's more of an ice blue rather than lime, surely? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2897
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 01:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Oh, right. It seems my color settings were off kilter! Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Xindi Kraid
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
699
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 04:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Constantin Baracca wrote:So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not. That's just standard Corporate rivalry. A little competition keeps us on our toes and moving forward.
As for Caldari Gallente relations. I can't say they are really improving all that much; we don't seem to like each other any better, but the conclusion of the Caldari prime thing has resulted in less vitriol thrown about which should allow for relations to potentially improve some.
The proxy war going on will probably stall improvements some, though. |
Xindi Kraid
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
699
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 04:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I have a missile guidance technician called Havaima Tsuurtsen. He's Civire, like me, and his family were one of the original colonists sent out to the Enaluri system. Respectfully, suuolo, his family is the reason he's out here. Because, to certain people, Black Rise ought to be Gallente space and the tyranny of the many is ready to descend from the borders at Ichoriya all the way to Urpiken constellation if we don't fight.
Indeed that is part of the reason the proxy war still continues. It was sparked for political and social reasons. Caldari and gallente don't like each other, and some people on either side gave a little push and violence erupted, but now that it's started, everyone wants land. On top of that, the more sociopathic of the capsuleers (who are the main fighting force) are doing it for their sick enjoyment. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
648
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 16:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote: And, this, Gesakaarin, is why Ishukone manages the majority of Caldari Prime, and you are, as Tuulinen put it, in the muck and the blood.
Have fun with that.
Yes, you have a knack for profiting from the hard work of others. It is an honest compliment, because it takes some skill to pull this off, and at least in this case it's for the better of all caldari, although one should remember how it came to this situation in the first place, because if not for your dear primitive colleagues you'd still be sipping tea, pining for the days of yore, when we actually were able to set foot on Home as more than mere guests. Well, maybe you'll choke on what you're sucking for it, maybe not, only time will tell. In the meantime I'm blissfully busy being kneedeep in blood and muck, because that still feels like a cleaner job than yours. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
623
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 19:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
I recently spoke with a capsuleer within the State's militia. He too did not see the point in this war, but said the pay was so good that he did not leave the militia yet. He also mentoined that most of the militia consists mostly of pilots who are in it for money and/or piracy. Talking about morale issues...for some reason, he also mentioned he was going to rob his current corporation within the militia. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate |
Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
256
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 20:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
A fascinating story, i'm sure. |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
728
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 20:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Constantin Baracca wrote:James Syagrius wrote:Constantin Baracca wrote:So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not. An insightful and telling observation. But I think many within the Federation, including myself have long past the point where we consider an amicable peace possible. If you've decided that already, James, you may have made yourself correct. Never lose the faith in your fellow man. The Federation and Caldari may have heated issues that will never be forgotten, but trust me that they don't like to kill and die any more than the next man. As easy as it is to be cynical, the universe slowly moves towards cooperation as we become more civilized. It's just a long process and we, as capsuleers, are directly involved in the more conflict-driven processes. Nobody calls a capsuleer to help build a hospital, after all, we're seen largely as tools of destruction rather than people. As a man of faith, I would think you know in whom to put your trust. It isn't the practical mechanics of the conflict that lead me to despair, its the philosophical underpinnings of it.
But perhaps your correct.
Lets hope so. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
|
Ailer Stane
Reclamation Technologies
23
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 21:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
It has taken me some time but I have read many of the past postings made by the primary contributors to this forum regarding "peace". To say that individual views regarding the conflict and possibility of peace have evolved is an understatement. I am most troubled to see that some have lost hope in even the possibility of peace. I would humbly suggest to my Federation comrades that seeking peace is the morally right path, to my State friends the honorable one. Being thus both right and honorable shouldn't we together strive toward that happy and eventual reality? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3148
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 22:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ailer Stane wrote:It has taken me some time but I have read many of the past postings made by the primary contributors to this forum regarding "peace". To say that individual views regarding the conflict and possibility of peace have evolved is an understatement. I am most troubled to see that some have lost hope in even the possibility of peace. I would humbly suggest to my Federation comrades that seeking peace is the morally right path, to my State friends the honorable one. Being thus both right and honorable shouldn't we together strive toward that happy and eventual reality?
You're talking to the wrong people, my friend. I, for one, would gladly set out in search of peace tomorrow - but the fact is that militia pilots don't control that process. We don't get to decide when peace will happen - politicians do that. |
Ailer Stane
Reclamation Technologies
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 02:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Ailer Stane wrote:It has taken me some time but I have read many of the past postings made by the primary contributors to this forum regarding "peace". To say that individual views regarding the conflict and possibility of peace have evolved is an understatement. I am most troubled to see that some have lost hope in even the possibility of peace. I would humbly suggest to my Federation comrades that seeking peace is the morally right path, to my State friends the honorable one. Being thus both right and honorable shouldn't we together strive toward that happy and eventual reality? You're talking to the wrong people, my friend. I, for one, would gladly set out in search of peace tomorrow - but the fact is that militia pilots don't control that process. We don't get to decide when peace will happen - politicians do that. With sincere respect I disagree. Without the participation of the individual factional militia pilot, there is no proxy war. The very act of individual participation, past the point of personal revelation to the contrary, demonstrates the individual participants approval of the endeavor at large. Please don't mistake me for a blurry eyed idealist. I understand the pull to defend ones own against attacks both real or perceived. But it remains in the end an individual act of choice. |
|
Jace Sarice
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre ZT-07K Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
24
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 06:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ailer Stane wrote: With sincere respect I disagree. Without the participation of the individual factional militia pilot, there is no proxy war. The very act of individual participation, past the point of personal revelation to the contrary, demonstrates the individual participants tacit approval of the endeavor at large. Please don't mistake me for a blurry eyed idealist. I understand the pull to defend ones own against attacks both real or perceived. But it remains in the end an individual act of choice.
It is absurd to equate an individual choice to participate with individuals being the cause of the conflict. The underlying causes of the conflict exist regardless of an individual militia member participating. In order for the militia members themselves to directly instill peace, all of them would have to choose not to participate. This is then no longer an individual action, but an aggregate one that is out of the control of each participant. |
Ninavask
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 06:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Here is hoping tensions do disappear and a mutual peace can be worked towards. Dr. Ninavask Revan CEO - Commander The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Edgar Audeles
Iron Fold
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 06:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ninavask wrote:Here is hoping tensions do disappear and a mutual peace can be worked towards.
And here is my glass raised to this. We all bleed red in the end and its disheartening to hear war still grips my home and the home of my good friends. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3149
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 16:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ailer Stane wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Ailer Stane wrote:It has taken me some time but I have read many of the past postings made by the primary contributors to this forum regarding "peace". To say that individual views regarding the conflict and possibility of peace have evolved is an understatement. I am most troubled to see that some have lost hope in even the possibility of peace. I would humbly suggest to my Federation comrades that seeking peace is the morally right path, to my State friends the honorable one. Being thus both right and honorable shouldn't we together strive toward that happy and eventual reality? You're talking to the wrong people, my friend. I, for one, would gladly set out in search of peace tomorrow - but the fact is that militia pilots don't control that process. We don't get to decide when peace will happen - politicians do that. With sincere respect I disagree. Without the participation of the individual factional militia pilot, there is no proxy war. The very act of individual participation, past the point of personal revelation to the contrary, demonstrates the individual participants tacit approval of the endeavor at large. Please don't mistake me for a blurry eyed idealist. I understand the pull to defend ones own against attacks both real or perceived. But it remains in the end an individual act of choice.
I do understand the emotions behind what you're saying, but my colleague says it right when he points out the impossibility of the decision being made in the manner that you suggest it be made in. The fact is that as long as the signatory nations decide the war is worth the money, there will be militia freelancers willing to collect it.
Money is the sinew of war. Shut off the money and end the war.
|
Nicolas Merovech
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
125
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 16:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
N'maro Makari wrote:To soon to tell.
I concur. In my experience, diplomacy between the two happens on a knife's edge. One shift from the center, and all of it comes crashing down. Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Lieutenant of-áThe Synenose Accord |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5704
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 18:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Oniseki-Charantes-haani, your point may have been too subtle for some of our kirjuun to notice. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2899
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 18:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Oniseki-Charantes-haani, your point may have been too subtle for some of our kirjuun to notice.
It happens. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3149
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 19:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Oniseki-Charantes-haani, your point may have been too subtle for some of our kirjuun to notice.
Her pun, you mean? |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2899
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 19:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Oniseki-Charantes-haani, your point may have been too subtle for some of our kirjuun to notice. Her pun, you mean?
Don't worry about it. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
747
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 23:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I do understand the emotions behind what you're saying, but my colleague says it right when he points out the impossibility of the decision being made in the manner that you suggest it be made in. The fact is that as long as the signatory nations decide the war is worth the money, there will be militia freelancers willing to collect it.
Money is the sinew of war. Shut off the money and end the war.
Also, it's simply a matter of what drives the war. If it were really about a principle of governance or a matter of security, the war would have been quick, it would have been bloody, but it probably would have been resolved by now. Unfortunately, the war isn't necessarily a war of principle per se (though some of the belligerent pilots are probably fighting it based on principle). This war was essentially legislated, its boundaries defined, its most important assets removed from harm's way, and then it was decided that it would continue indefinitely.
Let's say that all current combatants suddenly ceased fighting on a whim, leaving the systems where they were. If even one pilot flies in, he could essentially take over all of those systems. All of these systems not only have valuable mineral resources, but in a lot of cases people actually are still living in them. That's simply unacceptable to either side, depending to which party our hypothetical capsuleer belongs. So someone will inevitably arrive to make sure this doesn't happen, then someone else would arrive to make sure the pendulum doesn't swing the other way, and so on until we are right back where we started again.
Add to that, our hypothetical scenario would never work. For some, this is a business opportunity but for others this is simply an outlet for their racial hatred or political outrage. I've often wondered if this latter group of capsuleers is why the two legislated wars continue. It keeps us busy hating each other rather than looking back at the injustices of our own empires. You know, some people in government think we're blindly violent.
And so the war shall continue, never-ending, back and forth, eating up resources, with the power to do anything about it essentially completely out of capsuleer hands. They can stop fighting, but they'll never end the war. The legislation is such that the CEWPA essentially mandates an infusion of military assets just to make sure that the battle lines don't move too far in one direction or the other. If the armies stop, if we as capsuleers just decide we won't play the little game that the CEWPA zone has become, it would only take one pilot to essentially own it all. Thus shall we all continue to sacrifice to the blood god that CONCORD preaches for in the name of "peace".
And there isn't anything any of us can do about it. Our leaders are completely prepared to continue this ritual in perpetuity, essentially holding these systems hostage and threatening to hand them over to the "enemy" if they do not fight tooth and nail for them. It's sad that these areas have already become desolated by this action. Shipping into these areas has become expensive, given that any factional members are subject to becoming valid war targets, so the prices have been driven up. That's as profits have gone down. The constant swing back and forth of governmental control in those areas has meant that anyone that isn't involved in the warfare have removed anything of value. The economies of these places are now wholly dependent on the war and the only ones making enough money to eat there are the pilots.
At first, I couldn't believe anyone would participate in this sham, but Pieter is completely right. Not participating would be to hand any Caldari in the system to the Federation in his case, and to hand all of those systems over to their control. And the Gallente are in the same position. Even if they would stop tomorrow, dividing those systems straight down the middle and letting all bygones be bygones tomorrow, they can't. It isn't up to them; it's now interstellar law. The warzone will remain exactly where it is, under the exact same threat, until a treaty puts an end to all this foolishness.
Until then, those capsuleers can only ferry their crews out to die. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |