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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1077
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
Var D'ovoli wrote:Froggy Storm wrote:Just in my small opinion the 'price of death' argument is a systemic problem with MMO's in general. The early games were far more brutal in many ways. I know I am dating myself but I remember a particularly bad night in an eq hell level. Set me back a week or more worth of hard effort. But the games (perceived) value was so much higher because of the invested efforts. Not for it being made easy but because it was hard and there was significant loss.
We as a gaming culture are not doing any favors when we push for ever less value to our time. Yet another +1 I love the fact that you have to spend lots of time learning skills to fly a particular fit on a ship. I also like that to become effective in PVP you have to gain experience by actually fighting. If CCP were to ever make EvE as easy as some of the other MMO's out there (I can think of one in which your vehicle has tracks and armor) it would be a huge waste. Part of the resaon that I love EvE is because it's not "easy" and there is no instant gratification.
Well if eve hat HIT locatiosn like that game.. that would be interesting :) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
672
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:54:00 -
[152] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:The solution is simple, stop flying ships with stupidly expensive fits that make you worth ganking. Like the cost of a vict.. er, target ever mattered to me? Or to many fellow gankers? Doesn't have to be an expensive target to draw a gank. It only needs to be flown stupidly.
Andski wrote:Mojo Joo wrote:They don't need to manage any criminal flags because they never go under -5 security status, thanks to security tags, and after ganking, all they need to do is to dock their flashy pods for 15 minutes, then just repeat repeat the process...
Is not very easy indeed, but people learn fast, and if you rely just on players incompetence as main fix for game mechanics then something is very wrong... did you know that going from -5 to 0 security status costs a ton of ISK and that security tags are in limited supply? I grind my own tags - Doesn't take all that long, really. And it pays my costs whilst I'm popping them big rats, besides. Not super fast, I'll grant, but hey, it's a break from chasing dummies about and teaching them to fly smarter.
Omar Alharazaad wrote:and if you make it a big enough pain in the arse to gank you they'll also probably move on to an easier target. There's no shortage of targets out there... that is, unless you insist on flying something so valuable it really makes the extra time, effort and coordinating WORTH it. Now THIS is generaly true. Usually.
Kagura Nikon wrote: LIES.. the absolute majority of the successful PVPers and long term players staerted in pvp within a few days of joining the game.
Not always so. I was a miner and bot-aspirant. Then a mission-runner, then a wannabe industrialist and inventor before climbing up into a WH. I've come *very* late to ganking and small-blob roaming. My original Main is more than five years old, though he sits almost entirely disused any more. And yeah, I did take a multi-year break in there, but I've been active more years than I was inactive. CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace! -á~ Me |
Ekkentros Mercari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.01.15 22:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
Mojo Joo wrote:You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship. Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution. She flirts with the solution, then dismisses it as silly.
If there's no way you can defend your mission running faction battleship in HiSec, then you shouldn't be flying a mission running faction battleship in HiSec. TL;DR: Don't reply. |
trader joes Ichinumi
Straightedge and Compass Industrial The Crimson Tower
13
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:05:00 -
[154] - Quote
Cybercrusher wrote:I think this is unbalanced with mining ships. Orca and other mining ships do not have good defenses. I had all my drones from all 3 mining ships and 2 ships took all 3 of my ships, this is not very balanced. I do think that mining ships should be immune from Webifiers and Warp Disruption. I say this because they are slow and can not get away from the bubble of the field before they are taken out. This make it very easy for anyone to take you out. Bottom line there needs to be something out there that would help miners out. Please look into this or if there is something out there, then I have not found it and would like to have someone help me with that. Thanks.
Mining ships choose not to have good defenses. A DCU and being at your keyboard will literally double an orcas tankiness. Mining orcas die because they fit cargo extenders instead and halve their tank. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
558
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Posted - 2014.01.16 05:04:00 -
[155] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Haedonism Bot wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Si1viu wrote:The main niche for almost all new players in EVE are the PVE and mining activities. EVE is a very hard game with a very abrupt learning curve, so as new player he cannot go to do PVP before he learn some part from very complex game mechanics, or he will be crushed and killed till he will give up and move to another game. If you want to make them life a hell and cut to chance for a lot of players to get used with this game just for the sake of few hundreds of gankers, then go on. LIES.. the absolute majority of the successful PVPers and long term players staerted in pvp within a few days of joining the game. I don't know if there are any statistics to justify that, but I have the same impression. I continued to mine/PVE for some time when I was a new player, but I was also joining E-Uni PvP fleets and running around trying to hero tackle war targets within a week of starting the game. My impression is that people who think they need to get all their skills trained up to a certain level before they PvP tend to never feel like they are ready and just keep on PVEing until they get bored and quit. Also, Si1viu, you completely missed the OPs point. He isn't concerned about new players. He is upset because he thinks that new players in cheap ships should not be able to gank older players in expensive faction battleships. Read the minutes of the last CSM meeting. They state the oens that go deep into PVE, the classical way before doign anythign else usually do not even stay long in game.
Ehh.. sorta. This is not a single player game. Most players who quit simply burn out due to boredom. Everyone I have ever met IRL who played this game quit because they didn't have fun, because running missions and/or mining wasn't fun. I myself played and quit this game twice before I decided to play despite whatever happens.
So, the idea, rather the hope is that through non-consensual PvP other players who would otherwise spend their time running missions, and/or mining solo, or in a small, probably fail highsec corp and would never learn about other mechanics.. making them better players, will see that there are other avenues to experience. This is how I was first introduced into PvP in Eve Online and it's been a great experience ever since for both losses and kills.
Now, let's assume we find someone who is a mission runner, right? He gets ganked. There will always be one of two reasons why he got ganked. One, he was afk on a gate and someone/people got bored. Or, he had an expensive ship/fittings.. or both. This is besides the point, however, the point I'm making is.. let's say he wasn't interested in joining the ranks of PvP and he didn't like that experience very much. He should, at the very least, look into why he was targeted and make the necessary adjustments to help reduce the possibility of it happening again. The people who don't do this are the idiots. But from my ganking career in this video game I can say that most people who get ganked do change for the better/learn something about Eve.
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1078
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:28:00 -
[156] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Haedonism Bot wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Si1viu wrote:The main niche for almost all new players in EVE are the PVE and mining activities. EVE is a very hard game with a very abrupt learning curve, so as new player he cannot go to do PVP before he learn some part from very complex game mechanics, or he will be crushed and killed till he will give up and move to another game. If you want to make them life a hell and cut to chance for a lot of players to get used with this game just for the sake of few hundreds of gankers, then go on. LIES.. the absolute majority of the successful PVPers and long term players staerted in pvp within a few days of joining the game. I don't know if there are any statistics to justify that, but I have the same impression. I continued to mine/PVE for some time when I was a new player, but I was also joining E-Uni PvP fleets and running around trying to hero tackle war targets within a week of starting the game. My impression is that people who think they need to get all their skills trained up to a certain level before they PvP tend to never feel like they are ready and just keep on PVEing until they get bored and quit. Also, Si1viu, you completely missed the OPs point. He isn't concerned about new players. He is upset because he thinks that new players in cheap ships should not be able to gank older players in expensive faction battleships. Read the minutes of the last CSM meeting. They state the oens that go deep into PVE, the classical way before doign anythign else usually do not even stay long in game. Ehh.. sorta. This is not a single player game. Most players who quit simply burn out due to boredom. Everyone I have ever met IRL who played this game quit because they didn't have fun, because running missions and/or mining wasn't fun. I myself played and quit this game twice before I decided to play despite whatever happens. So, the idea, rather the hope is that through non-consensual PvP other players who would otherwise spend their time running missions, and/or mining solo, or in a small, probably fail highsec corp and would never learn about other mechanics.. making them better players, will see that there are other avenues to experience. This is how I was first introduced into PvP in Eve Online and it's been a great experience ever since for both losses and kills. Now, let's assume we find someone who is a mission runner, right? He gets ganked. There will always be one of two reasons why he got ganked. One, he was afk on a gate and someone/people got bored. Or, he had an expensive ship/fittings.. or both. This is besides the point, however, the point I'm making is.. let's say he wasn't interested in joining the ranks of PvP and he didn't like that experience very much. He should, at the very least, look into why he was targeted and make the necessary adjustments to help reduce the possibility of it happening again. The people who don't do this are the idiots. But from my ganking career in this video game I can say that most people who get ganked do change for the better/learn something about Eve.
But that is the point. If you get into PVP Very soon, you are ready for it, You will not rage quit (at least less likely) when you are ganked. Because you were more in connection with the reality of the game.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Zosius
United System's Commonwealth
39
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Posted - 2014.01.16 11:59:00 -
[157] - Quote
Came to the thread for tears. Left satisfied
to OP: If it's so easy, 0 risk, why don't you do it? When you divide payout per pilot involved, take out ship costs, take into consideration all coordination needed, time taken scouting for targets, waiting for the right moment, risk operating -10/or costs of tags to go clean and then kill rights hanging.. in the end it's not such great isk/hour as you think.
Please continue playing EvE. Food chain always needs food. And stop quoting about CCP business model, when you have no idea what it is. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
71
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Posted - 2014.01.16 14:54:00 -
[158] - Quote
This guy did the auto pilot to the system he perished in. I was there to gank a specific hauler, but after watching him sit there and do nothing for over an hour I got a few friends to fly Amarr, buid ships and fly them out to the site.
So.... this guy could have evaded the loss by simply warping away at any time in the hour it took me to get irritated at his ship just sitting there, or simply warping away in the half hour it took to convince my buds to come pop him, or simply warping away during the 45 min of travel/build time to get the involved ships in place. Those are series times, so assuming he landed just a split second before me he had over 2 hours to do ANYTHING. Had he not taunted me with his afk for over an hour I wouldn't have noticed him.
Who is to blame for this?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21412391
There was a similarly fit (isk wise) CNR right next to him, but my wife calling me to bed (I get up early for work) was more appealing than doing a lap to amarr to get more BC. We could have doubled down on this guy but our 'lazy' won out over his 'lazy'
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:33:00 -
[159] - Quote
Zosius wrote: ]in the end it's not such great isk/hour as you think.
In fact, the isk/hour ratio is horrible if you just go about ganking untanked miners for instance... That's the onlyy criteria I use: can I blow it up with one or two cats with a reasonable chance of succes? |
Debra Scully
Imperial Phoenix Legion
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:51:00 -
[160] - Quote
I don't mine much these days, but my barges are always tanked and have ECM drones out, and no mods more valuable than T2. If I see or even suspect gankers in local, I still switch to a Procurer just in case. My mission runner is mostly T2 with just a couple faction mods for fitting purposes. I have only had one gank attempt against my mining barge ever (it failed), and no attempts against my mission runner. Of course I am still at risk, but there are always softer and juicier targets out there.
Stop whining and take some responsibility for your own safety. |
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Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
560
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
But that is the point. If you get into PVP Very soon, you are ready for it, You will not rage quit (at least less likely) when you are ganked. Because you were more in connection with the reality of the game.
My bad, miss quote.
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet |
Merrc
Shrike Technologies
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:01:00 -
[162] - Quote
Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot? |
Paranoid Loyd
313
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:10:00 -
[163] - Quote
Merrc wrote: Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot?
The looting alt would be available to engage for at most a few seconds, that combined with the need to know when and where the gank will happen makes your idea quite difficult.
Your idea is certainly not impossible, but highly unlikely as it takes less effort to find and execute your own target then to follow around gankers that are well aware of their surroundings and would probably abort if they caught wind they were being followed.
Loyd's Loot: Items for sale in Dodixie |
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:35:00 -
[164] - Quote
Merrc wrote: Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot?
The gal that hauls for my small time ganking crew has been attacked on any number of occasions. So far, she has evaded destruction, although she had a very close call to to a persistent, and intelligent, capsuleer the other day. She is using a T1 Industrial.
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Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
181
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 01:13:00 -
[165] - Quote
I just realized that the OP used the word "massacre" and doesn't understand what it means. Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
psycho freak
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
273
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 01:44:00 -
[166] - Quote
Lol
some ppl farm npc
some ppl farm ppl who farm npc
my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |
Ekkentros Mercari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 02:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Merrc wrote:Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot? Yes. There was a great blog post , last year I think it was posted that described the mistake of some idiot that was trying to carry a PLEX. It turned out that the pilot had just looted it from a wreck and got popped before he could enter warp.
I've tried looking for it, but I can't find it. I can't even remember which blog it was on. TL;DR: Don't reply. |
Forando
Interstellar Cowards
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 04:50:00 -
[168] - Quote
Really? I don't get the OP's argument here. But then again, when I joined, everyone was eager to teach me the following mantra: "Never fly something you can't afford to lose".
In EVE, ships are temporary. Undocking, is pretty much your consensus that you allow it to eventually turn into beautiful fireworks. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3242
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 06:27:00 -
[169] - Quote
I suggest that the OP confess all of his sins to James 315, buy a mining permit, and embrace the Code. He can read more at www.minerbumping.com See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Renegade Heart
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 06:37:00 -
[170] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest that the OP confess all of his sins to James 315, buy a mining permit, and embrace the Code. He can read more at www.minerbumping.com
Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null?
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Ekkentros Mercari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:37:00 -
[171] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest that the OP confess all of his sins to James 315, buy a mining permit, and embrace the Code. He can read more at www.minerbumping.com Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null? No reason why not. As long as you can enforce it, why not govern it? That's what James 315 did and it's worked out pretty well for him and his ilk. TL;DR: Don't reply. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
186
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:42:00 -
[172] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest that the OP confess all of his sins to James 315, buy a mining permit, and embrace the Code. He can read more at www.minerbumping.com Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null? Well the attitude could use some improvement, but you probably could pull it off in a constellation or maybe even region. To go past that you would need a substantial force. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
522
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Posted - 2014.01.17 20:14:00 -
[173] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null?
Sure, Goons do it all the time.
Really, you didn't know? Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
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Renegade Heart
Come at me bro 123
84
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Posted - 2014.01.17 22:47:00 -
[174] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Renegade Heart wrote:Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null? Sure, Goons do it all the time. Really, you didn't know?
Yes 3 times they tried scamming me |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
752
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:58:00 -
[175] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Renegade Heart wrote:Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null? Sure, Goons do it all the time. Really, you didn't know?
Isn't that what renting is? everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com |
Ricter Chimera
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 16:15:00 -
[176] - Quote
I wasn't going to chime in here.. Because I really don't have a leg to stand on, being in the game for a total of a whole month, but after chewing on the arguments that were presented, and doing some cross-forum reading, and the like, I think I may have.. something to say
Let's use this as an example:
I live in a gated community. Said community is patrolled hourly street by street by a private security company. All of a sudden there is a murder, an armed robbery, etc.. .in the community. Does that mean that The community needs to be redesigned so that NOBODY other than residents can get in? No. It means that people need to still take precautions to prevent things from happening.
Now, let's look at another example, and a very common one in our history
The Mafia, the goons, the hit squads, all being controlled by a crimelord or Don, or Leader of some form or another. Now every cop in town knows that the crimelord is behind all these murders, pillages, etc.. But they don't do anything about it.. Why? Because guess what? (back then anyway, and maybe some today as well) Public Officials have been bribed, elected officials bought, and political corruption runs rampant. Yes, cops are going to respond, but as soon as those bribes are made, they stop their pursuit.
Put those two things together, throw some spaceships in there, and what do you have? Criminals entering a high-security area, and doing as they please, then bribing officials (tags) to look the other way. Sure the cops (CONCORD) may respond, but as long as they get out in time, and then pass those bribes along, oh well..
It's the same darn thing. I'll be the first to admit that I suck at PvP. (I think I'm getting better, but only time will tell) But I know enough to keep myself alive, and it's simple common sense. Don't drive the Rolls Royce in the Hood. And if you absolutely have to, make sure you are always aware of your surroundings. Yes I've lost ships. Yes it's frustrated me to no end. But do I go to the local politicians, or the governor, or mayor, and complain that things need to be changed or I'm leaving? No, because in the grand scheme of things, that certain body (in this case, the developers) have a lot more to worry about than a single person in a population of great numbers. I'll likely be told "There's the Door, don't let it hit ya where the good lord split ya"
Instead, I treat every loss as a learning experience. What did I do wrong? What wasn't I paying attention to? Those two questions have gotten me far, and I bet they will you too.
my .02 ISK
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Corthon
Bar Noir Standing United.
4
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:27:00 -
[177] - Quote
What a incredibly amusing thread. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1875
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:40:00 -
[178] - Quote
Corthon wrote:What a incredibly amusing thread.
I think we all love it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec outside rookie systems, obey the New Haliama Code of Conduct or else the New Order will gank you. www.minerbumping.com for more info. |
Fumika Karusaka
Karusaka Family
5
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:10:00 -
[179] - Quote
After reading through this whole MESS....... I gave some thought as to what I want to say:
OP you have made your point in the first post, subsequently you have tried to force your belief of what this game should or should not be onto the community at large, by making groundless statements and baseless facts.
I now ask you on behalf of the community at large to unsub your account and go play something else. It would save you a lot of time and energy and it would save me from having to read through threads such as this one, or alternatively you could keep playing EVE Online and enjoy it for what it is, preferably while not complaining about things.
Best Regards Fumika Evil is not just an alignment, it's a perspective |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1339
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:47:00 -
[180] - Quote
I like making other people cry over exploded pixels, it says a lot more about them than about me :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
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