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hola baby
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Posted - 2006.03.20 23:51:00 -
[1]
HAVE YOU HAD CORP HANGER THEFTS HAPPEN TO YOU,, DO YOU WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO DEAL WITH IT, FED UP OF WASTING YOUR MONEY PAYING FOR A GAME THAT ALLOWS OTHERS TO STEAL FROM YOUR EFFORTS
all i ask is that you simple write to ccp asking that they introduce a hanger audit log, yes i know you can use secure audit containers, but do you know any ships that can be put in one and i know you can resrict access to the ships hanger,, but as all ceo's know you have to sleep sometimes yet your corp base need access for when your not there, ships represent some of the largest isk investments a corp can make and we should and need a way of protecting those investments against melicious actions, i'm not asking for kill rights just basic infomation that should be readily avaliable, on who takes what and when would you expect to take a car worth 30k out of the dealership without providing any identification or a signiture, how about a something as large as a battleship/ carrier or a freighter without even record of handover enough is enough,, we need to have this issue addressed
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.20 23:52:00 -
[2]
IIRC, Audit Log containers don't even show who took it, only who put it in .
Hangar audit logs would be a great idea. Doesn't stop thefts, but at least it tells you who did it.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.21 00:01:00 -
[3]
I'd approve of this. I'd really like to know where some of our disposable cruisers disappear off to, instead of having to look through 80 different hangars.
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Wanoah
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Posted - 2006.03.21 00:07:00 -
[4]
Yeah, hangar audit logs sound good on the face of it. Corp theft tends to be a bit consequence-free in most cases. The main objection to this that I can think of is that will be just another incentive to use disposable alts to do the job (like there isn't enough already).
I think that theft is an important aspect of the game in terms of the freedom of choice that Eve gives us as players, but the biggest shame is that it is undermined by the use of alts. I don't have any answers to that, and I've yet to see any genuinely satisfactory ideas from other people.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.03.21 00:46:00 -
[5]
there's alot of **** CCP could do that would pretty much nullify all but the most powerful corp thief.
However, they haven't done so yet, and the system heavily favors the thief right now.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Raven Aure
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:05:00 -
[6]
Yes, this would be helpful but there are still ways round this.
We use station cans to split up most of our stuff. We lock the expensive stuff. Or use an additional "read only" hanger. We then make sure that we have a decent management so that there's always someone on who can unlock/give an item to a memeber who needs it. Simple really. ______________________
Never mix corp politics with rl friends. |
Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:42:00 -
[7]
./signed
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:43:00 -
[8]
I agree, but also don't give access to any members but the highest up.
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Nina Kharn
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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:46:00 -
[9]
signed.
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Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: hola baby
and i know you can resrict access to the ships hanger,, but as all ceo's know you have to sleep sometimes yet your corp base need access for when your not there,
As a corporate CEO, I'm telling you to take some freaking responsibility instead of making excuses.
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Sonos SAGD
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Posted - 2006.03.21 04:35:00 -
[11]
best thing you can do to prtect your self is to not let new people have the good stuff
this is the layout i have for my hangers that i picked up from my first corps i was in
rookie(this is full of t1 stuff usally under 1 mil isk, the stuff noobs can use or cant use for a month veteran(Named stuff, cheap t2 stuff after they have proved them selfs to be trusted they have acess to take themselfs Elite(stuff that the ceo and directors have in there as more of a sotrage like ships or really good stuff that are corp assets BPO( only ceo and really trused people can take from this since you can drop minnerals in this hanger and right click build and it will build with out acess to take the bpo if they have the builder acess materals( ore minerals ect) assests(normally i put stuff like drugs and commoidities here
they key is not to risk what you dont want to lose to corp thiefs just like the ship rule, while i agres that that is not always possible and sometimes even if you feel you can trust someone they can still burn you but i would think that most corp thiefs could get impatient after a while and if they cant use mods after some time you have to wonder why the skills arn'yt getting trained
but auits would be nice just to see what corp members are doing what
(ceo of a 1 man corp, just giving opionion of what i saw as a person in other corps) -----------------------------------------------
I refuse to show you my real signature unless you give me isk |
Jatar Poli
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Posted - 2006.03.21 04:41:00 -
[12]
Signed
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0August0
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:14:00 -
[13]
Signed . . . Regards, August Soldier of the Gooch |
Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.03.21 07:32:00 -
[14]
Maybe get audit trails on hangers if you pay extra rent. It's a lot of extra data to store and personally I'd never use it.
For security ID your High Value Assets (HVAs) and secure them. For instance lock your BPOs away and issue BPCs to production. Issue ships direct to members as needed instead of leaving HVAs laying around.
Changes I would like to see that would actually improve corp security (rather than IDing the now dead alt that robbed you) are:
1) Object level permissions. For example, If I want somebody to be able to collect items from corp delivery hangers I have to give them accounts access which means wallet access. I shoudl be able to choose one or the other.
2) Divisional accounting. That way I can give say mining a hanger and a budget seperate to the main corp account. They can sell minerals to production who pay out of their budget then sell output to freight who take the goods to a region and sell at a profit to their department. Not only would this allow better risk management with assets but would show which departments were performing.
Some of this can be handled with ISK holding alts but a proper corp accounting system would be much much cooler.
Next stop, shares.
>> RECRUITING << |
Exuscon
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Exuscon on 21/03/2006 09:02:02
Originally by: hola baby HAVE YOU HAD CORP HANGER THEFTS HAPPEN TO YOU,, DO YOU WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO DEAL WITH IT, FED UP OF WASTING YOUR MONEY PAYING FOR A GAME THAT ALLOWS OTHERS TO STEAL FROM YOUR EFFORTS
all i ask is that you simple write to ccp asking that they introduce a hanger audit log, yes i know you can use secure audit containers, but do you know any ships that can be put in one and i know you can resrict access to the ships hanger,, but as all ceo's know you have to sleep sometimes yet your corp base need access for when your not there, ships represent some of the largest isk investments a corp can make and we should and need a way of protecting those investments against melicious actions, i'm not asking for kill rights just basic infomation that should be readily avaliable, on who takes what and when would you expect to take a car worth 30k out of the dealership without providing any identification or a signiture, how about a something as large as a battleship/ carrier or a freighter without even record of handover enough is enough,, we need to have this issue addressed
Think you need to work out a better recruitment policy and access privs.
Those type of folks that would steal from their own corp are the lowest of the low, I will not argue that.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:02:00 -
[16]
agreed but CEO is hopeless at the corp managment side of UI improvement
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Exuscon
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:03:00 -
[17]
Yeah more corp and better management options would be nice.
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Gal'tashec
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:15:00 -
[18]
/signed
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hola baby
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:23:00 -
[19]
Thankyou all for your comments and support in this issue then main problem isnt necessarily items but ships. we have several containers which require passwords to protect the items themselves so i know they are secure and traceable. however the ships hanger is basicallya free for all. it was and is only accesable buy "loyal" members and in regards to recruitment we havea minimum age of one month and a 1 month low level hanger restriction, with further access rights being given after the first 30 days dependant on how they have behaved,, so our losses were caused by some lil scrote who is a long term member, i find it frustrating that you have to maintain a high level of paranoia and assume everyone is out to rip you off as you simply have no way to check what has been done in your own corp..(( the only current solution involves asking each member to give us his password and log in name so we could look at all the transaction records for his characters,, which is a ethically wrong and b against ccp rules
paying for the extra data would be a worthwhile option for all corps as it would easily be recouped by the items and ships not being borrowed, yeah you can serch through members hangers but hey how can you tell if the 2 thorax's they have spare are yours, not ones the player bought ? what can you do ,, do you assume they are the missing 2 ships and just not trust the guy you have been flying with for 2 months? we NEED help with this
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:39:00 -
[20]
We have a simler set up with all player beeing "rookie" till they 30 days old, but even then i amek sure that they are online at least 2 or 3 times a week, to get the "member" role, you would be suprised at how many people join a corp and you never see them again.
Would be nice to have a more powerfull to set availbe to us, rather than have to pick best fit roles.
At the mo ocpr hanger acesse is not much of a problem, becuse of are size, and that any think worht nicking is locked away where only i and directors can get at it.
What i do find very lacking is the lack of documentation, two line of text telling me what the role does, does not tell me what rights i am about to give away, more info on what rights come with what roels woudl be great. ----------------------------------------------
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:59:00 -
[21]
trusting your members is your responsebility not CCPs they said that lots of times
there are changes comming, they have probably already fixed this "issue" or atleast given you tools to handle things like this better. just wait for Kali and the comming patches after it
--------------------------- 4. i like pizza |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:04:00 -
[22]
in terms of sleeper agents if they havent been seen in 3 weeks then they get booted - hence a data available to CEOs on the corp member info would be days since last login . SO if a member hasnt logged in for 22 days then u will see this data and if u set a minimum active level and they arent seen and the days since last login info shows 28 days then u boot em
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Meathook
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:05:00 -
[23]
Trying to add some ideas on this topic, one thing i'd like to see as well is some form of remote secure container auditing.
Whilst it is true you can designate a trusted corp member to do 24/7 station management, let's face it, it is a pain for that person, and unless there's really good teamwork, it is quite hard to achieve.
Someone that can remotely keep track of a secure can audit log would work better. This really won't prevent a theft fully, but at least, if you are in the other corner of the universe 30 jumps from any office with valuables it enables you to prevent theft from the rest of divisions if you are quick. It also makes more sense to me for those corp members you grant roles for auditing (not that it doesn't work atm, but unless reminded, few people check the logs often when docked at an office, or even remember how it is done). ________________________________________
"Parental advisory: Explicit typos" |
Melkor Bloodaxe
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:15:00 -
[24]
Place the "shareable"-ships in a hanger which members can see, put stuff in, but not take out. Give a couple of folks, who you as CEO fully trust, access to take (and share) the stuff.
This way it's perfectly traceable who has the ships. (But never 100% sure ofcourse...) This is ofcourse limited, cos the person who borrows can sell/give the ship to a third person. But at least the borrower can be hold responsible.
And if he wants to borrow when no hanger-accessed ppl are on... well: tough luck.
--- 49. Fares Hrym from the east / holding his shield the Mithgard-Worm / in mighty rage scatters the waves / screams the eagle his nib tears the dead / Naglfar loosens.
[Voluspa] |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:38:00 -
[25]
Good idea, CCP please add this to the (shrudder) next patch...
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
We are not ebil forum police, for one thing I don't have a hat :( - Cortes |
hola baby
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:38:00 -
[26]
That the set up we have
unfortunatly as you say not 100% secure if we had ship hanger logs then at least we would know who the perpitrator was and could take action to be honest we are fortunate enough that the loss hasnt damaged the corp financialy , just on the trust side, enough so that it nearly ended the corp as the only members that had access are long time and trusted guys, and some are r/l friends and work collegues others are guys who have been in the same corp for nearly a yr i guess as a carebear miner my moan is not the value of the ships but the man hours and joint corp ops done to get the minerals to build/ buy it,, people used to moan about ore thieves,but with that you at least had a clue who it was,but consider how many cans of ore go into building a simple cruiser
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville
Originally by: hola baby
and i know you can resrict access to the ships hanger,, but as all ceo's know you have to sleep sometimes yet your corp base need access for when your not there,
As a corporate CEO, I'm telling you to take some freaking responsibility instead of making excuses.
agree...
plus the contract system in kali will "fix" most of your problems in this area. Currently do not view the corp hangar as member property. give them one or two hangars where they can chuck items anyone can take if they want to... basically junk hangars.
lock all bpos - this is the thing i would like fixed though - please PLEASE add a functionality to multiselect and lock blueprints.. doing it one at a time is not only painful .. it gives a new meaning to the word vampire.
DONT use the corp hangar for any items you dont want to lose... that is, set up your access and corp shares so that you DONT have to go on trust because the only people you can really trust are your RL friends.
period... end of story... . -Fate is what you make of it. -Make your own fate using T2 items produced by The Fated
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El'hith
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:48:00 -
[28]
/signed....
also i really think POS's should give you the option to 'lock down' ships so they cant be accessed without the password for them, to prevent ships been stolen....
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:52:00 -
[29]
Not that I'm defending corp theft, but for many small corps like myself that focus on industry and profits we often have very little chance of retaliation against PvP or pirate corps that target us. Theft and sabatoge are the only weapons we have and using alt characters and parading as newbies is probobly the most effective way to get into a corp.
A hanger audit log would be nice, but it would not prevent this type of action nore would there be any real consequences since its an alt character.
You have to see the game world in context. Peaceful corps playing the economic side of the game have very little recourse against piracy, random ganking, ore theft and all the various ways corps out there make their money by praying on other players and corps. For peaceful corps theft, sabatoge and economical power are the weapons and hence corp theft is easily one of the most effective forms of retribution. I realize its not a very nice thing to do, but neither is ganking a defensless freighter.
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Heinrich Klaus
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:13:00 -
[30]
This would be nice.
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