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Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships? |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2396
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
NApoc needs pretty good skills, tengu is better for lower SP players because it's quicker to train for and it has good tank and damage. Legion is also great but people always say it sucks. I'm not sure why really. Oh god. |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? |
Sid Crash
73
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scios Severace wrote:As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships?
First of all you need to realise that a battleship in and of itself isn't a goal, you could play for 10 years, never fly a BS and do fine. If you're looking for a ship that can run lvl 4 missions really well then yes a battleship hull generally makes sense. When do you want to run missions (which is a choice, there's no "must run missions" in EVE) then you have to take damage types into account which depends on where you do PVE. If you do missions in Amarr space then ships using lasers will work fine, if you do missions in Caldari or Gallente space then they're mediocre at best and if you live in Minmatar space they're terrible. So, first make sure that you NEED a BS (based on what you want to be doing) and then account for WHERE you'll be using it in PVE.
I'll list the 4 factions and most obvious newbie friendly ships
Amarr: (n)apoc, easier to fit than the Abaddon but doesn't perform as well (doesn't really work well on low SP) Armageddon, really good sentry ship that allows for damage type selection (so it works fine everywhere)
Caldari: Raven, easy to use allround lvl 4 ship. Not fantastic mission completion times and only "ok" dps Scorpion NI: Exactly the same dps as a normal raven but more tank
Gallente: Dominix, awesome sentry ship, works on low SP
Minmatar: Maelstrom, good allround ship Typhoon, better missile ship than a Raven but has similar issues
The Tengu is not as good at ppl brag about. First of all it's forced into kinetic damage type which is only ideal against Guristas (when only looking at the main npc factions). Against Serpentis and Angels it's mediocre and against Sansha it's outright horrible. Same for its tank really, it works great vs Guristas and serpentis but is kinda problematic against Sansha.
Also, it has no drones and that means you waste dps time from your main weapon system to take out frigates which is a waste. The realistic dps isn't brilliant either. On top of all that it's an easy and obvious gank target and would you do missions in Blood raider space it gets neuted out really fast (being a cruiser).
So, just forget about the Tengu, it's not brilliant at all (apart from some limited situations like doing anomalies in Guristas space). It's funky and expensive and thus generally people go "cool, hurrrdurrr" without understanding or acknowledging (f)actual game mechanics.
For missions the Legion is a pile of shite, dps with HML is terrible and range with HAM is also terrible. Avoid. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1213
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Posted - 2014.01.13 15:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
napoc is arguably one of the best amarr bs for low sp, but like most laser ships, kinda sucks against non-em weak enemies.
Tengu is the most versatile pve ship in the game. It has a monstrous tank, however it needs good missile skills to shine, and is relatively weaker against sansha and blood raider compared to other rat factions. It is a good level 4 runner, but battleships are generally better for level 4s. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
What other options would I have with a NaPoc rather than missions? |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
325
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
The NaPoc? Not much. Faction BS hulls are generally not flown in PVP. However the skills would translate over to a PVP Abaddon or Apoc quite well. However I would recommend the Punisher or Omen for learning PVP. |
Sid Crash
73
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Posted - 2014.01.13 17:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Realistically Battleships aren't used much at all outside missions, incursions and 0.0 fleet combat. A Napoc wouldn't be used for anything other than missions (and even there it's not the best option because that'd the Abaddon, Nightmare or Paladin). It's just a Napoc that requires less SP to work than the Abaddon while not performing at the same level.
All sounds very negative but that's not the issue, EVE generally doesn't have a "natural progression" where bigger automatically means better. Everything has a role, a place and a counter so "biggest I could find" generally tends to be the wrong way to choose a ship :)
If you're looking for an answer to the "what is the best way to get ahead, plan ahead and get into the game while choosing missions as main income and flying Amarr" then the answer would probably be "get Amarr BS to level 4, then swap to int/mem based remap, train up sentry drones and get a sentry Geddon". Partly because you need drones any way and mostly because it also allows you to train up your support skills (which are vital) really fast. It's not the most fun way of approaching it, also because you won't actually use lasers much for a while, but it sure is the most effective and efficient.
Up to you to decide what you find more important; efficiency or personal preference. Both are valid choices as long as you consciously MADE that choice. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
821
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Posted - 2014.01.13 17:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ishtar, and simply blitz the missions, or speed tank those you can't. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1993
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:The Tengu is not as good at ppl brag about. First of all it's forced into kinetic damage type which is only ideal against Guristas (when only looking at the main npc factions). Against Serpentis and Angels it's mediocre and against Sansha it's outright horrible.
Nitpick: the vast majority of Serpentis ships are weakest against kinetic damage. Unless you're specifically talking about the Phi Overseer, kinetic is the preferred damage type, not thermal. So Tengus are fine there. |
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CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Like someone said before there are not stone writen rules on EVE about what you should fly and how...
Usually battleships are used for missions, and the times they are used in pvp are in gangs almost never solo.
For PVE the sentry battleships are awesome and good for low sp chars Dominix or Armageddon and the drone skills will help you with almost all ships you'll fly. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
470
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm going to make an assumption and assume you are fairly new to Eve still. I think this because you (OP) asked about your first BS and immediately went for the bling faction boat.
Please keep in mind that ability to sit in a ship does not confer the ability to use it well. I strongly suggest you try out a T1 BS first. Someone with low skills that sits into a BS too early is more likely to get ganked, and definitely more likely to lose it to rats, which would be very embarrasing.
Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
572
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
As others have said ....first what do you want it for? BS's are good for level 4 missions and not much else (protip missions are one of the dullest bits of eve). If you select a lazor boat you will have issues with many rat types due to non selectable damage. Angel extravaganza will be a nightmare when you want explosive damage. On the plus side large lazor skills are needed for the nightmare which is much loved in incursions. The tengu imo is not a great mission ship as it has too short a range for many missions. The tengu is amazing for low and null plexing esp in gurista space mainly due to the ability to travel cloaky nullified and then refit in system to combat subsystems. the raven is a very popular lvl 4 starter ship because hostiles will always be in range and you can always shoot their weakest resist. The ishtar is OP for missions, plexing and PVP and no one ever regretted training for it. anyway try what you want and don't worry if you trained a bunch of stuff you might not need for now. the worst bits of eve are when you realise you wasted training for something that you realise you don't need but the bit people forget is that what they do in Eve changes over time and we all end up cross training anyway. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
So, train Caldari and ignore amarr? |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
572
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
gallente is awesome for pve and pvp. caldari are great for pve and have some decent pvp ships. minmatar are great for pvp and some pve. amarr have some great pvp ships and have some ok pve ships which are limited to rat types. you will either get into some form of pvp (market , ganking or traditional) or quit eve anyway here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
328
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amarr are fine. They have a plethora of great PVP hulls across every size class and they are good at PVE as well. The Armageddon is a solid PVE boat when you are shooting rats that aren't weak to EM/Thermal. And people tend to forget about the Khanid ship line when blitzing lower level missions. Their dread is acceptable and of course there is the almighty Archon. |
Anna Lytical
Laboratoires Armageddon 1121 Ventures
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 21:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scios Severace wrote:I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it?
It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy.
Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster. |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 21:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anna Lytical wrote:Scios Severace wrote:I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy. Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster.
Thanks for that, I am trying to bling out with the NaPoc but I won't touch it till I t2 gun and tank it. I would appreciate some fitting help though, and why do you say the tengu isn't all that anymore? |
Satori Sartori
X-Type Prospectors
2
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Posted - 2014.01.13 23:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Armageddon Navy Issue can pull out 1000+ DPS, but it's very hard to get cap stable, and it takes some sentry skills (at least use Imperial Navy Curators if you can't use t2 sentries). I use it myself, it's a pretty good ship, but it takes some micro-management (sentries, swapping ammo if you can't use scorch, cap management). |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Ragnarok.
112
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Posted - 2014.01.14 11:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
your first choice should be if you want to train missiles or not. the problem is missile support skills work only for missiles while gun support skills work for lasers projectiles and hybrids. missiles are a great pve platform but has limited uses in pvp and even some pve content (incursions).
your second choice is how are you going to make your isk you need, be it for pvp ships or plexing your account. granted as a new player you dont know what is out there so the advice to grab a t2 large gun and a battleship 4 skill and then focus on support and drone skills is great. you can then explore eve while training skills you will always use and not waste any time on skills you might not need in your chosen isk/fun making activity.
that said napoc missioning in amarr space is perfectly fine and you will be flying one of the sexiest ships known to mankind. you can then always train into a paladin for pure lv4 ownage or nightmare for incurtions. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
243
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scios Severace wrote:Anna Lytical wrote:Scios Severace wrote:I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy. Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster. Thanks for that, I am trying to bling out with the NaPoc but I won't touch it till I t2 gun and tank it. I would appreciate some fitting help though, and why do you say the tengu isn't all that anymore? high meta guns are perfectly fine with faction crystals , t2 tank is a must.
iv been sitting in an npoc for the last 4-6 months, lovely ship, much lovlier with adv wepon upgrade-5 though.
get used to the t1 hull for a couple of weeks, you will lose a couple of them, but you can afford to lose 3-4 of them for the price of an npoc. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1067
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 14:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scios Severace wrote:As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships?
How young are you? Usually peopel make the mistake of goign TOO EARLY for battleships. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Bastion Arzi
Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae
90
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.
If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.
Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.
Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).
[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules. |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
219
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Posted - 2014.01.14 17:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.
If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.
Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.
Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).
[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules.
I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit? Don't Panic.
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Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2014.01.14 17:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.
I suggest you go for any other race.
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Sid Crash
80
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.
If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.
Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.
Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).
[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules. I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit?
You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.
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Bastion Arzi
Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae
90
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
range is 53km optimal and 62.6km falloff (scorch)
Sid Crash wrote:You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.
can u please explain why this is a bad fit?
Ive used it in several level 4 missions and its turned out just fine. |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
I would really appreciate a decent t2 navy apoc fit |
Scios Severace
Solarian Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Or would the navy geddon be better? |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1237
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 19:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scios Severace wrote:Or would the navy geddon be better? Napoc would be better. Navy Geddon needs both good drone skills and good laser skills. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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