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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:04:00 -
[841] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lady Naween wrote: maybe it is because I am blonde and a woman but where will the fight be?
As I outlined in my post there wont be any new fights. There MIGHT be one short structure bash, and that is it. And for what reward? None that I can see, nor can those with more math then I.
so.. can you please explain where the conflicts will be? Help us please understand your vision because I think a lot of us are missing it.
please?
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
Have you ever played Eve and lived in nullsec? |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
799
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:04:00 -
[842] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lady Naween wrote: maybe it is because I am blonde and a woman but where will the fight be?
As I outlined in my post there wont be any new fights. There MIGHT be one short structure bash, and that is it. And for what reward? None that I can see, nor can those with more math then I.
so.. can you please explain where the conflicts will be? Help us please understand your vision because I think a lot of us are missing it.
please?
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
Can't we leave the bounties at the normal 100% and ignore the confusing and needless 95% aspect of the mechanics and instead have a module which lowers by 20% and builds up to 110-120% so it's purely an optional gamble and not something we feel forced to use because CCP suddenly decided we all deserve a 5% income nerf. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
918
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:05:00 -
[843] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I tend to avoid answering posts using inflammatory phrasing, but I actually think your signature answers your question pretty well. I fail to see what the point is supposed to be behind this deployable. If what you guys want to do is to make nullsec more rife with PVP action, then surely fixing the sov system would be a much better expenditure of your dev time.
But then they wouldn't have time to work on dust, wod, valkyrie and mobile apps... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1418
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:08:00 -
[844] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lady Naween wrote: maybe it is because I am blonde and a woman but where will the fight be?
As I outlined in my post there wont be any new fights. There MIGHT be one short structure bash, and that is it. And for what reward? None that I can see, nor can those with more math then I.
so.. can you please explain where the conflicts will be? Help us please understand your vision because I think a lot of us are missing it.
please?
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
Unlike many of my peers I am not opposed to this module as a general concept. However, I would suggest you go back and try to understand the EFFORT:ISK and RISK:REWARD for this module and rebalance it.
The ratio as it stands is not appealing to ratters. Black Ops groups sure, ratters no.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Omanth Bathana
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:08:00 -
[845] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
Everything you've posted assumes that the bubble around the module represents an actual deterrent to roaming individuals accessing these modules. Anyone who has spent any time in 0.0 space since Rubicon 1.0 knows that with bubble-immune, instant-warping interceptors and nullified T3s, bubbles are not a significant deterrent to hostile mobility in a sovereign system. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:09:00 -
[846] - Quote
Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Turelus wrote: * Why isn't it a seeded BPO/BPC instead of buy it now item?
That is mostly for lore reasons - the empires are coughing up money themselves because they-¦re hoping to draw null sec pilots back into the fold.
Turelus wrote: * Why should we risk 20% of our members income for such a small gain?
This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
270
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:10:00 -
[847] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lady Naween wrote: maybe it is because I am blonde and a woman but where will the fight be?
As I outlined in my post there wont be any new fights. There MIGHT be one short structure bash, and that is it. And for what reward? None that I can see, nor can those with more math then I.
so.. can you please explain where the conflicts will be? Help us please understand your vision because I think a lot of us are missing it.
please?
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be. I think you're over-estimating the eagerness with which people will anchor a structure that will be used as a gun to their head later on.
"Dear Snake Jailbird, for your convenience and mine, the key is under the doormat, the money is in the till please remember to lock up when you leave thank you come again!" |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
918
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:11:00 -
[848] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lady Naween wrote: maybe it is because I am blonde and a woman but where will the fight be?
As I outlined in my post there wont be any new fights. There MIGHT be one short structure bash, and that is it. And for what reward? None that I can see, nor can those with more math then I.
so.. can you please explain where the conflicts will be? Help us please understand your vision because I think a lot of us are missing it.
please?
If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
Man, you are defending the indefensible. Give it up now, admit it's a bad idea, take it back to the drawing board. There's no shame in a rethink. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
249
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:12:00 -
[849] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
ahahahahahahahahahahahaha
have you been to highsec lately ? do you even play this game ?
( let me help you out, if you did something to deal with the botting empires some no name alliances establish just to run RMT bot farms that number might go down by about 70% ) |
Kais Fiddler
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:12:00 -
[850] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Kismeteer wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:I tend to avoid answering posts using inflammatory phrasing, but I actually think your signature answers your question pretty well. Referencing: GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Why are null sec people the only people that have defend it? Why couldn't you do this module in high sec, where it could actually make for interesting game play? Or low sec, which this seems ideal for, if anyone ratted there. If you're avoiding posts with inflammatory phrasing, is that your excuse why you're avoiding most of the posts in this thead? You can-¦t expect everything we do to have equal affect on everyone. Yes, the ESS affects null sec more, just like the Hi Sec POCOs we did for Rubicon affected hi sec more. It evens out in the end. We hate everyone equally. That's ok, I hate everyone too. The module as-is doesn't do what you think it does. It doesn't create conflict because no one will even bother with the minimal reward it potentially offers. This is due to the large reduction in current income, with a high risk of getting no reward and a small reward if the gambit succeeds.
Are you familiar with the concept of a risk/benefit analysis? |
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EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1658
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:12:00 -
[851] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Why don't you minimize inflation some other way? |
Kais Fiddler
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
32
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:14:00 -
[852] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote: * Why isn't it a seeded BPO/BPC instead of buy it now item?
That is mostly for lore reasons - the empires are coughing up money themselves because they-¦re hoping to draw null sec pilots back into the fold. This is going to succeed. Well done, empires, you're going to achieve your goals. |
Fix Sov
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:14:00 -
[853] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Alternatively, you could do things like increase sales taxes etc to respond to the inflation, and have an even bigger pot of gold to skim off of. vOv The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change. |
Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:14:00 -
[854] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
It's not a nerf if we chose to be, it is a definite nerf because of the way CCP has designed Nullsec ratting.
Here are the facts.
Income is completely dependent on DPS of a ratting ship. If a fit does less than 600 DPS, you will receive less Isk/hour than L4 missions (Faction Navy est 60 Mil/hour. SOE missions can hit 150+) . Ratting ships generally fit as much pure damage as possible over damage application and projection, never mind mobility and tackle.
Ratting Means tanking a decent amount of incoming damage for prolonged periods of time. This means ratting fits are optimized for endurance, and fare poorly against high burst ratter ganking fits. Not to mention the ratting ship will have rat damage from the start. In practice, this means a ratting ship will always lose to a ratter ganker, unless the ganker is extraordinarily inept.
Due to the way anomalies are designed, ratting is largely a solo/multiboxed activity. Rats have very low HP, and the frequent target switching from having multiple people ratting the same site reduces efficiency. Even if ratting ships could fight the gankers, that would be dependent on ratter gankers being honorable space samurai who always work alone and never have a gang behind them.
From these attributes, the only reasonable action when ratter gankers enter system is to dock.
I'm curious, what do CCP devs envision as " various choices in how to respond". Do you expect certain player behavior when implementing new features? a certain way they be used? they ways they impact EVE at large?
An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department. Were you wronged by a member of our fine space guild? We can get you the compensation you deserve. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
162
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:15:00 -
[855] - Quote
Razzor Death wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. ahahahahahahahahahahahaha have you been to highsec lately ? do you even play this game ? Your definition of income and CCP's definition differ, FYI.
You consider any increase in your wallet to be income. CCP defines income as "activities which increase the total amount of isk in the game." Highsec missions and incursions derive a nontrivial amount of their reward in LP, which is designed to reduce total isk in the game. Nullsec combat anomalies directly create isk. CCP is right to be wary of the total number of "isk faucets" which exist in the game, and while I don't necessarily know if tuning nullsec combat anomaly bounties in such a way is the right decision, it's certainly one effective way of going about it. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
799
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:15:00 -
[856] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Turelus wrote: * Why isn't it a seeded BPO/BPC instead of buy it now item?
That is mostly for lore reasons - the empires are coughing up money themselves because they-¦re hoping to draw null sec pilots back into the fold. Turelus wrote: * Why should we risk 20% of our members income for such a small gain?
This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
With respect many have stated that if inflation was the reason we would rather just have CCP rework the bounties and be open and honest about it. Also it seems a little backwards to be fixing an inflation issue by adding a module which can potentially bring more money into the game. This goes back to my earlier posts that if CCP is looking for a way to sink some ISK out of the game have these modules pay out LP instead of ISK that way we will be dumping the money into LP stores which are one of the games larger ISK sinks.
LP would also work nicely with the lore you're trying to establish here and gives the racial variants of the modules more meaning as you will be choosing which LP you would like to be earning via the choice.
In the current state of the item it's really not worth it to most NullSec entities because it offers far too little gain for far to high a risk. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Omanth Bathana
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:16:00 -
[857] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Can you provide a breakdown of the magnitudes of isk faucets and sinks so the players that are interested can verify this? I'm not opposed to an across-the-board null-sec bounty nerf if this is true, but let's call a spade and spade. We're all adults.
CCP SoniClover wrote: That is mostly for lore reasons - the empires are coughing up money themselves because they-¦re hoping to draw null sec pilots back into the fold.
There are better ways, both in lore and in game mechanics, for empires to draw us back into the fold. Use empire LP, rather than straight isk, as the incentive, it fits far better with the tropes you've established so far (LP for missions and faction warfare).
CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
A very large contingent of the null-sec power bases have demonstrated (relatively) objective that the gain is not worth the risk. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
163
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:16:00 -
[858] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Why don't you minimize inflation some other way? Between you, us, and N3's rental programs, we are generating trillions of isk a month in rent. Renters, in a large amount, generate that isk from ratting. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:17:00 -
[859] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
The ESS as implemented is garbage and you will probably not be getting what you'd get pre-1.1 because word will quickly get out about the morons who actually are dumb enough to use an ESS and you'll get camped and robbed left and right because you're the only ones dumb enough in five regions to do it. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
920
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:18:00 -
[860] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Why don't you minimize inflation some other way?
Yet if you use the ESS properly you get 105% of the bounty. So much for worrying about inflation. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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Nori Galathil
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:20:00 -
[861] - Quote
Do not put this module in game as is currently thought to function. This will not cause conflict like you think. Listen to the null player base it is telling you. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
920
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:20:00 -
[862] - Quote
You know an idea is bad when everyone agrees its bad. CCP have succeeded in uniting both Empire and null sec players into agreeing that the ESS is bad. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:21:00 -
[863] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Your own economist says otherwise.
Quote:The next graph showed the money supply. Overall, the money supply is evening out--changes to systems have reduced the ISK supply, so average ISK in active wallets is stable as of November 2012 and the maximum amount may even be peaking. While Mike points out that the leveling-out at the top of the graph is very short, Dr. EyjoG responded that it was the first plateau visible at all. Sinks and faucets are fairly balanced right now, with a bit more faucet than sink to allow for economic growth.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdf
This explanation doesn't hold water and you've published something to that effect. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1419
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:21:00 -
[864] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. Turelus wrote: * Why isn't it a seeded BPO/BPC instead of buy it now item?
That is mostly for lore reasons - the empires are coughing up money themselves because they-¦re hoping to draw null sec pilots back into the fold. Turelus wrote: * Why should we risk 20% of our members income for such a small gain?
This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
One of CCP's stated goals in the past was to get rid of all possible NPC items. This item should not reverse that trend and should be player made.
If by subjective, you mean lotteries are also subjective because they are played by people really bad at math. Then yes, this is subjective too. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
109
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:22:00 -
[865] - Quote
not sure why this topic is unlocked. CCP won't care or change anything, but just reply to some posts about how you're all wrong. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:23:00 -
[866] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. ... This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
No it's not. You just admitted, in this post you've deliberately balanced it so it's not worth the risk (because you're assuming it will lead to a reduction in isk overall). So no, the risk isn't worth the reward and you know it. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Blackfin Arbosa
New Eden Order Sev3rance
22
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:23:00 -
[867] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:With the coming point release EVE Online: Rubicon 1.1 we will add more deployable structures:
- Two new siphon variants, one to more efficiently stealing refined components and one to steal polymers
- One unit to be deployable in nullsec called Encounter Surveillance System (ESS)
The bounties in Nullsec are lowered by 5%. An active ESS lowers the bounty payout even more down to a total of -20%. Interacting then with the ESS gives you back between 20% and 25% so that you end up with 100% to 105% bounty of the current bounty value. Interacting with the ESS will allow you then to cash in the collected bounties in form of tags which can be sold to the Empires. You can choose to take all the bounties for yourself or share the bounties amongst every contributor. Please read the latest blog by CCP SoniClover which contains all the details about those new structures!
ESS is dumb just don't |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
384
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:24:00 -
[868] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Are you suggesting that EyjoG's assessment ("Sinks and faucets are fairly balanced right now, with a bit more faucet than sink to allow for economic growth") that can be found in the CSM minutes is wrong? No sig. |
Omanth Bathana
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:25:00 -
[869] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Your own economist says otherwise. Quote:The next graph showed the money supply. Overall, the money supply is evening out--changes to systems have reduced the ISK supply, so average ISK in active wallets is stable as of November 2012 and the maximum amount may even be peaking. While Mike points out that the leveling-out at the top of the graph is very short, Dr. EyjoG responded that it was the first plateau visible at all. Sinks and faucets are fairly balanced right now, with a bit more faucet than sink to allow for economic growth. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdfThis explanation doesn't hold water and you've published something to that effect.
Love that quality communication between the CSM, Developers, and CCP's analysts. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
231
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:25:00 -
[870] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Then just straight nerf the bounties.
This is a poorly designed mechanic, period.
It's contrived and exceedingly confusing. It's not the kind of change that is going to add new players to the game in the long term or make existing players enjoy the game more.
Interacting with a nonsensical system wide ratting bank account via a deployable is so ridiculously weird that I just can't even fathom how this made it so far.
It's probably the single worst example of game design I have seen come from CCP in a long time. |
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