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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:05:00 -
[2041] - Quote
with the new devblog i dont understand the function of the ESS now. let me get this right:
-null sec income nerfed by 5% for bounties
-ESS will still increase our bounty payments up to 105%
-ESS will also pay and aditional of up to 0.2 LP per 1000 isk on top of that
is this right? or am i missing something?
by that rule a pirate BS in the range of 1 million bounty would earn you 200k LP.....sweet :D |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1696
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:07:00 -
[2042] - Quote
They still have not explained why we need a blanket 5% nerf to income. I think as players we deserve a detailed explanation from a qualified economist There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:09:00 -
[2043] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:They still have not explained why we need a blanket 5% nerf to income. I think as players we deserve a detailed explanation from a qualified economist
5% of a bounty is nothing when you can gain even moar in LP items, this is not a nerf, its a buff actually.....unless someone points the contrary.... |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:13:00 -
[2044] - Quote
nevermind, my calculations were wrong. 0.2 per 1000 isk isnt a buff. a 1 million rat would earn you 200 LP....bad maths e.e |
Qalix
Long Jump.
49
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:19:00 -
[2045] - Quote
WTF?
LP for rats!? So all that work we did for standings was for nothing. All the compromises the FW people had to make regarding standings is out the window. All the work maintaining the correct faction standings, all the see sawing, all of it was pointless.
I rarely come right and out say it, but this is quite possibly the dumbest change I've ever seen. You're not reining in nullsec ratters, you're buffing them. ESS went from activity disruption to activity bonus.
Why don't you just give every member of every sov holding alliance a couple billion isk and cut out the middleman? Oh wait. That's exactly what you're doing. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
891
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:25:00 -
[2046] - Quote
So the final iteration added some more rewards and made the module more complex but doesn't really solve some issues. I'm almost there with openly accepting the ESS and I think I could even learn to like it, however it has a lot of really odd/bad mechanics tacked on just to make it work.
Issue: 95% reduction in bounties is to slow inflation, however if the is module used it automatically makes bounties 100% possibly 105% and doesn't solve the inflation issues. This whole 5% still feels like an attempt to push people into using the module rather than any serious work to lower ISK income from NullSec.
Issue: Lore behind CONCORD and their cutting bounties is unbelievable, CONCORD can instantly travel anywhere in Empire, obliterate even capital ships but can't just adjust the true value of bounties across EVE, instead opting to just not pay 5% of what they said they would.
Solution Idea: Personally it would feel more beneficial/believable to lower the true values of Deadspace NPC bounties by 5% across EVE. This would have the desired reduction in ISK income, remove a confusing mechanic for people moving to NullSec for the first time, makes belt rats a little more valuable (considering their worthless vs anomalies as it is). This makes the lore more believable and the mechanics easier for everyone to understand.
Issue: Navy Faction stores don't offer industry implants/modules and if the ESS is highly used it may devalue a lot of LP items.
Solution idea: Create a new NPC Corporation for each Empire which is established specifically to build relations with the NullSec Capsuleer Alliances in order to try and keep them loyal, or work to mitigate their loss of control. From these corporations CCP can set specific items and prices, this means if CCP want modules like Navy Hardeners to still be a HighSec only earned item they don't add them to the store. The stores could instread focus on the items to make NullSec players every day lives easier, faction ammo, learning and hardwiring implants for example. Then have the option to install an LP Store/Office in your outposts for a cost per month (ISK SINK!) meaning players no longer need to fly back to Empire to cash this LP in, they earn the LP in their space and get their rewards in their space.
Other ideas:
* Accessing the ESS without standings requires the hacking minigame, however the ESS would have no bubble/super-point. This gives roaming gangs two options, bring a skilled hacker/ship to steal from their targets or just shoot the thing and break it to "burn the fields" for a while. This also takes away some of the risk of instantly losing your money to roaming gangs but adds the annoyance that a roaming gang can come break your ISK printer. Reinforcement timers could be added to stop players repairing the module too soon meaning a burn does damage their income potential for a period of time. There could also be a chance/set % of ISK lost if your ESS is reinfoced this way. Gangs are more likely to fight if they see their ESS is being hit and they will lose that money if they don't stop the assault in time.
Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
432
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:25:00 -
[2047] - Quote
Qalix wrote:...all of it was pointless.
My autobiography is going to be titled
ALL OF IT WAS POINTLESS 7 Years in EVE Online The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal bring back images |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6215
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:27:00 -
[2048] - Quote
Qalix wrote:I rarely come right and out say it, but this is quite possibly the dumbest change I've ever seen. You're not reining in nullsec ratters, you're buffing them. ESS went from activity disruption to activity bonus. Just as it should be. Nullsec ratting has not had the level of reward it should have given the risk for some time. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3451
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:31:00 -
[2049] - Quote
A few points I want to bring up that weren't addressed in the blog:
1.) The ESS needs a means to inhibit it's distribution timer. I tested this last night, and this is what I found: I can land next to the ESS and immediately hit access and choose take all, starting the 3.5 minute timer to grab the loot or I share all, starting the 30 s timer to share the loot. There are only two ways to stop me: a.) destroy my ship. b.) get me to leave the proximity of the ESS (15 km radius). It would be very nice if a mechanic existed where a player could stop this count-down. I can think of several ways to do it:
Option 1: Target the ESS. This would force those on grid to chase off anyone that's preventing the timer from counting down. Option 2: Damage the ESS, were every the damage delivered creates a proportional extension in the delivery times. (example, +60 seconds for every 6000 damage it receives). Option 3: Counter-access the ESS. Allow a pilot that lands next to the ESS to access it and choose "stop" to prevent the ESS from completing its timer. The means you and the other pilot would both be within 15 km's of the ESS.
Note: Ideally the ESS would name the pilot responsible for activating it. And ideally the ESS would name the pilot responsible for hindering the timer from counting down.
2.) As pointed out, if someone can successfully deploy this inside the Sun, where your ship will be ejected out upon landing, this might be considered an exploit. I'll try doing this on Sisi tonight (if I can find a system where I have the sun's center bookmarked). |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4460
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 17:36:00 -
[2050] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:And when are you going to significantly increase the number of anomalies per system which desperately needs to be done? What, so someone who is botting in a system with 2 accounts can now bot with 4?
Hard to bot anomalies in the Forge.... |
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Crakachunky
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
20
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:45:00 -
[2051] - Quote
step 1: create procedurally generated fleet based PVE content that takes notes from actual PVP meta, and don't just guess, interview lots of the celebrity status small gang FC's. things they should have in common with incursions- split ISK payouts, different sites for different fleet sizes, cyno jammed, random locations, 2-3 spawn at a time in the same system, more ISK for bigger sites things they should not have in common- system beacons are a no, constellation clumped, showing up on the map
step 2: implement OPTIONAL ESS, set it to take ALL the ISK for a fleet, with 125% payout after tags are stupid forget tags options are good, take all or dish out (to fleet) cashout timer set to 5mins ship that cashes out is disabled (akin to lighting cyno) for the ESS to be applicable to the fleet it must be on grid, as in, in the site the fleet is currently running
what we have now is ISK making fleet activities for many sizes and shapes (can limit ship types for sites with activation gates) -PVP fit small fleets now roam alliance space chilling out and making ISK together, ESS enhances this BUT... -if used it allows rival PVP gangs to come in and FIGHT for the RIGHT to STEAL your ISK (hence the ESS disabling ship + keeping total ISK until payout), there is the risk for reward -roaming fleets are now varied because to use your space effectively more than one ship type or fleet composition will be needed -sites that you are not interested allow ninja fleets to roam your space and clear it up |
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
268
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:47:00 -
[2052] - Quote
Sad to see this thing still being pushed out the door, with all its inconsistencies and tacked on mechanics to force "making it work", instead of being a nice and simple solution to a problem.
KISS-principle clearly not at work here.
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Darth Kilth
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
164
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:50:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Qalix wrote:...all of it was pointless. My autobiography is going to be titled ALL OF IT WAS POINTLESS 7 Years in EVE Online I'd buy it. |
Combat Wombatz
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
21
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:58:00 -
[2054] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep.
ESS is still terrible and implementing it in its current iteration would be CCP's biggest mistake since Incarna, news at 11. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
495
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:03:00 -
[2055] - Quote
The ESS is now a bit less ********. Interesting choice to add another commodity-based revenue stream to null and reduce the hisec income at the same time. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Veng3ance
Origin. Black Legion.
21
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:06:00 -
[2056] - Quote
Thank you for the changes to the ESS. Looks a lot better now. |
Shutup Meg
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:09:00 -
[2057] - Quote
The ESS, even with the changes, is indeed terrible. Ratting is a painful process in Eve along with any PVE, and I do not understand why you would make it more tedious and uninteresting. Why after such successful mobile structures such as tractor unit or cyno inhibitor would you decide on a structure that punishes you for doing PVE in nullsec where players drive some of the most valuable content as it relates to publicity of Eve?
I hope you consider dropping the ESS prior to Tuesday. |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
175
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:23:00 -
[2058] - Quote
Anyone know how much less reward missions/complexes are in lowsec space vs. nullsec? |
Qalix
Long Jump.
49
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:27:00 -
[2059] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Qalix wrote:I rarely come right and out say it, but this is quite possibly the dumbest change I've ever seen. You're not reining in nullsec ratters, you're buffing them. ESS went from activity disruption to activity bonus. Just as it should be. Nullsec ratting has not had the level of reward it should have given the risk for some time. Then up the bounty buff. Bringing LP into the equation is just ******* stupid. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:35:00 -
[2060] - Quote
omg, CCP gives exactly what so many suggested (LP not get rid of ESS), and still crying how it sucks.
I don't usually come right out and burn people on forums. But seriously HTFU or go back to WoW.
And on your way out, remember to give me all your stuff. TEST-free needs mo' monies for siphons.
Review:
- LP bonus ia2 isk. More effort, more reward. gj
- More EHP = good.
- Bigger volume also good.
- Bit lower cost... ok. I can see that.
- 10x increase to minimum range from gates etc... yup. You really want it off grid from those things.
- Activation time increased by 2x. Don't see why. But doesn't seem to hurt anything.
- Removed open window timer. Good. That timer was redundant as all hell.
- Different longer timers (30/210s) on share and take all respectively that reset if you leave the ESS. Excellent. Can no longer warp in an inty, click take all, burn/warp off, then come back. You have to sit and fight for it.
- Infini-point seems redundant with the timers. Just get rid of inty bubble immunity.
Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
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stoicfaux
3889
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:49:00 -
[2061] - Quote
Soldarius wrote: Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.
edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.
And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3451
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:57:00 -
[2062] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Soldarius wrote: Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec. edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million. And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.
OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????
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stoicfaux
3889
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:12:00 -
[2063] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Soldarius wrote: Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec. edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million. And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS. OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope???? OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours.
Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
476
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:18:00 -
[2064] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Soldarius wrote: Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec. edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million. And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS. OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope???? OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours. Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.
For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.
God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3451
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:22:00 -
[2065] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Soldarius wrote: Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.
In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.
Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec. edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million. And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS. OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope???? OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours. Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.
Perhaps, but that dark alley runs along your house's back yard, whereas the Mall is 30 minutes away. Not to mention you and your gangbanging buddies can walk to the back alley atm fully armed and legally able to shoot anyone and everyone.
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Combat Wombatz
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
21
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:24:00 -
[2066] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:stoicfaux wrote: Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.
For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl. God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.
And if they choose not to use them at all, they get slapped with a nerf painted by a mile-wide brush. |
handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
195
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:24:00 -
[2067] - Quote
I like these changes. even with the 80% payout, the LP should make up for it even if the ISK gets stolen.
I like them a lot actually Baddest poster ever |
stoicfaux
3889
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:35:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote: For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.
God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.
Okay, here's some thinking: * the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting, * the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen, * you have to transport the tags to redeem them, * you have to transport yourself to redeem LP, * transport is probably longer and riskier, * you need to sell your LP items, * LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons, * if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard,
End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit.
edit: And another thing, if Navy faction items (guns, ammo, ships) become super cheap and thus popular, then the *player* based economy/industrial base takes a hit from NPC "industry" which is probably bad for the sandbox. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
16
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:51:00 -
[2069] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote: For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.
God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.
Okay, here's some thinking: * the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting, * the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen, * you have to transport the tags to redeem them, * you have to transport yourself to redeem LP, * transport is probably longer and riskier, * you need to sell your LP items, * LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons, * if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard, End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit.
The ESS only pays out in tags if you choose the take all, ie steal option, otherwise with the share its all liquid isk as before so tag and associated problems is not really a ratters problem it is a problem for the thief/griefer. Far as LP goes, yup it will prolly tank a bit |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
476
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:53:00 -
[2070] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote: For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.
God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.
Okay, here's some thinking: * the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting, * the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen, * you have to transport the tags to redeem them, * you have to transport yourself to redeem LP, * transport is probably longer and riskier, * you need to sell your LP items, * LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons, * if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard, End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit. edit: And another thing, if Navy faction items (guns, ammo, ships) become super cheap and thus popular, then the *player* based economy/industrial base takes a hit from NPC "industry" which is probably bad for the sandbox.
See, was that so hard? Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome |
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