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Diska Eamod
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
19
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Posted - 2014.01.15 15:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:The exact story and ships chosen are the kind of design thing that CCP, employing professional designers and having more data, would likely be more able to do.
I'm interested still in ways this could fail-- one that came up was the problem where there's a big time to train into the ship you're test-driving. That's a good point-- a lot of times this kind of start ends up taking you to endgame power, which is similar in concept, but those games don't have multiple real months to get to where you're going.
Since it's a scripted fight, civilian modules could be used to simulate different activities; modules that are effectively useless but work for the intro. The pilot's ship could also be civilian-esque. CCP could easily create a battle cruiser with no pre-reqs but has about 1000 ehp. This could also open up the option of letting a new pilot choose a role for the fight like logistics or tackler.
Another point of failure would be the real corporations and how to connect to them. New players won't have a clue on how to get connected with the Coalitions and Null Sec alliances. If the tutorial linked to RvB or EvE Uni, that might help some.
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Emmerik
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1 |
Kubetz
0
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
I like this concept a lot.
I am not sure how is it feasible from technical standpoint. I, but it would be great if something like that was implemented. This scenarios can be also used to teach players about tackling, ewar, logi and all kind of stuff. |
SpaceSaft
Schroedingers Fluffy Kitty Asylum
33
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
There is no reason why this fleet that the new player flies in should just go somewhere and die. It could give him/her the tour first, a la oh look a hauler of another faction, let's shoot it, oh noes one of our miners is being attacked by someone or there is this guy in that anomly we have to scan first and each time the fleet almost get that guy and he jumps, you follow and you land in a trap. And each time the new player loses some sp and isk and the ship he or she is flying, forcing the new player to take smaller ships with different tasks.
(The last time could be that you fly a tackle so that time he doesn't get away but his friends come and you're no longer flying something that does DPS.)
But this is really nothing you guys couldn't come up with by yourself, right? Besides that I also hold the opinion that CCP should make a PC version for Dust 514. |
Zan Callira
Broz With Froz
33
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Posted - 2014.01.15 18:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well, has anyone looked at World of Warcraft lately?
The first races (representing the vanilla & 2nd expansions) were played normally. We can attribute this to EVE's first decade, such as showing off player models, factions, and warfare.
The third expansion to World of Warcraft (and every expansion after) hooked players with characters that went on a "mini-quest of epic proportions", basically their first ten levels were a giant epic moving storyline before they entered the "full world" of the game. Using a "phasing" technology, they [Blizzard] allowed players on different parts of the mission's line not to interact with each other. (but you could still chat IF someone out there was willing to talk.) I mean, you're doing a quest of unbelievable size, the visuals can stay with you long after you're done. We can view this as where CCP would like to go with EVE in the second decade. Sure, the capsuleers ARE taking over, but if things in EVE are represented by an overhanging cliff on the skills chart, we (not just the nullseccers) are going to need help from new players with a desire to strive for bigger and better but also has actually flown large fleet encounters.
Why not have both? (remember that one eve sandbox video?) Start like that.
Quote:Here's you. A single frigate in space. You have guns. You warp to an asteroid field and find a miner in distress. what do you do?
1 - Helping the miner fight off rats brings up a new avenue. A small gang warps in and convos you to join them on patrol. 2 - Killing the miner brings up a smaller avenue. A Pirate gang approaches and invites you to go explore a wormhole with them. 3 - Warping away brings up a different avenue. An exploration ship contacts you as it warps into your next location. There's money to be made on exploration sites.
1 - On patrol, your gang defends space. Shoot some rats here, a (npc) frigate cruiser there, new tutorial on gun/ship types and resistances. Your gang meets up with other patrols and suddenly something happens that escalates quickly. (Asakai?) 2 - While in the wormhole, your choices affect what the pirates do, killing others and setting up mobile extraction units. A fight in the wormhole escalates out of control and you start seeing t3 cruisers entering the brawl. Player is told to escape through the wormhole marked on the HUD. Unfortunately, the WH exit leads to the fight in Player 1's route. 3 - Your exploration is well attempted as you learn some ins and outs of probes. A tutorial of using and setting up probes (not launched by you) is used to show how to probe out things. Player N is able to play around with the probing until they have found: a relic site, a sanctum/haven, and an asteroid field. Local spikes and the Player is told to use the probes to scan out the ships. A tooltip can be used to show the difference between probe types. Upon scanning down these new ships, player is asked to warp.
1 - War is hell. The fight is escalating quickly but the player is shown tooltips on shooting the primarys called by others. Ships are cynoing in slowly, from frigates to cruisers and up (base hulls only, don't want veterans getting any ideas) Player is told to help take down the cynoing ship. Taking it down is fun, but another cyno starts bringing in capital ships. Player can either join in or fly around these GIANT monsters until something (laser, gun missle, smartbomb) takes them down. 2 - Same as above, only as a pirate gang, the player is told to stay calm and shoot everyone. 3- Same as Player 1, only as a noncombattant player can fly around the battle but a random ship targets and blows them away.
Wake up with a (fake) killmail telling the player what happened and explains the outcome of the fight. Tutorial about difference between caps and subcaps can be used but tooltips can suffice. CONGRATS! You can now EVE. Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1032
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
When I started my first character in EVE (I think was 2006) the tutorial was something like: "hello capsuleer, this is a rookie ship, this is a mining laser. Undock and GTFO". End of tutorial. The GUI was terrible and everything was not intuintive, the game was harder and less forgiving.
Even so, with such a bad new player experience the game was steady growing, attracting new players and retaining them. Growing game -> growing playerbase.
Improved tutorials, more scripted events aimed to new players, are all good things and always welcome. But thinking that current demographic stagnation is a mere matter of improving tutorials is naive.
People approaching MMORPG search for the feeling to be part of a breathing, alive, universe (a sci-fi simulator in our case), now (since several years) probably CCP is unable to transmit this feeling or to translate it in a proper game framework.
If we want a growing playerbase then the game itself have to grow, fix strategic areas left unattended and extend his borders. Limiting the work on EVE to weaking and recycllyng lead to stagnation and to recycle always the same pool of players. Until it lasts.
It's an option too.
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Malphas Inanis
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
7
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
I like this idea alot and I agree with those that said to let the person try different things
Maybe start out in a frig and kill some small rats, get picked up by a gang and go roaming, then someone batphones your group so you reship to a BS/BC and are jumped into a huge fight! This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous GÇô indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose.
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Zan Callira
Broz With Froz
38
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Posted - 2014.01.15 21:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ok, to clear things up I might have to post this idea:
The title makes EVE a verb. Why would a new player EVE?
It's an open ended question/statement. I'm letting new players fill that in. Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
789
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Posted - 2014.01.15 22:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why think singular?
IF the battleship tutorial did well you could have an option of other ones in the same battle.
Here is a tackler
Here is a logi
etc.
They would not pay off in grind type benefits but could offer an array of possibilities. The reason I think it would be better than a video is the interactivity. People learn better by doing than by listening and or watching.
Keep each 'experience' short so that the person may do another or move on.
If you wanted to really make it special, tie it to famous or infamous battles of Eve Lore or player Lore
Asakai, luminaire, the early incursions live events
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16467
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Posted - 2014.01.15 23:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Why think singular?
IF the battleship tutorial did well you could have an option of other ones in the same battle.
Here is a tackler
Here is a logi
etc.
They would not pay off in grind type benefits but could offer an array of possibilities. The reason I think it would be better than a video is the interactivity. People learn better by doing than by listening and or watching.
Keep each 'experience' short so that the person may do another or move on.
If you wanted to really make it special, tie it to famous or infamous battles of Eve Lore or player Lore
Asakai, luminaire, the early incursions live events
m I do like this.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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Samuel Caldara
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
12
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Part of the lore of Eve is that we have all graduated from a University to become capsuleers. Maybe it can be our final exam. |
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Samuel Caldara wrote:Part of the lore of Eve is that we have all graduated from a University to become capsuleers. Maybe it can be our final exam.
It would be eves' Kobayashi Maru. |
Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2014.01.16 03:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yes, more good ideas from other games plz. EVE shouldn't exist in a bubble. |
Leafar Nightfall
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
113
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
That sounds great, +1 from me
What I would probably like to see when going through this:
-Start undocking a battleship and heading to battle -Short battle start, get players through logi shield repping, local armor repping and structural damage. That way people get clear views on the different types of "life bars", tanks, and how only shield regenerates by itself slowly -Have the player escape the battlefield -Boom: player is trapped in a bubble or tackled. Followed by a small gang of frigates and subjected to different types of EW. -Fight goes on for a little bit more, introducing drones, tracking and so on -Drones get killed, player is defeated and podded by frigates. Suddenly realizes "Bigger is not better" concept -SP loss, clones and so on
I also think that a battleship may be too much of a long term goal and get players frustrated and biased towards that size of ship, but mayber getting them killed by the smaller ships in the game may have the opposite effect and make them realize what they can achieve with cooperation and more accessible equipment |
Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
395
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Le Petite More wrote:Starting them off in a battleship is a terrible idea because then they will want to race for one and will lose it because they lack the skills.
We want to start off big because you get to showcase big ship combat, and when it does (as it should) you can showcase smaller ship combat.
Will it give people an expectation that battleships are what you should do? Probably, but most people have that expectation that bigger is better. This introduction does not have to teach a person about economics in Eve, just what a battle could look like.
So start them in a battleship, then tweak it down as the fight goes on.
As this is mostly a simulation, there is no real need to say "yes these are good but you should not touch them for a year, so were going to give you this ship and this is what you do", and have to ram it down their throat. As this suggestion is a method to hook players... lets hook the player.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Siro Darin
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2014.01.17 03:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Who cares about the new players, this should be how all missions are built. |
Zan Callira
Broz With Froz
41
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Posted - 2014.01.17 03:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Not precisely. Not all missions should have a big battle culminating on what skills you know, although (Light Bulb) a battle to show off your skills before you gradumate to the next level of missions would be an idea for the novice players to start looking into grouped missions, or how to correctly fit your ship.... Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius |
Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
36
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Posted - 2014.01.17 12:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Make it an optional introduction to Eve online, because I don't see myself or anyone else wanting to play it more than once. You'd probably want it in a 'dead-space' system or something, so you don't stumble upon real nullbears and get hotdropped by half a dozen supers. |
Omega Tron
34
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
I would like to endorse this suggestion. I still remember the first few minutes in EVE when I undocked and tried to shoot the gate guards. CONCORD Kill record +1 (stupid noob) EVE Online is CCP's sand box. -áThe sand is owned by CCP. -áWe just get to pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other. -áGet over your thoughts that you have some influence on what they will add or do for you. |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
110
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Posted - 2014.01.19 21:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
I like the idea of getting into action quickly, but not giving skills only to take them away through forced podding.
A lot of people like to feel like they're moving forward with things. Starting things off by making them 'go backwards' would discourage a lot of people. www.gamerchick.net Follow me on Twitter! @gamerchick42 |
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Phoenix Jones
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
396
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Posted - 2014.01.21 16:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Susan Black wrote:I like the idea of getting into action quickly, but not giving skills only to take them away through forced podding.
A lot of people like to feel like they're moving forward with things. Starting things off by making them 'go backwards' would discourage a lot of people.
Actually you have an excellent method to introduce lore into the game.
Start off the capsuleer as a real person, full skills in their races ships and weapons (essentially make the person "uber" and capable of fielding excellent ships, weapons, etc). So skillwise, they would be an excellent battleship pilot, battlecruiser pilot, etc.
At the end of this tutorial, once they are podded or "Killed" in real life, the person becomes reanimated as a capsuleer, but due to the transition, they lost all their skill, so now they must begin to train up. This also bridges the whole concept of their damn immortality, how capsuleer's never die, how skillpoints can be lost, how pods work, etc.
There have been a few games that start off with the player being literally some supreme god (or in this case, an Excellent Pilot), who gets reduced to a scrub and must climb their way back up to being amazing.
Oddly enough this can be done... easily in Eve.
I like the concept, as it gives you a birthright, a beginning, a reason for being a capsuleer.
Same thing just giving a purpose to the player. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Charles RunningHawk
Dapples and Greys
2
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Posted - 2014.01.23 20:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:[quote=Susan Black]
Start off the capsuleer as a real person, full skills in their races ships and weapons (essentially make the person "uber" and capable of fielding excellent ships, weapons, etc). So skillwise, they would be an excellent battleship pilot, battlecruiser pilot, etc.
At the end of this tutorial, once they are podded or "Killed" in real life, the person becomes reanimated as a capsuleer, but due to the transition, they lost all their skill, so now they must begin to train up. This also bridges the whole concept of their damn immortality, how capsuleer's never die, how skillpoints can be lost, how pods work, etc.
Start the player as a skilled member of their races military or militia, they are involved in a battle that goes horribly wrong, resulting in their pod death and the pod deaths of thousands. As a result of the financial cost of their "failure" the military forcibly retires them, strips them of their military training and sends the person out as a capsuleer. That way an individual gets a chance of tasting the big fight, but there is a valid reason for their sudden loss of skills. |
Thirtythousand
36
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Posted - 2014.02.20 17:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Well, I love the idea, but with. Being scripted, and removing everything after, is there a reason it needs to be the character you just made? Is there no reason it could be a small demo/stand alone teaser where you just fly a lore non capsuleer pilot that suggestively dies at the end or fades to black mid fight with the current expansion slogan.
Remember how homewolrds demo hooked you? If not, go to youtube. I'm not saying it needs to be big, but a small download/demo that is designed entirely around the experience. While staying mostly true to eve and people are more likely to try something they dont have to sign up for 1st.
The biggest hook line is not allowing someone to finish something. Zeigarnik Effect is a theory that says the brain is better at remembering unfinished tasks. Why do you think people keep coming back to MMOs or that model you never finished. Basically by escalating the teaser fight (like a dread/cap fleet hot drop and the overview going mad with reds, then the fade to black. Something that shows you scale but leaving a cliff hangar. And using lore makes it easier on resources.
It's used very well in stories. , e.g. Bad guy got away. "finishing the fight" in Halo 2s ending.
But yes to anything that gets more new people in eve. And trains them to want to stick around. Support the updating of rookie ships! Join the discussion https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4222786#post4222786
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Q Aa
Viscosity Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2014.02.22 00:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
great idea +1 |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
326
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Posted - 2014.03.31 09:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Additional idea I just had:
If you put the player into Battlecruiser or Battleship for that intro - make sure somewhere during the battle there is a smaller ship (Frigate?) involved fullfilling a vital role, like getting tackle or such. So the new player knows, while he is now 'forced' to wait til he can fly the big ship, the small ships are as essential in a good fleet. |
Zan Callira
Broz With Froz
50
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Posted - 2014.06.22 04:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
So, the previous CSM has come and went, Looking for feedback from the new CSM.
With new CSM comes new players.
With New Players, comes times that one cringes at the KM's generated on a daily basis.
With new reasons to cringe at fittings, we need more instructions.
I urge the most recent winners of the CSM elections to review what's been seen and written so far. Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius |
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