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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2115
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 22:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Were there any cosmic anomolies such as high electromagnetic signatures, a nearby supernova, a nearby blackhole or quasar, or other things that could affect drones? Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3151
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 14:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
Efforts to duplicate Dreygun's findings have so far met with little to no success. Whether that points to some adaptation on the drone's part or the presence of an unaccounted-for external factor is not yet clear. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
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Posted - 2014.02.13 14:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Haven't heard anything about this lately. Have the Sleepers adapted to any of this yet?
-Eran
My most recent research has shown no change at this point. I will keep you posted if this changes. I still believe that my hypothesis will be confirmed, and the sleepers will prove adaptation ability, however I am usually forced to destroy all the sleeper vessels when using this tactic to gather research material. This could very well be making it hard for the details to be transmitted out to other sleepers. Who knows what amount of programing is required to initiate a change to all sleeper AI or for the issue to even be processed by any sentient agents still in existence. |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 14:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Were there any cosmic anomolies such as high electromagnetic signatures, a nearby supernova, a nearby blackhole or quasar, or other things that could affect drones?
cosmic anomalies seem to play no role in the AI failure. I will be sure to make a full report on the specifics as soon as the matter is properly declassified. |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
I must redact my prior statement... its incredible, I really didn't it would happen so soon. They did it they adapted to the glitch. I will work on creating a new thread to fully debrief everyone on the specifics. Until then feel free to post any questions here. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3151
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
*sigh* Dreygun, exactly which bit of "It's important to be cautious about your findings until they have been peer-reviewed, let's please keep things internal to the corporation until they've been appropriately vetted for public release." are you having trouble with? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Nicolas Merovech
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 20:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
If the Sleeper's internal processes can be tricked by a simple "technique" then perhaps they are far more rudimentary than we thought. A true AI or Infomorphic intelligence is able to adapt to unknown circumstances and function normally. If this report is accurate, then it suggests Sleepers are more in line with combat utility drones, or a virtual intelligence. A fascinating implication, but inconclusive at best. This technique must be tested thoroughly and it's results meticulously recorded. Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Lieutenant of-áThe Synenose Accord |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
Nicolas Merovech wrote:If the Sleeper's internal processes can be tricked by a simple "technique" then perhaps they are far more rudimentary than we thought. A true AI or Infomorphic intelligence is able to adapt to unknown circumstances and function normally. If this report is accurate, then it suggests Sleepers are more in line with combat utility drones, or a virtual intelligence. A fascinating implication, but inconclusive at best. This technique must be tested thoroughly and it's results meticulously recorded.
I agree the sleeper drones are most certainly non sentient programed drones, the simplicity of their patterned attacks and reinforcement schedules are fair proof of this. This more impressive implication of this finding is that after a period of time they adapted to small scale glitch in their targeting AI. A glitch that if applied by the large scale capsuleer community would have been certainly devastating to them. This suggests planning, forethought, strategy analysis, and large scale adaptability. They don't adapt to our normal tactics for destroying them but they choose to adapt to a tactic that has only been used by a few isolated instances but if applied wide scale would devastate them. I believe this is very strong evidence of a sentient controller who if not actively controlling the drones is at least monitoring them at intermittent intervals. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2127
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
You need to do a controlled experiment for these findings of yours to carry any weight I'm afraid. Visit that sleeper site in the same ship, with the same crew, same modules, same time of day, same flight patterns, everything. Do that over the course of time. Record all data no matter how trivial for analysis.
Then, do the same thing with a different sleeper site as your control group, if you get different results, try to determine what was different about this site than the last one.
I look forward to your findings, however until the scientific method is properly adhered to, I'm afraid I'll have to dismiss your current results as a mere fluke. That said, I do sincerely wish for your research to be successful. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:You need to do a controlled experiment for these findings of yours to carry any weight I'm afraid. Visit that sleeper site in the same ship, with the same crew, same modules, same time of day, same flight patterns, everything. Do that over the course of time. Record all data no matter how trivial for analysis.
Then, do the same thing with a different sleeper site as your control group, if you get different results, try to determine what was different about this site than the last one.
I look forward to your findings, however until the scientific method is properly adhered to, I'm afraid I'll have to dismiss your current results as a mere fluke. That said, I do sincerely wish for your research to be successful.
The experiment was completed multiple times, in multiple systems, by multiple capsuleers. We ran it using a variety of ships, damage types, and ranges. It was no fluke. A full detailed report will be given at such time that it is properly declassified which should be here very shortly. The AI glitch has now been corrected which is the primary source of interest to me, as it suggests further intelligence than previous attributed to the drones. |
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
407
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
The reason I asked is that there was a report of increased sensor abilities from the Sleeper drones, as well as reports that they were utilizing a few different tactics, such as different warp-in locations.
I personally tried to duplicate the intitial findings with no success. However, I did my testing in hi-sec with rogue drones after it was reported to have similar effect on them. I tried variations of cloaking, drone deployment, and ranges. At one point I was over 400km away with drones still targeting and chasing me. The only thing I didn't try was warping in at ranges greater than 150km.
With that said, it's already been reported that the Sleepers have adapted and so gathering further information is impossible at this point.
Sure, this could have been done with a more scientific approach from the beginning but, regardless, the information still has some merits. It's unfortunate the Sleepers adapted before more information was gathered. However, it's possible the rogue drones did not, and if they did adapt it could hint at some sort of bond between AIs.
-Eran |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 23:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:The reason I asked is that there was a report of increased sensor abilities from the Sleeper drones, as well as reports that they were utilizing a few different tactics, such as different warp-in locations.
I personally tried to duplicate the intitial findings with no success. However, I did my testing in hi-sec with rogue drones after it was reported to have similar effect on them. I tried variations of cloaking, drone deployment, and ranges. At one point I was over 400km away with drones still targeting and chasing me. The only thing I didn't try was warping in at ranges greater than 150km.
With that said, it's already been reported that the Sleepers have adapted and so gathering further information is impossible at this point.
Sure, this could have been done with a more scientific approach from the beginning but, regardless, the information still has some merits. It's unfortunate the Sleepers adapted before more information was gathered. However, it's possible the rogue drones did not, and if they did adapt it could hint at some sort of bond between AIs.
-Eran
The classified nature of the issue prevented me from being able to spread the specific of this AI targeting failure to full scientific community. However, I plan to give a full debriefing soon that will explain in detail the nature of the glitch. You are correct CONCORDs recent press release is in reference to the sleepers adapting to the glitch I discovered, I hope that provides further support that I didn't just make all this up or that is was some sort of fluke. I can only give you the utmost assurances that the detail to be released were thoroughly vetted within our private research teams. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
408
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 23:45:00 -
[73] - Quote
Thoroughly vetted within your private research teams...Except by Stitcher who chose to chide you publicly. Shame on him.
And yes, I understood why you limited the information and, despite that, believed you were truthful.
Looking forward to the public release.
-Eran |
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Thoroughly vetted within your private research teams...Except by Stitcher who chose to chide you publicly. Shame on him.
And yes, I understood why you limited the information and, despite that, believed you were truthful.
Looking forward to the public release.
-Eran
Stitcher I believe is upset that I released data publicly without vetting the release itself with the corp. We prefer to filter all releases through the corporation the be sure it fits with what we want presented. I got excited and spilled the information with only a cursory release from out CEO. I probably should have waited which is why I am refraining from publishing the full report till I get the corporations full approval. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Dreygun wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Thoroughly vetted within your private research teams...Except by Stitcher who chose to chide you publicly. Shame on him.
And yes, I understood why you limited the information and, despite that, believed you were truthful.
Looking forward to the public release.
-Eran Stitcher I believe is upset that I released data publicly without vetting the release itself with the corp. We prefer to filter all releases through the corporation the be sure it fits with what we want presented. I got excited and spilled the information with only a cursory release from out CEO. I probably should have waited which is why I am refraining from publishing the full report till I get the corporations full approval.
I understand...it was only teasing.
-Eran |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
469
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 11:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
The sleepers fell asleep.
They had a nightmare in which they were unable to move despite being pursued.
Then they woke up. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3155
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 12:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dreygun wrote:The experiment was completed multiple times, in multiple systems, by multiple capsuleers. We ran it using a variety of ships, damage types, and ranges. It was no fluke. A full detailed report will be given at such time that it is properly declassified which should be here very shortly. The AI glitch has now been corrected which is the primary source of interest to me, as it suggests further intelligence than previous attributed to the drones.
And as i've been trying to tell you we haven't passed any threshold of statistical rigor that would stand up in a credible scientific journal.
I admire your enthusiasm, kirjuun, but you're far to eager to declare that you know what's going on before accounting for all the variables. Peer review and caution are hallmarks of the scientific method and I'm telling you that we have not - yet - conclusively proven why Ghosting seemed to work and now doesn't.
I agree that it's a reasonable and even likely hypothesis, but I wish you'd stop declaring as fact what we haven't yet investigated to a sufficient standard. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Nicolas Merovech
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 18:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dreygun wrote:Nicolas Merovech wrote:If the Sleeper's internal processes can be tricked by a simple "technique" then perhaps they are far more rudimentary than we thought. A true AI or Infomorphic intelligence is able to adapt to unknown circumstances and function normally. If this report is accurate, then it suggests Sleepers are more in line with combat utility drones, or a virtual intelligence. A fascinating implication, but inconclusive at best. This technique must be tested thoroughly and it's results meticulously recorded. I agree the sleeper drones are most certainly non sentient programed drones, the simplicity of their patterned attacks and reinforcement schedules are fair proof of this. This more impressive implication of this finding is that after a period of time they adapted to small scale glitch in their targeting AI. A glitch that if applied by the large scale capsuleer community would have been certainly devastating to them. This suggests planning, forethought, strategy analysis, and large scale adaptability. They don't adapt to our normal tactics for destroying them but they choose to adapt to a tactic that has only been used by a few isolated instances but if applied wide scale would devastate them. I believe this is very strong evidence of a sentient controller who if not actively controlling the drones is at least monitoring them at intermittent intervals.
I concur with your hypothesis of a "sentient controller." The nature of this entity must be ascertained if we are to understand and learn from the Sleeper civilization. Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Lieutenant of-áThe Synenose Accord |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2127
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 23:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
One of my majors in the Center for Advance studies was Drone AI. Unsurprisingly, we are the best at that field. I suggest you turn in your findings to them for expert analysis. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
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