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Tuk'ata Rucor
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
2
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Posted - 2014.01.15 15:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
(If this topic belongs on a different feed, let me know)
I'll keep it short and simple...
I've been watching a lot of videos on YouTube of suicide ganking fleets and corps, and... I get it. The only thing no one is explaining is how 1.5 billion isk, spread between 20 or so people, is worth it. I've seen some pretty damn expensive frigate fittings, and I'm just not understanding the benefit of suicide ganking. Besides the ego boost that someone mentioned gaining from it. So please, explain this. |
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
16
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Posted - 2014.01.15 15:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think you already answered it with that ego boosting. Not everything in EVE is motivated by financial gain. It's also a game where ganking is something that is expected. Some people love that kind of thing.
Some people just want to watch the world burn. |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2014.01.15 15:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab. Pog mo thoin |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1255
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Posted - 2014.01.15 15:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
1.5bn / 20 = 75m per person. At 1 gank per 15 minutes that's 300m per hour per person. Especially if you're not even tabbed into game during the 15 minutes when your criminal timer runs out. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
109
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Batelle wrote:1.5bn / 20 = 75m per person. At 1 gank per 15 minutes that's 300m per hour per person. Especially if you're not even tabbed into game during the 15 minutes when your criminal timer runs out.
Is the current environment that rich in bling fits worth ganking though? I know there are some running around doing missions but one every 15 minutes? |
Tuk'ata Rucor
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
2
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:Batelle wrote:1.5bn / 20 = 75m per person. At 1 gank per 15 minutes that's 300m per hour per person. Especially if you're not even tabbed into game during the 15 minutes when your criminal timer runs out. Is the current environment that rich in bling fits worth ganking though? I know there are some running around doing missions but one every 15 minutes?
Personally, I have NOT seen or even heard of ANY fleets that say there is a worthy gank every 15 minutes. From what I've heard from not only my own corp, but others also, is that they wait around (usually playing the market or creating contracts) for their scouts to report to them with intel on a worthy target. Which is usually hours and hours in between. I'm sure Some well-established corps have special intel on popular routes and locations for targets, but the majority have to wait hours.
Ego boost= not worth it. 75 million isk= worth it
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Tuk'ata Rucor
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
2
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab.
I'm guessing you've gotten ganked before. I've been down the market route... I crunch numbers and manage products at work for 12 hours a day, I want to blow things up. Not a second job. I understand tho. There are other ways to PVP and NOT gank people. I'm looking into those options as well. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
211
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I used to be pretty active in ganking, but I haven't been doing it as much recently just because the profitability is just very unpredictable. In my experience, there most certainly is not a gank-worthy target every 15 minutes!
TBH, coordinating a ganker, scanner, and scooper is a lot of work, and my hat goes off to all the gankers out there. Most people consider it too much work and risk, and just opt to steal other ganker's loot (which is really easy to do). |
acemastr Ocer
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ganking doesn't have to be 20 people, a single person sitting with an alt can pick off an industrial that's (rather idiotically) running around with 30bil in their cargo, scoop > profit. |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab. I'm guessing you've gotten ganked before. I've been down the market route... I crunch numbers and manage products at work for 12 hours a day, I want to blow things up. Not a second job. I understand tho. There are other ways to PVP and NOT gank people. I'm looking into those options as well.
Of course I have, I once lost about 6 billion to a gank. I have nothing against ganking, it's a part of eve but I do have an issue with full time gankers.
What is the point in playing a game as complex as Eve Online if all you are going to do is be an F1 monkey 24/7. Pog mo thoin |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2095
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab. I'm guessing you've gotten ganked before. I've been down the market route... I crunch numbers and manage products at work for 12 hours a day, I want to blow things up. Not a second job. I understand tho. There are other ways to PVP and NOT gank people. I'm looking into those options as well. Of course I have, I once lost about 6 billion to a gank. I have nothing against ganking, it's a part of eve but I do have an issue with full time gankers. What is the point in playing a game as complex as Eve Online if all you are going to do is be an F1 monkey 24/7.
What ship was that, a freighter I suppose? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
64
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
You can do suicide ganking solo and make vast amounts of ISK. Just peruse some of the killboards such as EVE Kill etc. I watch what others do locally and a lot of ISK is made this way often just using a Catalyst or occasionally a cruiser or Batlecruiser. I will mention no names so as not to draw attention to them but they only do this or seem to.
There are SO many idiots flying unsuitable ships such as T1 industrials and other weak ships like Retrievers filled literally with billions of ISK worth of stuff including PLEX. I read a kill for Retriever the other day that had no tank and a load of valuable cargo including a PLEX. The PLEX didn't drop on that one but a big profit was still made if I recall correctly.
Sadly most humans are unintelligent - and quite a few of them are haulers in New Eden. |
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
16
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:You can do suicide ganking solo and make vast amounts of ISK. Just peruse some of the killboards such as EVE Kill etc. I watch what others do locally and a lot of ISK is made this way often just using a Catalyst or occasionally a cruiser or Batlecruiser. I will mention no names so as not to draw attention to them but they only do this or seem to.
There are SO many idiots flying unsuitable ships such as T1 industrials and other weak ships like Retrievers filled literally with billions of ISK worth of stuff including PLEX. I read a kill for Retriever the other day that had no tank and a load of valuable cargo including a PLEX. The PLEX didn't drop on that one but a big profit was still made if I recall correctly.
Sadly most humans are unintelligent - and quite a few of them are haulers in New Eden.
It's not really unexpected though. At least, if it's a "newbie" they may not realize that EVE is, well, a hive of scum and villainy. It takes personal experience, or reading about it, to realize this is very true.
Of course, if it's the same people having it happen to them, then yeah, they're just stupid. Getting yourself blown up with valuables in the hold once, is just a learning experience.
Doing it again, just means you refuse to learn. |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
379
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Did you know that with a small payment of 10 mil ISK to your local CODE. agent you can avoid all the drama of ganking for an entire year? Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
64
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Did you know that with a small payment of 10 mil ISK to your local CODE. agent you can avoid all the drama of ganking for an entire year?
That will only protect you from CODE agents. There are many more fish in the sea. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
338
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:ego boost This is something I have never, ever understood.
From the perspective of someone who has never been suicide ganked nor has ever participated in the act, I can't understand how can you could possibly derive an ego boost from suicide ganking.
When suicide ganking, you are, quite literally, exhibiting zero skill. None. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You massed, you pressed a button, and you died. Your FC didn't display any good decision making, your logistics didn't perform admirably, you didn't take down someone who came into the fight with the intention of crushing you, you didn't break free from a certain death tackle only to sweep around and point a key ship, you didn't, you didn't, you didn't... and so on ad infinitum.
Ego should go hand-in-hand with some form of actual achievement. I fail to see how being a bottom feeder could possibly make anyone feel better about themselves. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
9220
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab.
Comments like this give me the will to undock more catalysts. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
211
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
acemastr Ocer wrote:running around with 30bil in their cargo
Just because this sort of KM exists, doesn't mean that it's common. Seeing a T1 indy with >1b in cargo is pretty rare. Based on my experience, I'd say you'll see one of these once every 3 days assuming you're scanning down ships for 3 hours a day. My threshold for ganking was >400m. On average, I'd say you'll see about two of these a day (scanning 3 hours a day). Sometimes more, sometimes less.
Again, this is all based on my experience ganking. My ganking toon has 116 kills, 49b damage done, average of 415m/kill. I'm sure we've got plenty of people who will come out of the woodwork now claiming 10b/day in ganking, etc.
One of my favorite things to do in EVE is fly around the Jita and/or Amarr pipe in a Nereus (hint: you can fit hilarious tank on these things) loaded with ~1.5b in goodies collecting KRs. |
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:ego boost This is something I have never, ever understood. From the perspective of someone who has never been suicide ganked nor has ever participated in the act, I can't understand how can you could possibly derive an ego boost from suicide ganking. When suicide ganking, you are, quite literally, exhibiting zero skill. None. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You massed, you pressed a button, and you died. Your FC didn't display any good decision making, your logistics didn't perform admirably, you didn't take down someone who came into the fight with the intention of crushing you, you didn't break free from a certain death tackle only to sweep around and point a key ship, you didn't, you didn't, you didn't... and so on ad infinitum. Ego should go hand-in-hand with some form of actual achievement. I fail to see how being a bottom feeder could possibly make anyone feel better about themselves.
Ganking is a mysterious art.
Or rather, I feel, I don't know why you should feel proud of ganking at all. At least, to me, ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you. How do you feel proud of crushing someone you utterly outclass? There's just no fun or bragging rights in that.
That's just my personal viewpoint on ganking at all. Jumping someone who fights back, and puts up a fight, and you win anyway, is another thing entirely. Jumping defenseless transports? Not the same. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
211
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:ego boost When playing EVE, you are, quite literally, exhibiting zero skill. None. Nothing. Nada. Zip.
FTFY.
As I've mentioned earlier, suicide gankers have to make instant decisions about whether to commit to a target or not. The randomness of the ship scanner makes this an especially dicey proposition. Every time a nado pilot commits to an indy, they're making an 80-90m ISK gamble (including sec status repair). You also need to coordinate 3 accounts, which takes a little practice. I have respect for the people who do this.
The asshats who sit and steal ganker loot are the real bottom-feeding trolls. (Or masterminds, depending on how you look at it.) You may want to give it a try yourself, you may find there's more involved there than you realize. |
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Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
338
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Etria Issen wrote:ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you It's basically schoolyard bully ****.
I have never known anyone who wasn't in high school who wanted to gank or grief people. It's the sort of thing that appeals to adolescent boys who spend the bulk of their time furiously jerking off. And once you get past that stage, you start to feel like a pleb for doing it, so you try rolling with people who actually fleet up and get into fights that are entirely possible to lose if you aren't on your game.
And that's it. It's a trend that repeats itself, in one form or another, in every PvP game. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
211
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Etria Issen wrote:I don't know why you should feel proud of ganking at all. At least, to me, ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you. How do you feel proud of crushing someone you utterly outclass? There's just no fun or bragging rights in that.
Are you KIDDING me? 99% of fights in EVE are this way.
From themittani.com:
Quote:Though there are instances where roaming gangs will clash with each other in honorable space combat, the bulk of nullsec combat is dirty, one-sided, and entirely unfair. Just as it should be.
Although that quote is directed towards nullsec combat, I find it applies to combat in EVE in general. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
338
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Are you KIDDING me? 99% of fights in EVE are this way. Then you've been playing a radically different game than me this whole time.
20-30 vs 20-30 is where the best fights in EVE happen, and I have chased after them the entire time I have played this terrible game. And you do, in fact, have to go looking for it.
Seriously Carmen, you've never 1v1 in all your life?
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Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
380
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Etria Issen wrote:I don't know why you should feel proud of ganking at all. At least, to me, ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you. How do you feel proud of crushing someone you utterly outclass? There's just no fun or bragging rights in that. Are you KIDDING me? 99% of fights in EVE are this way. From themittani.com:Quote:Throughout the vast majority of nullsec, the only real reason to be in space for any length of time is to pve or to hunt those who are engaged in pve content. Though there are instances where roaming gangs will clash with each other in honorable space combat, the bulk of nullsec combat is dirty, one-sided, and entirely unfair. Just as it should be. Although that quote is directed towards nullsec combat, I find it applies to combat in EVE in general.
Because we always listen propaganda sites like lemartini
Relevant Link Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
212
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Are you KIDDING me? 99% of fights in EVE are this way. Then you've been playing a radically different game than me this whole time. 20-30 vs 20-30 is where the best fights in EVE happen, and I have chased after them the entire time I have played this terrible game. And you do, in fact, have to go looking for it. Seriously Carmen, you've never 1v1 in all your life?
1v1 is by far my favorite way to play this game. The other day I went Enyo vs Enyo and won. I was at 1% structure, and it was the best fight I've ever had in this game. I fully agree that the type of fight you describe is ideal, and the gang I roam with has no problem welping a fleet to a superior force. That said, we don't exactly pass on the lone cruiser either.
Logical 101, if this is how you play, then I admire you for it. I strive to play like this as well. However, most EVE players have such a strong aversion to losing their ships that these fights are much rarer than I would like them to be.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1255
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Notorious Fellon wrote:Batelle wrote:1.5bn / 20 = 75m per person. At 1 gank per 15 minutes that's 300m per hour per person. Especially if you're not even tabbed into game during the 15 minutes when your criminal timer runs out. Is the current environment that rich in bling fits worth ganking though? I know there are some running around doing missions but one every 15 minutes?
4 ganks an hours is fairly unrealistic, but on the other hand, 300m an hour per ganker is also pretty high, especially for something you can do wtih 1-2 month old characters that can be multiboxed. If you want to see how fast you can find targets, you might check out this kb here http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=596061&m=1&y=2014
You can also take down individual haulers solo, which gives you much higher profit, or take down orcas/freighters with your catalyst buddies, and there you may be waiting a bit longer, but you can also surely find targets that will drop more than 1.5bn. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Etria Issen wrote:ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you It's basically schoolyard bully ****. I have never known anyone who wasn't in high school who wanted to gank or grief people. It's the sort of thing that appeals to adolescent boys who spend the bulk of their time furiously jerking off. And once you get past that stage, you start to feel like a pleb for doing it, so you try rolling with people who actually fleet up and get into fights that are entirely possible to lose if you aren't on your game. And that's it. It's a trend that repeats itself, in one form or another, in every PvP game.
All I ever hear about is ganking and griefing, but I guess to be honest, that's because those are the sorts of things people talk about. And I admit to just assuming that's how my experience would be if I went into low or null, is I'd just get ganked by someone the second I get there or something.
Though, I will admit, I did gank someone in WoW once, but... well, he was a Blood Elf, with his name being Sephiroth and some numbers, so he... totally deserved it. I was doing the world a favor, okay. |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Tuk'ata Rucor wrote:hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Ganking is for knuckle draggers that cant work the market tab. I'm guessing you've gotten ganked before. I've been down the market route... I crunch numbers and manage products at work for 12 hours a day, I want to blow things up. Not a second job. I understand tho. There are other ways to PVP and NOT gank people. I'm looking into those options as well. Of course I have, I once lost about 6 billion to a gank. I have nothing against ganking, it's a part of eve but I do have an issue with full time gankers. What is the point in playing a game as complex as Eve Online if all you are going to do is be an F1 monkey 24/7. What ship was that, a freighter I suppose?
Pimped out Ares carrying Bpo's and implants. I raged killed the ganker and went back to Insmother. Pog mo thoin |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
338
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Logical 101, if this is how you play, then I admire you for it. I strive to play like this as well. However, most EVE players have such a strong aversion to losing their ships that these fights are much rarer than I would like them to be. It's that whole "aversion to loss" thing you just described.
I like nothing more than to see a billion ISK ship go down in flames after it forces the 6-man gang trying to take it down to reship at least once before they can finally pop it. I love it when two squads break away from one another because neither can crack the other's logi chain. I derive joy from being on fire and knowing I should be dead, but I'm not.
And above all, I revel in the opportunity to die well.
But people make the mistake of thinking that losing something means they failed and deserve ridicule. "I died in that fight, therefore, I must be a noob". It's the worst possible kind of thinking. What do the Bene Gesserit say? "Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration." It is entirely applicable here. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1034
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Etria Issen wrote:ganking implies you engage someone who has absolutely no chance of defeating you It's basically schoolyard bully ****. I have never known anyone who wasn't in high school who wanted to gank or grief people. It's the sort of thing that appeals to adolescent boys who spend the bulk of their time furiously jerking off. And once you get past that stage, you start to feel like a pleb for doing it, so you try rolling with people who actually fleet up and get into fights that are entirely possible to lose if you aren't on your game. And that's it. It's a trend that repeats itself, in one form or another, in every PvP game.
Agony Unleashed killboard:
Blockade Runner: 138 Exhumers: 57 Deep Space Transport: 10 Freighter: 5 Industrial: 444 Industrial Command Ship: 10 Jump Freighter: 4 Mining Barge: 64 Rookie Ship: 1,483 Shuttle: 433
what a bunch of bullies. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
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