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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Minmatar Factional Spy
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:37:00 -
[151] - Quote
I am making the assumption that CCP will also be introducing a range of Drone implants in line with the Gunnery line?
Or not, cause goontears. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
781
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:15:00 -
[152] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.
The rules: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Bob Niac
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani
47
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:35:00 -
[153] - Quote
Fozzie, wouldn't you rather Omnis be falloff / optimal and the Nav computer handle tracking / speed? I <3 Logistics: Pilot of all -áT2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use. |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:19:00 -
[154] - Quote
great nerf the omnis
atleast when u make omnis to be the tracking comp for drones, then introduce a tracking enhancer for drones too |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:59:00 -
[155] - Quote
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT |
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
IIshira wrote:People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT
Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it. |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:57:00 -
[157] - Quote
I am disposable wrote:IIshira wrote:People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.
yeah but the way they change these just suck. Im OK with nerfing omnis but they should then also introduce passive module and best short and long range type for every damage type like i stated abit before |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:16:00 -
[158] - Quote
The real drone nerf story.
Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1. Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard. Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones. Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships. Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair. CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 21:39:00 -
[159] - Quote
I am disposable wrote:IIshira wrote:People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.
That's another argument that drives me crazy. It must be OP because it's popular. Do we keep nerfing the top 20 ships till every ship in Eve sucks?
Should I be scared to fly a ship because CCP will think it's popular and nerf it?
Sentry drone ships are popular due to drone assist mechanics. Not the drones or ships. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
312
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 21:59:00 -
[160] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:The real drone nerf story.
Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1. Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard. Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones. Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships. Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair. CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are.
It's clear you don't have a clue what doctrines both sides employ. I'll give you a hint: everyone uses sentry drones. I am convinced that CCP is trying to reignite interest in the game by irritating as many people as possible. These collective changes are designed to recreate the stunning success of Incarna and end the stagnation in Eve. Well played, CCP. Well played. |
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.01.18 22:10:00 -
[161] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:The real drone nerf story.
Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1. Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard. Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones. Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships. Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair. CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are. It's clear you don't have a clue what doctrines both sides employ. I'll give you a hint: everyone uses sentry drones.
Well, you're in RAZOR Alliance, which is part of CFC, which are the ones crying for drone nerfs. So looks like you don't have a clue.
Why don't you elaborate. Why are you crying. Everyone has the same ships, mods, drones available to them. Yet all we see is goon tears. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
738
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:00:00 -
[162] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Yes, please make Sentries track better, it's not like we are killing Interceptors with Battleships already. This.
What the hell, CCP? Sentry tracking is way too OP. I sometimes wonder if the people over at CCP actually PvP. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
82
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 23:20:00 -
[163] - Quote
I am disposable wrote:IIshira wrote:People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.
when was the last time when sentrys where rebalanced? do you know that? ofc you have no ideea, you know only to jump in with the rest of crybabys and cry "omg sentrys are op!!! ccp save us pls"
sentrys are in this iteration since some(allot) years ago, yet noone cryed about them being op; only after dominix/ ishtar rebalance they started to be used in large numbers. the new bonuses and drone assist mechanic made them very good at killing stuff, but to nerf them cose 2 ships can use them very well is pants on head ******** logic, sry |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
605
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:15:00 -
[164] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Yes, please make Sentries track better, it's not like we are killing Interceptors with Battleships already. This. What the hell, CCP? Sentry tracking is way too OP. I sometimes wonder if the people over at CCP actually PvP.
I'm sure some at CCP play Eve on a regular basis but I bet most are too busy to do so. The good idea fairy whispers something in their ear and we have a new patch! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 06:33:00 -
[165] - Quote
IIshira wrote:I am disposable wrote:IIshira wrote:People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them
You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.
They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.
The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it. That's another argument that drives me crazy. It must be OP because it's popular. Do we keep nerfing the top 20 ships till every ship in Eve sucks? Should I be scared to fly a ship because CCP will think it's popular and nerf it? Sentry drone ships are popular due to drone assist mechanics. Not the drones or ships.
+1
In the end this is a numbers game and even a particular ship/weapon is a few percent more effective in a particualr situation it will become dominant.
If you end up with a situation that everytime something is 5% better at some specific in game scenario you nerf it 20% because it became popular and the people were not willing or able to train for it complained about it being OP you will finish up with a game where: - either what is worth flying cycles every patch, - OR alternatively a game where there are no real choices as everything is acuallly identical to everything else.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 06:35:00 -
[166] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Andy Landen wrote:The passive mid slot omnis are becoming active with scripts, so how about giving us a low slot passive omni without scripts? TCs already have TEs for turrets. Give drone boats some love too with similar modules.
And how about giving us a feature for allowing the use of sentries while maintaining alignment, just like every other combat ship can already do? Sentries that warp to your ship like fighters when you leave grid or sentries that can attach to the ship's hull, if desired, and while attached can travel with the ship in alignment and warp in that way. That would probably be strongly OP. Moving sentries would become incredibly tanky, and having battleship dps with pimped-vargur-tracking won't help that. With that, sentries would just surpass EVERY other weapon system by a huge margin...
Well if the current stated intentions of making sentries identical to turrets in DPS/tracking/effectiveness are implemented then no not at all ... sentries will then be the same as turrets.
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation WHY so DERP'D
361
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:23:00 -
[167] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Edmark I wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Once again, a PvE tactic is ruined by another bad CCP hire, who is obsessed with PvP This is primarily a pvp game Br0beans. The challenge is balancing the two- hence the word: balance. Ah. back to that canard. One of your other zealots, Jenn whatever, has posted that 11% of the player base is in Sov alliances. Hate to to break it to you, but once again we see a far larger group (PVE focused players), getting screwed to deal with a problem that ONLY occurs in large blob-sec fleet fights. You get it wrong again. There are bout 90,000 characters in SOV holding alliances according to CCP the last time they put out the numbers. The 11% are characters IN null sec during the snap shoot, not all of which are sov alliance members (some are even npc corp alts used for scouting, afk cloaking, whatever). A lot of those 90k SOV alliance characters are in high sec for various reasons, Like me for instance being in Lanngisi with 2 of therm running missions. Even many non sov alliance characters are alts of people in sov alliance. This myth about the high majority is easily debunkable for anyone with any moral sense who is interested in the truth. No on would accuse you of that.
And in addition to what you said, we can't forget all other aspects of the game.
We have W-Space people. We have low-seccers. We have highsec wardeccers. We have highsec miners. We have market alts. We have suicide ganking alts. We have non-sentry using mission runners. We have incursion runners.
I would have to estimate all said and done that approximately half of the population directly PvPs (even if not constantly, then preiodically and so it follows they would be concerned at least somewhat with PvP game balance), with the remaining half PvPing indirectly. The thing these people don't realize is that even their missions are PvP because it produces goods and ISK that goes into the market and causes inflation and manipulates prices for the rest of us. They're not blowing up our ships, but they are participating in affecting the overall market (which is very much player driven). |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1209
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 11:24:00 -
[168] - Quote
Remove drone assist from the game. The Tears Must Flow |
FaulEnza N00bist
The Squad Yulai Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.19 12:04:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Remove drone assist from the game.
Not more, not less. |
Arcos Vandymion
The Advent of Faith Standing United.
25
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:52:00 -
[170] - Quote
I'd preferr that someone finally makes Amarr Light/Medium/Heavy more powerful - the worst drones for the place two drone users in the galaxy - oh yeah and some V3 graphics. I don't think drones have been changed so far now have they.
Bets are on Domis will dominate the next AT too with those changes unless someone comes up with some fancy Vargur fits so we can have some more bets involving beards.
Andy Landen wrote:Sentries that warp to your ship like fighters when you leave grid or sentries that can attach to the ship's hull, if desired, and while attached can travel with the ship in alignment and warp in that way. Them's called turrets and no you won't get turrets that profit from your Drone SP. Your missiles aren't profiting from your Gunenry SP either or vice versa. |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
613
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:26:00 -
[171] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
If you end up with a situation that everytime something is 5% better at some specific in game scenario you nerf it 20% because it became popular and the people were not willing or able to train for it complained about it being OP you will finish up with a game where: - either what is worth flying cycles every patch, - OR alternatively a game where there are no real choices as everything is acuallly identical to everything else.
The second one seems to be the direction CCP is heading in. I really do understand that things have to be constantly "tweaked" but this doesn't mean nerf things with a sledgehammer or try to make things identical like they're doing with this. There is no reason just because tracking computers work one way that omnidirectional tracking links have to too.
In the past few years CCP has gone the direction of simplifying things way too much. The thing that got me into Eve was how complex and interesting it looked. I hate to say it but much of the actual gameplay is boring. It's all the complexities that makes Eve interesting to at least me and I'm sure others. CCP go ahead and make the game less interesting and complex and see how this works out... |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:52:00 -
[172] - Quote
FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Remove drone assist from the game. Not more, not less.
So when does the nerf titans crying start?
I see N3/PL brought titans to the fight and you had none.
So start crying about that.
It's not the rest of the players fault on the server that you are scared to bring out ships.
You just feel because you outnumber them 2 to 1 that you should win no matter what.
Let's see more tears. Goon tears, best tears. |
stoicfaux
3846
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:33:00 -
[173] - Quote
Spreadsheet for computing new sentry ranges with Omni II: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvCLlTV8bSxNdERkd3lSMHdmaUljaU5Ha2hVXzR3dlE&usp=sharing
It's set for an Ishtar. Just make a copy and update columns B, C, and D on rows 6, 13, 20, and 27 with your values from EFT, pyfa, etc..
Long story short, with three Omni IIs, my Ishtar's Gardes go from 72km+12k to 58km+23km. The other sentries stay at 100km+ optimal. *sniffle*
/assuming_I_didn't_make_a_mistake_somewhere WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
614
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:46:00 -
[174] - Quote
I was thinking of fitting an Ishtar so this is very helpful! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 00:12:00 -
[175] - Quote
Nice spreadsheet
Ironically the changes make using 4 or more omnis more viable than previously as you can avoid stacking penalties by doing stuff like Garde with 3 range scripted and one tracking scripted omni.
What would make these changes a bit more manageable is the ability to group the omni so you only need one click, not 3 or 4, to change scripts for the full set/rack. |
sabastyian
Death By Design
19
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Posted - 2014.01.20 02:52:00 -
[176] - Quote
Not terribly important since not many people do them ( apparently ) but this change will kill drone ships in lvl 5 missions. Those neuts make anything short of a carriers tank suicide ( unless asb bastion'd marauder ). The lvl 5 neuts can hold a capital at 0 cap, no problem so with their loss of omni links for their sentries, their damage goes down increasing the risk for no increase reward ( to people saying their isnt much, you're in a capital scrammed in a site and you can easily be probed down, there is a risk ) Just a small thought. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2039
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 14:08:00 -
[177] - Quote
sabastyian wrote:Not terribly important since not many people do them ( apparently ) but this change will kill drone ships in lvl 5 missions. Those neuts make anything short of a carriers tank suicide ( unless asb bastion'd marauder ). The lvl 5 neuts can hold a capital at 0 cap, no problem so with their loss of omni links for their sentries, their damage goes down increasing the risk for no increase reward ( to people saying their isnt much, you're in a capital scrammed in a site and you can easily be probed down, there is a risk ) Just a small thought.
This change will kill more than a few drone ships, in more than a few situations. I don't think people realize how much of an impact it will have on optimal range, especially when they start stacking them. (though that spreadsheet is going to open a few eyes).
I am thinking of dumping my Fed Navy Omni's which are looking at a quadruple nerf, based on the deafening silence to my question about whether the Fed Navy Omni's get 18/36 stats, or the Fed Navy TC stats of 16/32, or maybe even just stuck with the T2 stats of 15/30.
Taking a module from 30% optimal to 16% optimal, 32% falloff, with cap issues, plus a loss of simultaneous tracking performance (which btw, now involve a 10 second change timer) is a massive, massive nerf.
Only someone who absolutely hates PvE would dream up such punitive changes. And such a person should never, ever, be placed in a position where they can do so much damage to so many, particularly when they clearly enjoy doing so. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Meyr
SiN Corp Black Core Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 15:13:00 -
[178] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Remove drone assist from the game. Not more, not less. So when does the nerf titans crying start? I see N3/PL brought titans to the fight and you had none. So start crying about that. It's not the rest of the players fault on the server that you are scared to bring out ships. You just feel because you outnumber them 2 to 1 that you should win no matter what. Let's see more tears. Goon tears, best tears.
Go check the Capital Turret Tracking Nerf (tm) thread. Titan and Dreadnaught turret tracking, and, thus, DPS, are getting a 5% hit, unless you're flying something similar to a CFC Naglfar, and overheating. |
Dragonzchilde
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
44
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:00:00 -
[179] - Quote
or how a simple "unnerf" of the AoE DD would solve so many problems
but then CCp decided that need to be nerfed too
instead of scripting a lot of useless things, script the DD so you can choose between focused or AoE. all of the sudden, drone isuues solved.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1975
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:18:00 -
[180] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:You should consider dropping the tracking bonus from the Dominix and then bringing the optimal bonus back up to 10% per level. This might be the ultimate solution. Either tracking OR range bonus. Not both.
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