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Jonathan Storm
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was reading over these skills and excited to train them up. But then I read the description again. Do you have to have a specific type of module installed to take advantage, like a Shield Hardeners or Energized Plating? The way I read the skill it appears so. If that is the case and youGÇÖre a high skilled combat pilot and in PVP, wouldnGÇÖt it be better to have one of each a Shield Hardeners and an Energized Plating to take advantage of all the skills? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
251
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
yes, those skills relate to modules you need to fit on the ship, the "per skill level" bonuses on the hull are bonuses to the ship, however most of those are in regards to modules you need to fit to the ship. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis CALSF
401
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Armor Comp and Shield Comp skills modify the effectiveness of passive armor and shield modules, such as resistance plating and membranes and passive shield resistance amplifiers. Active armor hardeners and active shield hardeners and invulnerability fields are not affected.
In theory, it might sound nice to harden both armor and shielding, but in practice, it doesn't work out that way. You need to save room for offensive modules, and generally it's more effective to concentrate on one type of tank - either armor or shield - rather than splitting your defensive efforts. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3545
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Posted - 2014.01.16 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is 1 simple rule about dual tanking....Don't. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Also note that, because these skills only affect passive resist modules, they are mostly useful for smaller ships (frigates and destroyers). Larger ships usually have enough spare capacitor to run active hardeners, which provide more resists.
(Although exceptions exists.) |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
184
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Posted - 2014.01.16 21:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:Also note that, because these skills only affect passive resist modules, they are mostly useful for smaller ships (frigates and destroyers). Larger ships usually have enough spare capacitor to run active hardeners, which provide more resists.
(Although exceptions exists.) Thats true for the shield compensation skills, however the armor ones affect active armor hardners too. I am regretting spending time on the shield compensation skills, but am working on level 5 in armor right now (14 days to go!). New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Cara Forelli
Darkstorm Corporation
232
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Posted - 2014.01.16 22:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
"Never dual-tank a ship"
By why Cara? WHY?
Let's say you are armor tanking, and you fit a 1600 plate and an adaptive membrane which boosts your armor resists. Not only do you have more hit points from the plate, but each one is more effective because your resists are higher and you take less damage. Similarly, if you fit an armor repairer instead of a plate, you are able to absorb more dps (because your resists are higher you don't take as much damage and you may be able to hold up against dps that would break your repair tank without the membrane).
Now say you fit a shield resistance amplifier to the same ship. With no shield extender (analog of an armor plate), you shield hit points are very low compared to your armor hit points. The higher shield resists are wasted, because you barely have any hit points. And if you don't have a shield repairer, you won't be able to get any hit points back** (effectively giving you more shield hit points) so again the shield resists are wasted.
So to take advantage of a dual tank properly, you would need not only higher armor and shield resists, but also plates and extenders to give you more hit points (or armor and shield repairers for effective hit points). Even if you could fit all these things on one ship, it's just not efficient to do it this way. Go back to the previous example. You've already got a 1600 plate and an adaptive membrane (armor tanking). You could next add a shield extender. But why would you? Your shield resists are low so it's better to add another plate and take advantage of those high armor resists you already have.
**ignoring passive shield recharge effects www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli |
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
32
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Posted - 2014.01.16 22:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Thomas Builder wrote:Also note that, because these skills only affect passive resist modules, they are mostly useful for smaller ships (frigates and destroyers). Larger ships usually have enough spare capacitor to run active hardeners, which provide more resists.
(Although exceptions exists.) Thats true for the shield compensation skills, however the armor ones affect active armor hardners too. I am regretting spending time on the shield compensation skills, but am working on level 5 in armor right now (14 days to go!).
Well one could argue the key difference here being that a shield tanker has their armor to fall back onto in a worst case scenario. An armor tanker falls into structure - which is not a place you want to be. Armor takes more abuse then shields, I imagine, but there's a higher risk if your tank starts to fail.
A shield tanker at least has their armor to still soak up hits, giving them time to evaluate the situation. An armor tanker has considerably less time, given the inherent risk in relying on your structure to take hits. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1772
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Posted - 2014.01.16 22:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Etria Issen wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Thomas Builder wrote:Also note that, because these skills only affect passive resist modules, they are mostly useful for smaller ships (frigates and destroyers). Larger ships usually have enough spare capacitor to run active hardeners, which provide more resists.
(Although exceptions exists.) Thats true for the shield compensation skills, however the armor ones affect active armor hardners too. I am regretting spending time on the shield compensation skills, but am working on level 5 in armor right now (14 days to go!). Well one could argue the key difference here being that a shield tanker has their armor to fall back onto in a worst case scenario. An armor tanker falls into structure - which is not a place you want to be. Armor takes more abuse then shields, I imagine, but there's a higher risk if your tank starts to fail. A shield tanker at least has their armor to still soak up hits, giving them time to evaluate the situation. An armor tanker has considerably less time, given the inherent risk in relying on your structure to take hits.
Shield tankers do not want to be in armor, ever. Given most (not all) armor tanked ships fit a Damage Control unit, which is much weaker on a shield tanked ship, often a shield tanked ship at 90% armor is closer to popping than an armor tanked ship at 90% structure.
The key uses for these skills are:
- Armor: Improving the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II from 20% resist all to 25% resist all - Shield: Making "Neut Proof" tanks on ships for specific purposes, most notably Nighthawk fits for soloing level 5 security missions, and various fits for PVP when you have solid intel that your opponents favor the Bhaalgorn.
I advise people that favor Amarr or Gallente ships to train all the armor skills to 4 within 3 months of playing and 5 within 2 years, and those that favor shield tanks to train the shield ones to 3 then leave them there unless they have a compelling reason to go further on them. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. EVE's golden rule: Never trust anyone in-game unless you are sleeping with them in real life. Even then, they may only be screwing you to screw you. |
Jonathan Storm
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you for the response and well explained. So I will probably never get the shield resist skills for my Armor tank character and both for my combat spec but focusing only one kind of tanking at a time. Right now I think she is at 3 for all eight skills anyway. |
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1184
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Posted - 2014.01.17 00:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
The armour skills are a lot more useful than the shield skills
a lot of armour tanks field an EANM (which is covered by these skills) there is no passive Omni shield module, and as such the fits based on the shield modules are so situational i've never seen them being used outside of 3rd party fitting apps. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
759
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Posted - 2014.01.17 09:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shield buffer tank (modules that give more raw Shield HP) increases your signature while Armor buffer tank (Plates) makes you more sluggish. Also, a shield repper goes in effect at the beginning of its circle while an armor repper does so only at the end of its circle. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Need to advertise your Corp or service? Look no further, this space is now for rent!
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3546
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Posted - 2014.01.17 15:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nerath Naaris wrote:Shield buffer tank (modules that give more raw Shield HP) increases your signature while Armor buffer tank (Plates) makes you more sluggish. Also, a shield repper goes in effect at the beginning of its circle while an armor repper does so only at the end of its circle.
This.
If you fit both shield extenders (drawback is bigger signature) and armor plates (drawback is less velocity) it makes your ship slower (so easier to keep at enemies desired range + easier to hit/track) and bigger on targeting computers (and thus easier to lock and hit). Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Norm Tempesta
The Konvergent League Sev3rance
60
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Posted - 2014.01.17 23:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
For armor tanking this training does "5% bonus to thermal resistance per level for Armor Coatings and Energized Platings". Not to active hardeners as someone stated.
This is a very good bonus for buffer fit pvp armor doctrines. But I would suggest training the main armor skills first, ie; hull upgrades, mechanics and repair systems all to V.
The shield amplifiers I really don't see used a lot. |
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