Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
133
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stolen from my post in the ESS thread:
If there were deploy-able structures mining asteroids, moons, ice, or planets. What we have is a target for a gang to attack and an objective for the local inhabitants to defend. We can call these structures "farms and fields". They require pvp fit defense ships and haulers for small gangs to bubble and kill on either the station or the "farm and field". Give it a short 5-30 minute RF timer. Balance cost and ROI appropriately.
For instance you can have the cost be greater than or equal to a common ratting ship today. Take for example an ishtar(200m isk). So we can make the structure cost 200-300m isk. Then for ROI we need the structure to be better income than ratting which is currently 50-60m isk/ hr or about the same as running l4 missions in hi sec. Therefore we need to make the income 75m-100m / hr to get people to use it.
Now what we have is a ton of people in null sec putting deployable structures at risk that can't be scooped instantly (5-30min offline/unanchor time). Instead of docking/cloaking up ratters in null sec will defend their structures putting not only their structure at risk ,but their ships as well. Content is generated in fights had over income generating structures.
I think the time should be closer to the 5min unanchor time than the 30 min unanchor time. So that someone can log on deploy their structure, make isk for 30 mins haul everything in and log off making a decent 30-50m isk in a brief hour long play session. The key is to not make it too short though to avoid the current situation of cloaking/docking up.
To expand upon this.
Imagine a new null sec after this change. Instead of a fleet of multiboxing miners what we now have is a bunch of deployable structures in a belt with a hauler shipping the contents to a station and maybe a few defenders. Now a roaming gang comes into the area and maybe RF's a structure or two in the first couple systems. The mining operation has the option to close up shop because they see the hostiles in intel or prepare for the fight. They can't simply cloak or dock up as before making null seem vast and empty to the common roamer.
They decide to fight! This is their sovereign space afterall! Nearby miners must face the decision to abandon their deployable miners to go stop the incursion now or keep hauling isk made from their deployable miner, putting the risk that their own deployable becomming the next target at risk from the approaching horde! Jabber pings are sent out. Friends log on. Maybe an FC stops his morning commute to get onto mumble from his smart phone at a gas station.
The roaming fleet makes short work of the 1 or 2 people making use of the higher true sec border system. They are coming. The scout D-scans and sees only a few scan inhibitors and an abnormal number of hostiles in system. He drops probes and sees a scan inhibitor at the ice anomaly(or new place to drop deployable miners or whatever). He warps landing on grid, he sees the last iteron taking what could be emptied from the deployable miners and a rag tag fleet of cruisers and battlecruisers surrounding the deployable miners.
On comms the scout relays what he sees and the roaming fleet jumps into system warping to their cloaked scout immediately. Upon arriving the fight begins and the roaming gang drops a cyno for their buddies waiting on a blops battlehsip. The defenders are quickly routed and the structures are put into RF mode.
More jabber pings. More numbers! Defenders form up in their nearby capital system.
Meanwhile the hostiles realize that they have 10 or so deployable miners, the equivalent isk to a capital ship about to come out of RF in mere minutes. They batphone for help in case the defenders reform and come back to save their isk printing machines.
The RF timer is up and the hostiles begin shooting the first structure. A covert ops cruiser decloaks and a cyno is lit. 3 carriers appear on grid and begin repping the deployables as the friendly gang jumps in to defend the now exposed carriers! What happens next is determined by pilot and FC skill.
Does CCP want that kind of butterfly effect action in eve/null sec? |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like an auto mining bot that lets me mine a lot less and make a lot more, and have decent reasons to shoot people. only problem is it means less accounts are needed for more mining.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
133
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:I like an auto mining bot that lets me mine a lot less and make a lot more, and have decent reasons to shoot people. Only problem (for ccp) is it means less accounts are needed for more mining.
Limit them to one per account. Problem solved. Alternatively, 1+1 per skill level and reduce cost and mining output accordingly. That just clutters the server with more deployables though. Better to have one per account and a skill that increases its output.
The idea requires you to mine less yourself, but you make more and risk more. Instead of risking a mining ship in a belt, now you would risk a mining deployable and a hauling/pvp ship. |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
So you are basically suggesting a mechanism for highish AFK income that would be more or less invulnerable to harassment and easily defendable by the blob (due to timer) in deep bluesec?
|
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
ah, right the hauling, it would be balanced by the ore hold size. Smaller hold means you have to be there constantly to pick up
Make it small enough and the cycle time fast enough, you'd need a constant stream of people, or it shuts down and is a liability not paying for itself. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4717
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
With everyone being able to use this and passively collect ore it means that there will be a massive increase in ore/mineral supply, less ore/mineral demand (because again, everyone can do it!) the prices for ores/minerals will fall and people will get less for mining and building stuff. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
more freighters/orcas in belts, for the dumb ones, or a steady stream of t2 haulers. don't come out to play? they can grief the undefended expensive structure. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
issue with isk-generating structures is scalability and that they don't have people out in the farms and fields.
The problem with having "people out in the farms and fields" is that working the fields usually means not being in a PVP ship. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
135
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Igor Nappi wrote:So you are basically suggesting a mechanism for highish AFK income that would be more or less invulnerable to harassment and easily defendable by the blob (due to timer) in deep bluesec?
It's not afk. You have to haul stuff. If you go afk for the ore to build up in the deployable miner thing, you leave it and your ore/isk haul at risk with the upside of having a full hold to haul when you get back.
Defendable by the blob is called content. Blob has to defend stuff or the blob suffers income and can't defend in the future.
Batelle wrote:issue with isk-generating structures is scalability and that they don't have people out in the farms and fields.
The problem with having "people out in the farms and fields" is that working the fields usually means not being in a PVP ship.
If people aren't out working the fields, then someone can come burn them!
ShahFluffers wrote:With everyone being able to use this and passively collect ore it means that there will be a massive increase in ore/mineral supply, less ore/mineral demand (because again, everyone can do it!) the prices for ores/minerals will fall and people will get less for mining and building stuff.
Not everyone can use it. I'm sure there will be some skill requirements. This is Eve after all.
It doesn't necessarily have to haul ore/minerals. I hear the empires want this new "covert technology" stuff. Mining is a great example, but if the CCP economists are worried about the mineral markets it can just as easily be "reasearch labs" or something else that can be traded for LP or used by players some other way. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Would Rats agress such a deployable, and require routine patrols to clear them out? Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
|
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
136
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:Would Rats agress such a deployable, and require routine patrols to clear them out?
Instant pvp right there, just need to do a bit of stalking
Rats would make things challenging for the solo person who wants to sit and guard his deployable field until it is full and then switch to a hauling ship to scoop his loot/deployable up. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3388
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:With everyone being able to use this and passively collect ore it means that there will be a massive increase in ore/mineral supply, less ore/mineral demand (because again, everyone can do it!) the prices for ores/minerals will fall and people will get less for mining and building stuff.
Issue #1: 100m isk worth of ORE is a HUGE amount. Depending on the ore, your looking at 100-400 isk / m3. If you want 100m in an our, that's 250,000 - 750,000 m3 of ore every hour. In other words, only a freighter could collect an hours worth of material.
Issue #2: While I believe the mechanics around the idea are viable, I think its implemented reward is flawed. The problem with miners, is they mine themselves into poverty. The value of minerals is completely based on the supply and demand for minerals. This would undoubtedly increase mineral supply, so what will balance its demand so minerals retain that 100m isk/hr you desire?
|
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:With everyone being able to use this and passively collect ore it means that there will be a massive increase in ore/mineral supply, less ore/mineral demand (because again, everyone can do it!) the prices for ores/minerals will fall and people will get less for mining and building stuff. Issue #1: 100m isk worth of ORE is a HUGE amount. Depending on the ore, your looking at 100-400 isk / m3. If you want 100m in an our, that's 250,000 - 750,000 m3 of ore every hour. In other words, only a freighter could collect an hours worth of material. Issue #2: While I believe the mechanics around the idea are viable, I think its implemented reward is flawed. The problem with miners, is they mine themselves into poverty. The value of minerals is completely based on the supply and demand for minerals. This would undoubtedly increase mineral supply, so what will balance its demand so minerals retain that 100m isk/hr you desire? Not everyone will use this. Limit it to null sec. Skill requirements. Etc.
1) It doesn't have to be ore. It can be ore / Ice / PI goods / moon goo / LP / New item XXX. Also, there is that new iteron thing that can haul 60+ km of ore.
2) Again doesn't have to be ore. Certain goods will increase in demand though as people buy things to build new "farm and field" items and lose ships attacking/defending/killing them. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4718
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 22:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Do understand that...
- few people would set these things up in areas prone to hostile incursions. They would be deep in 0.0 alliance territory running 24/7 - if people do set these up in "hostile areas" it is because they feel they can earn enough ISK plus extra to cover their inevitable losses (see: ISK-tanking) - skills can be easily overcome. It just takes time. Once you have them though... hauling out the goods is easy... like, webbed freighter easy (with a good warp-in you can land, grab, web and warp in about about 30 to 40 seconds). - part of the reason people buy minerals (see: demand) is because almost no one wants to sit in one spot doing it. You are effectively removing that demand and giving everyone the capacity to earn their own minerals (which will also affect builders too as why buy from the market when you can build your own stuff with the "free" minerals you collected?). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
142
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Do understand that...
- few people would set these things up in areas prone to hostile incursions. They would be deep in 0.0 alliance territory running 24/7 - if people do set these up in "hostile areas" it is because they feel they can earn enough ISK plus extra to cover their inevitable losses (see: ISK-tanking) - skills can be easily overcome. It just takes time. Once you have them though... hauling out the goods is easy... like, webbed freighter easy (with a good warp-in you can land, grab, web and warp in about about 30 to 40 seconds). - part of the reason people buy minerals (see: demand) is because almost no one wants to sit in one spot doing it. You are effectively removing that demand and giving everyone the capacity to earn their own minerals (which will also affect builders too as why buy from the market when you can build your own stuff with the "free" minerals you collected?).
1) Then those people will not get the potential rewards from utilizing this new system. The roaming gangs will go "deep in alliane sov" to get fights/disrupt money making.
2) If they set up in "hostile areas" then locals end up coming out and content is generated! Mission accomplished!
3) It depends on the size of stuff these produce. Hopefully it isn't so big that it requires a freighter to haul. That would make little sense.
4) Who said anything about minerals? I don't think you understand supply and demand. Demand for minerals will always exist so long as player wish to buy ships. Demand for minerals will increase as PVP increases which will cause ships to be lost and require more minerals to replace said ships. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2302
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
If these things cost 200mil and make 100mil an hour, all I have to do is run one for two hours and it's payed for itself. Why bother defending it after that point?
Now, if it's got a 30 minute RF timer and there's, say, a 20 man gang roaming your space, they'll have killed several of them by the time anyone forms up to hit them. And if you do form up to fight them, they'll come back again and again and again, whereas if you ignore them and just go somewhere else like people do at the moment, they'll go find a more fun target to play with.
And how do you have a better understanding of supply and demand? You are literally stating that a MASSIVE increase in supply will do nothing whatsoever to prices. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
445
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:If these things cost 200mil and make 100mil an hour, all I have to do is run one for two hours and it's payed for itself. Why bother defending it after that point?
In theory, because you'd save money on not needing to replace it. In practice, once you pass a certain threshold, you'll write off saving it as not worth the effort.
@OP: how big do you imagine fights over one of these being? |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
123
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 00:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'll shorten your post:
I hate miners.
I hate mining.
Lots of gibber-jabber about some scenario where you and your kind benefit while you basically remove someone else's chosen profession from most of New Eden.
I have a counter proposal: All of us miners (and for that matter anyone else that wants to) can flag ourselves as "not interested in pvp", this allows us to fly anywhere in the game and be invulnerable to any form of pvp.
In short, stealing from some other profession because it doesnt suit your tastes is selfish and hopefully such a God awful idea that CCP wont even begin to consider it. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:If these things cost 200mil and make 100mil an hour, all I have to do is run one for two hours and it's payed for itself. Why bother defending it after that point? In theory, because you'd save money on not needing to replace it. In practice, once you pass a certain threshold, you'll write off saving it as not worth the effort. @OP: how big do you imagine fights over one of these being?
Perhaps the example cost isn't optimal. I'll let CCP figure that out.
Typical roaming gangs are 5-10 ships. Solo roamers will target them. Larger fleets without strategic objectives could go mow down an entire region.
So anywhere between 1v1 to 200v200.
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:I'll shorten your post:
I hate miners.
I hate mining.
Lots of gibber-jabber about some scenario where you and your kind benefit while you basically remove someone else's chosen profession from most of New Eden.
I have a counter proposal: All of us miners (and for that matter anyone else that wants to) can flag ourselves as "not interested in pvp", this allows us to fly anywhere in the game and be invulnerable to any form of pvp.
In short, stealing from some other profession because it doesnt suit your tastes is selfish and hopefully such a God awful idea that CCP wont even begin to consider it.
I don't hate mining. It doesn't even have to mine ore or ice. Again, I'll let ccp figure that out.
What is the difference between an afk mackinaw that docks up every 20 minutes or so and a dude in a pvp ship babysitting a deployable structure?
One of these situations leads to pvp. The other leads to a dude docking up. Do you want an eve with more content or less?
Danika Princip wrote:If these things cost 200mil and make 100mil an hour, all I have to do is run one for two hours and it's payed for itself. Why bother defending it after that point?
Now, if it's got a 30 minute RF timer and there's, say, a 20 man gang roaming your space, they'll have killed several of them by the time anyone forms up to hit them. And if you do form up to fight them, they'll come back again and again and again, whereas if you ignore them and just go somewhere else like people do at the moment, they'll go find a more fun target to play with.
And how do you have a better understanding of supply and demand? You are literally stating that a MASSIVE increase in supply will do nothing whatsoever to prices.
If you don't defend it, you effectively make no money for 2 hours of work.
If you ignore them they get km's and isk from killing your structures and looting them. They will want to come back. If you defend them, and win they will either decide it isn't worth attacking your space which is defended or come back with more friends.
I understand supply/demand just fine. I'm not sure where you are getting this "massive" increase in supply from. I haven't even stated what these things produce. That's for ccp to decide. It could simply be isk tokens like the blue loot from wh npcs or ghost sites. Or, if they are worried about isk/material sinks/faucets it could be LP. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2309
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:Danika Princip wrote:If these things cost 200mil and make 100mil an hour, all I have to do is run one for two hours and it's payed for itself. Why bother defending it after that point?
Now, if it's got a 30 minute RF timer and there's, say, a 20 man gang roaming your space, they'll have killed several of them by the time anyone forms up to hit them. And if you do form up to fight them, they'll come back again and again and again, whereas if you ignore them and just go somewhere else like people do at the moment, they'll go find a more fun target to play with.
And how do you have a better understanding of supply and demand? You are literally stating that a MASSIVE increase in supply will do nothing whatsoever to prices. If you don't defend it, you effectively make no money for 2 hours of work. If you ignore them they get km's and isk from killing your structures and looting them. They will want to come back. If you defend them, and win they will either decide it isn't worth attacking your space which is defended or come back with more friends. I understand supply/demand just fine. I'm not sure where you are getting this "massive" increase in supply from. I haven't even stated what these things produce. That's for ccp to decide. It could simply be isk tokens like the blue loot from wh npcs or ghost sites. Or, if they are worried about isk/material sinks/faucets it could be LP.
But it's not work, it's free stuff. There's no effort involved. And what the hell kind of roaming gang have you been on where shooting a bunch of structures is considered a good way to spend your time?
The massive increase in minerals comes from the fact that these things will be blanketed across space. They will be everywhere, there will be hundreds of them. If they're producing 100mil of ISK worth of minerals an hour, that is going to be a tremendous increase in the amount of minerals available. There is absolutely no way that can be denied. (You did, after all, state in the OP that it's a mining structure. How is it going to mine the belts for tags?)
A massive increase in minerals will drop the arse out of the market for them, same as drone poo did. |
|
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
126
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
IrJosy wrote: I don't hate mining. It doesn't even have to mine ore or ice. Again, I'll let ccp figure that out.
What is the difference between an afk mackinaw that docks up every 20 minutes or so and a dude in a pvp ship babysitting a deployable structure?
One of these situations leads to pvp. The other leads to a dude docking up. Do you want an eve with more content or less?
1. Your first line of your post clearly states that they will be, "deployables that mine asteroids"....Sheesh the title of your post is "Farms and Fields", meaning those things like asteroid belts that some of us farm as our preferred form of game play. So, you dont get to skate by with saying you didnt intend for them to destroy all the farming professions.
2. You take a guard put them into a heavy piece of equipment like a dump truck and tell them to operate it. They wont be able to do it, why because guarding is not doing, it is guarding. You are eliminating a profession (mining) and creating nothing since guarding stuff already is required in the game (see SOV etc. if you dont think guarding as a profession already exists).
3. Removing all the farming professions and putting in more guard duties takes content out of the game, it doesn't add anything.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3900
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 15:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:3. Removing all the farming professions and putting in more guard duties takes content out of the game, it doesn't add anything. Yeah... I'm going to have to insert my opinion on this point.
I am a miner, and right now interaction with the game boils down to this: (No hostiles) Target asteroid, fill hold, involve hauler. Rinse & repeat.
(With hostiles) Run away or explode. The excel sheets don't lie, over time this is the least effort / greatest reward path for mining. Mining ops, while fun, are as much if not more about social interaction, and this interaction actually draws in non miners to hang out and participate in these too brief events.
The original idea was to have players risking their ships more in some areas, in exchange for better yields. What emerged was instead a "best practice" which amounted to avoid hostiles due to no PvP cover.
Why guard the miners like me? It is dull and at best you get to shoot a few rats while waiting. Those wanting PvP find their needs better met going on roams, so that is exactly what they do.
Ok, so why does this work at gate camps? I see PvP pilots standing a post their quite often! Ah, that is because they are still following the path of least effort / greatest reward by doing that. They can't mitigate the risk from hostiles popping through these bottlenecks more efficiently. Mining ships can avoid risk by docking, but noone knows how to stop the incoming hostiles beyond direct intervention this way.
The pilots at a gate camp would probably jump onto a roam too, except they find two things happen: 1. The excel sheets indicate alliance losses are less overall by maintaining these camps. 2. Despite them being common knowledge, other players will still try to run them IF they think they have a decent chance. That means either overwhelming force trying to plow through, or cloaked / speedy ships trying to dodge the guards. Those defending the camps want to get out the intel about these intruders ASAP either way, making the case that they are also observation posts in the event they cannot block entry.
TL;DR: Make defending mining interests something that requires interaction, rather than avoidance as a best practice, and the game benefits. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
55
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 20:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think this would be fun. I also think it has the possibility to tank the market. +1 from me. |
Ze'nedra
Digital Instrumental Machines
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is not the Farmville you were looking for! |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3905
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ze'nedra wrote:This is not the Farmville you were looking for! Real miners don't want farmville.
The Miner's Manifesto:
Real miners also are not grinding in order to play the parts of the game they prefer over mining.
Real miners want to mine. Mining is the end game for us.
To a miner, you are either grinding ore, trying to be more efficient grinding ore, or attacking those in a different alliance who grind ore. Ratting happens when rats interrupt mining. They are a distraction to be eliminated, not sought out.
PvP is a distraction. Letting it stop mining is a flaw on the miner's part, as they are pouting over conditions not being perfect. Refusing to undock is equivalent to throwing a temper tantrum. Throwing temper tantrums is not a sign of maturity, we don't reliably get to have it our way when dealing with other people. Adapt.
Miners WANT to compete with other miners. Be it in the market place, or sneaking up on each other to sabotage efforts by hostiles.
Miners do it with Deep Core Strip Miner II's.
The Orca is a RV, and the Rorqual is a Mobile Home.
We keep pet drones, and one of my Vespa II's think that you got a purty mouth. It might come to greet you when you visit. Smile purty for it. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
While parts of the OP are seriously flawed, I like the idea that you have something valuable and fragile in space that requires protection. While choosing to dock up is an option, it is not that fun.
Perhaps instead of more deployable structures, mining barges should get the option to enter a siege mode that drastically increases yield and tank, at the expense of immobility - a bastion mode for 0.0 mining. Mining barges would be able to receive remote reps in this mode. This would require accounts in space, which is good for CCP. And, with deployed rorqual and/or carrier support, they could be made tough enough to provoke an escalation by the roaming gang.
Solo or poorly-prepared miners could still be caught and killed, but those willing to increase the risk get greater rewards if they can get organized well-enough.
Eve needs something an invading force can pillage, without things bring too easy for one side or the other. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Dirala
Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the title Farm and Fields. Its an aspect which can be very fruitfull for small gang pvp. Burn down your enemys ISK making capabilities in the long run and force him to protect his space not on a SOV level. Giving out free stuff in the very empty null sec isn't my idea of it.
I was thinking more in the lines of:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4136005#post4136005
"Mobile Incursion Unit"
- Only one Unit per system. - akts like a warp beacon - Disrupts ratting bounty Constellation wide by 10% - Every Unit dropped in different Systems of the Constellation increases the effekt of all Units in the Constellation by 2.5%. (so 5 Systems with the MIU gives a total 20% disruption)
Stats are like the Mobile Medium Warp Disrupter.
When destroyed, it stays inaktiv for 5 hours until it disappears. (Hence only one can be dropped every 5 hours per system) This should give the ratting people the reward of not beeing disrupted again for 5 hours. And that you cant spam those things.
Without it beeing destroyed it stays in space for 24hours.
The Goal is, to have the ability to provoke fights. Taunt people to form up a fleet to fight or live with a small disruption of ratting capabilities if unwilling to form up to protect the ratting space. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
3905
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
In my opinion, if you want people to fight over resources, then the key is to expose the resources.
Sure, put this deployable object out there.
BUT, make destroying it the least attractive option for a hostile. Give that hostile an incentive to be sneaky and greedy all in one.
Let ANYONE take the contents of the device, thus giving them a reward for boldly venturing into hostile space, while also creating a reason for defenders to make an appearance. By all means, just like that ratting bounty deployable being discussed, let people be told in real time if someone is accessing the storage bin. A popup window telling everyone who happen to be paying attention.
But wait! How can someone take so much ore and run away with it! Yep... they'll need to bring something to haul with, won't they....
I see potential for great violence surrounding this... Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 18:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
You have to give people something to fight over that compels them to fight. If not right this instant, at some time soon.
When the Vikings come to raid and pillage, I run for the castle. If I make it, I laugh at them from the walls. They respond by raping the cattle and stampeding the women who didn't make it inside. The local lord gets his army together and chases away the Vikings. There is no incentive for me to leave my castle, unless the Vikings have caught something expensive and resilient enough that it can be saved. Unless that exists, the best solution is for me to wait them out. The target has to be tough enough that some interceptors cannot take it down, but not so tough that it requires a huge fleet. The goal is to put something at risk that is worth the roaming gang's time and worth standing and fighting to attack or defend. CCP has yet to find this balance. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 19:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:In my opinion, if you want people to fight over resources, then the key is to expose the resources.
Sure, put this deployable object out there.
BUT, make destroying it the least attractive option for a hostile. Give that hostile an incentive to be sneaky and greedy all in one.
Let ANYONE take the contents of the device, thus giving them a reward for boldly venturing into hostile space, while also creating a reason for defenders to make an appearance. By all means, just like that ratting bounty deployable being discussed, let people be told in real time if someone is accessing the storage bin. A popup window telling everyone who happen to be paying attention.
But wait! How can someone take so much ore and run away with it! Yep... they'll need to bring something to haul with, won't they....
I see potential for great violence surrounding this...
I like the look of that idea, and its completely in line with CCP's "give everyone more options to be dicks to every/anyone," expansion theme. I forsee many humorous instances of basic cloak fit t1 haulers invading belts, scooping loot, jetcanning it and popping it.
Why bother actually taking it for yourself, when you can pop the stuff not worth carrying, and just try to make off with the expensive stuff? Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |