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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 10:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
No mention of any change to this for Rubicon 1.1. CCP is reimbursing people but this may well be out of pity. There are pilots that do this full time and to my knowledge no one from CCP has told them to stop. As much as I like PVP and even occasional ganking this seems to be a bad feature. Basically you're tricking the system to allow you to get a limited engagement timer.
Maybe this is "Working as intended" because CCP does promote piracy and ganking as a way to get subscribers. Eve is the only game I know that not only allows but encourages you to grief other players. The evil side of me likes this sometimes |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 10:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sar Hobonim wrote:Batelle wrote:Sar Hobonim wrote:Safety set to green. Safety=green doesn't mean no PVP. The safety exists to keep you from ending up on the wrong side of crimewatch. Legal targets (such as someone who shoots your MTU) will always be shootable regardless of the setting of your safety. This is not a bug with the safety. Or particularly a bug with drones. When someone intrudes on your mission, its a good idea to scoop em or set them passive. What did you get attacked by that was able to kill your golem? Ishtar with Garde II's It's not hard to kill a PVE fitted ship with a PVP ship fitted for that purpose. You fit PVE ships for DPS and just enough tank for the rats. Even ships that are "noob tanked" will go down if you neut their cap. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
57
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote: Before, no one could aggress you if you didn't commit illegal acts, without concord intervening.
Uh, yes they could. You shoot someone they get to shoot back. How long have you been playing EVE?? |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
58
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:1) I usually post from a phone and that's a nightmare and 2) The whole thread offers context and other bits and pieces such as the thread being relocated there and peoples beliefs and posting history. You don't need to take my word for it, or even read a single post: I couldn't give a rats ass if you do, or do not
There are no GM nor CCP employees that have posted in that thread. Put up or shut up. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
279
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Also, passive is bugged. Passive drones don't stay passive on assist. Because you have given them the command to assist someone. They will continue to assist until you tell them to stop. That's the point, the person being assisted has stopped firing. The drones do not. Try it. Unless you're saying they should continue to free-fire...in which case....on what targets, why and why then is there a guard setting at all? Why wont they engage immediately on the assist command but they need the person to open fire - but continue to free fire after that first target is down and the person being assisted has stopped shooting? Are the drones of the assisted person still attacking? I use drone assist all the time & have not come accross this issue you seem to be having difficulty with. I'm not having difficulty because I don't use the units. Also because I use guard because it's faster and needs no locking so is wonderful to stomp EWAR I'll test this tonight and confirm. I couldnt honestly say for sure. Edit: They kept firing, assising a gunboat with none of its own drones out. They shot the initial target as the mach did, the machs guns then fell silent - they then shot ships aggressing the mach. Later, the drones caught their own aggro and returned fire too. Drones definately set to passive.
It doesn't matter if you had your drones set to passive. You assisted them to another player, and when he shot at the griefer; the drones automatically attacked too. Drones that are assisted to another player do not require that player to have dones out. The drones automatically aggro anything that player aggresses. Using guns or drones isn't the only way to aggress another player. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
716
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 16:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote: Before, no one could aggress you if you didn't commit illegal acts, without concord intervening.
Uh, yes they could. You shoot someone they get to shoot back. How long have you been playing EVE??
And you can't shoot at them without them without concord intervening, unless they committed illegal acts.
But I should have been more precise: "Before, no one could aggress you if you didn't commit illegal acts *or aggress them*, without concord intervening."
You may reply that the drones are aggressing them... but that is only after they have aggressed you.
Before, no one could aggress you if you didn't commit illegal acts or aggress them. It required a conscious deliberate decision to aggress them without concord intervening. Now Drones (and again, won't this work with FOF missiles too?) will auto aggress in situations where concord will not intervene.
I suppose there is a fuzzy line between what is emergent gameplay, and an exploit. Both involve gameplay not intended by the developer.
CCP clearly intended for these structures to be attackable, but like a bug or exploit, it may have unintended consequences.
CCP has never expressed any view that would imply they intended to allow drones to automatically start limited engagements without concord intervention (something that was previously not possible).
Therefore, this would appear to be an unintended consequence, and very likely an exploit.
The lack of CCP action to declare it so does not mean that it isn't. Many previous exploits were used for at least this long before CCP declared them an exploit.
In the meantime, don't set your drones to aggressive, and accept that your drones will not fire when you get hit by E-war that prevents you from targeting, also be careful with FOF missiles. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
614
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 16:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:It doesn't matter if you had your drones set to passive. You assisted them to another player, and when he shot at the griefer; the drones automatically attacked too. Drones that are assisted to another player do not require that player to have dones out. The drones automatically aggro anything that player aggresses. Using guns or drones isn't the only way to aggress another player.
You miss the point, or it is unclear.
1) Passive drones [Drones are idle] 2) Assist target [Drones are idle] 3) Target fires [Drones are active] 4) Target CEASES fire, it's target is dead.
Expected outcome here at this point [Drones are idle] until the person they are assisting shoots again...except they're not - the drones KEEP shooting, even though the person whom they were assisting has stopped firing and it's target is dead. They shoot people aggressing the other ship, they shoot things aggressing them. They are anything but passive.
Drone assist is working more like "guard", which it shouldn't be.
I'm not talking about shooting another player [and being surprised the drones 'assist'] specifically here - I'm talking about the general behaviour of passive drones and the assist command.
I would expect (and it is a reasonable assumption considering the existence of the GUARD command) that passive drones set to assist ONLY open fire at targets the 'assistee' is shooting at and when the 'assistee' is not shooting (and it's target is dead), neither are the drones. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
279
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 20:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Even if the person stops firing at the target, if the target is still alive; the drones will continue to agress until the target is dead or recalled by the owner. The person doesn't have to just shoot the target, agression can come from using a web, target painting, sensor damping, etc. Any use of an offensive mod on the target causes aggression. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
616
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
The target was dead, I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
The drones proceeded to shoot OTHER things aggressive either them or the assistee with no further action taken by EITHER pilot. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
624
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The target was dead, I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
The drones proceeded to shoot OTHER things aggressive either them or the assistee with no further action taken by EITHER pilot.
Maybe it was a zombie ship?
One day CCP will get drone mechanics right.... Okay maybe not but it's a good dream |
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Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
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Posted - 2014.01.22 10:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:The target was dead, I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
The drones proceeded to shoot OTHER things aggressive either them or the assistee with no further action taken by EITHER pilot.
Do the pilot with drones assisting him set drones passive? I know, he possibly do not have his own drones out at this moment, but I think, the setting: drones aggresive yes/no may still exist and possibly affect behavior of assisting drones.
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
617
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 12:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Pilot 2 was aggressive, that was my next thought to test, but haven't had the time to test and that's more than a bit dodgy if it does work like that!
I wonder what happens if that pilot has no drone bay thus no settings.... |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
785
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 12:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Petition.
Get answer from CCP.
Ignore everybody else. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Sar Hobonim
Reality Dysfunction Inc. The Five
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 19:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Thanks to everyone who took the time to post a comment on this thread.
CCP do act with honour - I've had the Golem back - less those modules which dropped.
I consider the matter closed. |
hegheghegheg
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.01.25 11:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Has any CCP dev made a comment on this issue? If so can someone please post.
augie bendogie has replies from GM's on this issue, and it was clearly stated that is simply game mechanics. |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 11:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
yes.. I had this EXACT thing happen to me before... and i petitioned GM.. I was told this is a game mechanic... and I was not eligible for ANY sort of reimbursement This was with GM spider.. who at the time had been a GM for 4 days.. so I asked for another GM to take a look at the matter and he supported the original decision.. I DEFINITELY do not think this is fair treatment when my loss was not reimbursed and yours was UNDER THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES!! Should I reopen this petition?? |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 01:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bump... what should I do??? |
Sar Hobonim
Reality Dysfunction Inc. The Five
2
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Posted - 2014.01.26 18:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
augie bendoggy wrote:Bump... what should I do???
Ask CCP to look at the facts again. This is part of the e-mail that they sent to me.
What occurred in this instance is where the player attacked your MTU. Once they had done this they waited for your drones to attack them to start a PVP engagement. Your drones attacked this player even though you has safety set to green as they had attacked your property and gained a Suspect Flag, making them a legal target. This is a known issue at this time which is how we were able to reimburse you your ship. If this occurs again, please do not hesitate to let us know. Best regards, GM Luthor CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514 |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 08:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thank you Sar Hobonim.
I have opened another ticket asking for a reassessment of the first ticket. Hopefully this will lead somewhere, or at the lease get the problem addressed. |
Sar Hobonim
Reality Dysfunction Inc. The Five
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 23:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Patch Notes for Rubicon 1.1 28.01.2014 17:13
FIXES Gameplay
Drones that are set to aggressive will no longer perform automatic actions against a target if those actions would trigger a new Limited Engagement, unless explicitly instructed to engage that target. |
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Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
151
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 02:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The target was dead, I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
The drones proceeded to shoot OTHER things aggressive either them or the assistee with no further action taken by EITHER pilot. Maybe it was a zombie ship? One day CCP will get drone mechanics right.... Okay maybe not but it's a good dream
hahaha yeah they are really trying but.... yeah lol There is a suggestion in Forums & Ideas that will make it harder for griefers to grief missioners. Unique Mission Item Theft Rebalance
Be sure to "like" the original post if you support it. |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Well I finally got a response to my ticket
"At the time that you filed the ticket in question, this was considered normal game mechanics. We have since changed the game mechanics so that this does not occur anymore. However, we are unable to offer reimbursement or compensation for game design changes.
If you have any other questions or problems, please let us know.
Best regards, Senior GM Pyro EVE Online Customer Support Team"
wow... i dont know what to say... oh well |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
672
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
augie bendoggy wrote:Well I finally got a response to my ticket
"At the time that you filed the ticket in question, this was considered normal game mechanics. We have since changed the game mechanics so that this does not occur anymore. However, we are unable to offer reimbursement or compensation for game design changes.
If you have any other questions or problems, please let us know.
Best regards, Senior GM Pyro EVE Online Customer Support Team"
wow... i dont know what to say... oh well
I know some got their ships back but you probably got an unsympathetic GM... |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 02:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
well there needs to be consistency among ALL GMs.... not just the ohh Im lucky I got the good one.. and btw... this is the 3rd GM to talk to me on this matter
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
672
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 02:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
augie bendoggy wrote:well there needs to be consistency among ALL GMs.... not just the ohh Im lucky I got the good one.. and btw... this is the 3rd GM to talk to me on this matter
Ah maybe they got some official word not to replace losses. At least they patched this feature |
augie bendoggy
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 02:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
maybe so... but i can assure you that it leaves a very sour taste in my mount to not be treated equally... btw.. i originally opened the ticket for this on 11/27/13 |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
809
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 05:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sar Hobonim wrote:When CCP brought in the mobile tractor unit I thought that it would help a great deal in missions. However I have just experienced the downside. Mission in 0.7 security system, Safety set to green. Drones set to aggressive. In mission. In comes another player. Shoots my MTU which causes my drones to aggress him. Suddenly PVE becomes PVP and I lose my Golem. Corp member found this link http://themittani.com/features/mission-runners-proclaim-exploitHas anyone else been hit with this?
Never dawned on ya to pull drones when a neut lands on grid.
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Chill5
Bart's Brewery
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 02:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Dyphorus wrote:Sar Hobonim wrote:Drones set to aggressive. In mission. You're mistake, your fault. This is not new. The agro mechanics were made very clear before they were added to the game. You chose to use something you obviously didn't understand and paid the consequences. Aside from the fact that this is a known mechanic, you can't glance sideways at the forums without seeing someone else that didn't bother to read up on something new they decided to use. It's everywhere, and you still didn't pay attention. All the MTU does is encourage people to put their drones on passive and make them manually attack. This has the terrible side effect of making people have actually pay a small bit of attention to the game while running missions, I know it's almost too much to handle.
you smarmy, self righteous, know-it-all. It's jerks like you who ruin the forums.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
673
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 03:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
Okay everyone does know that this has been patched right?....
I realize some people are still upset but it's over now. You can safely deploy your MTU without a care in the world
Edit: You're still open to any other form of PVP so a slight care in the world would be recommended |
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