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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10053
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
all of this nonsense about some pro-PL CCP plot is nonsense and nobody of note is saying that that is the case, we know bad calls were made on our end and it cost us a fight that could have resulted in a solid number of supercapitals dying on both sides
but obviously ncdot likes easy victories Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10053
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
also i'm lollin' at the publord who thinks that HED-GG indicates that Goonswarm will lose its "homeland" Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
ElQuirko
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
3202
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dace Onio wrote:you reap what you sow Shiptoasting alt detected Dodixie > Hek |
Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
5
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Should just get rid of highsec all together. No more NPC Empire owned space.
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Prince Kobol
1365
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Andski wrote:all of this nonsense about some pro-PL CCP plot is nonsense and nobody of note is saying that that is the case, we know bad calls were made on our end and it cost us a fight that could have resulted in a solid number of supercapitals dying on both sides
but obviously ncdot likes easy victories
You realise you are the first person from CFC/RUS to actually admit you made bad calls.. out of off these threads that have been locked with both members from both RUS/CFC crying that is pretty bad.
Erm.. are you saying that its N3/PL fault that you screwed up? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9905
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Alice Ituin wrote:Oh look! A thread about HED. I was starting to wonder why there weren't any threads discussing the incident. Plug in Baby wrote:I'm not a CFC sympathizer, in fact as a cap producer I'm pretty happy with the HED outcome. However am I correct in thinking there is no real counter to the following strategy in null sov war? .... If the enemy fills up the system completely, then yes there is nothing you can do about it at that point. However this is not what happened in HED. There was enough room to accommodate a fleet twice as large as the fleet already on grid. If you fill up that space with a subcap blob instead of countering the caps with dreads it's really your own fault when you lose the fight. Apparently not, according to many CFC/RUS pilots you should be able to bridge in 10 times as many as the opposing fleet and if you cant then its because the servers are crap / CCP has dev's which support PL / CCP lies / excuse excuse excuse
Just to point out, PL/N3 can match us in numbers. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
678
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Andski has always been pretty honest in my opinion. On these forums at least. I think it's cool that he through water on that fire. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Apparently not, according to many CFC/RUS pilots you should be able to bridge in 10 times as many as the opposing fleet and if you cant then its because the servers are crap / CCP has dev's which support PL / CCP lies / excuse excuse excuse 10 times as many? Yes 15000 people tried to jump into the system.
Alice Ituin wrote:If the enemy fills up the system completely, then yes there is nothing you can do about it at that point. However this is not what happened in HED. There was enough room to accommodate a fleet twice as large as the fleet already on grid. If you fill up that space with a subcap blob instead of countering the caps with dreads it's really your own fault when you lose the fight. Just FYI, most capital fleets need a subcap support fleet, otherwise they will get smooshed. There was no "instead of". You jump the subcap fleet in, then you put your capitals in. There was no reason to think that 3400 people would mean endless jump tunnels. For the 15th time, hindsight is 20/20. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1703
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
So if you were a really clever general and you knew that your enemy was comitted at point A, you would go and kick him in the balls at point Y in the meantime instead of hitting him force on force. Sadly New Eden is devoid of people who actually understand "strategy". |
Sul Glass
Iron Crown JINN.
25
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dace Onio wrote:you reap what you sow
You reap what you sov |
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2439
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:So if you were a really clever general and you knew that your enemy was comitted at point A, you would go and kick him in the balls at point Y in the meantime instead of hitting him force on force. Sadly New Eden is devoid of people who actually understand "strategy". So in your mind, choosing to defend an asset is a lack of strategy? While they mashed a final timer, taking a system, we should have gone and started a timer for something we didn't want and was of no strategic importance to us? Is that essentially what you are saying?
If there were know timers, then what you are saying would be half right, instead of defending it would be a reasonable decision to counter-attack, but in EVE the timers prevent that. Sure we could have started a timer going, but what would that have accomplished? Instead, we assumed CCP would have done their job and since they were using the mega node from Jita had every expectation for a very big battle. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9905
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:So if you were a really clever general and you knew that your enemy was comitted at point A, you would go and kick him in the balls at point Y in the meantime instead of hitting him force on force. Sadly New Eden is devoid of people who actually understand "strategy".
The plan was to cripple their super fleet. We had the firepower to do it, we will have the firepower again, the problem is the servers cannot handle it.
Until this node issue is solved there will be two colossal capital fleets that cannot engage each other continuing to grow. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2226
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
I wonder how many simultaneous attacks in different systems could have been made with 2000+ ships? Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
943
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bigger the blob better the job is what I have learned from PvP MMOs.
And, everybody wants to be on the winning side. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2226
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Posted - 2014.01.21 05:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So in your mind, choosing to defend an asset is a lack of strategy?
Trading a pawn for a queen certainly is.
Lucas Kell wrote:While they mashed a final timer, taking a system, we should have gone and started a timer for something we didn't want and was of no strategic importance to us?
No, you should have started a timer for something that was of strategic importance to them. Wait, change that. You should have started timers on several targets that they would have to defend later.
You lose one thing, they lose two... or more. See above.
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
173
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Posted - 2014.01.21 06:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:So if you were a really clever general and you knew that your enemy was comitted at point A, you would go and kick him in the balls at point Y in the meantime instead of hitting him force on force. Sadly New Eden is devoid of people who actually understand "strategy".
Really?
Show us throughout history where clever Generals have only ever attacked elsewhere and never taken an opposing force head on at strength.
For each one you can demonstrate, I'll lay a bet I can show you at least 10 more where a really clever General has met an opposing force directly and won.
When it comes to war, generalisations about strategy can always be countered by specifics, because there is no single strategy that is the "cleverest". |
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
113
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Posted - 2014.01.21 06:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Eve internet war strategistGǪ Why the hell did I have to attend the War College in Newport when I couldGÇÖve have just came here. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
316
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
The issue is that you coudl fight the BS using bombers , LR tier 3 BC, etc - they can be killed using subacpital fleet. Now when N3 deployed almost 900 capitals and supers - the only thing that could eat thru their defense ( repair abilities and ehp) was massive dread fleet and subcap fleet.
We know all how this ended - eve didn't managed to keep up....
But you are right that's the strategy to win all timers. TIDI IS NIGHTMARE - CCP SHOW US THE TIMERS Reactivation timers on : MJD and more. Please like & post in this idea to keep it visible. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
784
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Warfare & Tactics. I have also removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1704
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So in your mind, choosing to defend an asset is a lack of strategy? While they mashed a final timer, taking a system, we should have gone and started a timer for something we didn't want and was of no strategic importance to us? Is that essentially what you are saying?
Don't worry, appropriately named Space Monkey, just keep throwing the big ships at each other and hope that this time it will be different.
Something we didn't want is not the same as something the enemy wants/can't afford to lose. But ok, keep running after timers and playing whack a mole, just don't wonder why it's always the same. |
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
116
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Posted - 2014.01.21 13:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Best thing is when goons claim in 6vdt everything went fine and only in hed there where those problems, when in 6vdt we had the same problems, although we didn't jump directly on grid. But hey in 6vdt goons where first on grid and I guess its only a problem when it affects you |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1976
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Posted - 2014.01.21 15:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
Title says "Strategy" not "Tactics", this is "Warfare & Tactics" , not "Structure Grind & Strategy." Please move this thread back to wherever it came from. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2443
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Posted - 2014.01.21 16:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So in your mind, choosing to defend an asset is a lack of strategy? Trading a pawn for a queen certainly is. Lucas Kell wrote:While they mashed a final timer, taking a system, we should have gone and started a timer for something we didn't want and was of no strategic importance to us? No, you should have started a timer for something that was of strategic importance to them. Wait, change that. You should have started timers on several targets that they would have to defend later. You lose one thing, they lose two... or more. See above. I think it's pretty clear why you are not a leading strategist in a null alliance. HED was a final timer and numbers wise, the system had plenty of capacity. We had the force to have a good battle against the enemy, and that's what the game is supposedly designed for, fleet battles. Your idea is to run away and start a few initial timers, which would be completely ineffective, since to actually have an effect several more battles would need to take place after waiting out the timers. Honestly, it's one of the dumber ideas I've heard lately, and I've heard some doozies.
Ptraci wrote:Don't worry, appropriately named Space Monkey, just keep throwing the big ships at each other and hope that this time it will be different.
Something we didn't want is not the same as something the enemy wants/can't afford to lose. But ok, keep running after timers and playing whack a mole, just don't wonder why it's always the same.
EDIT: Either way I don't care, I don't have any skin in that game. I'm just fed up of reading about people complaining that the results are always the same, when they are doing exactly the same thing every time. This is barely intelligible, but I'm guessing it means that you think we should simply not fight for the system. Really strange that, since one of the biggest marketing points of EVE is the enormous fleet battles. If it's entirely OK by you, I'd actually like to keep those in, and not simply run away when an enemy fleet shows up.
And what we're complaining about is that CCP are sitting around chucking in half-arsed personal structures while fleet battles and SOV warfare have needed work for a long time. And that's not a CFC point of view, most people would tell you that the current way SOV works and the dire performance of fleet battles is a serious issue. Considering the game is sold as a game to have being battles it does not deliver. How many battles do we need to have crippled by node performance before they actually look at it? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2443
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Posted - 2014.01.21 16:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Best thing is when goons claim in 6vdt everything went fine and only in hed there where those problems, when in 6vdt we had the same problems, although we didn't jump directly on grid. But hey in 6vdt goons where first on grid and I guess its only a problem when it affects you Oh look, TEST are still around. Who knew.
6VDT stayed up and responsive enough all the way past the 4000 player mark. HED practically stopped responding at around 3000 players. I didn't see a single person from anywhere say beforehand "oh, too many players", because it was way under what we would expect a node to handle. Of course, hind sight being 20/20, it's easy to look back and point out where things didn't work right? I guess TEST have had a lot of practice, since you can pretty much look back and point at everything. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1704
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:This is barely intelligible, but I'm guessing it means that you think we should simply not fight for the system. Really strange that, since one of the biggest marketing points of EVE is the enormous fleet battles. If it's entirely OK by you, I'd actually like to keep those in, and not simply run away when an enemy fleet shows up.
And what we're complaining about is that CCP are sitting around chucking in half-arsed personal structures while fleet battles and SOV warfare have needed work for a long time. And that's not a CFC point of view, most people would tell you that the current way SOV works and the dire performance of fleet battles is a serious issue. Considering the game is sold as a game to have being battles it does not deliver. How many battles do we need to have crippled by node performance before they actually look at it?
No, apparently it was completely unintelligible. I understand you like battles. So do I, which is why I pew. What I don't understand is how you can call sitting and staring at TiDi for 4 hours a "battle". Tell me you love that part of EVE, and I will call you a liar. You would love to be able to DO something during that "battle", to maybe participate over and above watching an ultra-slow motion ballet where your actions may or may not have an effect if you stay around long enough and don't DC. But the status quo? No.
It's better than it was by all means, it takes a lot more people to stress the nodes than it used to, and CCP has made progress. But no matter how much you have today, tomorrow you are going to try to get more.
The very basic mechanics behind large scale EVE PvP have to be revisited and addressed. Short of CCP licensing CPU time from NUDT Tianhe-2 or the Cray Titan in Oak Ridge, I think we've proven that EVE players will continue to throw ships at each other UNTIL the node crashes. Either CCP will have to force combat to spread over several systems via an artificial mechanic or players will have to do this voluntarily, there's no choice. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2446
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:This is barely intelligible, but I'm guessing it means that you think we should simply not fight for the system. Really strange that, since one of the biggest marketing points of EVE is the enormous fleet battles. If it's entirely OK by you, I'd actually like to keep those in, and not simply run away when an enemy fleet shows up.
And what we're complaining about is that CCP are sitting around chucking in half-arsed personal structures while fleet battles and SOV warfare have needed work for a long time. And that's not a CFC point of view, most people would tell you that the current way SOV works and the dire performance of fleet battles is a serious issue. Considering the game is sold as a game to have being battles it does not deliver. How many battles do we need to have crippled by node performance before they actually look at it? No, apparently it was completely unintelligible. I understand you like battles. So do I, which is why I pew. What I don't understand is how you can call sitting and staring at TiDi for 4 hours a "battle". Tell me you love that part of EVE, and I will call you a liar. You would love to be able to DO something during that "battle", to maybe participate over and above watching an ultra-slow motion ballet where your actions may or may not have an effect if you stay around long enough and don't DC. But the status quo? No. It's better than it was by all means, it takes a lot more people to stress the nodes than it used to, and CCP has made progress. But no matter how much you have today, tomorrow you are going to try to get more. The very basic mechanics behind large scale EVE PvP have to be revisited and addressed. Short of CCP licensing CPU time from NUDT Tianhe-2 or the Cray Titan in Oak Ridge, I think we've proven that EVE players will continue to throw ships at each other UNTIL the node crashes. Either CCP will have to force combat to spread over several systems via an artificial mechanic or players will have to do this voluntarily, there's no choice. There is the third option, and that is to refactor their core code into a system that can be load balanced. Right now they have to cram the whole battle onto a single core. If they could distribute that load, they could easily handle more than they currently do, even with their existing hardware. Either way though, you're right, the battles they have now are getting too big for them to handle and they are just no fun.
Note, I want to keep large battles, I think that's important to EVE, they just need to find a better way to handle them. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1976
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Where's the "Group Ships" in the fleet window, or "group drones" on the drone window? All y'all are flying the exact same boring ship in these massive fleet fights. Might as well group them together like we do with guns and be done with it. |
Night Sword
Justified Chaos
11
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Posted - 2014.01.22 00:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
I wonder why any of these sov monkies even log on? I am also curious if they actually feel 'elite' being 1 in 1000 f1ing or assisting drones. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1978
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Posted - 2014.01.22 00:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Night Sword wrote:I wonder why any of these sov monkies even log on? I am also curious if they actually feel 'elite' being 1 in 1000 f1ing or assisting drones. I wonder why they complain about "drone assist" taking no player skill when all they do is press 'F1' anyways.
Drone assist commands allow these F1 monkeys to actually get up, go outside and get some exercise while waiting for a massive fleet fight to end. Taking it away would be cruelty to primates. The SPCA would have to intervene. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2240
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Posted - 2014.01.22 00:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I think it's pretty clear why you are not a leading strategist in a null alliance.
Correct, but I have been in the Allied High Command over in Battleground Europe. Some strategies are universal. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
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