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Ricard Defondel
Digital Alchemist The Fire Nation Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK so this isn't gonna be me enlightening everyone with my vast store of knowledge. I've been playing EVE for a couple of months now. I joined a corp and I'm generally enjoying myself despite getting podded on a regular basis. I have noticed however that the corp system whilst good for making friends and doing stuff together, is more than a bit clunky and doesn't seem to support cooperative play very well. With this topic featuring in the recent survey it got me thinking. So the question is this: What makes cooperative play in a corp most difficult? And how could it be fixed? Or what would support cooperative play? |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
37
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
without being someone who runs a corp i'm pretty sure the answer is that the roles management is so terrible that it's bordering on the offensive and needs to be ripped out and made again from scratch in a none horrible none insane way. Fixing that would solve pretty much every complaint i've ever heard about corps and the like |
Rendiff
Funk Soul Brothers High Rollers
47
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
One of the things that kills me is that you can't actually see what roles you have in a corp. You're also not notified when you're given roles. |
Ricard Defondel
Digital Alchemist The Fire Nation Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
So are there any ships or modules you 'd like to see, to promote cooperative play? I like the idea of a indy ship which can process ore or one which has it's own marketplace to facilitate corp opps.
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Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
64
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
While corp roles could use some work, they have next to nothing to do with this.
The real problem is that there is very little in highsec that works better when done cooperatively once you get some skill points. Some things you can scale up with more characters, but they generally work fine with a few, or one. The only two places where cooperative play pays off are Incursions, which REQUIRE it, but also require a large number of people and are not accessible for new players, and mining, where an Orca booster improves yield bonuses, but otherwise there is very little actual cooperation beyond perhaps having the Orca haul to station.
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Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2014.01.22 04:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Playing co-op on the more difficult and tedious missions is fun. I can hardly stand to solo them now. |
Ricard Defondel
Digital Alchemist The Fire Nation Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.01.22 10:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Beardsley wrote:Playing co-op on the more difficult and tedious missions is fun. I can hardly stand to solo them now.
Totally agree with you, I've been trying too get my standings up, but starting L1s on your own not only takes forever but bores me to tears. I've started doing L4s with other corp members now which is borderline do-able for me, but the challenge and company makes it much more fun than the tedious click-click of a Solo mission. |
Ricard Defondel
Digital Alchemist The Fire Nation Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.01.22 10:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Secret Squirrell wrote:While corp roles could use some work, they have next to nothing to do with this.
The real problem is that there is very little in highsec that works better when done cooperatively once you get some skill points. Some things you can scale up with more characters, but they generally work fine with a few, or one. The only two places where cooperative play pays off are Incursions, which REQUIRE it, but also require a large number of people and are not accessible for new players, and mining, where an Orca booster improves yield bonuses, but otherwise there is very little actual cooperation beyond perhaps having the Orca haul to station.
Yeah, I've noticed theres no options to combine skills to assist each other when making or reasearching anything, in corp. Would a mechanism that made it possible to form corp based teams (which gives efficiency and cost benefit), make you more likely play cooperatively? |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
140
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Posted - 2014.01.22 12:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
In low and Null, there are alot more things that require multiple people. As pointed out above, High sec really only has like... 2. And one of them is certainly soul destroying, while the other pays well to be soul destroying.
Go out to Low/Null, and you find things are vastly different. There are still Niche solo roles(or faction warfare farmers), but most things in Low/Null require the strength of the Pack, so to speak. The Law is a point of View |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
80
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Posted - 2014.01.22 18:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:without being someone who runs a corp i'm pretty sure the answer is that the roles management is so terrible that it's bordering on the offensive and needs to be ripped out and made again from scratch in a none horrible none insane way. Fixing that would solve pretty much every complaint i've ever heard about corps and the like
It's pretty terrible but it is managable. Its why a lot of corps have 'titles' so that they can have a couple of roles wrapped into each title that grant people access to stuff. So there are a couple of things that are workable.
In general though, navigating the corp options and menus is an excercise in pain.
The real problem with HS cooperative play is that there isn't anything (aside from mining) that is advantagous with a small / medium size group of people. with a fleet of between 2-5 people in various combat, salvage, or logistics skills none of them make more money together so there is no advantage except to socialize.
Incursions 'Should' be the answer but aren't. The payout per pilot / room is great. However, there is a pretty large monopoly on this by large set up networks (as there should be). But the scout sites are still not more profitable than running level 4 missions.
In short, as has been suggested before, specific effort needs to be made for some group PVE content. Especially that can help bridge the gap with new players and more experienced players.
Enjoy my wall of text. |
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
80
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Posted - 2014.01.22 19:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ricard Defondel wrote:Mr Beardsley wrote:Playing co-op on the more difficult and tedious missions is fun. I can hardly stand to solo them now. Totally agree with you, I've been trying too get my standings up, but starting L1s on your own not only takes forever but bores me to tears. I've started doing L4s with other corp members now which is borderline do-able for me, but the challenge and company makes it much more fun than the tedious click-click of a Solo mission.
I frequently take new players into L4 missions. I can solo them in a fairly efficient manner. I generally end up bringing in a T1 logistics ship to keep new players alive. They get a lot out of the experience (money, knowledge) - but for me I end up making about 1/5 to 1/10 of the profit I would have.
Even with another semi skilled pilot, if you are only putting out 1/2 the DPS I am then we are not progressing through these at a better payback than running solo. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1352
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote: In short, as has been suggested before, specific effort needs to be made for some group PVE content. Especially that can help bridge the gap with new players and more experienced players.
Take a daytrip to W-sapce. It was tailor made for this. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
82
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote: In short, as has been suggested before, specific effort needs to be made for some group PVE content. Especially that can help bridge the gap with new players and more experienced players.
Take a daytrip to W-sapce. It was tailor made for this.
I love W-space. But POS mechanics make this brutal.
Wspace requires a pretty in depth skill set. Most of my frustration comes from not having anything constructive to do with 1-2 month old players. For those guys being able to fly a battecruiser, cloak, and scan screws them.
For new players with a single account wormhole space sucks. I sometimes log in on saturday morning with my coffee and just want to putz around for a bit. WH life makes that god damn hard.
Plus you can make more running incursions than living in a wormhole. I would hardly call incursion fleets 'cooperative' game play. It's just like a chinese labor camp where your wearing a tux.
Edit: I realize you said 'daytrip' Yeah, you could do that but it doesn't pay as well as grinding missions (or pays way better). My point is that it's pretty unstable. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1354
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Batelle wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote: In short, as has been suggested before, specific effort needs to be made for some group PVE content. Especially that can help bridge the gap with new players and more experienced players.
Take a daytrip to W-sapce. It was tailor made for this. I love W-space. But POS mechanics make this brutal. Wspace requires a pretty in depth skill set. Most of my frustration comes from not having anything constructive to do with 1-2 month old players. For those guys being able to fly a battecruiser, cloak, and scan screws them. For new players with a single account wormhole space sucks. I sometimes log in on saturday morning with my coffee and just want to putz around for a bit. WH life makes that god damn hard. Plus you can make more running incursions than living in a wormhole. I would hardly call incursion fleets 'cooperative' game play. It's just like a chinese labor camp where your wearing a tux.
So you want something that takes minimal time organization, no dual boxing, works with VERY green pilots, happens in hisec, and makes income comparable to incursions.
Don't hold your breath.
Or you can find wormhole, send in battlecruisers/t1 cruisers, bring mobile depot and junk, and go to town. If you want to get fancy you can drop a small pos with some fuel, which fits in a single hauler with room to spare. Its a far cry from requiring a permanent pos or all the rookies to have alts and badass scanning skills. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
82
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yeah, that does make me sound like an entitled ***.
I'm for the addition of some new cooperative elements even if it is apparent that I have no idea how to articulate the need. |
Ricard Defondel
Digital Alchemist The Fire Nation Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Ricard Defondel wrote:Mr Beardsley wrote:Playing co-op on the more difficult and tedious missions is fun. I can hardly stand to solo them now. Totally agree with you, I've been trying too get my standings up, but starting L1s on your own not only takes forever but bores me to tears. I've started doing L4s with other corp members now which is borderline do-able for me, but the challenge and company makes it much more fun than the tedious click-click of a Solo mission. I frequently take new players into L4 missions. I can solo them in a fairly efficient manner. I generally end up bringing in a T1 logistics ship to keep new players alive. They get a lot out of the experience (money, knowledge) - but for me I end up making about 1/5 to 1/10 of the profit I would have. Even with another semi skilled pilot, if you are only putting out 1/2 the DPS I am then we are not progressing through these at a better payback than running solo.
Yeah I totally get that. From my side I'd quite happily come to some arrangement where my cut was less as the PVE on L4s is more enjoyable and beneficial for me. My ships are cheaper, and it has helped me with basic fleet tactics. I think it comes down to just havng a reasonable agreement beforehand. |
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