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K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? |
Jita Alt666
488
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
SO instead of building Hummers, Hummer should start building Toyota Camrys? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:SO instead of building Hummers, Hummer should start building Toyota Camrys? As long as they continued to build Hummers. Yes. Otherwise No. What's your point? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1006
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard?
Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan!
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
I play Wow and Eve...
WoW has such a huge sub base because it is "casual" friendly. It has PVP servers where you are always able to be ganked (pretty much) and pve servers where PVP is a choice.
There's no great requirement for hours on end of time to be put into it, you can litteraly log in, do 15 minutes, acheive something towards your goal and log out, which is ideal for the middle aged masses with family/job etc , who coincidently have the most available spare cash to spend on these types of pastimes.
Eve on the other hand requires you to invest time into anything you do (other than logging in to kick of a skill training) with no real way to pull out at the drop of a hat without consequences to your in-game experience.
TBH, even though Eve is nothing like wow, the target market is something CCP is probably looking at. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
137
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
I believe CCP should develop Eve to appeal more to instant gratification, casual player audiences while retaining the raw brutal environments that it has. Not everyone wants to dabble with death on a daily basis. Nor do many people have the time that some aspects of Eve require.
In no way could this possibly detract from null or w-space or losec. If done right, it wouldn't even diminish current lulz mechanics people use in hisec for the lulz. Instant action arenas where one pays isk, plex, aur, cash, whatever to battle it out in any ship they want with no penalty, no gain other than experience. The biggest obstacle preventing people from going to dangerous areas of space, imo, is the fear/grind factor: They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve.
I don't believe making hisec safer isn't a bad thing either. There should always be a means to grief/gank people but, certainly shouldn't be as easy as it is. Maybe make the penalties for such behavior more severe while relaxing concords abilities so that the offender might more often be "chased" off rather than blown up. Who knows....could be fun being "chased" by concord from system to system until you're out of the system/region/constellation. *shrugs*. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
719
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I had apple pancakes for breakfast. They were p good. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes. Remove CONCORD. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall
Well i can tell you mcdonalds has way more consumers for hamburguers than any other place in the world. Do they produce the better Hamburguers?
No they don't
WoW just brought the MMO genre to the frontface with a rather attractive and easy game that's why it is so famous and so easy to hook ppl around, but the best MMO?
No it's not.
The common idea is
Father of all MMO = Ultima creator of serious Raiding = Everquest Origin of true realm vs realm PvP = DaoC Father of everyone can play and seems important = WoW
Now i don't want to point where is EVE as a MMO Flagship, but after 10 years this game has way many options to choice and live (scam/pvp/carebear/politics) than any other MMO so far. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ann133566 wrote:Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? That is in fact my question.
I'm getting this vibe that the older players are under the impression that people want ALL of Eve made safe. This is absurd and must be ridiculed for what it is.
But there is no reason (imho) why areas of Eve, or more specifically, some game play in Eve can't be made "safer" to facilitate a higher subscriber base without affecting the game in any particularly bad way.
I'm sort of stuck on this. I've yet to see a convincing argument why gameplay such as suicide ganking, if nerfed, would have such a negative impact on the game.
Is it all just forum rage from older players with no understanding of what other players might want? |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan! Did I actually say that? You are the epitome of my entire point.
I'm curious about this common phrase "existing playerbase" though. So you're saying that if suicide ganking (for example) were curtailed, that the entire Eve playerbase would simply up and leave? You truly think that? |
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would like to see concord go away, to be replaced by faction navies. This would be coupled with stiffer security status penalties, scaled by the security rating of the system the infraction takes place in.
I would remove positive security status entirely. Want to go into a 1.0 system without the navy chasing you? Your status better be 0. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
140
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
I hear you. But again, I'm not saying or even suggesting a complete reversal of what makes Eve "good". This is a point being used far too often to smoke up the topic. You can take 10% of space for safe territory and leave 90% available "as-is".
You need to consider that there must be a reason why so many are in high-sec. It cannot be simply because they get to suicide gank. They can get "free kills" in lowsec and 0.0 easily enough without resorting to loss of sec status etc. So why are so many there?
And no-one IS asking for Eve to change entirely. But even the thought of making an area "safe" for some is like a blow to the face. Which is interesting because this is perhaps what makes Eve "good" but can it be made "better" by having "proving grounds" or "training grounds" whatever the heck we might call them.
Surely higher subscriber base makes for more "fresh meat" at some point? |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
598
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve.
EVE already has this - the test server. |
Antipokeman
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm kind of lost in the whole high sec, low sec, null sec categories. Null sec is pretty much anything goes. High and low sec seem almost even with the chance of getting raped by a random gank. I'm not saying everything or anything should be 100% safe, but there should be a distinguishable difference between high and low sec.
Yes, I know you can get concorded in high sec, but it's almost not even a deterrent. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
I hazard that you never made end game content in Wow? Organising raids, leading them, organising guilds to be able to raid and the player interaction involved in that (not to mention politics) is just as intensive as in Eve, although at a smaller scale (10's to 100's not 1000's)
There's not that much difference, the same type of player who will run an alliance or FC a fleet in Eve, will most likely run a successful guild or RL succesful raids in WoW.
It's the players who aren't interested in these areas that differ the most, in WoW they do areana's and PVP and trash talk in trade. In Eve they suicide gank and trash talk in local....... oh wait not that different |
|
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve. EVE already has this - the test server. Funny post.
Been on it lately. Seen the rules about PvP? Interacted with the economy? Skills are much higher on Singularity aloowing for "testing"?
Would have expected more from such a bright boy. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
142
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
if ganking were severely curtailed (or even removed) i would respond with
"and not one **** was given that day".
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Commander TGK wrote:This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet. I think you'll find OP has got it. The problem is that you haven't. Come back with something relevant and half intelligent. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. If CCP wanted to do this, then - forum meme-bots notwithstanding - they would have taken greater steps to 'dumb down' or make EvE more mass-marketable over the years. Their recent behaviour (fixing/changing so much after this summer's debacle) suggests that they definitely want to increase their playerbase (because they would have to be autistic not to) but their business practices since launch would indicate that they only want to do this 'organically', not by trying to change fundamental aspects of the game to appeal to the masses (ie, spawning in your ship with fittings after you are killed).
To the OP's OP - I'm not sure it would necessarily hurt the game by making high-sec EVEN safer but I still fail to see what you think it would gain, beyond making it more appealing to people who - once they venture outside highsec - won't truly like what they find at it's core anyway? |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan!
QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus??? |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
142
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Commander TGK wrote:This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet.
this entire thread is about OP not getting it, specifically op wanting it to make sense.
but it is senseless. it's just "one true way"ism run rampant. "i want to force you to play eve the way i want you too! if you don't like this 'GO PLAY WOW!!!'" is essentially what a lot of it boils down to.
eve is a large universe, and it can accommodate more than one type of player. don't like that? want to suggest that they "go play wow"? how about i suggest you give me all your stuff and go find cry in a corner that someone, somewhere, might be safe from you.
it's a stupid subject, people need to stop acting like it's the end of the farking world that someone, somewhere might be doing something in Eve that they don't like. MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
720
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Gealla wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. If CCP wanted to do this, then - forum meme-bots notwithstanding - they would have taken greater steps to 'dumb down' or make EvE more mass-marketable over the years. Their recent behaviour (fixing/changing so much after this summer's debacle) suggests that they definitely want to increase their playerbase (because they would have to be autistic not to) but their business practices since launch would indicate that they only want to do this 'organically', not by trying to change fundamental aspects of the game to appeal to the masses (ie, spawning in your ship with fittings after you are killed). To the OP's OP - I'm not sure it would necessarily hurt the game by making high-sec EVEN safer but I still fail to see what you think it would gain, beyond making it more appealing to people who - once they venture outside highsec - won't truly like what they find at it's core anyway?
I Agree, but i think it will be a gradual process...... they want to minimize the alienation of existing players as much as possible, so we'll see lots of micro fixes and ninja alterations over tghe next 6 months to a year I think.
|
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right?
Well I guess the next logical question would be "Why are they there, instead of null or low?" |
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