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K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? |
Jita Alt666
488
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
SO instead of building Hummers, Hummer should start building Toyota Camrys? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:SO instead of building Hummers, Hummer should start building Toyota Camrys? As long as they continued to build Hummers. Yes. Otherwise No. What's your point? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1006
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard?
Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan!
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
I play Wow and Eve...
WoW has such a huge sub base because it is "casual" friendly. It has PVP servers where you are always able to be ganked (pretty much) and pve servers where PVP is a choice.
There's no great requirement for hours on end of time to be put into it, you can litteraly log in, do 15 minutes, acheive something towards your goal and log out, which is ideal for the middle aged masses with family/job etc , who coincidently have the most available spare cash to spend on these types of pastimes.
Eve on the other hand requires you to invest time into anything you do (other than logging in to kick of a skill training) with no real way to pull out at the drop of a hat without consequences to your in-game experience.
TBH, even though Eve is nothing like wow, the target market is something CCP is probably looking at. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
137
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
I believe CCP should develop Eve to appeal more to instant gratification, casual player audiences while retaining the raw brutal environments that it has. Not everyone wants to dabble with death on a daily basis. Nor do many people have the time that some aspects of Eve require.
In no way could this possibly detract from null or w-space or losec. If done right, it wouldn't even diminish current lulz mechanics people use in hisec for the lulz. Instant action arenas where one pays isk, plex, aur, cash, whatever to battle it out in any ship they want with no penalty, no gain other than experience. The biggest obstacle preventing people from going to dangerous areas of space, imo, is the fear/grind factor: They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve.
I don't believe making hisec safer isn't a bad thing either. There should always be a means to grief/gank people but, certainly shouldn't be as easy as it is. Maybe make the penalties for such behavior more severe while relaxing concords abilities so that the offender might more often be "chased" off rather than blown up. Who knows....could be fun being "chased" by concord from system to system until you're out of the system/region/constellation. *shrugs*. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
719
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I had apple pancakes for breakfast. They were p good. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes. Remove CONCORD. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall
Well i can tell you mcdonalds has way more consumers for hamburguers than any other place in the world. Do they produce the better Hamburguers?
No they don't
WoW just brought the MMO genre to the frontface with a rather attractive and easy game that's why it is so famous and so easy to hook ppl around, but the best MMO?
No it's not.
The common idea is
Father of all MMO = Ultima creator of serious Raiding = Everquest Origin of true realm vs realm PvP = DaoC Father of everyone can play and seems important = WoW
Now i don't want to point where is EVE as a MMO Flagship, but after 10 years this game has way many options to choice and live (scam/pvp/carebear/politics) than any other MMO so far. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ann133566 wrote:Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? That is in fact my question.
I'm getting this vibe that the older players are under the impression that people want ALL of Eve made safe. This is absurd and must be ridiculed for what it is.
But there is no reason (imho) why areas of Eve, or more specifically, some game play in Eve can't be made "safer" to facilitate a higher subscriber base without affecting the game in any particularly bad way.
I'm sort of stuck on this. I've yet to see a convincing argument why gameplay such as suicide ganking, if nerfed, would have such a negative impact on the game.
Is it all just forum rage from older players with no understanding of what other players might want? |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan! Did I actually say that? You are the epitome of my entire point.
I'm curious about this common phrase "existing playerbase" though. So you're saying that if suicide ganking (for example) were curtailed, that the entire Eve playerbase would simply up and leave? You truly think that? |
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would like to see concord go away, to be replaced by faction navies. This would be coupled with stiffer security status penalties, scaled by the security rating of the system the infraction takes place in.
I would remove positive security status entirely. Want to go into a 1.0 system without the navy chasing you? Your status better be 0. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
140
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
I hear you. But again, I'm not saying or even suggesting a complete reversal of what makes Eve "good". This is a point being used far too often to smoke up the topic. You can take 10% of space for safe territory and leave 90% available "as-is".
You need to consider that there must be a reason why so many are in high-sec. It cannot be simply because they get to suicide gank. They can get "free kills" in lowsec and 0.0 easily enough without resorting to loss of sec status etc. So why are so many there?
And no-one IS asking for Eve to change entirely. But even the thought of making an area "safe" for some is like a blow to the face. Which is interesting because this is perhaps what makes Eve "good" but can it be made "better" by having "proving grounds" or "training grounds" whatever the heck we might call them.
Surely higher subscriber base makes for more "fresh meat" at some point? |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
598
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve.
EVE already has this - the test server. |
Antipokeman
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm kind of lost in the whole high sec, low sec, null sec categories. Null sec is pretty much anything goes. High and low sec seem almost even with the chance of getting raped by a random gank. I'm not saying everything or anything should be 100% safe, but there should be a distinguishable difference between high and low sec.
Yes, I know you can get concorded in high sec, but it's almost not even a deterrent. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
I hazard that you never made end game content in Wow? Organising raids, leading them, organising guilds to be able to raid and the player interaction involved in that (not to mention politics) is just as intensive as in Eve, although at a smaller scale (10's to 100's not 1000's)
There's not that much difference, the same type of player who will run an alliance or FC a fleet in Eve, will most likely run a successful guild or RL succesful raids in WoW.
It's the players who aren't interested in these areas that differ the most, in WoW they do areana's and PVP and trash talk in trade. In Eve they suicide gank and trash talk in local....... oh wait not that different |
|
Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve. EVE already has this - the test server. Funny post.
Been on it lately. Seen the rules about PvP? Interacted with the economy? Skills are much higher on Singularity aloowing for "testing"?
Would have expected more from such a bright boy. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
142
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
if ganking were severely curtailed (or even removed) i would respond with
"and not one **** was given that day".
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Commander TGK wrote:This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet. I think you'll find OP has got it. The problem is that you haven't. Come back with something relevant and half intelligent. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. If CCP wanted to do this, then - forum meme-bots notwithstanding - they would have taken greater steps to 'dumb down' or make EvE more mass-marketable over the years. Their recent behaviour (fixing/changing so much after this summer's debacle) suggests that they definitely want to increase their playerbase (because they would have to be autistic not to) but their business practices since launch would indicate that they only want to do this 'organically', not by trying to change fundamental aspects of the game to appeal to the masses (ie, spawning in your ship with fittings after you are killed).
To the OP's OP - I'm not sure it would necessarily hurt the game by making high-sec EVEN safer but I still fail to see what you think it would gain, beyond making it more appealing to people who - once they venture outside highsec - won't truly like what they find at it's core anyway? |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan!
QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus??? |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
142
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Commander TGK wrote:This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet.
this entire thread is about OP not getting it, specifically op wanting it to make sense.
but it is senseless. it's just "one true way"ism run rampant. "i want to force you to play eve the way i want you too! if you don't like this 'GO PLAY WOW!!!'" is essentially what a lot of it boils down to.
eve is a large universe, and it can accommodate more than one type of player. don't like that? want to suggest that they "go play wow"? how about i suggest you give me all your stuff and go find cry in a corner that someone, somewhere, might be safe from you.
it's a stupid subject, people need to stop acting like it's the end of the farking world that someone, somewhere might be doing something in Eve that they don't like. MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
720
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Gealla wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:You could make the same argument that the producers of "Always Sunny In Philadelphia" should take notes from the producers of "Everyone Loves Raymond" or that the producers of "Breaking Bad" should make it more like Law & Order.
Having more numbers/subscribers doesn't make something better, it just means there is a low-common denominator that appeals to a wider base.
Yes, I would love EvE to have a wider acceptance (many 'average people' know what WoW is, fewer know what EvE is) but if they had to change the game to become more like WoW (and therefore, less like EvE), would it be worth it?
Depends on your perspective. From an existing Eve players POV - No probably not From a casual Newbie POV - Yes Probably From CCP's POV as a business - YES Definitely, no-one likes laying off staff and killing projects, more subs stop this from happening. If CCP wanted to do this, then - forum meme-bots notwithstanding - they would have taken greater steps to 'dumb down' or make EvE more mass-marketable over the years. Their recent behaviour (fixing/changing so much after this summer's debacle) suggests that they definitely want to increase their playerbase (because they would have to be autistic not to) but their business practices since launch would indicate that they only want to do this 'organically', not by trying to change fundamental aspects of the game to appeal to the masses (ie, spawning in your ship with fittings after you are killed). To the OP's OP - I'm not sure it would necessarily hurt the game by making high-sec EVEN safer but I still fail to see what you think it would gain, beyond making it more appealing to people who - once they venture outside highsec - won't truly like what they find at it's core anyway?
I Agree, but i think it will be a gradual process...... they want to minimize the alienation of existing players as much as possible, so we'll see lots of micro fixes and ninja alterations over tghe next 6 months to a year I think.
|
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right?
Well I guess the next logical question would be "Why are they there, instead of null or low?" |
|
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right? Well I guess the next logical question would be "Why are they there, instead of null or low?"
Because IT'S SAFER.
Sorry for shouting. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:JitaJane wrote: QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
And I'm sure that none of them are alts of low or nullsec players, right? Well I guess the next logical question would be "Why are they there, instead of null or low?"
Because that's where the money is..... Anything decent from 0.0 needs to be sold in highsec (generally speaking) to get max profit from it, because all those wealthy carebears would rather pay for it than take the risk of getting it themselves...
I'm happy with that attitude :) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1295
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
K Suri wrote:But there is no reason (imho) why areas of Eve, or more specifically, some game play in Eve can't be made "safer" to facilitate a higher subscriber base without affecting the game in any particularly bad way. I had to strike out the GǣimhoGǥ bit just to make the answer fit better, and you'll have to excuse thatGǪ
There is a perfectly good reason why that can't happen: because it completely breaks the balance between those areas and everywhere else in terms of the ability to disrupt and interdict various money-making schemes. Yes, those areas will house people whose impact is next to none because they play so casually that they don't really contribute anything, but they will also immediately be co-opted by the larger entities in the game as a way to keep large portions of their money-making chains safe from their enemies. This affects the game in a particularly bad way.
While I can understand that you might not like the threat of being lol-ganked, the ability to suicide gank these kinds of off-books entities and everyone in them is required to make (player)factional warfare work. The alternative is to massively buff the aggressor side of wardecs (as in: you are not allowed to jump corps, shed wardecs, or in any way avoid the dec once it hits)GǪ and as far as griefing potential goes, that's much worse than the occasional lolgank. The way the game is structured, there must be ways to nuke competitors, or the industrial/economical side of warfare collapses.
Alternatively, such areas need to be very severely restricted in terms of what can be done there GÇö no industry, no trading, no resource gathering, even basic money-making things like mission-running would probably need to be banned from those areas GÇö or they need to be completely sealed off, resource-wise, from the rest of the universe (and that would make them rather boring in other ways). GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1008
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
K Suri wrote:
I'm getting this vibe that the older players are under the impression that people want ALL of Eve made safe. This is absurd and must be ridiculed for what it is.
I get the impression you haven't realised that ALL of EVE is interconnected, and what happens here can have an effect there.
Making hi-sec into a perfectly safe PvE wonderland is fine, right up until you realise that this means that you're granting an untouchable base to operate from.
So unless you plan to also nerf the economic base of hi-sec into the ground to compensate, you're left with a hideously unbalanced game, much as if there were a PvP ship with 99.99% resists for people who don't like losing ships.
The other problem with making hi-sec a PvE wonderland is that EVE's PvE is simply horrible. Even the "good" PvE (Incursions, Sleepers) is still terribad compared with PvE MMOs. In fact EVE's PvE compares pretty poorly to the games I used to play on my old Amiga in the late 80s. CCP would have to pretty much redesign EVE from scratch to compete as a PvE MMO, and they're in no position to do that even if they thought it was a good idea (they have publically said they aren't competing with WoW more than once).
Everything that's interesting, exciting and worthwhile about EVE comes from the freedom it gives you to interact with other players. The ongoing issue is that EVE is one of the very few games available these days which actually let you genuinely lose, and the culture shock of encountering a game that doesn't treat you as a special snowflake, that doesn't gaurantee you hero status, that doesn't protect you from your bad decisions, that doesn't stop you permanently losing money, assets, space, even skillpoints, if you screw up badly enough is so severe to many people encountering it for the first time that they assume that it's a mistake, a design flaw, a problem to be solved.
It isn't. It's the only thing that makes EVE worth logging in to.
What you are looking for is here: http://www.egosoft.com/games/x3/info_en.php]here Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote: There is a perfectly good reason why that can't happen: because it completely breaks the balance between those areas and everywhere else in terms of the ability to disrupt and interdict various money-making schemes. Yes, those areas will house people whose impact is next to none because they play so casually that they don't really contribute anything, but they will also immediately be co-opted by the larger entities in the game as a way to keep large portions of their money-making chains safe from their enemies. This affects the game in a particularly bad way.
Although with the ability to buy Plex with real cash and sell it to PVP'ers for ISK there is always an alternative supply if those money making scheme's are interupted, one that directly benefits CCP, so inreality this area is already broken by a RL cash for isk faucet. Surely taking it that extra step won't imbalance it that much more? It would just create a minor shift in where high sec isk is coming from. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
Well actually 100% of the wow ragers/haters never played WOW in dedicated PVP servers where you're ganked everywhere everytime unless you're in groups, you can't solo play that much or is really difficult an you need a very high set dedicated skills (toon) and ability to play with more than just a few buttons.
Penaltys are different, gameplay is different, the whole game is completely different and after so many years playing wow one thing I can safely say with no complex is that Eve community has a whole is way more childish, grieffing, unconditional, rude adn selfish than I ever met in Wow.
But there are a lot of great people playing the game, and just for those this comunity worths the shot. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1008
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan! QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus???
My personal experience is that every 0.0 player has a bare minimum of 2 characters in hi-sec.
So - that player base.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Commander TGK wrote:This thread needs more flames, OP is not getting it yet. this entire thread is about OP not getting it, specifically op wanting it to make sense. but it is senseless. it's just "one true way"ism run rampant. "i want to force you to play eve the way i want you too! if you don't like this 'GO PLAY WOW!!!'" is essentially what a lot of it boils down to. eve is a large universe, and it can accommodate more than one type of player. don't like that? want to suggest that they "go play wow"? how about i suggest you give me all your stuff and go find cry in a corner that someone, somewhere, might be safe from you. it's a stupid subject, people need to stop acting like it's the end of the farking world that someone, somewhere might be doing something in Eve that they don't like. And you're response simply proves my point.
I see your style of play being challenged and your responses are not disimiliar to the very people who are asking for same. |
Eebi
CONCORD Operations Central Directorate of Intelligence
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
There are so many companies that want to make a game that would attract millions of players, by making it look like WoW. Who said CCP can make EVE a game that would attract millions of subscribers like it does WoW in the first place.
This would simply be a big gamble.
I imagine that anyone who tried and didn't like EVE Online, would go back to games similar to WoW.
Lots of the players EVE has today are the ones that play it for the unique game it is. You take away that uniqueness and lots of player will leave this game.
I don't even think CCP can afford to risk that.
Currently CCP is focusing on existing gameplay (FiS) and i like that.
When WiS is released, there will probably not be much things to do, but i imagine we would eventually be able to beat people up and rob them of the things they didn't want anyways.
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
81
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter.
On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes.
I'm sorry what was your point again? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1295
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Although with the ability to buy Plex with real cash and sell it to PVP'ers for ISK there is always an alternative supply if those money making scheme's are interupted, one that directly benefits CCP, so inreality this area is already broken by a RL cash for isk faucet. Surely taking it that extra step won't imbalance it that much more? It would just create a minor shift in where high sec isk is coming from. Tbh, Malc explained it better than I did above. It's not just about ISK GÇö it's about completely skewing the interconnected nature of the EVE universe and creating untouchable bases from which you can affect all of EVE.
GǪon and for the record, PLEX is not an ISK faucet. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hi sec needs to be more hostile. More ships to need to be blown up, its good for business! |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 23:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote:While I can understand that you might not like the threat of being lol-ganked, the ability to suicide gank these kinds of off-books entities and everyone in them is required to make (player)factional warfare work. The alternative is to massively buff the aggressor side of wardecs (as in: you are not allowed to jump corps, shed wardecs, or in any way avoid the dec once it hits)GǪ and as far as griefing potential goes, that's much worse than the occasional lolgank. The way the game is structured, there must be ways to nuke competitors, or the industrial/economical side of warfare collapses.
And this is an great point and has been raised often.
Suicide ganking is neccessary because there is no "easy" way to kill without getting taken through a ringer. I think The Apostle once said that removal of corp jumping during a war-dec and automatic expulsion from NPC corps would go a long way to making it tougher AND fairer at the same time.
This could cause griefer corps to lock down smaller corps for fun but the "decshield" might also help make pointless "wars" quite pointless. A war declared is going to need to be done with dedication and a reason.
Insofar as null corps using alt corps for logistics, good intel could make this very, very dangerous for 0.0 corps to do with this kind of proposal.
So some things, i.e. changes making it harder and fairer and still provide for the Eve genre - are by and large quite possible. My main point in my OP is as much about this as the vehement defiance of ANY change - even if it might be good for the game. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter. On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes. I'm sorry what was your point again? If the owner of said Italian restaurant were to also throw in a bottle of '93 Chablis with your meal, it might also attract lovers of '93 Chablis to the restaurant and the owner can drive an Aston Martin instead. |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter. On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes. I'm sorry what was your point again?
And if suddenly 50 people a day stop turning up, will the prices increase or will it close down? Would 50 people a day affect McDonalds?
I also like food, but I understand some business's need to evolve to stay afloat |
Gealla
Capital Storm. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪon and for the record, PLEX is not an ISK faucet.
You are quite correct , i should have said the flow, rather than faucet |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andski wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve. EVE already has this - the test server.
Yeah people keep referring to the test server. Roughly translated, however, it's like telling someone to go play another game. And that's exactly what a lot of people do....go play something else entirely.
I've never been on the test server. I have no desire to go to the test server. Telling people to do this is equivalent to CCP introducing a new feature and telling you it's only on the test server and will only ever be there. The tears would be ginormous.
Or would you have us believe that if CCP stopped development of Tranquility and only released new content on Sisi, you'd be happy with this? Somehow I think not. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
http://db.tt/eVJ6gpfj
That's why. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Yeah people keep referring to the test server. Roughly translated, however, it's like telling someone to go play another game. And that's exactly what a lot of people do....go play something else entirely.
I've never been on the test server. I have no desire to go to the test server. Telling people to do this is equivalent to CCP introducing a new feature and telling you it's only on the test server and will only ever be there. The tears would be ginormous.
Or would you have us believe that if CCP stopped development of Tranquility and only released new content on Sisi, you'd be happy with this? Somehow I think not. Wow did you miss the point of Andski's post. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
164
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am probably one of the only people who wish EVE has a 100% safe place for NEW players. A sort of 1 way gate, once you leave you leave, you have to click confirm 5 times etc, but once out of this garden of eden you're out. Allow perhaps ISD volunteers to have characters inside this zone which can't leave and work with the new players.
WHY? We didn't get this treatment!
Exactly because we didn't. Why make is sofaking hard for new players, get them going, get them learning, then turn them loose to the wolves. It will help retention, period.
Retention is good, period. Imagine playing Donkey Kong where every barrel looks like it hits you. Would you rather I fix the barrels or Kong's shadow?
Welcome to Eve Online where lasers are dumber than barrels! |
|
Shian Yang
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
K Suri wrote:If the owner of said Italian restaurant were to also throw in a bottle of '93 Chablis with your meal, it might also attract lovers of '93 Chablis to the restaurant and the owner can drive an Aston Martin instead.
Greetings capsuleer,
You posed an interesting question. I have had to research large volumes of old-earth entertainment to understand some of what you are talking about. The way I understand this there was a time when people entertained themselves by using a physical interface to a virtual world. This was approximately 21350 years ago, around the year 2000 AD. Remember, the Yoiul Conference of 23236 AD established the use of YC.
No matter, I found some fragmented records around this. There appears to be two schools of thought on how this type of entertainment was presented.
One group, ones that seem remarkably similar to the capsuleers of New Eden, believed in what is loosely termed a sandbox environment. They had a lot of freedom to do what they will and as such those forms of entertainment attracted a certain type of person.
The other group were seeking to engage in activities that relate - well. Ludicrous as this sound they had locations termed as theme parks. This is where people would congregate for fixed entertainment using velocity, motion and copious quantities of salty and sugary foods to induce vomiting. Some of these games followed a similar model to theme parks. This attracted a different type of person.
It was a common belief at the time that the two forms could not mix in a logical fashion as they conceptually had different target audiences.
Thus it amuses me to read your response above. From what I can see you are arguing for a break from the core principle of one form in favour of the other. In that context, your analogy above is flawed. I believe you should have written it as:
Quote:If the owner of said Italian restaurant were to also throw in a bottle of Quaffe Lite with your meal, it might also attract lovers of Quaffe Lite to the restaurant.
Then your analogy would not be harmonic with the core concepts and would thus create the logical jar that it should. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
You know what?
No MMO has tried to beat WOW at its own game and won.
/Thread, set, match |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Strangely, I'm curious why 0.0 members are contributing to this thread? It's not that you can't or shouldn't, it's why?
Correct me if I am wrong, after much complaint, bitching and whining, 0.0 alliances have just become the proud parents of substantial nerfs that makes 0.0 safer.
Odd they find it neccessary to defend the norm in highsec.
|
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services
29
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Most of what I want to say has already been said.
I'll just put this here - I think Eve is way too safe. Everywhere. Wormholes are about as dangerous as it gets and as I develop experience in prowling the unknown reaches, even wormholes aren't too bad if you're paying attention (and, especially, if you're not solo).
But then I'm an old player with money, and the means to make more money, and a huge base of skills that let me do just about anything I please. So that's def. my bias - I'm old, rich, and yeah, a bit cynical.
I signed up to this game because ...well, truth be told, I watched a trailer where two ships were duking it out. And I was all, 'Woooooooo! **** yeah!" |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Strangely, I'm curious why 0.0 members are contributing to this thread? It's not that you can't or shouldn't, it's why?
Correct me if I am wrong, after much complaint, bitching and whining, 0.0 alliances have just become the proud parents of substantial nerfs that makes 0.0 safer.
Odd they find it neccessary to defend the norm in highsec.
Oh ****, I didn't see it was you. Sorry for feeding. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Komen wrote:I signed up to this game because ...well, truth be told, I watched a trailer where two ships were duking it out. And I was all, 'Woooooooo! **** yeah!" Which is possible in so many ways.
Suicide ganking would be more akin to watching a dog being kicked to death if it were a trailer.
|
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
307
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
K Suri wrote:
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen.
The average age that plays WoW is 13years old.
The average age that plays EVE is 35years old +.
WoW is a game for the uneducated masses (The Mist of Pandoria - Kung-fu Panda anyone?)
EVE is a niche game (Sci-Fi meets Slasher films).
'Nuff said.
/thread Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Komen wrote:I signed up to this game because ...well, truth be told, I watched a trailer where two ships were duking it out. And I was all, 'Woooooooo! **** yeah!" Which is possible in so many ways. Suicide ganking would be more akin to watching a dog being kicked to death if it were a trailer. The only difference being that kicking a dog to death is disgusting but ganking miners is hilarious.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Cunane Jeran
40
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
As soon as EvE gets over its "solo" hurdle for newer players then it'd be a better game for it, and ALOT more likely to retain newer players. Generally as it stands, you'll be thrown into a newbie corp with a large group of people who are full of anti grouping venom, yeah your questions will be answered, but generally you'll get a completely skewed idea of the game.
Incursions have helped, and there is the occasional vet in the newbie corps who'll take newbies into level 4 missions. Generally though we should be pushing for more stuff like mining ops, an epic arc that involves grouping that kind of thing, something that'll really get an inclusive feeling going, while retaining the option of solo for those who are less sociable (but maybe make it not as rewarding)
Yes there will always be gankers and grief, but when in a group, that loss becomes a lot easier to bare, as you have that common ground. |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Im just feeding the troll that the OP is, but ill form a reply anyway.
WOW is full of 10 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
EvE is an entirely different banana, if it was just like wow, and if it marketed, just like wow, and was full of even more whiny players like WoW, well then why would any one buy eve instead of wow?
Its to late to be like wow, you have to be something their not, cater to a deferent age group, maybe even a different community.
You keep saying eve needs to evolve; yet your suggesting it be dumbed down even further. Now if you where to evolve into dolphin, you might just become a sexier, maybe even smarter individual, but that doesnGÇÖt mean you could ever truly be as awesome as one.
|
|
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
48
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel.
you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni? |
Kent Reeves
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:08:00 -
[63] - Quote
If I wanted to play WOW I would play WOW.
I want to play EVE so I play EVE. |
Psychophantic
101
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gazmin VanBurin wrote: WOW is full of 10 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
EvE is an entirely different banana
ORLY |
Cailais
Rekall Incorporated
106
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
The tale that EVE is 'dangerous' is one of the biggest myths going. It's not.
Provided you use the right ship, for the right environment you'll be pretty safe overall. Those that leave themselves open to attack (and they're actually quite a small number) do get hit and hit hard but I think the vast majority of players recognise what is high risk (for them) and act accordingly.
With that small sliver of residual risk EVE becomes a unique gaming experience, not for everyone, not necessarily for those who just want a casual 'no dramas' easy ride but for those who appreciate something more...refined...it has no equal.
C. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
734
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni? While those organizations serve a purpose there is still nothing as fun as seeing a one-day-old newbie in a rifter tackle his first battleship while trolling evil dudes in local.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:35:00 -
[67] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni?
I read the Eve-Uni wiki. The ENTIRE THING. It's a good information resource.
BUT. I'll be damned if I have to follow fascist laws about what I'm allowed to do or not because some troll has wardecced the corp.
I have no idea who Agony Unleashed is, but I haven't seen a single recruitment ad anywhere. Just read their wiki: ''Well, our ideal candidate would have at least 10 million SP in frigates''. See, that's where it fails. You need to grab the noobs before they spend 5 months alone in highsec and get bored.
Edit: I can also see why it's actually a bad idea to recruit anybody from the public channels. |
Race Drones
13th Squadron E C L I P S E
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
K Suri wrote: Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve.
Tetris has more, a lot more players... and money. |
Jerek Mothas
Eleutherian Guard
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:I believe CCP should develop Eve to appeal more to instant gratification, casual player audiences while retaining the raw brutal environments that it has. Not everyone wants to dabble with death on a daily basis. Nor do many people have the time that some aspects of Eve require.
In no way could this possibly detract from null or w-space or losec. If done right, it wouldn't even diminish current lulz mechanics people use in hisec for the lulz. Instant action arenas where one pays isk, plex, aur, cash, whatever to battle it out in any ship they want with no penalty, no gain other than experience. The biggest obstacle preventing people from going to dangerous areas of space, imo, is the fear/grind factor: They're scared to lose their hard earn ships/equipment because they had to grind their ass off to get it. Instant action arenas would be a training ground of sorts that allow people to learn what their hardware can/can't do. It would actually breed confidence enriching the pvp experience throughout eve.
I don't believe making hisec safer isn't a bad thing either. There should always be a means to grief/gank people but, certainly shouldn't be as easy as it is. Maybe make the penalties for such behavior more severe while relaxing concords abilities so that the offender might more often be "chased" off rather than blown up. Who knows....could be fun being "chased" by concord from system to system until you're out of the system/region/constellation. *shrugs*.
+1
My views EXACTLY, sir. I salute you. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1013
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ptraci wrote:K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter. On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes. I'm sorry what was your point again? If the owner of said Italian restaurant were to also throw in a bottle of '93 Chablis with your meal, it might also attract lovers of '93 Chablis to the restaurant and the owner can drive an Aston Martin instead.
But your proposal isn't a '93 chablis, it's diet 7up cut with Everclear.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 01:55:00 -
[71] - Quote
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:Im just feeding the troll that the OP is, but ill form a reply anyway.
Wow is full of 10 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
EvE is an entirely different banana, if it was just like wow, and if it marketed, just like wow, and was full of even more whiny players like WoW, well then why would any one buy eve instead of wow?
Its to late to be like wow, you have to be something their not, cater to a deferent age group, maybe even a different community.
You keep saying eve needs to evolve; yet your suggesting it be dumbed down even further. Now if you where to evolve into dolphin, you might just become a sexier, maybe even smarter individual, but that doesnGÇÖt mean you could ever truly be as awesome as one.
OP is not troll.
And Eve is full of 30 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
^^^^ They're called gankers.
Is an example of a different banana a red banana?
Nor did I say Eve needs to "become" Wow so it's not too late for anything. I might however be suggesting that certain "wowlike" characteristics seem to be creeping in.
I didn't say Eve needs to evolve either. I asked "Does it need to evolve?"
In fact, my OP is asking whether "a wowlike evolution" is actually happening and whilst I sort of have an opinion on what I'd like, I'm not actually suggesting it should be anything.
But I am asking if it is evolving. Is the Salami Slice approach already in effect with things like the removal of ganking insurance for example? |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Gazmin VanBurin wrote: WOW is full of 10 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
EvE is an entirely different banana
RLY
I see you quoted a portion of my post, im glad you liked it, unfortunatly I was only able to quote a portion of yours aswell |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Ptraci wrote:K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter. On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes. I'm sorry what was your point again? If the owner of said Italian restaurant were to also throw in a bottle of '93 Chablis with your meal, it might also attract lovers of '93 Chablis to the restaurant and the owner can drive an Aston Martin instead. But your proposal isn't a '93 chablis, it's diet 7up cut with Everclear. The wine wasn't a player analogy, it was to point out that Italian food eaters go to the restuarant for the food but if you add Chablis, you may ALSO get drinkers of Chablis who may not neccessarily be there for the food but will eat it anyway while drinking their Chablis.
You get BOTH sets of customers.
Only thing we do know is that McDonalds won't ordinarily get Chablis drinkers. |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
K Suri wrote:e.]
OP is not troll.
And Eve is full of 30 year old kids that cry, want their mommy, want to have their skills handed to them on a silver platter, and never lose them, its easy and fun for their little minds, bright colors and cartoonish atmosphere.
^^^^ They're called gankers.
Is an example of a different banana a red banana?
Nor did I say Eve needs to "become" Wow so it's not too late for anything. I might however be suggesting that certain "wowlike" characteristics seem to be creeping in.
I didn't say Eve needs to evolve either. I asked "Does it need to evolve?"
In fact, my OP is asking whether "a wowlike evolution" is actually happening and whilst I sort of have an opinion on what I'd like, I'm not actually suggesting it should be anything.
But I am asking if it is evolving. Is the Salami Slice approach already in effect with things like the removal of ganking insurance for example?
You bring up good points, Im actualy just trolling a bit myself. The game is ever evolving, I am a high sec ganker and think that the new incurance polocy is a good one, tho I think it should be expanded to Self Desructing to, becauces hay If I blow up my own car what good incurance would buy me a new one.
Oh and yes there are diferant types of bananas, dont let Walmart tell you diferant. |
Leetha Layne
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?
|
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Look at this frakking chart
There is only ONE.
One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone.
That MMO is EVE.
Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.
Now back at EVE.
There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
737
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. That used to be true but now that CCP is feeling some financial pressure I think they would *love* little piece of the WoW pie.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Look at this frakking chartThere is only ONE. One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone. That MMO is EVE. Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. Now back at EVE. There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing.
I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. That used to be true but now that CCP is feeling some financial pressure I think they would *love* little piece of the WoW pie.
You can't have pieces of the WOW pie. There's no reason to play a PVE MMO that's now WOW. WOW has the most content, the most polished gameplay, arguably the best balance, as well as the most players with which to network and have fun.
Only Diablo 3 has a chance a denting the subs and it's still Blizzard. They're releasing a troll panda expansion on purpose.
Until Blizzard starts making a Space PVP game and a MMOFPS, CCP has got it covered and should try to remember WHY they're not taking a huge plunge like every other PVE fantasy mmo on that chart.
The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:19:00 -
[80] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Look at this frakking chartThere is only ONE. One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone. That MMO is EVE. Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. Now back at EVE. There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing. I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.
Find a game that's vertical in ascension that is not either:
-Kiddy stuff (Dofus, maplestory, etc) -Not a game (Second Life) -Asia-focused (Lineage, Aion)
You can't because that would be lying. And that's horrible. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.
WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.
EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.
So really, EVE has come much further than WoW ever did.
I'm not sure how well WoW would do if it wasn't for its original fanbase and the obsession with fantasy.
Personally, I would be content with EVE having 50k-100k active players. Enough to make CCP money, not too much to make space too crowded (though at 100k it would be pretty bad in the hubs). |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Leetha Layne wrote:More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?
The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor.
The more options, the greater the sales don't you think? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:22:00 -
[83] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Look at this frakking chartThere is only ONE. One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone. That MMO is EVE. Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. Now back at EVE. There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing. I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me. Find a game that's vertical in ascension that is not either: -Kiddy stuff (Dofus, maplestory, etc) -Not a game (Second Life) -Asia-focused (Lineage, Aion) You can't because that would be lying. And that's horrible. And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."
Wow isn't even on the chart.
That's lying. And that's horrible. |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Leetha Layne wrote:More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?
The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor. The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?
They would make even more money if they started pedeling meth out back aswell, The more options, the greater the sales don't you think? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.
WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.
EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.
So really, EVE has come much further than WoW ever did.
I'm not sure how well WoW would do if it wasn't for its original fanbase and the obsession with fantasy.
Personally, I would be content with EVE having 50k-100k active players. Enough to make CCP money, not too much to make space too crowded (though at 100k it would be pretty bad in the hubs). And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of changes being bought to Eve in the new WE is mostly to the benefit of players already playing. We either need something pretty significant to entice more players or we need to accept that the subscriber numbers may stay close to static from here on in.
Seriously, most of the changes coming have been done to KEEP the playerbase. What they WERE doing was trying to grow a NEW playerbase. This bit is so often overlooked it beggars belief.
CCP needs ways to attract NEW players AND keep and entertain the older ones. The older ones are the ones PREVENTING this. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Look at this frakking chartThere is only ONE. One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone. That MMO is EVE. Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. Now back at EVE. There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one. Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing. I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me. Find a game that's vertical in ascension that is not either: -Kiddy stuff (Dofus, maplestory, etc) -Not a game (Second Life) -Asia-focused (Lineage, Aion) You can't because that would be lying. And that's horrible. And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one." Wow isn't even on the chart. That's lying. And that's horrible.
Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape) CHART The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:K Suri wrote:Leetha Layne wrote:More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?
The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor. The more options, the greater the sales don't you think? They would make even more money if they started pedeling meth out back aswell, The more options, the greater the sales don't you think? I've always got my meth from the music shop. You? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
739
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:32:00 -
[88] - Quote
K Suri wrote:And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase. Does your crystal ball work for lottery numbers? Or is it just for making biased predictions about internet spaceship games?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape) CHART Exactly. So how can a game on a completely different chart be used as a subscriber comparison?
In fact that's highlighted my point. Wow is "off the chart" insofar as subs versus Eve. And it's the reason I'm asking. Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
|
Lens Thirring
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:34:00 -
[90] - Quote
K Suri wrote: And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."
Wow isn't even on the chart.
That's lying. And that's horrible.
Look at the scale on the y-axis. Now look up at the ceiling. That's where the WoW points are. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1017
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape) CHART Exactly. So how can a game on a completely different chart be used as a subscriber comparison? In fact that's highlighted my point. Wow is "off the chart" insofar as subs versus Eve. And it's the reason I'm asking. Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
321
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mortis vonShadow wrote:K Suri wrote:
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen.
The average age that plays WoW is 13years old. The average age that plays EVE is 35years old +. WoW is a game for the uneducated masses (The Mist of Pandoria - Kung-fu Panda anyone?) EVE is a niche game (Sci-Fi meets Slasher films). 'Nuff said. /thread
From a not-so-scientific poll on a forum: 32% were 25 or under 23% in the 26-30 range 19% in the 31-35 range 26% were 36 or older (16% 41 or older)
Average age is roughly 33.6 years old according to that pole (n=426). |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase. Does your crystal ball work for lottery numbers? Or is it just for making biased predictions about internet spaceship games? Funny your should say that. A few years ago I saw logins of 48-50k. I'm STILL seeing logins at 48-50k.
The arguments against ANY change (such as suicide ganking) is stifling development.
Is a crystal ball really needed? As I also pointed out , CCP has had to change direction to KEEP the base. What they were doing to GROW the base was shelved by, you guessed it, players that didn't want CHANGE. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
742
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.
If you look at K Suri's posts it looks like that's exactly what he is asking for. I guess he never heard of Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
742
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Is a crystal ball really needed? It's certainly not needed when (based on your posting history) it's easier to just make **** up and post it as a fact.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Malcanis wrote:The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.
If you look at K Suri's posts it looks like that's exactly what he is asking for. I guess he never heard of Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE.
Now that you mention it, the fact that Sony is involved, if only mildly, with Dust 514 makes me doubt about the game's future. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:44:00 -
[97] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet?
"it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."
It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset.
It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
742
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:46:00 -
[98] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset. If CCP made ganking impossible tomorrow why do you think subscriptions would substantially improve?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:47:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Is a crystal ball really needed? It's certainly not needed when (based on your posting history) it's easier to just make **** up and post it as a fact. Not been reading Eve-O? I'm regurgitating several threads by several people over these issues. Nothing is posted as fact, just like your dissertation that I'm making **** up, you're making just as much **** up to refute my ****. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.
If EVE was more like WOW, this cool promo video would fail at exactly 0:30 seconds and then we'd be stuck with 2:19 of a guy shooting a rock with a laser The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
|
Kent Reeves
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
K Suri wrote: A few years ago I saw logins of 48-50k. I'm STILL seeing logins at 48-50k.
The arguments against ANY change (such as suicide ganking) is stifling development.
Is a crystal ball really needed? As I also pointed out , CCP has had to change direction to KEEP the base. What they were doing to GROW the base was shelved by, you guessed it, players that didn't want CHANGE. EVE is a harsh mistress, and if you ignore her quirks she will bite you on the ass. Suicide ganking is completely avoidable if the pilot chooses to take the measures (not that I'm defending the ganking).
As I stated before, I choose to play EVE simply because it is unique and harsh. It's not a game for the timid, nor was it ever intended to be. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1018
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:51:00 -
[102] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.
No it couldn't. Unless you know something about CCP receiving a massive no-strings cash influx from somewhere. Did Hilmar win this weeks Euromillions lottery?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:52:00 -
[103] - Quote
This one would fail at 0:37 The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:54:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kent Reeves wrote:K Suri wrote: A few years ago I saw logins of 48-50k. I'm STILL seeing logins at 48-50k.
The arguments against ANY change (such as suicide ganking) is stifling development.
Is a crystal ball really needed? As I also pointed out , CCP has had to change direction to KEEP the base. What they were doing to GROW the base was shelved by, you guessed it, players that didn't want CHANGE. EVE is a harsh mistress, and if you ignore her quirks she will bite you on the ass. Suicide ganking is completely avoidable if the pilot chooses to take the measures (not that I'm defending the ganking). As I stated before, I choose to play EVE simply because it is unique and harsh. It's not a game for the timid, nor was it ever intended to be. Well, not entirely avoidable (mistakes happen, even if every precaution is taken), but a lot of the risk can be removed. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:54:00 -
[105] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset. If CCP made ganking impossible tomorrow why do you think subscriptions would substantially improve? Didn't say substantially but since you asked, suicide ganking is just ONE issue that may be causing newer members to do a "fuckthisiamouttahere" or even holding them out. It's a guesstimate. I don;t know. Hence the OP. Have a read.
But you are completely overlooking the crux of the thread. It's this stifling of ANY attempt by CCP to adapt for a greater share of the pie that is causing the problem. They MAY need to bring changes in a very gradual (and I've used the term Salami Slice) manner to attract more players.
CCP had WiS ripped out from under it's feet, so in order to grow, they now need to make FiS more attractive to a larger audience. Is a "wowlike" space inevitable? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:56:00 -
[106] - Quote
So 48k users logged in on Saturday night to mine? You're linkys as analogies are starting to get quite silly. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
33
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
LFG Level 50 Logi for a 30-man Sansha Kuvakei raid The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset. No it couldn't. Unless you know something about CCP receiving a massive no-strings cash influx from somewhere. Did Hilmar win this weeks Euromillions lottery? Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way.
The Old Farts Club made every effort to make sure that didn't happen. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1019
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 02:59:00 -
[109] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset. If CCP made ganking impossible tomorrow why do you think subscriptions would substantially improve? Didn't say substantially but since you asked, suicide ganking is just ONE issue that may be causing newer members to do a "fuckthisiamouttahere" or even holding them out. It's a guesstimate. I don;t know. Hence the OP. Have a read. But you are completely overlooking the crux of the thread. It's this stifling of ANY attempt by CCP to adapt for a greater share of the pie that is causing the problem. They MAY need to bring changes in a very gradual (and I've used the term Salami Slice) manner to attract more players. CCP had WiS ripped out from under it's feet, so in order to grow, they now need to make FiS more attractive to a larger audience. Is a "wowlike" space inevitable?
But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1019
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different. You not getting my point yet? "it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."It HASN'T happened with this mindset. It WON'T happen with this mindset. It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset. No it couldn't. Unless you know something about CCP receiving a massive no-strings cash influx from somewhere. Did Hilmar win this weeks Euromillions lottery? Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. The Old Farts Club made every effort to make sure that didn't happen.
You didn't seem to want to reply to my serious posts, so I thought I'd give you one in your own style in the hope that it would be more palatable. Perhaps I should have thrown in some more labelling, wild generalisation and ad-hominems?
I'm so sorry.
Seriously though, why do you play EVE when there are dozens or hundreds of other games that will give you the experience you seem to want. Does it offend you so much that this one game has a different philosophy to all the rest?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:05:00 -
[111] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1019
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:11:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve?
Apparently completely re-writing EVE's PvE to be worth doing as the focus of a game experience rather than a means to an end would be a "minor code change".
The things one learns at 3AM... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew.
Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:14:00 -
[114] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew. Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. There is no contradiction.
He did not say growth stopped, he said growth slowed, which is 100% accurate.
As always, correlation does not equal causation, but using only correlation what he said is accurate. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:15:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve?
Here's an example.
CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense.
At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c
And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:20:00 -
[116] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew. Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. There is no contradiction. He did not say growth stopped, he said growth slowed, which is 100% accurate. As always, correlation does not equal causation, but using only correlation what he said is accurate. wtf?
EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now
He said subs GREW despite more "safeness" being added. What bit did I get wrong? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:20:00 -
[117] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve? Here's an example. CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense. At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history? Except that couldn't be done. Right now, ganking is allowed (and through the method of allowment ie mild penalties, encouraged as a gameplay option) and more than a simple exploit declaration would be needed.
In fact if they went this route, a lot of people would rage quit... and a few would probably burn down CCP headquarters (mild exaggeration, meant as a joke for those who cannot tell). |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:20:00 -
[118] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve? Here's an example. CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense. At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history? I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm still laughing about the idea that removing suicide ganking, something has come to define the cold, harsh universe that CCP advertises, would be a "minor mechanic change".
You're either a new player and uninformed about the game or a really bad troll.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:21:00 -
[119] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew. Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. There is no contradiction. He did not say growth stopped, he said growth slowed, which is 100% accurate. As always, correlation does not equal causation, but using only correlation what he said is accurate. wtf? EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is nowHe said subs GREW despite more "safeness" being added. What bit did I get wrong? You missed the part that he said that subbed grew when EVE was more hostile, many years ago. And as safeness was added (starting with the Concord buff if I remember right), sub rate decreased.
Pretty much, you missed his whole post. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve? Here's an example. CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense. At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history?
OK but if that's the case, the unarmed vessel can't be participating in any PVP activities either. No mining, no transporting, no missioning (except for no LP or ISK), no trading, no plexing, no incursions. Doing any of thise activities will now earn an aggression timer.
In short, you're an idiot. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1019
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:30:00 -
[121] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: You missed the part that he said that subbed grew when EVE was more hostile, many years ago. And as safeness was added (starting with the Concord buff if I remember right), sub rate decreased.
Pretty much, you missed his whole post.
NBS
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:31:00 -
[122] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve? Here's an example. CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense. At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history? Except that couldn't be done. Right now, ganking is allowed (and through the method of allowment ie mild penalties, encouraged as a gameplay option) and more than a simple exploit declaration would be needed. In fact if they went this route, a lot of people would rage quit... and a few would probably burn down CCP headquarters (mild exaggeration, meant as a joke for those who cannot tell). The example was of how it COULD be done, not what should be done. I was responding to how easy it would be to change if CCP really wanted to. A single paragraph would create the same effect as making code changes and CCP HAS done this MANY times before. It's a simple case of the definition of an exploit or flawed mechanic.
Recent example is decshields. No code change, no fanfair, no massive ragequits. CCP effectively stomped all wardecs for a huge majority of players that relied on being able to dec based on what was once an "exploit".
As for "lots" ragequitting, I'm not so sure. Perhaps the gankers would be pissed and fair enough but I'm betting the vast majority of highsec would rejoice or shrug and the majority of 0.0 would just shrug. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1019
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:33:00 -
[123] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew. Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. There is no contradiction. He did not say growth stopped, he said growth slowed, which is 100% accurate. As always, correlation does not equal causation, but using only correlation what he said is accurate. wtf? EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is nowHe said subs GREW despite more "safeness" being added. What bit did I get wrong?
That as more safety has been added, the rate of sub increase has slowed. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the assertion that making hi-sec safer will make EVE more popular. You suppose it will because of your preconceived notions about what makes people play EVE in the first place, but you've ignored the actual data. EVE grew fastest while it was more dangerous. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:35:00 -
[124] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Oh **** off. The changes being suggested are minor mechanic changes and would cost a few bucks at best. They STOPPED the massive new development that MAY have brought in new subs in a big way. rofl...completely removing suicide ganking is more than a "minor mechanic change". How long have you been playing Eve? lol. How long you been playing Eve? Here's an example. CCP NEWS Gentlemen, killing an unarmed vessel in highsec is now considered an exploit if done without using wardec or aggression mechanics. Any player doing this will be temp banned and then permabanned if they repeat the offense. At $50 per hour, that's a total cost of about $0.80c And how many things have been announced thus in Eve's history? OK but if that's the case, the unarmed vessel can't be participating in any PVP activities either. No mining, no transporting, no missioning (except for no LP or ISK), no trading, no plexing, no incursions. Doing any of thise activities will now earn an aggression timer. In short, you're an idiot. And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:38:00 -
[125] - Quote
Unless the boost is everyone can wardec everyone for free with no timer, your ideas are as useful as what my dog left on the lawn this morning, as are all your horrible ramblings. Idiot. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Unless the boost is everyone can wardec everyone for free with no timer, your ideas are as useful as what my dog left on the lawn this morning, as are all your horrible ramblings. Idiot. You just don't understand his brilliant theories. If CCP just threw in the towel and completely changed the tone and mechanics of the game then Eve would have 11 million subscribers overnight. It's just us old bitter vets keeping this from happening.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:41:00 -
[127] - Quote
K Suri wrote:And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. I love how in all of your threads when you realize you're losing the argument you resort to name calling. I have a six year old nephew who does the same thing and it's adorable. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:42:00 -
[128] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Malcanis wrote: But historically, EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is now. If anything, the correlation is that making hi-sec safer = slower growth.
You contradicted yourself. Highsec has been made safer over time and subs grew. Nullsec is about to be made safer and potentially highsec as well. The former was to keep the playerbase, the latter may be to retain and grow the playerbase. There is no contradiction. He did not say growth stopped, he said growth slowed, which is 100% accurate. As always, correlation does not equal causation, but using only correlation what he said is accurate. wtf? EVE grew consistently despite being even more "hostile" than it is nowHe said subs GREW despite more "safeness" being added. What bit did I get wrong? That as more safety has been added, the rate of sub increase has slowed. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the assertion that making hi-sec safer will make EVE more popular. You suppose it will because of your preconceived notions about what makes people play EVE in the first place, but you've ignored the actual data. EVE grew fastest while it was more dangerous. But it still grew - albeit slower and it's been said - causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.
There have been MANY other factors that have reduced subs, notwithstanding WiS etc. and for all we know, the slow increase may in fact be offsetting losses because highsec is safer? Who knows?
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:45:00 -
[129] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Unless the boost is everyone can wardec everyone for free with no timer, your ideas are as useful as what my dog left on the lawn this morning, as are all your horrible ramblings. Idiot. Why does the timer need to be removed? If you CANNOT leave the corp on a declaration a removal of a timer is not neccessary.
As for what your dog left on the lawn, since we're going down this personal attack road, perhaps your dog grabbed you by the collar and dragged you outside. Just how big is the pile of **** on your lawn? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
K Suri wrote:since we're going down this personal attack road ohgod the irony
CCP just lock the thread now...it's never going to get better than this.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:47:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. I love how in all of your threads when you realize you're losing the argument you resort to name calling. I have a six year old nephew who does the same thing and it's adorable. Clever omission of where the name calling started from. You're starting your usual slide from intelligible to terrible once exhausted don't ya know. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:48:00 -
[132] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. I love how in all of your threads when you realize you're losing the argument you resort to name calling. I have a six year old nephew who does the same thing and it's adorable. Clever omission of where the name calling started from. You're starting your usual slide from intelligible to terrible once exhausted don't ya know. Resorting to name calling after someone else does makes you look even less mature than doing so once you have run out of arguments. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:48:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:since we're going down this personal attack road ohgod the irony CCP just lock the thread now...it's never going to get better than this. The usual request after you **** a thread. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 03:54:00 -
[134] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. I love how in all of your threads when you realize you're losing the argument you resort to name calling. I have a six year old nephew who does the same thing and it's adorable. Clever omission of where the name calling started from. You're starting your usual slide from intelligible to terrible once exhausted don't ya know. Resorting to name calling after someone else does makes you look even less mature than doing so once you have run out of arguments. Oh my. You're expecting me to follow some quaint morality line as I get trolled by people who obviously don't want topics like this discussed.
And that's exactly how they keep getting sticky subjects they don't like debunked. That's exactly how and why people get sick to death of trying to discuss stuff and that's exactly why, over time, the only ones left on Eve forums all agree with each other and CCP sees it as a consensus.
Good to see you fall for the tactic too.
|
Dirk Magnum
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
44
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:03:00 -
[135] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Oh my. You're expecting me to follow some quaint morality line as I get trolled by people who obviously don't want topics like this discussed.
And that's exactly how they keep getting sticky subjects they don't like debunked. That's exactly how and why people get sick to death of trying to discuss stuff and that's exactly why, over time, the only ones left on Eve forums all agree with each other and CCP sees it as a consensus. But there is consensus: players who play Eve in the original spirit of the game do not support the sterilization of it.
And:
Quote:Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations? You aren't "nurturing" anyone in this game if you make this game easier, you're just setting them up for failure if they ever decide to try the 90% of this game that isn't high sec carebearing. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:07:00 -
[136] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:And for the long-term, you're a ******* moron.
So wardecs aren't allowed? Infiltration of corp and internal killing not allowed?
I've ALSO said - moron - that it WOULD require boosts to the wardec mechanics and the removal of the ability to hop corps and stay in NPC making the likelihood of PvP a GREATER possibility. I love how in all of your threads when you realize you're losing the argument you resort to name calling. I have a six year old nephew who does the same thing and it's adorable. Clever omission of where the name calling started from. You're starting your usual slide from intelligible to terrible once exhausted don't ya know. Resorting to name calling after someone else does makes you look even less mature than doing so once you have run out of arguments. Oh my. You're expecting me to follow some quaint morality line as I get trolled by people who obviously don't want topics like this discussed. And that's exactly how they keep getting sticky subjects they don't like debunked. That's exactly how and why people get sick to death of trying to discuss stuff and that's exactly why, over time, the only ones left on Eve forums all agree with each other and CCP sees it as a consensus. Good to see you fall for the tactic too. No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments, while the ones going with personal attacks get seen for the fools they are, thereby allowing you to gain support.
I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:10:00 -
[137] - Quote
K Suri wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Unless the boost is everyone can wardec everyone for free with no timer, your ideas are as useful as what my dog left on the lawn this morning, as are all your horrible ramblings. Idiot. Why does the timer need to be removed? If you CANNOT leave the corp on a declaration a removal of a timer is not neccessary. As for what your dog left on the lawn, since we're going down this personal attack road, perhaps your dog grabbed you by the collar and dragged you outside. Just how big is the pile of **** on your lawn?
You appear to be mad, sir. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
745
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:12:00 -
[138] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments,
If you check his post history you'll find that he doesn't like to bother with trivialities like evidence or logic.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:15:00 -
[139] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Corina Jarr wrote: No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments,
If you check his post history you'll find that he doesn't like to bother with trivialities like evidence or logic. I try to avoid being biased against the person I debate with, and let each thread be its own. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity.
And of course, it was being discussed/debated until the name calling started. I was not the guilty party. So yes, let's all succumb to hijacked threads and make our own apologies for THEIR behaviour.
And while you are so affording of conciliatory posts, go back and look at the number of times any of the Deklein Co boys **** up threads and forum members are forced to back off by being conciliatory to SAVE the thread for discussion.
All too common and CCP has NEVER stopped them. Perhaps this is another thread for another day. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:31:00 -
[141] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments, while the ones going with personal attacks get seen for the fools they are, thereby allowing you to gain support.
I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity. Did you mean like this?
Post #772 Suicide gank topic.
Corina Jarr wrote:Learn the game before you go off and sound like a moron (too late but try for next time).
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
746
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
When I was a young harlot the axe murderer who raised me always used to say, "Two wrongs make a right!" The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:42:00 -
[143] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:No, I expect you to provide supporting evidence for your arguments, while the ones going with personal attacks get seen for the fools they are, thereby allowing you to gain support.
I love when topics like this get discussed/debated, but not when people can't come up with arguments with anything to support them and so they resort to name calling and stupidity. Did you mean like this? Post #772 Suicide gank topic. Corina Jarr wrote:Learn the game before you go off and sound like a moron (too late but try for next time). Not only was his posting terrible (very hard to understand at times), but he was acting like a five year old in his continual "you LIE!!" manner. He was looking like a moron, so I called him on it. I'm not perfect.
And if you notice, I followed it up with actual arguments. I didn't leave it at that. |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises Black Watch.
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 04:58:00 -
[144] - Quote
I know its a bad idea to post in general discussion,yet i cant resist...
From what im seeing is that some people feel that WOW has a larger playerbase and appears more attractive because of the fact that it is very..safe with very little consequenses. I wont say that there is no truth in this but you need to consider the fact that WOW is using a completely different..style. You go from elfs and goblins to space ships. In general you will find that there is many people out there that can enjoy this kind of gameplay,story and characters, while there are a lot less that even like the idea of spaceships.
Now you have to consider the diffense between the type of person who would play WOW against the general EVE player. Most EVE players are in their 20's and up. Most WOW players are 13 and up. Teenagers simply do not (in general) have the patience to play a game that is as complex as EVE is. They need a game where they can shift-click on an item,see that its better and throw it on and thats as advanced as they want to get. If they go into a raid or instance and die they want to get out before their repair bill goes over 30 gold. Why waste time on something if your going to loose stuff?
The same thing can be seen over and over again. In general WOW players want something that is fast and easy. Everything from the market,to getting gear,to joining and leaving guilds,leveling 6 alts,or just sitting telling bad jokes and trash talking in trade chat because you know there is no consequense.Heck look at guild bank thefts. If someone steals your stuff it will just be reimbursed so no need to worry about who you recruit or what aces they have. And if something dosent go your way? Ohh boy ragequit and change servers and tell everyone how good you where on your previus one
In EVE you cant escape your bad reputation. Your stuck with it unless your willing to start over. Yes i realize you can buy a character but then you have to think what reputation that person had.
So..What im trying to say is that sure,EVE MIGHT attract more players if there where locations where they could do whatever they wanted and not have to worry,but it would be a different kind of players,and it would be the start of changing EVE into...well..WOW in space.
I know that i for one wouldent like to see this happen. CCP made walking in station a realety to make the game more attractive to a different kind of player,and thats as far as they should go with altering the basics of the game. Let EVE be rough,atleast thats the EVE i fell in love with. The number of players will never be the same as WOW,but atleast it will be a game where you dont just mindlessly run around for a few hours before you go to bed smiling because you killed a raid boss for the 6th time.
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Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
Selling Swift Zulian Tiger, 5 plex ONO. |
Renturu
Tribal Spirit Tribal Unity Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:09:00 -
[146] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:K Suri wrote:
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Speaking of food, McDonalds has over 25,000 restaurants in the world and feeds at least 46 million people per day. They are a publicly traded corporation that took in 26.4 billion dollars last quarter. On the other hand my favorite Italian restaurant probably feeds 100 people a day and makes far less money than McDonalds. They only have 1 location. But the food is always fresh, the octopus is divine, as is the wild berry salad, the rosemary foccacia, and the saffron scallop fettucini. And you know what? I like going there much more than I like McDonalds. They don't make billions per quarter, but the owner has a 500 series Mercedes. I'm sorry what was your point again?
#win
|
Richard Aiel
Point of No Return Waterboard
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:11:00 -
[147] - Quote
Ann133566 wrote:Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW?
According to BioWare, yes
Quote:Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
"If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
35
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote:Ann133566 wrote:Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? According to BioWare, yes Quote:Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
Respect status: lost.
You can't beat WOW at its own game. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Russell Casey
One Ton Reverberation Project
72
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:13:00 -
[149] - Quote
It's popular and successful, therefore it sucks.
Back in the old days, and I mean pre-BC, WoW was pretty cool. People went out and did crazy stuff like raiding capital cities and kiting bosses into market areas just for lolz, not for achievements and costume pieces like they do now. You had world pvp for its own sake and people had to actually work together and deal with failure when they went to run dungeons and raids.
|
Richard Aiel
Point of No Return Waterboard
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:14:00 -
[150] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Richard Aiel wrote:Ann133566 wrote:Let me ask you this. Is it wrong not to be WoW? According to BioWare, yes Quote:Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of Bioware said: "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb." Respect status: lost. You can't beat WOW at its own game.
Yeah why you think Im avoiding SWTOR Im in the beta, but it got uninstalled.
Russell Casey wrote:It's popular and successful, therefore it sucks.
Back in the old days, and I mean pre-BC, WoW was pretty cool. People went out and did crazy stuff like raiding capital cities and kiting bosses into market areas just for lolz, not for achievements and costume pieces like they do now. You had world pvp for its own sake and people had to actually work together and deal with failure when they went to run dungeons and raids.
I saw an article that theyre thinking of putting in progression servers "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
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Renturu
Tribal Spirit Tribal Unity Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:17:00 -
[151] - Quote
Well, the only thing I could see as a "WOW experience" (such an absolute fail term, but we'll go with it) would be to make only 1.0 Concordable. No Concord in .9 down. That should be left to factions.
Come on, the start out systems are in 1.0 and you are generally protected. If you want to get more profitable, they need to join a corp, learn the ropes and get rich, like the "current player base" has. The one thing that I LOVE about EVE is that it is brutal... It's not all lovey dovey, hold your hand and give you a cookie. In fact, if you don't catch on quickly, you'll get raped, have your hands cut off and get your "cookie" taken away.
I guess when (that's meant "IF") Incarna goes full steam (with true WiS), the player base will grow as there are many who would love to play with space barbies rather than space ships. That, per CCP, is just not in the dice atm.
IDK, my plug nickel |
Alaric Faelen
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:53:00 -
[152] - Quote
Wouldn't normally reply here, but among the bad there is the good posting too, and to that I'll respond.
I played WoW for a bit but disliked it fairly quickly, in fact the more I got into it, the less I liked it. I've played Eve for a little over half a year now, and I like Eve quite a bit more, although I go through periods of not playing then playing a bunch.
If this stings, sorry but the truth always hurts someone. The player base between the two games isn't very different. Eve players like to think there is, but the good folk are good regardless of the scenery and the video game loser stereotypes are the same everywhere. I've seen shockingly bad examples within days of playing any MMO, so to me, it's a wash. The sad fact is that the single greatest frustration or 'glitch' in any MMO- is the other people.
One thing that no one ever mentions, but was the thing that struck me the hardest when I first played Eve- is that the actual gameplay of Eve is endless menu boxes. You can double click in space a bit, and hotkey systems, but really- the entire Eve 'experience' is a million menu boxes. Think about that- for as pretty as Eve is, you could essentially play it without the spaceship on screen, and in fact most screens become so cluttered with menu boxes flashing bits of info that you can often completely miss the space battle burning up your graphics card.
Obviously I still like Eve. Although I must admit that it's often more fun to READ about Eve than to PLAY Eve. It has a bewildering array of things to do, but they are all really a series of pop up menu boxes to do any of them. That's why the drive for WiS. Even though I don't need WiS and never use it when docked- it's not why I got into Eve to begin with- I can still totally get why CCP went that way. You aren't a person, you are a ship- or series of them- and gameplay is menu boxes--- even if it turns out to be a good game model (again, it works for me) it's just 'not what you expect' in a game, especially if WoW is your paradigm, and that alone probably loses people by the time their trial is up.
Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay. Eve's reputation is horrible outside of the game base already- but add that vicious learning curve to the rather unexpected model of clicking menu boxes to play a game.....it's just not kids or renny festival leftovers that just 'don't get' Eve, it's certainly an acquired taste. CCP, imo, makes sense with WiS even if it's not my thing. |
Krios Ahzek
35
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 05:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote: Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.
Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay.
That's when your argument fell short. I grew up on Diablo 2 and to a lesser extent Ultima Online. UO was very good before the PVE/PVP shard split. Diablo 2 had a large trust abuse/scam component to it that could make you quite a bit of money. It was awesome. The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 06:18:00 -
[154] - Quote
do you realize only wow can be wow? look at all the garbage korean mmos also glaring differences, multiple servers, and halfass market crippled by bind on pickup/use stupid incarna lovin pedestrians |
Krios Ahzek
36
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 06:22:00 -
[155] - Quote
Really, it's quite simple.
MMO creation flowchart: SO YOU WANT TO MAKE A MMO!
1. Are you Sony Online Entertainment? NO: Advance to question 2. YES: Please cease existing instantly.
2. Are you Blizzard? YES: Make WOW, a WOW expansion, or WOW 2 NO: Make something different from WOW or you'll die a painful bankrupt death even if you have an awesome IP to work with (ex: Warhammer, LOTR, Conan)
The hero you're stuck with anyways. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1026
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 06:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Alaric Faelen wrote: Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.
Excuse me. You seem to be saying that scamming people for billions of ISK does not constitute epic gameplay. That's when your argument fell short.
I was first interested in EVE when I heard about the EVE Bank scam in 2006. I've never had the inclination (let alone the brains) to pull off such a stunt, but boy was I fascinated to hear about a game where it was possible.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1027
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 06:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
K Suri wrote: causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.
Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Krios Ahzek
36
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 06:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote: causation is the question. I'm trying to point out that more recent sub slowdown has NO relation to "safe space" because NOTHING has happened for a very long time to cause it.
Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot?
K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread. Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
Dalmont Delantee
Shiloh Technologies STR8NGE BREW
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 07:02:00 -
[159] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Completely safe areas will destroy EVE, EVE is based on conflict in all its forms.
its building pretty things is just one part of EVE, blowing them up is the second :P If high sec was safe then there would be less destruction and therefore less demand therefore less reason to make things....
Please think before you speak :) |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
95
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 08:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
Not that I have anything against World of Warcraft, but let me give a sample of SAT analogy question to help you understand the subtle differences between WoW and EVE:
World of Warcrft : EVE Online
(A) Hyundai Avante : Mercedes SL 65 AMG (B) Seven-Eleven : Bergdorf Goodman (C) Jack in the Box : El Bulli (D) Gap for Kids : Giorgio Armani Collezioni (E) Christmas Stories for Kids : Journals of Soren Kierkegaard
If the analogy stil doesn't convince you of the differences.... I don't know what else can.
Oh by the way, I do play WoW as well, just like how I enjoy eating McDonald's once in a while.
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Zyrbalax III
Goldcrest Enterprises
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 10:30:00 -
[161] - Quote
Have to say this discussion seems to just go round in circles. A lot of people want EVE to stay dark and dangerous where everything's always at risk. Some folks questioning whether safer might bring more cash to CCP which might be good for the game.
Why can't we have both?
Presenting: EVE - parallel universes.
CCP create a duplicate EVE where non-consensual PVP is just not possible. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. And then allow the playerbase to choose. Want to be completely safe in your own EVE universe? EVE B ---> . Do you like the dark and gritty, constant risk of loss? Stay put in EVE A.
Personally I don't do much PVP (I defend myself when attacked but don't (yet) go looking for fights), but I would stay put. I like the added danger.
But I understand it's a turnoff to a lot of people, and I have no problem with them having a "safer" sandbox to play EVE in. And if that safer sandbox brings in tons of new players, well that's good for both sandboxes as it gives CCP more cash to develop the game for both sandboxes.
Having distinct sandboxes also means the safe carebear isk faucet in EVE B wouldn't undermine the EVE A economy.
If EVE is going to survive and flourish, CCP need cash. That means more paying customers. If you don't want CCP to break your sandbox to attract those customers, then CCP need to build a new sandbox. This might be a quick way to do it. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge
22
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 11:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
Personally I quit wow for EvE.....because I got sick of the every-kid-gets a trophy in my MMO.
...for that matter I will never give Blizzard another penny as long as that moron Greg Street is there.
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Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 11:37:00 -
[163] - Quote
WoW imo was successful because it came out at the right time.
They kept the graphics less resource hungry by adopting the cartoon style graphics which meant more people could actually play the game.
Back when WoW came out the games always had to make a trade-off between content and graphics, WoW went for acceptable graphics (cartoon, as realish but poor quality would not have worked) and more content.
Some other games went for more realistic graphics and less content.
Trouble with the making graphics more lifelike back then meant that there was far less people that could actually play the games to a satifsactory standard, people just did not have the equipment to play them well at home.
So WoW did well out of it.
Main reason WoW still keeps people is because of the amount of content and the amount of players they have playing it. Plus it's still not too resource hungry. |
L Salander
All Web Investigations
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 12:22:00 -
[164] - Quote
Every musician should strive to be a lady gaga clone (who is a madonna clone anyway), every game should strive to be a CS/Wow clone, and so on and so on. It makes the most sense, economically!
Is that what this thread is saying?
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WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
67
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 13:08:00 -
[165] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.
WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.
EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.
DIdnt you know that Fantasy and Sci-fi are the same thing? According to any bookshop Ive been into in the last 10 years anyhow.
In fact my local bookshop has a section that reads "Science Fiction" and has NOTHING but books about dragons and elves.
I know its "fiction" but when did the lord of the rings get associated with "Science"?
AND ANOTHER THING.
1984, Brave New World and Neuromancer were all in the general fiction section. Apparently if your science fiction book gets good critical reviews, its no longer "sci-fi".
In short: Bastards.
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March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
34
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"? .... Food for thought. try this: "This WoW is Eve" "This is WoW Eve"
hope it helps |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
218
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 13:17:00 -
[167] - Quote
Posting in a not-so-stealth WiS whine thread.
I got tired of reading OP's emo-rants that current players don't want change.
I want change. I want walking in stations to be cool. I want EVE to be the coolest sci-fi simulator that encompasses everything it can, just like CCP does.
What I (and many older players) don't want is for the original game to stagnate and die while CCP slowly develops a prototype barbie doll "feature" with unclear goals.
To put it in terms of your restaurant and '93 chablis analogy...
CCP realized their kitchen is getting old, so they upgraded most of the appliances that customers rarely see. In the process, they broke a few heatlamps and chipped a few dishes. Food is going out faster, but cold now occasionally, on bad china too, diminishing the experience a bit. Not to be deterred, CCP announced development of a new chain of restaurants serving fast food (with sparkles!) and as a test market, put some gourmet burgers on the menu here. And then they charged $20 for pickles and catchup.
Of course customers got pissy and left, and of course CCP is going back to their base to fix what brought us all here in the first place.
They'll get back to gourmet hamburgers when they can present it as a viable option too I'm sure. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Galadriel Vasquez
Bright Paradigm
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 13:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
World of Warcraft was good 5 years ago. Its in terminal decline. Lets copy that?
Nah. |
Ficus Plant
The Plant Initiative
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 14:35:00 -
[169] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Everything that's interesting, exciting and worthwhile about EVE comes from the freedom it gives you to interact with other players. The ongoing issue is that EVE is one of the very few games available these days which actually let you genuinely lose, and the culture shock of encountering a game that doesn't treat you as a special snowflake, that doesn't gaurantee you hero status, that doesn't protect you from your bad decisions, that doesn't stop you permanently losing money, assets, space, even skillpoints, if you screw up badly enough is so severe to many people encountering it for the first time that they assume that it's a mistake, a design flaw, a problem to be solved.
I think this totally sums up why so many people do not stay with EVE. There are definitely way too many 'special snowflakes' out there in the bigger MMO (and real) world that will just never get the fact that they should be allowed to lose and lose badly. If you can't lose where the hell is the challenge?
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Causalitii Eullon
C.A.S. Assisted Living
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 14:36:00 -
[170] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote:Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
I hazard that you never made end game content in Wow? Organising raids, leading them, organising guilds to be able to raid and the player interaction involved in that (not to mention politics) is just as intensive as in Eve, although at a smaller scale (10's to 100's not 1000's) There's not that much difference, the same type of player who will run an alliance or FC a fleet in Eve, will most likely run a successful guild or RL succesful raids in WoW. It's the players who aren't interested in these areas that differ the most, in WoW they do areana's and PVP and trash talk in trade. In Eve they suicide gank and trash talk in local....... oh wait not that different
You sir need to go back to your precious WoW
|
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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 14:38:00 -
[171] - Quote
K Suri wrote:I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.
Let me give you a hand: http://mmodata.net/
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Ana Vyr
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 14:44:00 -
[172] - Quote
I play both games.
I'm part of a raiding guild in WoW, and as far as that gameplay model goes, WoW is really excellent. PvP in WoW is fun and fast paced and meaningless.
EvE is a completely different animal. Much more a thinking man's game. Much more complex than WoW could ever hope to be, and there are very harsh consequences for failure in any endeavour.
Comparing the two games is fruitless because they represent entirely different gameplay styles. Both are excellent games. |
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 15:19:00 -
[173] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:You know what?
No MMO has tried to beat WOW at its own game and won.
/Thread, set, match
Um, sorry? Adding a safe zone would somehow make eve a fantasy game, add unicorns, elves and special mounts to the game?
I'm sorry, I don't understand your logic. Could you please explain how that is supposed to happen?
Oh, and besides, there is at least one other game which is as old as eve that is in fact more succefull than eve, and that game does not only have safe areas, in fact there is only one place that isn't safe from pvp. In addition to this, there are a number of mini games in which the players can engage in pvp, some risk free, others with stakes and the option to loose your stuff etc.
That game is called Runescape. It's a fantasy mmorpg, but it's certainly not wow. It has safe zones, but other than that, I can't really see many similarities to RS and wow.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't think any of the players that are suggesting that we make highsec safer is proposing to turn eve in to wow. In fact, the only players that I've heard even mentioning wow is the so called hard core elite of eve. Considering their obsession with wow, I think they ought to go and play it. Have you noticed how some ships are actually blue? Weird isn't it? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 15:27:00 -
[174] - Quote
I have never played WOW or any other MMORPG at ALL. Only EVE I have taken a gander at their demo's and youtube footage,, and Leeroy Jenkins and everything. But it all seems a big gigantic YAWN compared to EVE.
I love EVE's challenge and practically reverse vertical 'undrhaning' Learning Curve, the cahllnge of resourcing to figure it al out, whether one does only Pew-Pew, or dedicates oneself to Industrialism and Spreadsheets-In-Space.
It is unique and must remain so......
BUT......there is indeed the Coin. And the need for establishing new players a bit outside of "The Freshman Year Torture Hijinks" of American Universities atmosphere permeating High Sec.
I think the best option is to go ahead and make 1.0 and .9 Space 'SAFE'. No player ships can be targeted and Smartbombs fail to operate.
That's it, plain and silple. Absolutely NO other changes to the game.
Their rewards come when they brave out of the playpen.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
1nsan1ty
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 15:41:00 -
[175] - Quote
In my opinion.. everything in Eve takes ages to do, which instantly makes it a non-casual game :D |
1nsan1ty
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 15:50:00 -
[176] - Quote
And if you guys think that making Eve 'safe' is going to increase public interest for the game, bring more subscribers or whatever, you are oblivious.
Making Eve better is going to achieve those goals, not safer.. and in order to make Eve better, there are only few things to be done:
- drastic changes to the game-play, especially PVE
- race balancing
- overhaul of some ship classes, ship balancing
- UI overhaul, make the god damn thing appealing and useful, its hideous in its current state
Thats from top of my head :) |
Krios Ahzek
40
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:06:00 -
[177] - Quote
Zyrbalax III wrote:Have to say this discussion seems to just go round in circles. A lot of people want EVE to stay dark and dangerous where everything's always at risk. Some folks questioning whether safer might bring more cash to CCP which might be good for the game.
Why can't we have both?
Presenting: EVE - parallel universes.
CCP create a duplicate EVE where non-consensual PVP is just not possible. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. And then allow the playerbase to choose. Want to be completely safe in your own EVE universe? EVE B ---> . Do you like the dark and gritty, constant risk of loss? Stay put in EVE A.
Personally I don't do much PVP (I defend myself when attacked but don't (yet) go looking for fights), but I would stay put. I like the added danger.
But I understand it's a turnoff to a lot of people, and I have no problem with them having a "safer" sandbox to play EVE in. And if that safer sandbox brings in tons of new players, well that's good for both sandboxes as it gives CCP more cash to develop the game for both sandboxes.
Having distinct sandboxes also means the safe carebear isk faucet in EVE B wouldn't undermine the EVE A economy.
If EVE is going to survive and flourish, CCP need cash. That means more paying customers. If you don't want CCP to break your sandbox to attract those customers, then CCP need to build a new sandbox. This might be a quick way to do it.
Trammel/Felucia split. Google it. It kills games.
Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: I think the best option is to go ahead and make 1.0 and .9 Space 'SAFE'. No player ships can be targeted and Smartbombs fail to operate.
And the gates out of those systems would be swarmed with sensor glittering gank ships.....just waiting.
|
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
35
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
2 schools of thought here
1) Make EvE safer and Maybe Raise subs enough to where their ROI is worth the expansions they release while trying to keep player retention high.
2) Make EvE more destructible and allow players to shoot each other in the face which results in them losing their assets. This in turn will result them buying more plex and/or buying more subscription time to recoup said loss.
If you were CCP which would you pick!
Personally, I no issue with the 2nd choice so long as "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time" |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
111
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:43:00 -
[180] - Quote
Rofl. Go look at Alganon if you want to see why an indie developer copying WoW is a bad thing.
Then go over to WoW and ask 100 people "do you play WoW over EVE online because its safer?"
The majority of people will say "WTF is EVE stop taking to me u noob cuz i ned to get fiftee wolv pelts beefor mi bedtim"
seriously GTFO
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
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Raziphan Rebular
Crypsus Tetsuo Shio
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 16:49:00 -
[181] - Quote
You should consider how many MMOs have tried to copy wow as a means to success, you should consider how many of those are now dead, or on a free2play pay2win model. Now quit eve and go play wow. We on't want your kind here.
Bottom line is you can't beat WoW by trying to be WoW. I if you don't believe me just watch what happened with SWTOR over the next year or two. |
Reeno Coleman
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:00:00 -
[182] - Quote
It's not the safeness that keeps away the "WoW-type players" (sorry for the stereotype). It's the lack of content; WoW has new stuff to offer around every corner and you are taken by the hand to reach it. Yes, it is repetitious, but it's very well camouflaged repetition. Not so in EvE. Once you flown 20 lvl4 Missions, you kind of get that that's all you'll ever get. Unless... unless you really commit and get into what EVE is all about. Nullsec, Wormholes, Industry, the Market, ... pick your favorite. This 5% of the players then complain about safety as it makes their game boring, they already passed the threshold and internalized some things you don't see elsewhere. |
Reislier
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:17:00 -
[183] - Quote
lol-ganking is the issue.
The high sec people have problems with one kind of ganker.
A lol-gank is a pipe bomb tossed in the window of a school bus. A dazzling display of skill and hard work. /spit
A ganker should play the damn game. Be a hitman with a purpose and take real cold hard risks in the freaking game. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
221
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:41:00 -
[184] - Quote
Reislier wrote:lol-ganking is the issue.
The high sec people have problems with one kind of ganker.
A lol-gank is a pipe bomb tossed in the window of a school bus. A dazzling display of skill and hard work. /spit
A ganker should play the damn game. Be a hitman with a purpose and take real cold hard risks in the freaking game.
Your lol-ganker IS playing the game.
Perhaps you should roll the window up or upgrade your school bus. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
763
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:44:00 -
[185] - Quote
Reislier wrote:lol-ganking is the issue.
The high sec people have problems with one kind of ganker.
A lol-gank is a pipe bomb tossed in the window of a school bus. A dazzling display of skill and hard work. /spit
A ganker should play the damn game. Be a hitman with a purpose and take real cold hard risks in the freaking game. haha
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
763
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:48:00 -
[186] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread. No in that other thread he realized he was losing the argument and went into "lol guyz I was just trolling ju" mode to try and salvage some self respect.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Hyacinthous
Sibyl Cadre
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:48:00 -
[187] - Quote
Set it up so that criminals/pirates that enter high sec and try to commit more crime will not ONLY be followed and attacked by concord or faction navies, but they will also be PODDED.
This will add in a bit more fear for the fearless clowns that think they can do whatever they want.
Also, set it up further so that anyone that commits crime in highsec is flagged by all of the factions, making ALL of highsec space lethal to them. Pirates shouldn't be allowed to roam Lawful space, that's what the "space police" are for.
How about this: Concord chases, Faction navies destroy and pod.
Hell set it up so that there is an R next to criminals names for the Reward you can receive either from player bounties or concord/faction navy bounties for blowing up their ships and pods or capturing them.
EVE could be such a better space game than it is now, too bad it is burdened by fools and idiots like the goons who ruin the game entirely.
We can only hope that those in CCP who have the truest intentions will hold strong against the heretics that want to corrupt and destroy their game/game mechanics for their own personal gains. |
Raziphan Rebular
Crypsus Tetsuo Shio
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:56:00 -
[188] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote:Set it up so that criminals/pirates that enter high sec and try to commit more crime will not ONLY be followed and attacked by concord or faction navies, but they will also be PODDED.
This will add in a bit more fear for the fearless clowns that think they can do whatever they want.
Also, set it up further so that anyone that commits crime in highsec is flagged by all of the factions, making ALL of highsec space lethal to them. Pirates shouldn't be allowed to roam Lawful space, that's what the "space police" are for.
How about this: Concord chases, Faction navies destroy and pod.
Maybe next you can ask for concord to mine for you. |
Hyacinthous
Sibyl Cadre
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:59:00 -
[189] - Quote
Raziphan Rebular wrote:Hyacinthous wrote:Set it up so that criminals/pirates that enter high sec and try to commit more crime will not ONLY be followed and attacked by concord or faction navies, but they will also be PODDED.
This will add in a bit more fear for the fearless clowns that think they can do whatever they want.
Also, set it up further so that anyone that commits crime in highsec is flagged by all of the factions, making ALL of highsec space lethal to them. Pirates shouldn't be allowed to roam Lawful space, that's what the "space police" are for.
How about this: Concord chases, Faction navies destroy and pod. Maybe next you can ask for concord to mine for you.
Try harder, I don't mine and due to dicks like you I don't even play so just stfu chump.
Hehe :D
P.S. you are a loser |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
765
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 17:59:00 -
[190] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote:Try harder, I don't mine and due to dicks like you I don't even play so just stfu chump.
Hehe :D
P.S. you are a loser Mission accomplished!
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Hyacinthous
Sibyl Cadre
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 18:01:00 -
[191] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Hyacinthous wrote:Try harder, I don't mine and due to dicks like you I don't even play so just stfu chump.
Hehe :D
P.S. you are a loser Mission accomplished!
What a loss of more time in your worthless life?
No, i'm not mad i'm actually having fun. You guys make this so easy.
Furthermore, It's not that YOU are the cause, but just one of the millions of reasons. Besides, I have More important, Fun games to play. BF3, Skyrim.
Thank you very much.
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 18:11:00 -
[192] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Until Blizzard starts making a Space PVP game and a MMOFPS, CCP has got it covered and should try to remember WHY they're not taking a huge plunge like every other PVE fantasy mmo on that chart.
If that day ever shows up I'll be on the first ones to pay for a beta test account and sure on the first ones to log on the live servers.
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Reislier
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 18:13:00 -
[193] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:
Your lol-ganker IS playing the game.
Perhaps you should roll the window up or upgrade your school bus.
I know he is.. Wimps in space. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
765
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 18:16:00 -
[194] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote:What a loss of more time in your worthless life? Nope. Running people like you out of my internet spaceship game is never a waste of time.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
299
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 18:39:00 -
[195] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought.
WoW had 12 million subscribers on the beginning of the year. Now it has little over 10 million. And the downward trend continues.. Rated ARG for Pirates. **** you. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
221
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 19:42:00 -
[196] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote: Besides, I have More important games to play.
/derp This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 19:48:00 -
[197] - Quote
What is it they say?
In WOW they'll take the cookies you bring and baby-feed it to you. In EVE they'll take your cookies, eat it themselves and than laugh at you for bringing one in the first place.
This is why EVE should not become WOW. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Zen Sarum
Hour of Reckoning Dee Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 19:52:00 -
[198] - Quote
EVE is not ..that game..
Do not even talk about them on the same level or in the same breath
Also ..you should now go play WOW..
|
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
236
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 19:56:00 -
[199] - Quote
I would like to remind eve players that while wow does have about 9+ million subs now they managed to lose like 1.7m million in the last year. While eve still manages to grow despite the emo rage quit and how featuless the carbonization drought was.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
776
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:01:00 -
[200] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote: the carbonization drought I like this phrase
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:24:00 -
[201] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically?
Is this the plan?
The 2 paragraphs in the OP that nobody understood.
I bolded the key question.
|
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:28:00 -
[202] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote: Try harder, I don't mine and due to dicks like you I don't even play so just stfu chump.
Hehe :D
P.S. you are a loser
You don't even play?
Then who gives a **** what you think.
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:29:00 -
[203] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread. No in that other thread he realized he was losing the argument and went into "lol guyz I was just trolling ju" mode to try and salvage some self respect. It is hard to admit you were trolled isn't it. That was my "I'm new here introduction". You fell for it. In fact you repeatedly fall prey to my trolls, you just don't see it. |
FeralShadow
Black Storm Cartel
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:57:00 -
[204] - Quote
Didn't read all these posts, don't have the time.
OP I certainly see your point though I'm going to say that I think the majority of the problem arises from newbie characters not being properly informed prior to getting out into the "big bad world"
However, I did it and learned and made myself better, there's nothing stopping other people. But, I'm the exception. I like playing dangerously and "fending for myself" so to say. A lot of casual players don't.
This is going to get flamed to hell, but what if new characters have two "tutorial" systems where the players learn everything from flying to scams to market to jumping to missions, and when they leave those systems they can't come back. They know the risks before they leave, and when they leave, they will have to look out for themselves. The tutorial systems will be super rare on resources (like two asteroids to practice mining on) and since you can't enter the system people wouldn't be able to get in there to make money off the market, and people in the system likely won't want to stick around because there would be an SP cap (say, 2mil sp before you're auto-moved out of the systems).
I think it'd solve a lot of problems. It'd give people a way to really learn the game without players trying to scam them out of the gate while keeping the viability of the game.
As to the wider point of casual gamers not wanting to fight for their life every day... well, that's kind-of the premise of the game. If you had 10% of the systems that you couldn't suicide gank in or anything, you'd have 500 miners and missioners in each one of those systems because they couldn't be suicide ganked, or people sitting in there getting their SP up in a perfectly safe environment. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to have safe areas, but it needs to be done in a way so that people who play there are SEVERELY limited. The rest of us have to play dangerously and watch our backs, why do they not?
Edit: The solution to the vast majority of peoples' problems is to fly with friends, but lots of "casual" players in eve don't seem to want to do that. I don't get it. |
Cipher Jones
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 20:59:00 -
[205] - Quote
WoW hate tears are the best non New Eden tears there are.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Cipher Jones
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:01:00 -
[206] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:Didn't read all these posts, don't have the time.
OP I certainly see your point though I'm going to say that I think the majority of the problem arises from newbie characters not being properly informed prior to getting out into the "big bad world"
However, I did it and learned and made myself better, there's nothing stopping other people. But, I'm the exception. I like playing dangerously and "fending for myself" so to say. A lot of casual players don't.
This is going to get flamed to hell, but what if new characters have two "tutorial" systems where the players learn everything from flying to scams to market to jumping to missions, and when they leave those systems they can't come back. They know the risks before they leave, and when they leave, they will have to look out for themselves. The tutorial systems will be super rare on resources (like two asteroids to practice mining on) and since you can't enter the system people wouldn't be able to get in there to make money off the market, and people in the system likely won't want to stick around because there would be an SP cap (say, 2mil sp before you're auto-moved out of the systems).
I think it'd solve a lot of problems. It'd give people a way to really learn the game without players trying to scam them out of the gate while keeping the viability of the game.
As to the wider point of casual gamers not wanting to fight for their life every day... well, that's kind-of the premise of the game. If you had 10% of the systems that you couldn't suicide gank in or anything, you'd have 500 miners and missioners in each one of those systems because they couldn't be suicide ganked, or people sitting in there getting their SP up in a perfectly safe environment. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to have safe areas, but it needs to be done in a way so that people who play there are SEVERELY limited. The rest of us have to play dangerously and watch our backs, why do they not?
Edit: The solution to the vast majority of peoples' problems is to fly with friends, but lots of "casual" players in eve don't seem to want to do that. I don't get it.
Like pre-searing in Guild Wars. Brilliant.
This would certainly help with the high attrition rate.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Richard Aiel
Point of No Return Waterboard
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:01:00 -
[207] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:WoW hate tears are the best non New Eden tears there are.
I always love how in EVERY MMO EXCEPT WOW 90% of the time there are threads all about how much WoW sucks lol "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
79
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:07:00 -
[208] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:WoW hate tears are the best non New Eden tears there are. I always love how in EVERY MMO forum, INCLUDING WOW's, 90% of the time there are threads all about how much WoW sucks lol
Fixed. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:09:00 -
[209] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:If you had 10% of the systems that you couldn't suicide gank in or anything, you'd have 500 miners and missioners in each one of those systems because they couldn't be suicide ganked And the first rule of war would apply. Dec 'em and kill 'em. The demand for the resources in those systems would force them fight each other. Unable to gank, wardecs would be the order of the day.
Which is why we also need corp member lockdown on wardecs and automatic expulsion from NPC corps.
And you know, the more I read from the "do nothing" crowd the more I am convinced that a lot of the argument against anti-SG is because it will need other changes to wardec mechanics etc. and THIS is what worries people more. Because while they expouse the "lawlessness" of a gank, they don't want their own assets put at risk if wardec mechanics were simplified.
What I am saying makes sense when you look at the number of nullsec members involved in the gank/wardec mechanic topics. Why would they?
Quote:or people sitting in there getting their SP up in a perfectly safe environment. Which they do anyway. I have 4 alts training perfectly safe - in station. I'll bring them out when they're "ready".
|
ElQuirko
Boxxed Up Industries
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:13:00 -
[210] - Quote
TL;DR.
If you want safety, go play WoW. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:15:00 -
[211] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:TL;DR.
If you want safety, go play WoW. Hahahahahohohohoho. That's funny. Really. It is. Seriously. Yes. Funny.
Come here often do you? |
Intakani Genntelle
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:17:00 -
[212] - Quote
People who play EVE are notoriously closed-minded and anti-social. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
785
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:20:00 -
[213] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri is an obvious troll alt anyways, she even admitted it in another thread. No in that other thread he realized he was losing the argument and went into "lol guyz I was just trolling ju" mode to try and salvage some self respect. It is hard to admit you were trolled isn't it. That was my "I'm new here introduction". You fell for it. In fact you repeatedly fall prey to my trolls, you just don't see it. If you were actually trolling I might feel bad. Since you're not you should feel bad.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:21:00 -
[214] - Quote
Ok Suri, I fully agree with you on wardec mechanics. They need to be fixed (IMO) to make EVE less safe, as opposed to more safe if you simply have ISK (no skill required).
However, I would still never agree to a safe zone for regular pilots (though again, the idea mentioned by someone a few posts above about intro systems... I could get behind). |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:29:00 -
[215] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Ok Suri, I fully agree with you on wardec mechanics. They need to be fixed (IMO) to make EVE less safe, as opposed to more safe if you simply have ISK (no skill required).
However, I would still never agree to a safe zone for regular pilots (though again, the idea mentioned by someone a few posts above about intro systems... I could get behind). tbh I don't like the concept of safe regions at all. It has been bought forward as an "option" but I don't like it for the obvious reasons.
What I'd like to see is
1) Auto expulsion of NPC after n days as a priority (unleashing hundreds of players into the "real world" - inc bots) 2) A major fix to wardec mechanics so it's much easier to do but also so it can't be abused (and I have a few ideas on this).
The neccessity to gank for economic/strategic/tactical reasons is better catered for.
All that's left is to decide then whether SG should be allowed for "gigglez" because that should be the only reason to do so.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
785
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:32:00 -
[216] - Quote
K Suri wrote:All that's left is to decide then whether SG should be allowed for "gigglez" because that should be the only reason to do so. Why?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:42:00 -
[217] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:All that's left is to decide then whether SG should be allowed for "gigglez" because that should be the only reason to do so. Why? Because, as we've seen, massive alliances could bring carnage against hundreds, if not thousands of smaller players for absolutely no reason. This needs to be bought under scrutiny.
If you can't justify an economic/strategic or tactical reason for it then wtf should it be allowed? It's so unbalanced on this point that it beggars belief. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
52
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:42:00 -
[218] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Ok Suri, I fully agree with you on wardec mechanics. They need to be fixed (IMO) to make EVE less safe, as opposed to more safe if you simply have ISK (no skill required).
However, I would still never agree to a safe zone for regular pilots (though again, the idea mentioned by someone a few posts above about intro systems... I could get behind). tbh I don't like the concept of safe regions at all. It has been bought forward as an "option" but I don't like it for the obvious reasons. What I'd like to see is 1) Auto expulsion of NPC after n days as a priority (unleashing hundreds of players into the "real world" - inc bots) 2) A major fix to wardec mechanics so it's much easier to do but also so it can't be abused (and I have a few ideas on this). The neccessity to gank for economic/strategic/tactical reasons is better catered for. All that's left is to decide then whether SG should be allowed for "gigglez" because that should be the only reason to do so.
Time marches on yet your bad posting remains. Luckily the people who are stupid enough to agree with you will never have the political clout to pull your dumb ideas off. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:49:00 -
[219] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Ok Suri, I fully agree with you on wardec mechanics. They need to be fixed (IMO) to make EVE less safe, as opposed to more safe if you simply have ISK (no skill required).
However, I would still never agree to a safe zone for regular pilots (though again, the idea mentioned by someone a few posts above about intro systems... I could get behind). tbh I don't like the concept of safe regions at all. It has been bought forward as an "option" but I don't like it for the obvious reasons. What I'd like to see is 1) Auto expulsion of NPC after n days as a priority (unleashing hundreds of players into the "real world" - inc bots) 2) A major fix to wardec mechanics so it's much easier to do but also so it can't be abused (and I have a few ideas on this). The neccessity to gank for economic/strategic/tactical reasons is better catered for. All that's left is to decide then whether SG should be allowed for "gigglez" because that should be the only reason to do so. Time marches on yet your bad posting remains. Luckily the people who are stupid enough to agree with you will never have the political clout to pull your dumb ideas off. And you've got proven techniques on how to get things done? Linky?
"You're dumb, you're an idiot" has obviously worked wonders for you. How about go train Intelligence and Diplomacy to 5 and come back and tell me what I'm doing that's so bad. Until then stfu. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
787
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:51:00 -
[220] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Because, as we've seen, massive alliances could bring carnage against hundreds, if not thousands of smaller players for absolutely no reason. This needs to be bought under scrutiny. Why?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
787
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:52:00 -
[221] - Quote
K Suri wrote:"You're dumb, you're an idiot" has obviously worked wonders for you. How about go train Intelligence and Diplomacy to 5 and come back and tell me what I'm doing that's so bad. Until then stfu. This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
52
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:54:00 -
[222] - Quote
K Suri wrote: And you've got proven techniques on how to get things done? Linky?
"You're dumb, you're an idiot" has obviously worked wonders for you. How about go train Intelligence and Diplomacy to 5 and come back and tell me what I'm doing that's so bad. Until then stfu.
You exist and you sperg worthless trash, and when people point out how incredibly stupid you are your answer is LOL I TROLL U.
Get out.
Also for linky, click the Dev Blogs button. Thanks. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:54:00 -
[223] - Quote
Look at all the retarded pubbies who want EVE to be easier and safer. Harden the fuck up or get the fuck out. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 21:57:00 -
[224] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it.
Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:00:00 -
[225] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it. Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh.
My opinion is that you should get out, which I think was quite clear. Also your general understanding of Null politics appears to be as strong as your grasp on game mechanics, grats. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:00:00 -
[226] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote: And you've got proven techniques on how to get things done? Linky?
"You're dumb, you're an idiot" has obviously worked wonders for you. How about go train Intelligence and Diplomacy to 5 and come back and tell me what I'm doing that's so bad. Until then stfu.
You exist and you sperg worthless trash, and when people point out how incredibly stupid you are your answer is LOL I TROLL U. Get out. Also for linky, click the Dev Blogs button. Thanks. 52 likes and you been here how long? I been here 2 days.
Reckon you got some growing up to do. Getting baited like you are is good experience for when you do. |
Jita Alt666
496
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:01:00 -
[227] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it. Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh.
Another 4 day old character with lots to say.
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:03:00 -
[228] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh. My opinion is that you should get out, which I think was quite clear. Also your general understanding of Null politics appears to be as strong as your grasp on game mechanics, grats. Null politics? This is a topic about suicide ganking in highsec.
Btw. How goes the fun against testies? You're so fn bored with nullsec you started shooting blues. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:05:00 -
[229] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it. Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh. Another 4 day old character with lots to say. And you are? Oh. An alt? Way to go Einstein. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:06:00 -
[230] - Quote
K Suri wrote:KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh. My opinion is that you should get out, which I think was quite clear. Also your general understanding of Null politics appears to be as strong as your grasp on game mechanics, grats. Null politics? This is a topic about suicide ganking in highsec. Btw. How goes the fun against testies? You're so fn bored with nullsec you started shooting blues.
And your ignorance shines through yet again. Test is BFF with FA, not that I'd expect a miner to know this. Also, shooting blues is fun and gives us something to do in between suicide ganks.
Amazingly, we enjoy losing ships in this PVP Internet Spaceship Game. Whoever would have guessed. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
790
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:06:00 -
[231] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it.. Since you aspire to be a forum troll let me give you some advice. When all of your threads devolve into you calling other people names you're doing it wrong.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Lens Thirring
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:17:00 -
[232] - Quote
K Suri wrote: And you've got proven techniques on how to get things done? Linky?
It's not clear that anything actually needs to be done, at least not along the lines you are proposing.
Hi-sec is extremely safe. New players are aware that there are risks, and they can quickly recover any losses. They are not all psychologically underdeveloped infants so we don't need to be condescending towards them.
Eve involves a number of complex undocumented game systems, which are interrelated in subtle ways, and controlled through inconsistent and baroque interfaces. The learning curve is famously steep and new players get lost because the sandbox doesn't provide a clear direction. These are the sources of the intimidation that might drive new players away. I doubt that gankers and war-decs have much to do with it. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:27:00 -
[233] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:JitaJane wrote:Malcanis wrote:K Suri wrote:Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?
A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.
Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.
Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.
Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?
Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.
Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?
Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?
Food for thought. So your business plan for EVE is for CCP to throw their existing playerbase under a bus and try to compete head-to-head with Blizzard in their own back yard? Man, I don't see anything that could go wrong with this plan! QEN says 80% of players are in high. So which player base gets thrown under the bus??? My personal experience is that every 0.0 player has a bare minimum of 2 characters in hi-sec. So - that player base. QEN did not have data on that so we'll have to take your personal experience. So then in your experience what makes HiSec so SuperAwesomeCool that you have twice as many characters there as in null? And hey diven that it is twice as cool why do you play in null at all??? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:30:00 -
[234] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:This is a bit disingenuous considering you were calling everybody who disagreed with you a moron yesterday.
Oh wait. FA. Goon. Goon. FA. Duh. My opinion is that you should get out, which I think was quite clear. Also your general understanding of Null politics appears to be as strong as your grasp on game mechanics, grats. Null politics? This is a topic about suicide ganking in highsec. Btw. How goes the fun against testies? You're so fn bored with nullsec you started shooting blues. And your ignorance shines through yet again. Test is BFF with FA, not that I'd expect a miner to know this. Also, shooting blues is fun and gives us something to do in between suicide ganks. Amazingly, we enjoy losing ships in this PVP Internet Spaceship Game. Whoever would have guessed. Miner? My ignorance?
Perhaps I oughta jump to my clone in 6VDT and say hi. |
Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:32:00 -
[235] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni? I read the Eve-Uni wiki. The ENTIRE THING. It's a good information resource. BUT. I'll be damned if I have to follow fascist laws about what I'm allowed to do or not because some troll has wardecced the corp. Besides, who wants to join Eve Hogwarts if it's possible to start being a Death Eater right away? I have no idea who Agony Unleashed is, but I haven't seen a single recruitment ad anywhere. Just read their wiki: ''Well, our ideal candidate would have at least 10 million SP in frigates''. See, that's where it fails. You need to grab the noobs before they spend 5 months alone in highsec and get bored. If this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=31172Is serious (I wouldn't put my money on it) it's actually a great step towards that theoretical alliance.
Just FYI, those are the requirement for actually joining Agony the corporation. We also run PvP classes for the larger EVE community, which don't have those same restrictions, and don't involve joining Agony. Agony isn't a training corporation, it's a 0.0 PvP corporation that offers training courses.
http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php/Agony_PVP_University
is the wiki page for our public classes. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:33:00 -
[236] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:Do you mean that ONE moron that doesn't actually have an opinion to disagree with? Bravo you for for supporting it.. Since you aspire to be a forum troll let me give you some advice. When all of your threads devolve into you calling other people names you're doing it wrong. And since you are a forum troll, I'll take that advice on board.
btw. Your FA boyfriend FA started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
140
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:37:00 -
[237] - Quote
Gealla wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote:Played WOW and amongst the many MMOs I have played, it must have been the most boring. You virtually complete 10 Missions or more per hour, the graphics suck, player interaction is at zero.
Also, "casual PVP" in EVE? Arenas? No, thanks. We have a whole hangar full of training ships for PVP training, what would we need arenas for?
You'd just take away from the nice people that actually organize Fight Clubs in EVE as a player event. (And earn their share by doing so...)
I hazard that you never made end game content in Wow? Organising raids, leading them, organising guilds to be able to raid and the player interaction involved in that (not to mention politics) is just as intensive as in Eve, although at a smaller scale (10's to 100's not 1000's) There's not that much difference, the same type of player who will run an alliance or FC a fleet in Eve, will most likely run a successful guild or RL succesful raids in WoW. It's the players who aren't interested in these areas that differ the most, in WoW they do areana's and PVP and trash talk in trade. In Eve they suicide gank and trash talk in local....... oh wait not that different
Actually I made it to end content, which was no big deal, because I only played it at all because of a few friends that invited me. (The current record to reach level 80 is 13 hours I think. If Athene still holds it... It took me much longer, but, well...)
In addition I have led "successful guilds" in LOTRO, AION, DAOC...
No, it is just WOW in particular that I totally dislike. There is just no true challenge on the way to "end content". |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
795
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:49:00 -
[238] - Quote
K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Krios Ahzek
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:50:00 -
[239] - Quote
Christina Bamar wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni? I read the Eve-Uni wiki. The ENTIRE THING. It's a good information resource. BUT. I'll be damned if I have to follow fascist laws about what I'm allowed to do or not because some troll has wardecced the corp. Besides, who wants to join Eve Hogwarts if it's possible to start being a Death Eater right away? I have no idea who Agony Unleashed is, but I haven't seen a single recruitment ad anywhere. Just read their wiki: ''Well, our ideal candidate would have at least 10 million SP in frigates''. See, that's where it fails. You need to grab the noobs before they spend 5 months alone in highsec and get bored. If this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=31172Is serious (I wouldn't put my money on it) it's actually a great step towards that theoretical alliance. Just FYI, those are the requirement for actually joining Agony the corporation. We also run PvP classes for the larger EVE community, which don't have those same restrictions, and don't involve joining Agony. Agony isn't a training corporation, it's a 0.0 PvP corporation that offers training courses. http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php/Agony_PVP_Universityis the wiki page for our public classes.
I already attend an university during the day, why would I want to join a space university ? Also, I'd have to pay 40 million ISK for the class? Sorry, I think I'd prefer learning everything the hard way.
Less space school, more corps that find ways to make newbies matter. I don't get why every corp has SP requirements and such when it's been proven multiple times that tackling rifters can actually make a difference.
Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
Lana leng
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:53:00 -
[240] - Quote
I think that someone is already making something that looks like EVE and feels more like WoW, it's called Starwars: The Old Republic.
So what could possibly CCP win by going in this direction? Subscriptions? My bet would be that they will get trampled by Blizzard or other Bioware likes while loosing their historical player base. Moreover, SciFi games are not half as popular as Medfan, so I don't even know if there is enough room on the market of the so-called "casual gamers" for another big space MMO beside starwars...and not speaking about the WH40K project that should drain all the kiddies if done correctly.
|
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 22:56:00 -
[241] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out).
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
104
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:06:00 -
[242] - Quote
Wow is not as "safe" as people think. The only thing that is different is that when you die, you don't lose your stuff.
PVP in WOW, having PVP servers, is rough if you get corpse and graveyard camped. Your only hope is that someone with higher skills comes along and distracts them - or log in an alternate.
WoW suffers heavily from the "he who has no life wins" principle meaning that if you don't have time to raid constantly and get all twinked up with epics, you will get spanked in PVP. EvE is actually more friendly to casual players this way because you can spend an hour hitting an exploration site and come away with a couple of officer or deadspace modules.
The offline skill training that WoW does not have makes skilling up in profession much harder - making a million heavy leathers to skill up leatherworking.... get the idea.
I don't think that EvE has to be WoWed up to get the kind of player base that Blizzard has, but it could benefit from better mechanics that make it harder to get ganked.
Let's face it, it's the local in 0.0 and the use of gates. The gates are killing the game, because the people with the least in skills and poorest of playstyles are facilitated and rewarded by gate mechanics.
Eliminate these gates and let ships dial in a system to system warp "Star Trek Style" and this would retain players. For most players, when you run out of things to do in high sec, and you have blobs of griefers waiting for you in low and 0.0, what's the point? People want to be challenged, not insta-raeped. Get rid of gates and the warp bubble will be displaced by the combat probe and there is something that really matters: a chance.
If WoW had permaloss and all of the major choke points had gankers, it would not have 11 million subscribers. If EvE gets rids of choke points, and being already large enough that there are not enough griefbears to cover every inch of space, people will stop getting bored in high sec and leaving.
|
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
116
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:11:00 -
[243] - Quote
WoW also dpeends upon developed content rather than sand box.
Also WoW is in decline while EvE is constantly growing.... I have actually Un-subbed my acounts, We need more to do, not more to wear. E-mail me when CCP has decent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term goals. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:13:00 -
[244] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out).
Relax, I have only called YOU an idiot in the threads I have posted in recently. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Krios Ahzek
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:14:00 -
[245] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out).
I'm beginning to like these forums. Tasty drama.
Although... I wonder, what do people actually talk about here when there's no huge suicide ganking campaign? Villain. Hero. Warrior. Lover. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:21:00 -
[246] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Let's face it, it's the local in 0.0 and the use of gates. The gates are killing the game, because the people with the least in skills and poorest of playstyles are facilitated and rewarded by gate mechanics.
Eliminate these gates and let ships dial in a system to system warp "Star Trek Style" and this would retain players. For most players, when you run out of things to do in high sec, and you have blobs of griefers waiting for you in low and 0.0, what's the point? People want to be challenged, not insta-raeped. Get rid of gates and the warp bubble will be displaced by the combat probe and there is something that really matters: a chance.
If WoW had permaloss and all of the major choke points had gankers, it would not have 11 million subscribers. If EvE gets rids of choke points, and being already large enough that there are not enough griefbears to cover every inch of space, people will stop getting bored in high sec and leaving.
Rings true to me. |
Krios Ahzek
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:25:00 -
[247] - Quote
If there were no gates we'd never see anyone, ever.
If they remove gates, they better add a 3D 10 AU range, instantly updated, scanner/map of the solar system that you can use to warp to anyone or anything within 10 AU. There's no way I'd want to use probes all the time. I have no tears to cry. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:34:00 -
[248] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out). I'm beginning to like these forums. Tasty drama. Although... I wonder, what do people actually talk about here when there's no huge suicide ganking campaign? And more to the point, if it's so "right" and so "normal" why IS it being talked about so much? |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:35:00 -
[249] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out). Relax, I have only called YOU an idiot in the threads I have posted in recently. Gimme a kiss sweetie. You're an absolute treasure. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:36:00 -
[250] - Quote
K Suri wrote:KrakizBad wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out). Relax, I have only called YOU an idiot in the threads I have posted in recently. Gimme a kiss sweetie. You're an absolute treasure.
Don't want turbonigg** aids, thanks. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
|
Krios Ahzek
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:38:00 -
[251] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out). I'm beginning to like these forums. Tasty drama. Although... I wonder, what do people actually talk about here when there's no huge suicide ganking campaign? And more to the point, if it's so "right" and so "normal" why IS it being talked about so much?
I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. I have no tears to cry. |
Russell Casey
One Ton Reverberation Project
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:48:00 -
[252] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:WoW also dpeends upon developed content rather than sand box.
Also WoW is in decline while EvE is constantly growing....
I thought EVE died last summer. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:50:00 -
[253] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. That's one view despite the fact that strategic is a misnomer. That was a Goons justfication for it so they don't get their ass kicked for griefing.
Someone once said that Goons have misjudged CCP here. They have MADE suicide ganking a hot topic and their intent, if there ever was one, may backfire on them. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 23:59:00 -
[254] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. That's one view despite the fact that strategic is a misnomer. That was a Goons justfication for it so they don't get their ass kicked for griefing. Someone once said that Goons have misjudged CCP here. They have MADE suicide ganking a hot topic and their intent, if there ever was one, may backfire on them. Except it isn't griefing.
Per CCPs definition, it is nearly impossible to grief a group of people as large as all ice miners in Gall space.
In fact, as they are providing a way out (moving to another empire), Goons are definitely not griefing.
Ugh I'm defending Goons... I feel dirty. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:07:00 -
[255] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. That's one view despite the fact that strategic is a misnomer. That was a Goons justfication for it so they don't get their ass kicked for griefing. Someone once said that Goons have misjudged CCP here. They have MADE suicide ganking a hot topic and their intent, if there ever was one, may backfire on them. Except it isn't griefing. Per CCPs definition, it is nearly impossible to grief a group of people as large as all ice miners in Gall space. In fact, as they are providing a way out (moving to another empire), Goons are definitely not griefing. Ugh I'm defending Goons... I feel dirty. If I were to buy a Mack and mine in Bramiel (sic) I would get popped by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon.
How many times do I need to do this before it's called griefing as per CCP's "rules"? And if moving locations is a defense to deny griefing can I go to another Gall ice field and mine ice? I bet not.
The rule is ambiguous and "justifying" the campaign by using the wording of the definition should ALSO allow for the interpretation of griefing for the ganked. Does that make sense? |
Krios Ahzek
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:08:00 -
[256] - Quote
They doubled gallente ice prices, as long as they bought some before to profit from it, it's not griefing but a valid gameplay maneuver. I have no tears to cry. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:10:00 -
[257] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. That's one view despite the fact that strategic is a misnomer. That was a Goons justfication for it so they don't get their ass kicked for griefing. Someone once said that Goons have misjudged CCP here. They have MADE suicide ganking a hot topic and their intent, if there ever was one, may backfire on them. Except it isn't griefing. Per CCPs definition, it is nearly impossible to grief a group of people as large as all ice miners in Gall space. In fact, as they are providing a way out (moving to another empire), Goons are definitely not griefing. Ugh I'm defending Goons... I feel dirty. If I were to buy a Mack and mine in Bramiel (sic) I would get popped by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon. How many times do I need to do this before it's called griefing as per CCP's "rules"? And if moving locations is a defense to deny griefing can I go to another Gall ice field and mine ice? I bet not. The rule is ambiguous and "justifying" the campaign by using the wording of the definition should ALSO allow for the interpretation of griefing for the ganked. Does that make sense? If you were to continue going to the Gall ice fields after being ganked over and over, you're either stupid or a bot. Especially because Goons are quite vocal about their campaign.
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:16:00 -
[258] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:They doubled gallente ice prices, as long as they bought some before to profit from it, it's not griefing but a valid gameplay maneuver. That's my point. I'll explain.
What if I decided to go after a rich player over and over again?
Does the very fact that there is salvage preclude a griefing petition because I can simply say it's for economic reasons - as per the CCP definition. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:19:00 -
[259] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:K Suri wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:I'd say it's because it's the only large strategic operation that's currently happening in game. That's one view despite the fact that strategic is a misnomer. That was a Goons justfication for it so they don't get their ass kicked for griefing. Someone once said that Goons have misjudged CCP here. They have MADE suicide ganking a hot topic and their intent, if there ever was one, may backfire on them. Except it isn't griefing. Per CCPs definition, it is nearly impossible to grief a group of people as large as all ice miners in Gall space. In fact, as they are providing a way out (moving to another empire), Goons are definitely not griefing. Ugh I'm defending Goons... I feel dirty. If I were to buy a Mack and mine in Bramiel (sic) I would get popped by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon. If I were to buy another Mack and mine in Bramiel I would get popped again by a Goon. How many times do I need to do this before it's called griefing as per CCP's "rules"? And if moving locations is a defense to deny griefing can I go to another Gall ice field and mine ice? I bet not. The rule is ambiguous and "justifying" the campaign by using the wording of the definition should ALSO allow for the interpretation of griefing for the ganked. Does that make sense? If you were to continue going to the Gall ice fields after being ganked over and over, you're either stupid or a bot. Especially because Goons are quite vocal about their campaign. I'm splitting hairs to a degree but the definition doesn't have "stupidity" as an option to justify griefing.
What if were simply new and didn't understand the mechanics or use the forums? How does someone make the call on "stupid" versus "new" versus "ignorant". Is it part of the policy?
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:44:00 -
[260] - Quote
As with the law, ignorance is no excuse.
Goons have provided a way out of being their target, and a very reasonable way out (game wise). It is not griefing. |
|
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:48:00 -
[261] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:As with the law, ignorance is no excuse.
Goons have provided a way out of being their target, and a very reasonable way out (game wise). It is not griefing. I used to think like this too. |
FeralShadow
Black Storm Cartel
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 00:56:00 -
[262] - Quote
Didn't read any of the posts again except a few but I have also thought about the automatic expulsion from NPC corps after N days. It could even be into another NPC corp, but this secondary corp will be able to be war decced. The first one is for new players, the second one is for people who are experienced. This will likely cause a massive amount of people to make 1 man corps, but the point is the same: They are deccable, and thus, not perfectly safe. Just like everybody else. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 01:08:00 -
[263] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:Didn't read any of the posts again except a few but I have also thought about the automatic expulsion from NPC corps after N days. It could even be into another NPC corp, but this secondary corp will be able to be war decced. The first one is for new players, the second one is for people who are experienced. This will likely cause a massive amount of people to make 1 man corps, but the point is the same: They are deccable, and thus, not perfectly safe. Just like everybody else.
I am actually wondering if a deccable NPC corp would be cool.
I know that it's a griefbear wet dream but once, in noob camp, a couple of corpies got ganked and we put a BC and 2 cruisers together and gave the campers considerable hell.
A good time was had by all.
But like any good idea, people will wreck it. Democracy for example.
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
848
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 01:21:00 -
[264] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:K Suri wrote:btw. Your FA boyfriend started the name calling. Have you chatted him for name calling yet? Well? Have you? If I were to witness him doing it in every thread he posted in I would call him out on it. Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out). Are you eight years old? I have a young nephew that often uses the "but he started it!" defense when he's in trouble for acting out.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 02:16:00 -
[265] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Christina Bamar wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:What EVE needs is a Goonswarm/TEST like alliance that puts rifters in newbie hands and teaches them how to live in Nullsec, but one that would actually recruit newbies off of the recruitment channel. you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni? I read the Eve-Uni wiki. The ENTIRE THING. It's a good information resource. BUT. I'll be damned if I have to follow fascist laws about what I'm allowed to do or not because some troll has wardecced the corp. Besides, who wants to join Eve Hogwarts if it's possible to start being a Death Eater right away? I have no idea who Agony Unleashed is, but I haven't seen a single recruitment ad anywhere. Just read their wiki: ''Well, our ideal candidate would have at least 10 million SP in frigates''. See, that's where it fails. You need to grab the noobs before they spend 5 months alone in highsec and get bored. If this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=31172Is serious (I wouldn't put my money on it) it's actually a great step towards that theoretical alliance. Just FYI, those are the requirement for actually joining Agony the corporation. We also run PvP classes for the larger EVE community, which don't have those same restrictions, and don't involve joining Agony. Agony isn't a training corporation, it's a 0.0 PvP corporation that offers training courses. http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php/Agony_PVP_Universityis the wiki page for our public classes. I already attend an university during the day, why would I want to join a space university ? Also, I'd have to pay 40 million ISK for the class? Sorry, I think I'd prefer learning everything the hard way. Less space school, more corps that find ways to make newbies matter. I don't get why every corp has SP requirements and such when it's been proven multiple times that tackling rifters can actually make a difference.
Eh, do what you like. We offer classes as a service for people who want them. Considering we've filled every class we've run for the past 6 years it would seem that some people do see the value (it's actually 20 mil for a basic class). It's hard for a brand new player to get good advice/instruction from experienced PvPers, much less to go out on a roam with them, much less while being able to stay in their current corp.
The reason a lot of corps (ours included) have things like SP requirements is that it takes time and effort to bring up new members. We only accept so many people at a time, and try to keep a good balance of old-timers to newer people (talking about new to the corp, not new to the game). Each time we accept a new trial we're dedicating a certain amount of time to bringing them into the fold, and we want to have a certain amount of faith that they'll still be around in 3, 6, 12 months. The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of new players come and go, and your chances of someone sticking around who has 10m SP are much higher than that guy with 1m SP who just joined the game. If you're a large corp you can probably absorb this cost without too much trouble, but if you're a small or tightly-knit corp this sort of heavy turnover is killer. New players take the most effort to bring on, and are the most likely to leave. You can either dedicate more time and effort to training up brand new recruits, or you can be selective in who you take. For most mature corps the later is much easier and more consistent.
|
Ayuren Aakiwa
The Multinational Company.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 02:42:00 -
[266] - Quote
@ The OP
You are dumb |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
857
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 02:58:00 -
[267] - Quote
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:@ The OP
You are dumb Don't be too hard on him. We don't want him to get discouraged and stop providing us with so much entertainment.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
K Suri
Red Gooey Bananas
29
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 03:23:00 -
[268] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:@ The OP
You are dumb Don't be too hard on him. We don't want him to get discouraged and stop providing us with so much entertainment. Like HIS post is going to have a massive impact on my wellbeing.
Kinda proves my point actually. He's an Eve player with THAT level of intellect? |
Elric Astrius
MarSec Industries Gold Star Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 10:32:00 -
[269] - Quote
K Suri wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:@ The OP
You are dumb Don't be too hard on him. We don't want him to get discouraged and stop providing us with so much entertainment. Like HIS post is going to have a massive impact on my wellbeing. Kinda proves my point actually. He's an Eve player with THAT level of intellect?
I must say after reading 14 pages of this discussion that you are right on multiple levels when it comes to the intellect, however just because a player lacks intellegence doesnt prevent them from functioning at a basic level. Perhaps the main argument about the comparison with WOW is that with the nerfs people are complaining that CCP is trying to steer their PvE in the same way while you can choose to go into null sec and PVP with your corp; you are also able to play it safe. I think EVE is and always will be for those who are more mature and adulterated. I mean sure I am still clueless with PVP and trying to teach an old dog new tricks isnt the easiest but I am attempting to learn. I think in retrospect that the universe of New Eden is a melting pot and with this we are going to get our share of yahoos, but in the end after a few months of skilling up we see some of it weeded out, i think that some players are just stubborn to admit that EVE is just too complex for them. Sure I got a 5 subject note book to write in and help keep notes on websites and advice that goes along with the information and make my deicisions based on that but its not just the use of intellect alone that creates an EVE player.... I think EVE players are more driven then WOW players by a long shot and with this determination we do try to enforce a code that should be followed.
As one other player stated the "SP requirements" are to help sort out who is more dedicated and can only accept limited individuals based on this. My corp when I joined asked for my API, and honestly I like the system of security... now for ***** and giggles i activated a 7 day trial and revived/cancelled right after my 70 Goblin... They got a "guild finding" system that runs along EVE's dynamics and well according to an article (linked here)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/243465/world_of_warcraft_loses_2_million_subscribers_in_a_year.html
The game is reaching its peak and honestly there are many threads within the community's forums that beg the question of whether the game is dying, and well remember I am not a WOW player sure i was a little after BC but I am not one of those 10 year olds ( I am 27) and well the game of WOW was attractive back in 2004, but i went right from there to EVE in 2006 and well not to get personal i had situations where i had to quit for a period of time and returned now and plan on staying permamently... I just thought we should clear some misconceptions with the subject. I mean from an objective standpoint I think EVE will grow steadily as the WOWmania has settled they are using the new expansion as a way of establishing some level of players but I am even going as far to say that will fail along with D3 which is introducing the "cash shop" right off the bat on release and well I only determine the downfall when games start adding "cash shops" ... Sega however used this to their advantage with Spiral Knights which has reached over 1 million accounts... However this deviates from the original message, It comes down to what we as the players believe and have our faith in ... If we have enough people stating loudly that EVE will fail.. Its only a matter of time before it does and I REFUSE to see this happen.
Sure I got alot to learn again about EVE but I am not giving up.... Do i see some similarites about WOW... yes but WOW is copying EVE in alot of ways and it digusts me to know that they have to sink this low for players. As stated before its what "we" believe as the playerbase in New Eden that truly matters. So this question should go to say ... Do you believe in New Eden? Would you Die for her? Would you ... Would you... You finish that statement ... EVE provides endless possibilties and well these are just my thoughts on the matter. |
Dyner
Midgard Protectorate
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 10:38:00 -
[270] - Quote
/signed
And no it has nothing to do with the fact I have "Cloaking" trained |
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Khorian
Versatech Co. Raiden.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 11:15:00 -
[271] - Quote
Who says that WoW is a bad game? It isn't. It just is a fundamentally different type of game than EvE is. By definition, EvE will never be able to reach WoWs numbers. And why should it? It doesn't have to, because EvEs subscriber base is as loyal to the game, or maybe even more loyal and involved to the game than the WoW one.
When I say fundamentally, I mean Themepark and Sandbox or instant gratification and instant death.
I think CCP could change EvE to attract more players by making it "safer" I don't think they should. And I will explain why:
When you look at the subscription rates in the past years you will notice that they were constantly climbing in small but healthy steps. Only recently the took a step back, and that was because CCP alienated its core subscriber base.
They are now back on the right track (except for the SCap nerf) and if they keep this up, they will notice an upward subscription trend.
What you are proposing is that EvE should be, some would say drastically, changed in its core mechanics to attract more new players, so CCP has a bigger buffer in case something goes horribly wrong (like the last expansion) and people start leaving.
That in itself tho, would lead people leave in droves. You can't just go and change a games core so drastically. You can take a look at SWG:NGE for reference. It totally alienated its playerbase and somehow strugled along all these years without dieing. But it never again lived up to its glory days.
Look, EvE has allready become much easier over the last years. Its a slow and stealthy process. I personally do not like it, but I accepted it because it obviously helped the game attract more people without watering it down too much from what it once was. Thi happens allready, and it will continue to happen probably (sadly) but again, it is a SLOW process.
I just hope they never cross the line and betray the very idea behind what EvE is and what made us all come here and play it.
That is the fear that old players have when newer players try to change the game. They have seen and witnessed all the little changes over the years. If those changes had been made all at once in one expansion i can guarantee you there would have been a mass exodus.
The newer player only sees the CURRENT state of the game, and naturally might feel that it could be easier in some ways, because it is still relatively tough. He doesn't see, that he allready has it much easier than the vets when they started playing with 50k SP and advanced learning skills for 4.5 mill isk.
Thats just one example. I hope you can understand my point of view on this subject. I think that many are thinking similarily on this matter.
Thank you for your time. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
902
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 11:23:00 -
[272] - Quote
Khorian wrote:That in itself tho, would lead people leave in droves. You can't just go and change a games core so drastically. You can take a look at SWG:NGE for reference. It totally alienated its playerbase and somehow strugled along all these years without dieing. But it never again lived up to its glory days. Now this guy gets it.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
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