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Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the goal of encouraging change in the universe and force engagements, or at least something interesting to happen out in 0.0, why not blow parts of it up on occasion? The best parts of eve are permanent, soul crushing loss...this increases that at the same time as forcing change.
On a somewhat rare occasion some sun could go nova. It would result in the complete destruction of the constellation.
All matter in these areas would be destroyed. I suppose the idea of having some systems just be burnt to a crisp but the structures being salvageable or something... There'd be no working stargate though.
There would be a period of time to react and bug out. The star would show signs of going nova before actually doing so. Ignore these signs and you lose...possibly everything.
Medical clones in a system that goes nova would be destroyed. There'd be no way to recover them. If you're going AFK a while you would contract your medical clone to a mobile facility as even hisec systems can go....naturally (more below). When the change came into effect all clones would be moved to such a facility...there'd be a one shot free move to anywhere. This is to keep people from coming back after years to find their main gone. Anyone that moves their clone though is SOL if they don't take care of it. There should be both NPC and PC mobile clone arrays. Would probably need to make it impossible for a PC one to be destroyed...at least in the first iteration because I imagine a lot of butt-hurt if one got blown up on its way out (I'd be cool with it myself).
The new, buildable stargates would be used to make WH exploration a pioneering effort to replace exploded systems. Systems could be sold to concord or kept lawless...not sure what you'd do for lowsec but that could be ironed out.
A new, very expensive ship/weapon pair would be created to explode an enemy's star. It would require some months of training and completely destroy the character. It would cause a chain reaction to begin in the star that would result in it going nova within some sufficient amount of time. It should be difficult to get the ship to its destination, requiring either massive force or great ingenuity. It should be possible, but far from easy, for a smaller alliance to destroy a coalition's home system if they're not vigilant.
This weapon would not be capable of firing in low/high. Lawful space only explodes naturally, and it would be a fairly rare event...but would in fact happen, which could be cool because it could split the universe and there'd need to be explorers and industrials to connect it again.
Sure, it needs a lot more work. I just thought of it today. It could be devastatingly destructive to the game if implemented naively, but could be a huge amount of fun if done right. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2332
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why, if I let my sub lapse for a month or two, should I lose everything I own with no possibility of recovery? |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Why, if I let my sub lapse for a month or two, should I lose everything I own with no possibility of recovery?
Because you didn't put your clone in a safe place. You have opportunity to do so in order to avoid that destruction.
Could make it easier for the lazy by making all NPC clone facilities capable of moving your clone if needed. |
NearNihil
Every time is Fuwa time
109
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ok so the risk is losing literally everything. At random. With no counter. What's the reward? |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
71
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
This seems like an awful idea. What part of this makes the game more fun? We're talking about playing a game right? |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
138
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's a fun concept. But this is still a game. RL happens, people have to go away for indeterminate amounts of time, with or without warning. Without an 'RL failsafe' of some sort, this idea can't be anything more than a cool concept. The Law is a point of View |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
NearNihil wrote:Ok so the risk is losing literally everything. At random. With no counter. What's the reward?
Decreased stagnation.
There's plenty of counters I described and I'm sure more can be thought of. You got bug-out time, facilities to contract out your clone moving... The reward of taking the risk not to make that contract would be the advantages of 0.0 and slight amount of saved isk per clone. |
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
64
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
My problem with it is all the people who relied on station indestructibility, parked their assets/clone in one knowing it was safe, and then left the game for an extended period of time. Your pulling the rug out from underthem, for no really good reason. What could be interesting is if a new area of space opened that had such a risk, but the harm of applying it to existing space is too great. |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:It's a fun concept. But this is still a game. RL happens, people have to go away for indeterminate amounts of time, with or without warning. Without an 'RL failsafe' of some sort, this idea can't be anything more than a cool concept.
Perhaps the addition then of a clone backup.
Maybe the idea of complete material destruction is enough and the clone idea is too much. I like the idea of having to completely reset if you screw up really bad, but yeah...needs something for the people that get hit by busses and can't log in for months. I think anything short of that though could be avoidable by just flipping to a mobile clone before you leave on vacation. |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Secret Squirrell wrote:My problem with it is all the people who relied on station indestructibility, parked their assets/clone in one knowing it was safe, and then left the game for an extended period of time. Your pulling the rug out from underthem, for no really good reason. What could be interesting is if a new area of space opened that had such a risk, but the harm of applying it to existing space is too great.
Yeah, that would be cool. Some new space that's just a whole lot more betterer but carries the cost of being unstable.
Maybe instead of just the mobile clone array you have service contracts with the station owner to move your stuff if they need to leave. Everyone would have such a contract to start with and would have to chose not to. Perhaps being free until you log in the first time after the change...CCP managed to pull something like that off with the avatar changes and such. |
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
138
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:Kenrailae wrote:It's a fun concept. But this is still a game. RL happens, people have to go away for indeterminate amounts of time, with or without warning. Without an 'RL failsafe' of some sort, this idea can't be anything more than a cool concept. Perhaps the addition then of a clone backup. Maybe the idea of complete material destruction is enough and the clone idea is too much. I like the idea of having to completely reset if you screw up really bad, but yeah...needs something for the people that get hit by busses and can't log in for months. I think anything short of that though could be avoidable by just flipping to a mobile clone before you leave on vacation.
I have to disagree with you there. Eve has a significant portion of it's player base that is either active, inactive, or reserve military. If the world's **** hits the fan, and they get called overnight, they can't be penalized like this idea suggests. A far more likely scenario than being hit by a bus. There are so many reasons someone may have to step out of the game on very short notice. I think if you tuned the idea back a bit to parts of solar systems being obliterated by solar flares or something, that would be a better balance. But putting in more 'NPC services' isn't what Eve is about, and we have to remember that though Eve is Real, I was there, etc, it's still a game. The Law is a point of View |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm one of those that would like destructible outposts, but only as the final part of taking sov. Station is "captured" capturing corp has a chance to scuttle the outpost, requires many freighters worth of special demo charges, requires extra time, so enemys can try to re-take the system and nullify the countdown.
I wrote a wall of text about it last year I think.
Removing an entire start system is, in comparison, ridiculous.
Players can make another outpost. I wrote that post so that all assets in a station would be blown away, and all the enemy/neutral clones as well: why harbour rats, skunks and badgers in your house if you can easily afford to knock it down and rebuild in no time?
A star blowing up? takes an entire system out of the game. With the exploding outpost idea, I was told it would wreak havoc with the server. Imagine what taking a system out would do. Whats more, considering Nullsec powers, and the whole idea of losing = didn't want that sov anyways, do you think any nullsec power would hesitate a SECOND to blow away various strategic star systems in a scorched earth war? You'd end up with disconnected island chains in null, and even more stagnation.
and for the record: Timothy Zahn sucks, and so do his ideas.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2332
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 21:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why, if I let my sub lapse for a month or two, should I lose everything I own with no possibility of recovery? Because you didn't put your clone in a safe place. You have opportunity to do so in order to avoid that destruction. Could make it easier for the lazy by making all NPC clone facilities capable of moving your clone if needed.
I didn't say a thing about my clone. I lose those fairly frequently anyway.
I meant my assets. My ships, modules, blueprints, all of my stuff. Billions of ISK of stuff, that you want to take away from me with no way at all for me to save it.
Tell me this: What incentive is there for a player to return to the game if everything they owned before was just gone, with not even the slightest glimmer of possibility that it may be recovered? |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: Tell me this: What incentive is there for a player to return to the game if everything they owned before was just gone, with not even the slightest glimmer of possibility that it may be recovered?
Same one as always: you like the game. What I don't understand are people who want to play a game in which they can't lose. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2332
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:Danika Princip wrote: Tell me this: What incentive is there for a player to return to the game if everything they owned before was just gone, with not even the slightest glimmer of possibility that it may be recovered?
Same one as always: you like the game. What I don't understand are people who want to play a game in which they can't lose.
But who likes the game enough to start again from scratch? I certainly wouldn't.
There's a difference between not being able to lose, and not having literally everything you've spent years working for taken away from you with absolutely no possibility whatsoever of preventing it. |
Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
But who likes the game enough to start again from scratch? I certainly wouldn't.
I've done it many times and yes, I enjoy it. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:Danika Princip wrote:
But who likes the game enough to start again from scratch? I certainly wouldn't.
I've done it many times and yes, I enjoy it.
And some people pay to enjoy being demeaned and beaten, while others enjoy beestings or doing their taxes. Masochism isn't for everyone. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1016
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 22:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:I'm one of those that would like destructible outposts, but only as the final part of taking sov. Station is "captured" capturing corp has a chance to scuttle the outpost, requires many freighters worth of special demo charges, requires extra time, so enemys can try to re-take the system and nullify the countdown.
I wrote a wall of text about it last year I think.
Removing an entire start system is, in comparison, ridiculous.
Players can make another outpost. I wrote that post so that all assets in a station would be blown away, and all the enemy/neutral clones as well: why harbour rats, skunks and badgers in your house if you can easily afford to knock it down and rebuild in no time?
A star blowing up? takes an entire system out of the game. With the exploding outpost idea, I was told it would wreak havoc with the server. Imagine what taking a system out would do. Whats more, considering Nullsec powers, and the whole idea of losing = didn't want that sov anyways, do you think any nullsec power would hesitate a SECOND to blow away various strategic star systems in a scorched earth war? You'd end up with disconnected island chains in null, and even more stagnation.
and for the record: Timothy Zahn sucks, and so do his ideas.
outposts should have offensive capabilities, like maybe sieged dread worth of DPS. these stations can either be compeltely destroyed, or require a long-lengthy capture cycle involving a covops frigate or titan something that the fleet must defend from defenders until the cycle is complete (lets say 3-4 hours).
this way, a station is multitudes harder to capture than destroy, but it saves you the trouble of having to completely rebuild a station.
also, defneders should eb able to self-destruct the station with a 100km AoE the size of 5 DD's and 15 minute countdown, unstoppable by the attacking force. |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
24
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is sorta what i had anticipated the Incursions to do. But as it stands, Incursions don't "do" anything....they "invade" a system, and sit safe and sound in their little sites. What kind of invasion doesn't actually invade. "Ok, we're here, we have "control" of the system, we're going to leave now." Yeah, that sounds legit. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
181
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 23:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:
On a somewhat rare occasion some sun could go nova. It would result in the complete destruction of the constellation.
I would limit that weapon to caps and supers and only allow it to fire once a day :D |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
952
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
New Eden is a star cluster about 50ly across, supernova candidates are rare enough that there probably isn't one in the cluster, likewise a single super nova would in enough time destroy all life across the cluster as 50ly in astronomical terms is close enough for the shock wave to strip the atmosphere of every single planet in range, though you'd have plenty of time to evacuate though as the shock waves would be fast but incapable of exceeding light speed. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:New Eden is a star cluster about 50ly across, supernova candidates are rare enough that there probably isn't one in the cluster, likewise a single super nova would in enough time destroy all life across the cluster as 50ly in astronomical terms is close enough for the shock wave to strip the atmosphere of every single planet in range, though you'd have plenty of time to evacuate though as the shock waves would be fast but incapable of exceeding light speed.
This. Technically, if a supernova happened in one system, it'd start affecting the neighboring systems in a year or so... but in practical terms, everyone should be really worried about one happening, because if a supernova did happen, than within the lifetime of most people, the entire galaxy would be scourged, ruining all habitable planets.
Which actually makes it an excellent idea, from an RP/lore standpoint. If you pick some arbitrary system and have it go nova, you can constantly be tracking the progress of the implacable wave of death, while capsuleers are forced to expand and explore further, building into a new realm of space beyond the nova's reach. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 00:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Endovior wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:New Eden is a star cluster about 50ly across, supernova candidates are rare enough that there probably isn't one in the cluster, likewise a single super nova would in enough time destroy all life across the cluster as 50ly in astronomical terms is close enough for the shock wave to strip the atmosphere of every single planet in range, though you'd have plenty of time to evacuate though as the shock waves would be fast but incapable of exceeding light speed. This. Technically, if a supernova happened in one system, it'd start affecting the neighboring systems in a year or so... but in practical terms, everyone should be really worried about one happening, because if a supernova did happen, than within the lifetime of most people, the entire galaxy would be scourged, ruining all habitable planets. Which actually makes it an excellent idea, from an RP/lore standpoint. If you pick some arbitrary system and have it go nova, you can constantly be tracking the progress of the implacable wave of death, while capsuleers are forced to expand and explore further, building into a new realm of space beyond the nova's reach.
AFAIK natural phenomena do not have any transwarp ability :D The effects of a supernova will propagate at light speed. Hence a supernova should take years or decades to effect even an adjoining system. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1016
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Endovior wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:New Eden is a star cluster about 50ly across, supernova candidates are rare enough that there probably isn't one in the cluster, likewise a single super nova would in enough time destroy all life across the cluster as 50ly in astronomical terms is close enough for the shock wave to strip the atmosphere of every single planet in range, though you'd have plenty of time to evacuate though as the shock waves would be fast but incapable of exceeding light speed. This. Technically, if a supernova happened in one system, it'd start affecting the neighboring systems in a year or so... but in practical terms, everyone should be really worried about one happening, because if a supernova did happen, than within the lifetime of most people, the entire galaxy would be scourged, ruining all habitable planets. Which actually makes it an excellent idea, from an RP/lore standpoint. If you pick some arbitrary system and have it go nova, you can constantly be tracking the progress of the implacable wave of death, while capsuleers are forced to expand and explore further, building into a new realm of space beyond the nova's reach. AFAIK natural phenomena do not have any transwarp ability :D The effects of a supernova will propagate at light speed. Hence a supernova should take years or decades to effect even an adjoining system. the say its accelerated by destabilization of space's natural curve as an inherent side effect of mass-warp drive use across the cluster.
could you imagine though? every player having to latch onto fleets babylon 5 style to outrun the supernova in one of the 4 directions, after this goes on for about a year and players are scattered, they can start re-exploring the hundreds and hundreds of lightyears they raced through to escape the nova, salvaging remnants of hidden fleets and destroyed colonies, maybe someday meeting up with a scout from one of the other great fleets. |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 01:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Endovior wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:New Eden is a star cluster about 50ly across, supernova candidates are rare enough that there probably isn't one in the cluster, likewise a single super nova would in enough time destroy all life across the cluster as 50ly in astronomical terms is close enough for the shock wave to strip the atmosphere of every single planet in range, though you'd have plenty of time to evacuate though as the shock waves would be fast but incapable of exceeding light speed. This. Technically, if a supernova happened in one system, it'd start affecting the neighboring systems in a year or so... but in practical terms, everyone should be really worried about one happening, because if a supernova did happen, than within the lifetime of most people, the entire galaxy would be scourged, ruining all habitable planets. Which actually makes it an excellent idea, from an RP/lore standpoint. If you pick some arbitrary system and have it go nova, you can constantly be tracking the progress of the implacable wave of death, while capsuleers are forced to expand and explore further, building into a new realm of space beyond the nova's reach. AFAIK natural phenomena do not have any transwarp ability :D The effects of a supernova will propagate at light speed. Hence a supernova should take years or decades to effect even an adjoining system.
Indeed... but the effect propagates in all directions, and the EVE universe is smaller than our own; EVE's entire galaxy is only 50 light years across. In other words, if a supernova happened at one end, in 50 years, the entire galaxy would've burned. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 13:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
I can't believe we're arguing about this. This thread does not merit two pages.
We want super weapons that can fire 1x per day. With the amount of supers in Eve you could take out a pretty big chunk of space every day. It would be like to avoid stagnation in my life I suddenly decide I'm going to build a dirty bomb in my basement. Sure I'm no longer bored, but I'm also a huge menace to a large number of people that are enjoying the status quo not to mention once you've burned everything down... where do you go from there?
The idea you are suggesting is an ending not a glorious new beginning. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
669
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
This is definitely up there in the top 100 most stupid ideas ever posted on the F&I forums.
@OP - I very rarely ever say this and please take it with the seriousness and enormity of my intent in doing so: Go biomass yourself. |
Seranova Farreach
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
imagine the turmoil is JITA's sun went nova and wiped out all of those assets? _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1158
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ispai Ponue wrote:With the goal of encouraging change in the universe and force engagements, or at least something interesting to happen out in 0.0, why not blow parts of it up on occasion? The best parts of eve are permanent, soul crushing loss...this increases that at the same time as forcing change.
On a somewhat rare occasion some sun could go nova. It would result in the complete destruction of the constellation.
All matter in these areas would be destroyed. I suppose the idea of having some systems just be burnt to a crisp but the structures being salvageable or something... There'd be no working stargate though.
There would be a period of time to react and bug out. The star would show signs of going nova before actually doing so. Ignore these signs and you lose...possibly everything.
Medical clones in a system that goes nova would be destroyed. There'd be no way to recover them. If you're going AFK a while you would contract your medical clone to a mobile facility as even hisec systems can go....naturally (more below). When the change came into effect all clones would be moved to such a facility...there'd be a one shot free move to anywhere. This is to keep people from coming back after years to find their main gone. Anyone that moves their clone though is SOL if they don't take care of it. There should be both NPC and PC mobile clone arrays. Would probably need to make it impossible for a PC one to be destroyed...at least in the first iteration because I imagine a lot of butt-hurt if one got blown up on its way out (I'd be cool with it myself).
The new, buildable stargates would be used to make WH exploration a pioneering effort to replace exploded systems. Systems could be sold to concord or kept lawless...not sure what you'd do for lowsec but that could be ironed out.
A new, very expensive ship/weapon pair would be created to explode an enemy's star. It would require some months of training and completely destroy the character. It would cause a chain reaction to begin in the star that would result in it going nova within some sufficient amount of time. It should be difficult to get the ship to its destination, requiring either massive force or great ingenuity. It should be possible, but far from easy, for a smaller alliance to destroy a coalition's home system if they're not vigilant.
This weapon would not be capable of firing in low/high. Lawful space only explodes naturally, and it would be a fairly rare event...but would in fact happen, which could be cool because it could split the universe and there'd need to be explorers and industrials to connect it again.
Sure, it needs a lot more work. I just thought of it today. It could be devastatingly destructive to the game if implemented naively, but could be a huge amount of fun if done right.
Then the player that had stoped playign 1 year ago return.. and has lost everythign because he had all on one station... result. He immediately unsubstribe and CCP lost a costumer FOREVER. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
328
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
To deal with the unsub problems maybe if when an account is unsubbed its assets are removed from the game then when resubbed if the system is destroyed they can choose a system to move them to.
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