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Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.08 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
So here's the deal,
My corp has decided to move back into WH space, a C5 to be particular. They're pretty much ALL Caldari pilots and will be shield repping, shooting missiles from 80-100km rang away.
My issue, is that I have basically 0 shield skills, and I'd say 90% of my SP is focused into armor, lasers and Amarr ships. I've been trying to figure out how I can still run C5s with the boys and actually pull my own weight. I've looked for shield buffer tanked Amarr BSs, but to no avail (and It seems counter productive since I have crap for shields).
I don't want to leave corp, as I love the guys I fly with. I also don't want to spend the next 4 months cross-training.
Any advice/builds/solutions would be highly appreciated. Thanks. |
Ratnose Banker
Pink Sockers
11
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Posted - 2011.11.08 23:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
it takes like a week or so to train for t2 shield tank
nightmare works great...
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Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 00:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ratnose Banker wrote:it takes like a week or so to train for t2 shield tank
nightmare works great...
Yea, an option I have considered, although I can BARELY afford one, and I most certainly cannot afford to lose one. |
Decus Daga
DOCS RUFF RIDERS Black Thorne Alliance
6
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Posted - 2011.11.09 00:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
In a C5 money wont be an issue, see if you can get the corp to help chip in for the first one, be DAMN careful with it until you save for a replacement.
But as said above, a nightmare is great for what your asking. |
Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 00:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Decus Daga wrote:In a C5 money wont be an issue, see if you can get the corp to help chip in for the first one, be DAMN careful with it until you save for a replacement.
But as said above, a nightmare is great for what your asking.
Were a small(ish) corp, and most members will be running the C5s in Tengus/Ravens (both with RR). I doubt putting one of the less experienced toons in a Nightmare would really be an option.
I'd definitely like to work towards a nightmare, and ideally would be what I'd like to fly in this WH, but I'm looking for something to use in the meantime. Something to run C5s and accumulate isk until I can afford a Nightmare. |
Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 00:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
. |
Hamatitio
Aperture Harmonics K162
23
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Posted - 2011.11.09 02:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Have you considered salvaging for them while you either train up skills for shields or save up isk for a nightmare? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
112
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Posted - 2011.11.09 03:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ratnose Banker wrote:it takes like a week or so to train for t2 shield tank
nightmare works great...
This. Here's what you need for a basic shield tank: Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 Shield Upgrades 4 Shield Operation 4 Shield Management 4 Shield Compensation 4 (local tank) and/or Shield Emission Systems 4 (spider tanking)
With those to lvl 4 you should be able to do spider tanking shield fleets just fine.
For starters, a shield-gank Apoc (Navy if you can afford it) should be able to do fine in a RR group. Drop on 2x Inv Field 2, 1x T2 EM Hardener, 1x Large Shield Extender 2, Damage Control 2, and a Large Shield Extender Rig and you should be fine. It's not optimal, especially since you lose a gun or two to RR modules, but it should be a fairly simple starter ship.
Something like this might work ok (it can't perma-run the shield transfer, due to the fact that it eats cap like candy, but it should still do decent). At max skills it does 455 DPS and has 83k EHP (with the skills I listed it'd be more like 75-80k EHP).
[Apocalypse, Shield Gank] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Extender II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
120
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Posted - 2011.11.09 05:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Have you tried asking your corp what they think? |
Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks a bunch mxzf, and yea the corp had suggested the nightmare, and also planned on recruiting more armor tankers, but recruitment is very slow for a WH corp for security reasons. |
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
127
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you don't have the stomach to fly NM in wh, just fly a laser Rokh. It takes no more training than NM, and is better than a rail Rokh... |
Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:If you don't have the stomach to fly NM in wh, just fly a laser Rokh. It takes no more training than NM, and is better than a rail Rokh...
sounds cool, I'll play around with it in EFT, thanks for the feedback. |
weebil
industrial apocolypse
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 08:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roman Holiday wrote:Goose99 wrote:If you don't have the stomach to fly NM in wh, just fly a laser Rokh. It takes no more training than NM, and is better than a rail Rokh... sounds cool, I'll play around with it in EFT, thanks for the feedback.
Couple weeks yu could get into a drake with t2 tank and average missile skills. A couple months and you could drake perfectly. Most these skills are handy elsewhere. I was forced to do the same, for the same reason and never regretted it |
electronically
Space Benderz
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 11:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
weebil wrote:Roman Holiday wrote:Goose99 wrote:If you don't have the stomach to fly NM in wh, just fly a laser Rokh. It takes no more training than NM, and is better than a rail Rokh... sounds cool, I'll play around with it in EFT, thanks for the feedback. Couple weeks yu could get into a drake with t2 tank and average missile skills. A couple months and you could drake perfectly. Most these skills are handy elsewhere. I was forced to do the same, for the same reason and never regretted it
Should add here that some of the T2 range of amarr ships use missiles. Vengeance, malediction, Sacrilidge and Damnation IIRC. So its something you would train sooner rather than later anyways |
Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Long time C5 resident here. I would recommend what everyone else suggests, go with a Nightmare. It may be the best PvE ship in the game and is perfect for high end sleeper sites.
Other ideas here that I have seen people with similar issues do:
Loki as you can use your turrent skills.
Fly the Noctis in the mean time.
Train for either the Basilisk and Scimitar and fly Logistics.
All involve some training but in the end Amarr ships are really hard to shield tank for a C5 plex.
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Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2011.11.10 19:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ratnose Banker wrote:it takes like a week or so to train for t2 shield tank
nightmare works great...
I'll have nightmares with your face! Good job.
You should look into training shield tanking indeed. It's always worth it to branch out and you'll be able to fly several great ships.
Personally? I'd go for a Loki. |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
74
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Posted - 2011.11.10 22:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Armor tanked Noctis.
+ Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
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Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2011.11.10 22:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
mxzf wrote:
[Apocalypse, Shield Gank] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Extender II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
I would be very surprised to see that survive a decent C5 site without serious reps on it. |
Tora Oni
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2011.11.10 23:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
OMFG ! Shield tanking a fine Apoc Navy, which will die asap in a C5...... |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2011.11.11 00:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Drake. You can fairly simply get massive EHP passive tank, without a great deal of skills.
You won't be up to the class of the others, but It gets you into a similar style as the others. 2 weeks or so of training.
[Drake, Basic passive] 7x 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I (Scourge Heavy Missile) 2x Invulnerability Field II 2x Large Shield Extender II Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Medium Core Defence Field Purger I 2x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
I'm seeing 15 days or so for a base character, for a 70k ehp omni. 149dps which is far from good, but more skills like warhead upgrades will help there. More Battlecruiser will help too, by bumping resists. (The purger is just to taste. means it's less time for repair afterwards)
Maybe throw in some light shield drones, for RR.
Maybe 35 million or so. |
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
143
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Posted - 2011.11.11 01:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jenn Makanen wrote:Drake. You can fairly simply get massive EHP passive tank, without a great deal of skills.
You won't be up to the class of the others, but It gets you into a similar style as the others. 2 weeks or so of training.
[Drake, Basic passive] 7x 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I (Scourge Heavy Missile) 2x Invulnerability Field II 2x Large Shield Extender II Viscoelastic EM Ward Salubrity I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Damage Control II 3x Ballistic Control System II Medium Core Defence Field Purger I 2x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
I'm seeing 15 days or so for a base character, for a 70k ehp omni. 149dps which is far from good, but more skills like warhead upgrades will help there. More Battlecruiser will help too, by bumping resists. (The purger is just to taste. means it's less time for repair afterwards)
Maybe throw in some light shield drones, for RR.
Maybe 35 million or so.
The problem is he also lacks any missile skills. Training time for decent lvl hml + missile support, and bc, is far longer than just Caldari BS, at which point he can get either NM rolling, or laser Rokh while he trains cruise for flying Raven with his corp mates. Drake is hardly sufficient for c5 anyway. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2011.11.11 01:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tora Oni wrote:OMFG ! Shield tanking a fine Apoc Navy, which will die asap in a C5...... You can get 150k ehp on a shield Apoc Navy. You have to give up all your rigs and mid slots to pull it off, but it's actually not as bad as you'd expect...especially since you end up with a LOT of open lows to play with.
It's not a long-term solution, but we aren't talking long-term. |
Betid
Dead poets society The Laughing Men
2
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Posted - 2011.11.11 19:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Don't have eft in front of me, but if you have enough logi to rep T1 resists, then a Phantasm should do it. A shield harby is possible, but squishy with only 4 slots. The shield warfare link would be welcome, but will need t2 rigs and fac/dead fields.
Either will be fine PvP ships once you get the nightmare.
Also, you didn't say what the static was. C5 as well? |
Eridanii
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
0
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Posted - 2011.11.13 12:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Does your Corp use logis for reps? If so, Shield Legion.
I was in the same spot in my corp, trying to run Wormhole C5 ops. I have maxed out medium laser skills. Use a Beam Shield Legion. Your shield buffer tank and resists are good enough to tank C5s with logis repping. Buffer lasts long enough for them to **** around for a few seconds, then lock you and rep you. I've used it a bunch. It leaves all the low slots open for Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers. My corp has had zero problems keeping me up in shield ops alongside all the bloody Tengus.
Mine was similar to this:
3x Imperial Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II (with PG implant if you don't have high enough fitting skills)
LSE II Invuln II (You can swap this for an AB, you lose some resist but can make up for it with mitigation from speed) Thermal Hardener II EM Hardener II
6x Heavy Beam II
Rigs: MACR for powergrid 2x MCDFE for shield buffer
You can shoot lasers out to 93k Optimal with a 97.5 locking distance. You do about 340 dps out there. Using Gleam, you do about 600 dps at 13k optimal. I had a similar setup with Pulse's but I found the damn C5 spawns are like 80-90k away sometimes and your overall damage over the course of the Op would be better if you were shooting non-stop instead of burning for distance half the time not shooting. You also never waste any dps like those missile guys do... |
Roman Holiday
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.14 18:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks for all the great advice, I've been weighing several options. One of those options I'm leaning towards is selling my Amarr toon and purchasing a Caldari =D. Since I'm going to be using a SB quite often the missile skills will be nice. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck
2
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Posted - 2011.11.15 01:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
use a nightmare.
alternatively, several corps in Narwhals are recruiting ;) |
Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
10
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Posted - 2011.11.18 20:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Being a long-time amarr player (i have other amarr characters besides this one, obviously) I find it very useful to be able to field both tanks and supplementary weapons. So, don't sell your toon, just train, it'll be faster. You'll have most of the important skills anyway.
Suggestions are as many others suggested here: get a nightmare, this should be your ultimate goal. Meanwhile, if you can't fly/afford it, train skills for it and fly some other useful ships in fleet - just ask your corpmates what can you be useful in (noctis, prober covops, hacker ship, gas-sucker ship - there are many useful ones in wh space). While you're training for nightmare drop a few hunderd thousands of skillpoints into missiles and fly a noobdrake - suprisingly effective ship.
Ultimately, having a cross-trained char will mean that you aren't constrained to a certain combat style and can adapt fittings according to situations. My older amarr character can field most of the amarr and caldari subcapital ships and has skills for all weapons systems. There are a few ships in amarr ship line that benefit from either missile or shield skills, or even both. Being amarr is more than just flying golden hulls and firing laz0rs, you know Ah, you seek meaning?-áThen listen to the music, not the song. |
dream3874
Hard Knocks Inc.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.19 15:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yes it would be a mistake to sell your toon. Best bet liek others have posted are to get a Nightmare or the sheild legion and just start training Caldari from there. Amarr/Caldari is a good compliment to have anyway. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
26
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Posted - 2011.11.22 08:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Get your corpmates to man up and train Minnie or Amarr. No effort on your part and you'll be doing them a favour. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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