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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
764
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
The fight that happened in HED-GP has been the object of discussion for the last few days, and specifically the technical aspect of it. Our resident space-wizard, CCP Veritas, wrote a technical retrospective on the events in HED and how they compare to another heavy fight that happened in 6VDT.
Read it here. CCP Gargant | Community Representative | Tournament Referee |
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1453
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
So now everytime CFC will lose some stuff(Asakai and now HED) CCP will make a devblog about it |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3454
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you for looking into this! |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
320
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Guess in the end, it was the 1000 domis that doomed CFCRUS. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1179
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Interesting information.
I wonder if it makes sense to simply remove sentry drones from the physics simulation, keep them perfectly still, and to stop sending unique per-sentry firing information to every observer above a certain TIDI factor, although clearly you would still want to show them to the person being shot at, and their owner.
Or if you wanted to make something fun... battleship-only, sustained beam projected AOE that degrades drone damagttleships being fed cap by logi chains to effectively dampen every single sentry belonging to a slowcat fleet down to about 20kme / tracking within a given radius of the target ship, say 10km. Make it require a metric ton of cap. I'd love to see formations of ba optimal. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
35
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your are looking at a social problem from a technical angle, which is understandable given your job.
However, what's the opinion of Game Design (TM) on how the sov system that's been left untouched since Dominion contributes to this pileup of hardware and warm bodies?
There were enough pilots around to push the system to way beyond 5k people, and I doubt that number will go down as more and more 0.0 consolidates due to the design of sov, capitals and force projection. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
584
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.
When you can't load grid, you can't turn on hardeners, and you're alpha'd off the field before it loads. That's not fun game play. |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
899
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards. CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online |
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
35
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:sustained beam projected AOE
In a thread about server performance, you want to introduce AOE.
Not sure if trolling or daft...
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
899
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Also, I applaud you for the typo. I don't even see that one anymore. CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
10926
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tech-****!
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
584
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Kismeteer wrote:The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards.
Excellent, thank you sir. I look forward to your progress. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Evelgrivion
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
287
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.
When you can't load grid, you can't turn on hardeners, and you're alpha'd off the field before it loads. That's not fun game play.
As far as I know, Brain in a Box was never closed; the hold-up is in unraveling the legacy spaghetti-code, whose voodoo underpins the existing systems. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1325
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
While I completely don't care about reason and outcome of that battle I really enjoyed reading this devblog. Gimme MOAR :)
+1 CCP Veritas :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
232
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? I think we're all used to module lag, and lag moving about etc, it's the reappearance of the black screen of death that was majorly concerning.
This seemed different from the black screen of old in that it eventually let you in, just took 90 minutes or whatever since the server was so overloaded with other tasks. Not saying that there's no improvement to be made here (my internet died a little while in so I spent a couple hours staring at the login screen of my accounts), but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same thing as how it was back in 2007/8.
Also, just for the record every form of drone was pretty much useless in this fight, whether it came from a dominix or an archon. Drone assist didn't work at all so they pretty much sat there doing their own thing until the player count dropped enough where module lag was short enough to do things with them. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
681
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Perhaps get the people from Team Super Friends to give a hand...they aren't doing anything constructive atm. |
Omarous III
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
5
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Interesting information.
I wonder if it makes sense to simply remove sentry drones from the physics simulation, keep them perfectly still, and to stop sending unique per-sentry firing information to every observer above a certain TIDI factor, although clearly you would still want to show them to the person being shot at, and their owner.
That would shake up the meta.
This is a pretty good idea. Perhaps once TIDI hits a certain level all drones "disappear" from the simulation and they are treated as an invisible weapon system. Pilots can still direct drone damage at a single target and other pilots can target the "drone system" from the overview and attack it. The drones, however, are invisible in the simulation. This would reduce the backend processing of each individual drone targeting, moving, orbiting, the weapon animations, etc. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6215
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Kismeteer wrote:The worst lag was when people were jumping in, wouldn't reopening the Brian in the Box idea really have helped in this instance? Indeed, that's the work that Gridlock has been working towards. How much work has gone into it since it was announced / how much more is needed? That seems like it should be a huge priority - that's not even just a nullsec thing, that's a jita cap thing. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1198
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours.
Brain in the box work is happening
We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6215
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Aryth wrote:Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours. Brain in the box work is happening how happening
happening in the sense that "oh that's a good idea we should do it sometime once we're finished with dust" or "actual work has been going on since it was announced" Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Evelgrivion
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
288
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: how happening
happening in the sense that "oh that's a good idea we should do it sometime once we're finished with dust" or "actual work has been going on since it was announced"
There are multiple programmers on a team working on it. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2423
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote: The other bit is that the decision making code behind drone behavior does a poor job of scaling, often considering all attackable objects on grid when figuring out who to go after.
WTF moment. right there. "poor job of scaling" - in other words "slowest implementation possible". After 10 years you guys figure out that O(n2) loops don't scale very well? eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
249
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
The fix is simple you kill the batman optimise drones in the same way you did missiles- each ship can only have one active 'swarm'. Drones are deployed or recalled from that swarm. While the individual drones may still be targetable, the swarm has a virtual center- a single point that represents the whole swarm as far as the server is concerned (actually, it's a touch more complicated with AOE- with the edge case, you should probably consider the 'size' of the swarm and scale damage accordingly if the AOE doesn't overlap the whole blob, but that maths on that isn't too bad and can be optimised with lookup tables and simple linear interpolation).
If you recall or deploy a drone when drones are already out, it has to be to the swarm, so you get a temporary additional object in those cases, but for the most part, players don't do drones by halves (if any do, I'm sure we'll hear from them soon).
This reduces the typical number of drones by 80% on subcaps, 93% on carriers. Simple fix, but I bet the implementation is hard... |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
681
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Aryth wrote:Why has no brain in a box work has occurred? This surely would have improved the jumpin/out experience of so many that were stuck in warp tunnels for hours. Brain in the box work is happening how happening happening in the sense that "oh that's a good idea we should do it sometime once we're finished with dust" or "actual work has been going on since it was announced"
Or more like "lets get some pointless mobile structures done first, this reducung lag thing can wait" |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2078
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:The fight that happened in HED-GP has been the object of discussion for the last few days, and specifically the technical aspect of it. Our resident space-wizard, CCP Veritas, wrote a technical retrospective on the events in HED and how they compare to another heavy fight that happened in 6VDT. Read it here.
I read the dev blog.
So you sellouts are admitting you are wrecking drones for all players of Eve, for the sake of making the blob-seccer's, a small minority of the player base, happy.
Disgusting.
How about this? IGNORE THEM.
Their problem is not a big problem when looking at Eve as a whole. Why must you cater to such a small percentage of Eve?
And if you say "because we market the game on these massive fights", I will throw up.
How about taking some fraps of any one of the dozens of small gang fights that occur daily in FW zones, and make an ad based on those. The non- Eve player might appreciate ships actually moving on the screen, and not needing to be zoomed way out so every ship is just a red or blue square. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
900
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Actual work has happened since Brain in a Box was announced. I don't want to go into amazing details 'cause it could be a devblog of its own, or maybe a Fanfest presentation or something, but I spent about 6 months solid on it personally before I got promoted to technical director. Early in the process I discovered that the fundamental design of Dogma was going to get in the way of implementing BiaB, so I started rewriting that foundation. Since then we had one failed attempt to boot it up with a different team. In December we gave it another spin and I'm very happy with the composition of the new team. I believe once they've come up to speed with the system they'll be able to knock out work at a great pace and put me to shame. CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online |
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Evelgrivion
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
288
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
In the thread: players with no direct understanding of Eve's architecture offer in depth technical solutions to complex problems, which they only became aware of ten minutes ago. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
798
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ah, so when the system approach 10% TiDi, all drones recall automatically due to "system interference" which would even be true.
Would also encourage peeps to stop using those idiotic ships. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Anharat
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
73
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Posted - 2014.01.24 17:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'll give you 2 variants how to "deal" with the "drone" meta. 1. Make the level of leadership skill determine how much of drone bandwidth in mbit can be assigned to a person. One level of Leadership could be 50mbit in drones that be assigned to a single person with that skill , different numbers for wing command, fleet command. 2. Have any form of ECM (damp, jam, td) affect the drones of the ship that the ECM is being applied to.
Now this won't obviously reduce the server load that a gazillion drones will create. But let's face it. Drone assist is cancer and the faster you make it less terrible the faster big ass fights will be more like 6vdt and less like hed-. |
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