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t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:36:00 -
[1]
Nope it's not a post on what module combos are best or where the best mining grounds are. Just thought I'd mention two books I read during Christmas that adhere to the mindset of EVE and if you (role) play after their rules, you are sure to have fun and possibly come out as the king of the hill.
The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli
and
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
Both are very old texts ( 491 and and 2500 years old ). They are probably both available in full somewhere online, and there are many translations available. They both deal with the quest for power, war, and success at all costs.
The Art of War is more clear cut and concise wheras the Prince seems to be an excercise in writing far to many words to describe simple ideas. An interesting read nonetheless.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:43:00 -
[2]
Quote:
One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle.
Excellent read. Far more applicable outside warfare than most people give it credit
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:47:00 -
[3]
Absolutely. Can be used in almost any conflict. Even flame wars!
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:31:00 -
[4]
Read them both. Excellent reading.
Sarkos - Oracle
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:46:00 -
[5]
Another book I'd recommend, though few people know of it, is this one:
Tao of Jeet Kune Do
It's much less a training manual than people believe. And even fewer people know he authored a book.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Bashier Tarr
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:48:00 -
[6]
I read the prince, once for college work and again properly out of my own accord. It's a fantastic read, a real study on what makes men tick if you look at it right (the idea of the Necessitas is perfectly sublime, wish my country's president would do that).
I plan on reading the Art of War in full, but I've read small quotes and excrepts, and found that they apply to all competitive "games" (games in the Games Theory Sense), be them Military, Capitalist or even normal games like poker.
Good reccomendation
Gradient is hiring! Check our CoC here. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:50:00 -
[7]
I have never read any of this Sun Tzu, I'm utterly clueless...
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:53:00 -
[8]
Quote: I have never read any of this Sun Tzu, I'm utterly clueless...
Online Translation of The Art of War
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/09/2003 02:04:32
I very much rate "The Prince" as a primer for political pragmatism, but would suggest Carl von Clausewitz "On War" in preference to the perenially popular "Art of the War", because it is more applicable to industrial-era conflict and covers a lot of good ground on the issues of defeat-in-detail, logistical structures and strategical attack.
Beyond these works though, I strongly advise anybody who hasn't already, read Frank Herbert's "Dune" series. The man is a great writer and a great thinker, and clearly knew more than most of us will ever know about the politics of spin and public relations in temperal and spiritual application.
Just think about this quote for a moment;
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica, Children of Dune 244
JF Public Forum |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: j0sephine on 13/09/2003 02:07:52
... And to round out the list of lectures which might enhance your EVE experience....
with apologies in advance :s
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Pistolio
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:07:00 -
[11]
And its always good to have a good book to read while mining... ____________________________________________
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:08:00 -
[12]
Quote: Edited by: j0sephine on 13/09/2003 02:07:52
... And to round out the list of lectures which might enhance your EVE experience....
with apologies in advance :s
May you be flogged for making me visit that link without warning
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:09:00 -
[13]
Ah and of course:
Pax Ammaria.
I hear it will be available on the market soon...
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Temerlyn
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:22:00 -
[14]
he he i had posted sun tzu on my webpages along time ago as a means to fight our political batles in eve.
But the others look to be an interesting read
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:25:00 -
[15]
"May you be flogged for making me visit that link without warning "
Oh come, now; i apologized and i never do that without a really good reason.... wasn't that enough of a warning? :s~
... am willing to atone for my sin though *sniffs* except i think Mr.Snamn is already utilizing his whipping slaves... o.o;
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Lecavalier
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:27:00 -
[16]
Great topic t0rfiFrans. EVE is so well suited to all the political machinations, since we all live in the same game world.
Haven't read The Art of War yet, but I can heartily recommend The Prince, and second Jade's suggestion of Dune. The Prince is a virtual "how-to" guide, amazing that it has stood the test of time.
Dune is (IMHO) a masterwork, but am probably preaching to the converted, as I suspect a goodly chunk of the EVE population has already read it. We all like good sci-fi around here right?
And t0rfiFrans is that soon? or soon (TM)? Sorry couldn't resist.
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Karif
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:43:00 -
[17]
Sonshi's translation of The Art of War is one of the better ones I've seen over the years. While there are more 'modern' versions that describe warfare in more modern terms, the methods do not stray very far from this rather dated work.
While The Prince does relate more to EVE in general, it is a real shame more don't read Machiavelli's Discourses. It really changes the meaning of being 'Machiavellian'.
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit (or Mind, depending on the translation) is a good read if you have a few years to kill. Very heady stuff, but a very brilliant work that ended up being the launching pad for many other more modern thinkers. Amarr/Minmatar players might be interested in the section on the Lord/Bondsman relation.
John Stuart Mills' 'On Liberty' is one of those short little books everyone should take the day or two to read. Especially those who love the Scope and the other various 'Free Presses' that have sprung up in EVE.
For the capitalist in you, John Locke's 'Second Treatise of Government' is worth a read. Predates Rand by a few hundred years but holds a lot of the same principles.
For the not-so-capitalist in you, Rouseau's 'The Origins of Inequality' and 'The Social Contract' are time well spent. The style it is written in makes it worth reading (even in translation, which is odd).
All very old stuff, all available free online, and also available at Ye Olde Bookstore. Blame the philosopher in me for this post =============================== Deception + Information + Skill |
Mjr Tom
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:44:00 -
[18]
'The Prince' and 'The Art of War' are two of my three favourite books.
The third being 'Statecraft' by Margret Thatcher does not really relate to Eve.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2003.09.13 03:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Saladin on 13/09/2003 03:47:59 Sadly I have read neither, but have long since been on my to do list. Will probably read them after I am done with The Republic
Edit: Is Atlas Shrugged required reading for members of TTI? --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
ChandraGupta
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Posted - 2003.09.13 06:25:00 -
[20]
Read the Mahabharata.... I am no fanatic of my religion ... but u can pick up great points in there... of sense ,duty ,karm wat not. Great Epic :)
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.13 07:30:00 -
[21]
Anyone in the UK been watching "Time Commando's"?
Sun Tzu is a very interesting read - I like how it can apply to all walks of life not just battles.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 08:16:00 -
[22]
I would also add to that "The Book Of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Mushashi. An excellent contemplation of the role of the samurai swordsmen in warfare, with some excellent edicts and meditations on the art of tactical warfare. It is a core text for all Naginata pilots. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.09.13 09:57:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Li ShangYin on 13/09/2003 09:58:31 Atlas Shrugged isn't required reading for TTI employees, I don't think even a mayority have read it, it is afterall quite long and people do have more intresting things to do than read a book if they have EVE.
As for Sun, I recommend the denma groups translation, excellent read, Denma Translation from amazon.com I have it and 2 others next to my computer in the DStroy library close at hand at all times. 5Rings is also nice, but it's perhaps a little more hands on...
btw sonshi.com has several other classics in online form available incase you are bored and want to read something creative. As for Machiavelli, I'd rather not comment t0rfi, so far I've not seen many people use it in any efficient way in eve. Not that I don't like following their tries at it, but you know how things are....
Oh and if you want to mess up other people's corps, there's a new book out in paperback called Enron : an anatomy of greed or something, make a fake, join some corp and pull off some of that stuff if you're really bored, that's why those 2 other character slots really exist afterall...
___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
Irnaii
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:34:00 -
[24]
I read the TAO of Jeet Kune Do, very good book. I would also recommend the Hagakure, tho i forgot who wrote it... i am in a little hurry, so no time for links :)
Irnaii Personnel Manager NERD Inc.
.210879COM _ Design & Art |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:38:00 -
[25]
Quote: I read the TAO of Jeet Kune Do, very good book. I would also recommend the Hagakure, tho i forgot who wrote it... i am in a little hurry, so no time for links :)
Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do books are pants IMO. Just regurgitated, repackaged Toaism, with some of the Chinese classics thrown in for good measure.
As a kung fu instructor of many years standing, it always amazes me how many people actually thought Bruce Lee was some kind of philosphic genius.Jeet Kune Do is an imcomplete, nonsensical art at best, exploited to the hilt by his students in order for them to get rich of its creaters myth. Nevermind, one born every minute as they say.
Cult of personality is a powerful thing, as Mr Inosanto's accountant can no doubt confirm -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Irnaii
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:43:00 -
[26]
dear miso, the jeet kune do is not bs, for real. surely its not as deep as the tao-te-king, and yes it is more a unfinished work - but still a good read imho.
Irnaii Personnel Manager NERD Inc.
.210879COM _ Design & Art |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:45:00 -
[27]
Taoism is Dr Phil, it is what it is, live with it.
It offers nothing to those of us who are not experiencing anerysms [sp] on a daily basis.
Convert Stations
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:01:00 -
[28]
Quote: dear miso, the jeet kune do is not bs, for real. surely its not as deep as the tao-te-king, and yes it is more a unfinished work - but still a good read imho.
Yes I agree entirely - a very good read for those not acquainted with the fighting arts.
If you are, however, it is bland and uninteresting fare.
I do recommend you read "The Book Of Five Rings" however. A 17th C Japanese classic. Love Miso x -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:04:00 -
[29]
Quote: Anyone in the UK been watching "Time Commando's"?
Josh - im uk and have not heard of this? what is it sweetie? -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:50:00 -
[30]
Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
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