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Damaclease
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Posted - 2003.09.13 12:02:00 -
[31]
2 great books t0rfi But have you read any Iain M.Banks (notice th M to seperate this from his non-SciFi work) the idea of teh culture could very well fit into the Jove story line some of his best 1s Player of Games FeerSum Endjiin (not for the dyslexic surprisingly enough with the phonetic spelling he uses in sections ) Excession
Dama
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:16:00 -
[32]
I would of thought the Marquis de Sade and his friends would have far more relevence to EVE... I didn't know "Sun Tzu" (mmisspelled or not) knew anything about lagging people out with drones to win fights...then again the Dalai Lama plays Sim-City... learn a new thing everyday.
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Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:45:00 -
[33]
Quote: Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff.
Watched this the other night. Roman Empire, under Paulinus *i think* (The players) crushing the Celtic Tribal Rebellion under Boudica.
Players messed up baaaaaad and basically reversed the historical outcome. Romans got their skirts handed to them.
Well worth watching for anyone in the UK. Very entertaining La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs Star Fraction http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:58:00 -
[34]
Quote: I would also add to that "The Book Of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Mushashi. An excellent contemplation of the role of the samurai swordsmen in warfare, with some excellent edicts and meditations on the art of tactical warfare. It is a core text for all Naginata pilots.
Is that the one with Frodo in? -------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros> |
SpawnOfEvil
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Posted - 2003.09.13 15:53:00 -
[35]
You have to read some of Douglas Adams works. Great stuff.
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Erick Thakrar
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:02:00 -
[36]
Carl Von Clausewitz, while being an excellent tactician of his time suffered from the same problems that most Western leaders suffer from. It is a good text, but Sun Tzu offer a significantly more flexible approach. This has been proven time and time again. The reason Germany lost in WWI was mainly because of their adherence to the Prussian style of warfare. The Allied forces also relied on traditional western warfare, a war of attrition, for far too long which is one of the main reasons that so many lives were lost. When Allied commanders started employing principles advocated in Sun Tzu's texts the tide of battle turned fairly quickly. I can recommend The Art of Modern Warfare by Mark Mcneilly. It contains the full text of the Art of War and a large amount of examples of historical conflicts where the principles in The Art of War had a strong part in winning the battle. Comparisons range from pre-roman era battles to Desert Storm. A good read.
Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach? Ya Hya Chouhada!!! |
Erick Thakrar
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:04:00 -
[37]
Oops, forgot to mention. Book of Five Rings is a highly recommended read. Excellent stuff. And I can also recommend the Dune series. A more twisted web of political machinations and deeply hidden motivations is hard to find. Also has a heavy message about the importance of ecology. Ya Hya Chouhada!!! |
Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:48:00 -
[38]
"The first rule of jungle warfare is to obviously get rid of the jungle."
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.09.14 08:12:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Rath Amon on 14/09/2003 08:13:47 Just wanted to add that the best translation of "The Art of War" in my opinion is by Samuel B. Griffith (ISBN 0-19-501476-6). Extremely detailed background and copious footnotes plus the most 'modern' translation I've seen.
I'll also add my support for Victor Harris' translation of "A Book of Five Rings (Go Rin No Sho)" (ISBN 0-517-41528-3). Along with Gia-Fu Feng's excellent translation of "Tao Te Ching" (ISBN 0-394-71833-X) these three books are a good introduction to Oriental philosophy.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.14 11:28:00 -
[40]
Quote: Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach?
Southern Praying Mantis my dear. Very unusual style, not many genuine practitioners out there. If you are in the UK, the UK rep is Sifu Paul Whitrod, Australia, Sifu Paul Brennan. End of plug! :)
-------------------------------------------- Dead
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Reverend Mother
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Posted - 2003.09.14 12:16:00 -
[41]
these people recommending "the best translation"
have you read the original to be able to judge a translation ? and if so, why bother with translations if you can
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Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.09.15 08:45:00 -
[42]
The best translation is perhaps the wrong description, it's more the one you like the most. There are sometimes significant differences in various versions, ranging from different words to whole parts translated with a completely different meaning and sentence structure. Often there isn't even a real original available(Sun Tzu), but indeed fragments and parts found in various archeological digs and tombs which can be dated to around the time when the actual text most likely first appeared. As those parts and fragments most likely aren't the actual text anyways but something that a witness or the son or grandson of someone who knew the real details wrote the question of what is the real Sun Tzu becomes intresting.
The Denma group basically assumes the Art Of War is not a pure book written by 1 person with the name of Sun Tzu, but a collective effort of some generals around 2500 years ago to collect their basic and common practices so they can be tought to new generals, Sun Tzu if he existed would then be the first of those generals who started with it, along with most likely his son and other people closeby. Also the idea of written text at that time is somewhat vague, most likely the first versions of the Sun Tzu were told and not written down anyways.
Anyhow that's where the differences in translations and versions spring into place. Different signs in later written versions can be read one way or the other, add to that the option of actually translating a 3rd or 4th modified and edited version of the original text. Different tranlators to the english will also use different approaches to the ambiguous words and parts, some trying to stick to the exact wording in those parts if possible, others trying to make it into what makes sense.
My favoritism of the Denma group's translation also comes from the way it was made. Not one guy translating but several different people, anyways they have their own website at http://www.victoryoverwar.com/ which goes into more detail on how they made it happen.
As for the Book of 5 Rings, it's alot more recent and as such it's also easier to translate, the question of which version one wants to read if you don't have good japanese skills thus is more a question of what else comes along with the book. I've seen some barebone versions which contain very little other information and then there are those 500 page mammuth epic type translations which deliver a full history and god knows what else along with the actual text.
___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
ChironV
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Posted - 2003.09.15 10:12:00 -
[43]
One good series the devs should read is Mutineers' Moon followed by Armaggedon Inheritance. Author David Weber. Now those ships in the series are what I would love to see in Eve.
________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Tri HD
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:15:00 -
[44]
[ego]I'd kick Sun Tzu's ass anytime[/ego]
What would that make me?
'telefonkiosk' - it just popped into my head again all the sudden... |
MSDborris
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:33:00 -
[45]
Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watched this the other night. Roman Empire, under Paulinus *i think* (The players) crushing the Celtic Tribal Rebellion under Boudica.
Players messed up baaaaaad and basically reversed the historical outcome. Romans got their skirts handed to them.
Well worth watching for anyone in the UK. Very entertaining
Time commandos is on thursday night in the uk at 8pm on bbc2
***** " MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:51:00 -
[46]
If you are interested in the religious aspects of war at least form a legitamacy point of view. I would suggest reading many of the Papal Bulls from the middle ages. Particularly applicable to the Amarr v Minmatar area.
Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:59:00 -
[47]
Quote: Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
Kickboxing is a great form of exercise and a great sport, but no good for use in the street really. Will give you a bit of an edge in a street fight, but the problem with sport styles is you pad up and therefore practitioners are not used to taking blows - ie ur not conditioned. Also, you punch with a fist - inside of a glove that is fine, but do that on the street and you'll end up with a broken hand!
You could do some extra conditioning to work on your arms and hands so you get used to clashing skin on skin, so to speak. That would be very useful in a fight, beleive me -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.15 14:19:00 -
[48]
Quote: Carl Von Clausewitz, while being an excellent tactician of his time suffered from the same problems that most Western leaders suffer from. It is a good text, but Sun Tzu offer a significantly more flexible approach. This has been proven time and time again. The reason Germany lost in WWI was mainly because of their adherence to the Prussian style of warfare. The Allied forces also relied on traditional western warfare, a war of attrition, for far too long which is one of the main reasons that so many lives were lost. When Allied commanders started employing principles advocated in Sun Tzu's texts the tide of battle turned fairly quickly. I can recommend The Art of Modern Warfare by Mark Mcneilly. It contains the full text of the Art of War and a large amount of examples of historical conflicts where the principles in The Art of War had a strong part in winning the battle. Comparisons range from pre-roman era battles to Desert Storm. A good read.
Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach?
Whilst I haven't actually read Clausewitz so I can't comment on the specifics of that; The Art of War's a great book and well worth a read. However, I would take 'after the fact' applications of texts to winners and losers a bit like the books that do the same with Nostradmus etc. Interesting, but not suitable for saying that one set of writings is 'better' than another. You could equally apply Sun Tzu to the German war effort if you're selective in what you choose.
It would be hard to recommend a better pair of books than the original two listed though due to the ease with which they can be applied to numerous situations.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Beringe
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Posted - 2003.09.15 14:57:00 -
[49]
"The Prince" online
There are probably others, if you don't like the way they present the text here (with emphasis and such). ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:14:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Quote: Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
Kickboxing is a great form of exercise and a great sport, but no good for use in the street really. Will give you a bit of an edge in a street fight, but the problem with sport styles is you pad up and therefore practitioners are not used to taking blows - ie ur not conditioned. Also, you punch with a fist - inside of a glove that is fine, but do that on the street and you'll end up with a broken hand!
You could do some extra conditioning to work on your arms and hands so you get used to clashing skin on skin, so to speak. That would be very useful in a fight, beleive me
So kicking trees and hitting boards should help non? Kill those nasty nerve endings... :)
Also: What martial art(s) do you practice?
About Post:
Il Principe is truly excellent, I need to get on top of the Lao Tzu book.
----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" ----------------------------------------------- |
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:15:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Daesdemona on 15/09/2003 15:15:37 Il Principe
----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" ----------------------------------------------- |
Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Jim Hawkins on 15/09/2003 15:28:33 Well, it's all about war and power isn't it. I would recommend that you people read something like 'The Little Book of Calm' and chill out for a bit.
If only we could all get along like good little boys and girls, the world would be a much better place.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:28:00 -
[53]
Kicking trees is not adviseable! No, best to hit a live human opponent for conditioning. Start of nice and soft, and then finish off hard... and the same for the conditioning too. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Dominik
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Posted - 2003.09.15 18:56:00 -
[54]
I'm also a fan of Go Rin No Sho (Book of Five Rings) by Miyamoto Musashi.
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.09.15 19:48:00 -
[55]
Okay, for suggesting that ANYONE read Hegel, Karif is a bad, bad man. Hegel is easily one of the two hardest to understand of all western philosophers (the other being Heidegger).
For a solid philosophical grounding, I'd much rather everyone read On Certainty by Ludwig Wittgenstein, though like all German philosophers the English translations are a bit sloppy (given the differing levels of lingustic precision from topic to topic between the two languages)
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Hematic
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:23:00 -
[56]
Doesn't the base of what they say simply:
Know the variables you're dealing with?
In an online game I hate to say it but the variables are finite and easily grasped by about the second week.
Of course the game designers see that people have mastered their variables within short time, created manuals and references for others, then in an 'act of balancing' they skew the variables so they must be re-learned.
They repeat this vicious cycle until people are just sick of having the very physics of the game change each patch.
Of course that would assume there is actually competition in this game. There isn't.
Money? Well the single most expensive / money making endeavor is a miner II BP in the game. Hmmm and how were these distributed? Which chapter of your beloved common sense texts describes how to acquire them? Exactly none.
So one can listen to torifranz or illian about sun tzu this and that, but the reality is this:
If you know the vairables in which you work, you will find that work much easier to succeed at. Wow revelation.
On the flip side, success in this game is measured how? Oh right it isn't.
Fun in this game would be a little less BS GM interference by handing out things like miner II BPs and truly give everyone a chance at them by making them the rarest of drops from all different parts of the eve universe.
Face it torifranz, no one can "compete" in this game as long as people like you upset game balance by handing out overpowered items to a select few.
Sorry to be such an adam henry, but this game isn't about competition and you ought to know that. It now belongs to the other definition of game which is something amusing to pass the time.
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:36:00 -
[57]
Actually, I would prefer that new technology like the Miner 2 be distributed through research - not drops. It seems unlikely that the pirates have a well-developed industrial infrastructure necessary to design cutting-edge tech.
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Georg Inekn
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:40:00 -
[58]
Here's another title that may be of interest to anyone who's recently been podded, as I know that can be a depressing event in a pilot's life.
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:47:00 -
[59]
I'm kinda into global politics:
The Prize:: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power
The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:32:00 -
[60]
Okay, for suggesting that ANYONE read Hegel, Karif is a bad, bad man. Hegel is easily one of the two hardest to understand of all western philosophers
Yes, I inappropriately edited out the "If you have a few years to spend" part. It is certainly not a walk in the park, but the Lord/Bondsman section is relatively short and isn't that difficult to understand once you get past the idea of essentiality, and is certainly relevant to the whole Amarr/Minmatar political disagreement.
Not related to the topic, but since CCP is an Icelandic corp, I suppose a plug for things like Snorri's Edda, The Poetic Edda, and The Saga of the Volsungs would be in order =============================== Deception + Information + Skill |
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