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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.30 21:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
My suggestion is for CCP to hire out-of-game moderators for the forums.
I believe that it is too much to ask any player to moderate sensitive topics, because players may have a bias pulling them to one side or the other.
It is unfair to put the burden of remaining neutral onto a person (player volunteer) who may have a vested interest in the outcome of an in-game change or discussion.
Hiring outside non-player moderators may not prevent bias, but it will certainly help to keep the risk of bias to a minimum.
It may cost you some money, CCP; but it will help the community at large. The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1477
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Discussion of forum moderation or ISD conduct is against the forum rules. This thread will shortly be locked, and you will be advised to submit a petition if you believe you have a specific example of an ISD exhibiting such bias.
In the absence of any substantive reason to believe the ISDs are anything less than professional, I have to disagree with your proposal. ISDs are overseen by CCP's Internal Affairs, and the forums are watched by both volunteers and paid staff. There is no reason to discontinue what has been a longstanding and successful community program. Especially one that will by definition cost money and hurt feelings. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Discussion of forum moderation or ISD conduct is against the forum rules. This thread will shortly be locked, and you will be advised to submit a petition if you believe you have a specific example of an ISD exhibiting such bias.
In the absence of any substantive reason to believe the ISDs are anything less than professional, I have to disagree with your proposal. ISDs are overseen by CCP's Internal Affairs, and the forums are watched by both volunteers and developers. There is no reason to discontinue what has been a longstanding successful community program. Especially one that will necessarily cost money.
This is a discussion about CCP hiring employees to help run their business. The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Paranoid Loyd
373
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maybe if you didn't break the rules your topics would not be locked. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Maybe if you didn't break the rules your topics would not be locked.
Hey Loyd o/
Great to see you again.
Do you see any benefit to CCP hiring more people to help run their business? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Paranoid Loyd
373
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
No, the people doing it now for free, are doing a fine job. I would rather them use resources to develop the game, not patronize whiners.
The bias you perceive is because you can not step back and see the big picture and/or have not been around long enough to understand the game as a whole and how the intricate pieces work together. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Do you think that CCP could afford the extra employees that it would take? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Paranoid Loyd
373
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
I do not have access to their operating budget, none of us do, so to answer your question would be nothing but speculation. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:I do not have access to their operating budget, none of us do, so to answer your question would be nothing but speculation.
How much do you think it would cost to hire non-player employees to moderate forums? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Paranoid Loyd
374
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
The answer is 0 as there are already people doing it for 0.
Do you think that someone who does not understand the game could properly moderate these forums? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1477
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:The answer is 0 as there are already people doing it for 0.
Do you think that someone who does not understand the game could properly moderate these forums?
oh god this. Eve culture is pretty damn insular. Non players would certainly do a worse job. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 22:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The answer is 0 as there are already people doing it for 0.
Do you think that someone who does not understand the game could properly moderate these forums? oh god this. Eve culture is pretty damn insular. Non players would certainly do a worse job.
You think so? Why? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Discussion of forum moderation or ISD conduct is against the forum rules. This thread will shortly be locked, and you will be advised to submit a petition if you believe you have a specific example of an ISD exhibiting such bias.
In the absence of any substantive reason to believe the ISDs are anything less than professional, I have to disagree with your proposal. ISDs are overseen by CCP's Internal Affairs, and the forums are watched by both volunteers and paid staff. There is no reason to discontinue what has been a longstanding and successful community program. Especially one that will by definition cost money and hurt feelings. Successful? You've got to be kidding.
EVE-O forums have an awful reputation. It's collectively known as the "cesspool" of the EVE Community by the vast majority of large alliances and groups.
I put 99% of that blame onto the forum staff who rarely enforce policies strictly enough, particularly against posters who consistently ruin reasonable, logical discussions. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Are there any advantages to CCP hiring more employees? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Your Dad Naked wrote:
EVE-O forums have an awful reputation. It's collectively known as the "cesspool" of the EVE Community by the vast majority of large alliances and groups.
Would CCP hiring non-player employees help? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1041
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Posted - 2014.01.30 23:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Abdul 'aleem wrote:Batelle wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The answer is 0 as there are already people doing it for 0.
Do you think that someone who does not understand the game could properly moderate these forums? oh god this. Eve culture is pretty damn insular. Non players would certainly do a worse job. You think so? Why? because half the time, people are trying to be witty or make an inside joke to get a point across, that to an outside obseerver would seem to be a lack of content and/or breaking a rule.
on top of that, fuddy-duddy third parties dont sit around all day making jokes and generally being PART of the community that they moderate.
Your proposal OP, is tantamount to the US importing Mexican police forces because we cant trust americans to be unbiased in their law enforcement. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Your proposal OP, is tantamount to the US importing Mexican police forces because we cant trust americans to be unbiased in their law enforcement.
Is it really like that? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1041
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Posted - 2014.01.30 23:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your Dad Naked wrote:Batelle wrote:Discussion of forum moderation or ISD conduct is against the forum rules. This thread will shortly be locked, and you will be advised to submit a petition if you believe you have a specific example of an ISD exhibiting such bias.
In the absence of any substantive reason to believe the ISDs are anything less than professional, I have to disagree with your proposal. ISDs are overseen by CCP's Internal Affairs, and the forums are watched by both volunteers and paid staff. There is no reason to discontinue what has been a longstanding and successful community program. Especially one that will by definition cost money and hurt feelings. Successful? You've got to be kidding. EVE-O forums have an awful reputation. It's collectively known as the "cesspool" of the EVE Community by the vast majority of large alliances and groups. I put 99% of that blame onto the forum staff who rarely enforce policies strictly enough, particularly against posters who consistently ruin reasonable, logical discussions. it has an awful reputation in the same way EVE does, people are naturally pessimistic, over-analytical, over-critical, and just plain anti-social around these parts.
not to mention, after the same bad idea has been proposed in 200 threads, by 50 people, some of which are still alts of ones who have already posted the same thread multiple times, EVERY month, contributes to the forum-goers poor disposition. |
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: it has an awful reputation in the same way EVE does, people are naturally pessimistic, over-analytical, over-critical, and just plain anti-social around these parts.
not to mention, after the same bad idea has been proposed in 200 threads, by 50 people, some of which are still alts of ones who have already posted the same thread multiple times, EVERY month, contributes to the forum-goers poor disposition.
Do you think that non-player employees would be incapable of moderating the forums? The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
20634
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think there probably is a bit of bias moderation happening in these forums. Not to mention large Alliances and Corps as well as multiple characters owned by the same IP address meta-gaming and spam posting in order to promote or shut down specific threads.
Can't help that and if you feel it is happening just file a complaint with Customer Service.
DMC |
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Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I think there probably is a bit of bias moderation happening in these forums. Not to mention large Alliances and Corps as well as multiple characters owned by the same IP address meta-gaming and spam posting in order to promote or shut down specific threads.
Can't help that and if you feel it is happening just file a complaint with Customer Service.
DMC
The option for players report biased moderation by opening Help (F12) and filing a support ticket under the "Rules & Policies" group and "Game Masters & ISD" is definitely there.
I am just wondering if non-players would be able do the job effectively or not.....
Usually (but not always) paid employees in businesses perform better than volunteers.
There are many factors though, and it is not always the case. The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion
Click "like" in the original post to support it. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2010
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Abdul 'aleem wrote:Batelle wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:The answer is 0 as there are already people doing it for 0.
Do you think that someone who does not understand the game could properly moderate these forums? oh god this. Eve culture is pretty damn insular. Non players would certainly do a worse job. You think so? Why?
How about you answer why? You started the thread. You make claims of bias, but simply making the claims does not make it true. In my opinion the current forum staff does a good job and I cannot think of any blatant bias that I have seen.
So far you have failed to back up your assertions with anything. Until then there is little point in talking about anything else. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
370
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Funny thing about hiring contractors/outside labor....when brought on they apply the very same policies employees do. You'd still have the same thread locks and corrections and deletions going on.
Can't have 2 rules for a company dude. My work place I have my LOI's and SOP"s and compliance guidelines I have to follow. When we bring on contractors all these apply to them as well.
So ccp would spend money to have contractors do the same thing ccp employees do really. Or they can like now jsut have CCP XYZ while taking a break from looking at code to swing by the forums. Get more bang for the buck with the additional duties as required part I'd bet isk this falls under in thier Position description. I know my additional duties as required is one hell of a catch all in my position description lol. |
Paranoid Loyd
374
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Funny thing about hiring contractors/outside labor....when brought on they apply the very same policies employees do. You'd still have the same thread locks and corrections and deletions going on.
Can't have 2 rules for a company dude. My work place I have my LOI's and SOP"s and compliance guidelines I have to follow. When we bring on contractors all these apply to them as well.
So ccp would spend money to have contractors do the same thing ccp employees do really. Or they can like now jsut have CCP XYZ while taking a break from looking at code to swing by the forums. Get more bang for the buck with the additional duties as required part I'd bet isk this falls under in thier Position description. I know my additional duties as required is one hell of a catch all in my position description lol.
Do you also have to file TPS reports? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1099
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 06:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Abdul 'aleem wrote:Hiring outside non-player moderators may not prevent bias, but it will certainly help to keep the risk of bias to a minimum.
Do you have any proof of the moderators being bias, if not this thread is pointless rumor mongering, which is against forums rules. If you have actual proof, you are discussing forum moderation, which also is against forum rules.
I predict this thread being closed, not because the moderators are bias, but because you are breaking the rules. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2671
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 06:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think the ISDs are doing a fantastic job. We don't need outside moderators just because you got a thread locked (which would have got a locked a lot faster if we had outside moderators). Oh god. |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1088
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 08:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
Thread locked.
If you believe ISD are taking biased decisions, please file a support ticket to get our CCP superiors to look into it. We have strict rules about neutrality, and instructions to never touch anything we may have a conflict of interest over. Any breach of these rules and instructions is serious, and CCP needs to look into it, so please report it. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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