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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
123
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Posted - 2014.02.17 23:24:00 -
[211] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails.
The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
269
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Posted - 2014.02.18 02:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
Given that most of the Posts in this thread that talk about the acquisition process of the Nestor(versus the rest talking about the merits of the ship itself or it relation in performance to other ships), mostly point to were the Anoms/Sigs are and the LP Store that sells it cheaper. How about the other side of the equation, Making the LP easier to get?
Ideas: - More Locations with SoE Agents? - ESS SoE Edition? (for the most part it is a Faction based in Empire Space :) )
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.18 04:15:00 -
[213] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place
20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2041
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Posted - 2014.02.18 23:01:00 -
[214] - Quote
Eve Central: Vindicator: 935,891,115 (Jita) Gank Vindy Max dps is 1694 Nestor: 1,587,996,285.00 (Jita) Reps 4k dps onto itself (4 mins), or 3.3 k sustained, 475 dps from drones, and EHP = 146k, 80% resists across the board.
Price is not so out of line.
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Kogh Ayon
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
168
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Posted - 2014.02.19 08:51:00 -
[215] - Quote
I love the trend to nerf high-sec, however I have to agree with the carebears that allowing NPC to drop items in LP store is very bad game design.
It might be temporary good to balance the high-sec and null but it really against the spirit of "sandbox game", that value of items are driven by players' need and decision to produce. Allowing NPC to drop items from LP store, not only for the idea about dropping SOE bpcs but also for any pirate faction bpcs, often does not show the will and decision made by players, because players are receiving the bpcs passively as a result of the looting table, because the reason players do anomaly/exploration/belt ratting is not to get factional bpcs (people run sites to get any item that can sell for isk).
NPC dropping LP store items can be compared to T2 BPOs, enhancing it just go against the good trend. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
618
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Posted - 2014.02.19 09:56:00 -
[216] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place 20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps
You wouldn't attack an rr Nestor fleet with vindicators. You'd use 50 Dominix or ishtars and alpha them from beyond their attack range.
Nestor will not work in a large fleet.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.19 11:04:00 -
[217] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
You wouldn't attack an rr Nestor fleet with vindicators. You'd use 50 Dominix or ishtars and alpha them from beyond their attack range.
Nestor will not work in a large fleet.
You wouldnt sit outside your attack range while beeing shot at either, unless your in 0.0/WH and your in a bubble...
Ill give you that, in a sniper vs close range fight the sniper comes out on top as long as they can keep range.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2042
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Posted - 2014.02.19 19:02:00 -
[218] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Nestor will not work in a large fleet. Almost all faction pirate ships do not work well in a large fleet. (Do any pirate faction hulls work in large fleets? Maybe Macherial?) |
Xtream Cowgirl Miner
Disturbed Gamers Industry Explicit Associates
0
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Posted - 2014.02.19 23:04:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kogh Ayon wrote:I love the trend to nerf high-sec, however I have to agree with the carebears that allowing NPC to drop items in LP store is very bad game design.
It might be temporary good to balance the high-sec and null but it really against the spirit of "sandbox game", that value of items are driven by players' need and decision to produce. Allowing NPC to drop items from LP store, not only for the idea about dropping SOE bpcs but also for any pirate faction bpcs, often does not show the will and decision made by players, because players are receiving the bpcs passively as a result of the looting table, because the reason players do anomaly/exploration/belt ratting is not to get factional bpcs (people run sites to get any item that can sell for isk).
NPC dropping LP store items can be compared to T2 BPOs, enhancing it just go against the good trend.
Unironic Goon vs boost to any space not under goon control posting.
Never mind your current stranglehold on cheap BPCs, never mind that little gem of a gift from CCP to you. Never mind you can obtain faction BPCs thru agents for those factions AS WELL as dropping from Commander level rats, ie http://www.ellatha.com/eve/lp/Guristas.
So please, tell me how allowing NPC's to drop items from LP store is so bad? Working as intended.
edit >> Also it may not have gone thru what passes as a mind for a Goon BUT the chip will need to be handed in at I am assuming an SOE station to obtain the BPC. I personally find that inellegant coding but I suppose having drones just drop the bpc's would be too easy for CCP :D |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
125
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Posted - 2014.02.20 01:33:00 -
[220] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place 20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps When thinking in terms of a gang, I figure around 10 to 15 people, much over that it has become a fleet which generally fights very differently to a gang. Actually you don't need to alpha it, just bring EWAR and tackle. Remote reps are not worth a pinch of **** if they can't be applied.
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.20 07:41:00 -
[221] - Quote
Nobody would fly a 10-15man gang with Nestors for 2b each ship, but since this is a thread about new ways to get Nestor we can safely assume the price will get even lower. So cost is not a factor at this time since we have no idea where it will end up
In that case, a 10-15man Nestor gang have around 10-17k tank. So in a 15 man gang you can EWAR 5 of them out of the fight and they still tank 10k dps.
This would mean that a 15 man gang use atleast 1-2 ships for EWAR and a few logi to get anywhere close to that tank. Leaving 10ish dps ships that have to do more than 10k dps total. With no EWAR or Logi ships you need over 1k dps from each of 15 ships,, and here you would clearly die as you have no chance to tank 15 drone ships with local tank.
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Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
57
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Posted - 2014.02.20 16:51:00 -
[222] - Quote
This will certainly lower the price for the SOE ships quite a bit. They are allready a really rare sight and the demand for those ships is not that much. I can see it in the future somewhere between 600-800mil for a nestor. Its better then the rattlesnake but not by much. And the current price is just too much cause for that ISK you could get a carrier instead. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
58
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Posted - 2014.02.20 20:45:00 -
[223] - Quote
is CCP going to release Sister's of Eve Capital Class ships in the Dreadnought and Carrier design? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
932
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Posted - 2014.02.21 07:31:00 -
[224] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. ohnoz mai highsec carebear income stream cannot compete with other-than-highsec income!!1 nerf nerf!
Do the blueprint copies require a nexus chip in the production? Would make sense and also explain why the SOE is so willing to hand out these BPCs for nexus chips. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
631
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Posted - 2014.02.21 08:26:00 -
[225] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Nobody would fly a 10-15man gang with Nestors for 2b each ship, but since this is a thread about new ways to get Nestor we can safely assume the price will get even lower. So cost is not a factor at this time since we have no idea where it will end up In that case, a 10-15man Nestor gang have around 10-17k tank. So in a 15 man gang you can EWAR 5 of them out of the fight and they still tank 10k dps. This would mean that a 15 man gang use atleast 1-2 ships for EWAR and a few logi to get anywhere close to that tank. Leaving 10ish dps ships that have to do more than 10k dps total. With no EWAR or Logi ships you need over 1k dps from each of 15 ships,, and here you would clearly die as you have no chance to tank 15 drone ships with local tank.
I think you'll find 15 tornadoes will alpha a Nestor in pretty much all standard configurations. A 15 man nestor squad would represent a lot of risk to the nestors without a lot more gained over a 15 man Dominix gang.
Particularly since the tornadoes could engage beyond drone control range.
RR spiders are viable for niche applications. For example they would protect w-space ratters against most casual threats.
However a 15-man Nestor squad in 0-sec or lowsec is begging to be engaged by all manner of fleets. Its lack of mobility will ensure its early destruction. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2933
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Posted - 2014.02.21 11:01:00 -
[226] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:is CCP going to release Sister's of Eve Capital Class ships in the Dreadnought and Carrier design? Does it get a Covert Ops cloak? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.21 11:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I think you'll find 15 tornadoes will alpha a Nestor in pretty much all standard configurations. A 15 man nestor squad would represent a lot of risk to the nestors without a lot more gained over a 15 man Dominix gang.
Particularly since the tornadoes could engage beyond drone control range. [/quote]
So we are back to alpha ships beeing better against something with remote reps, and snipers that can dictate range over shorter ranged ships.
What it does have over a Dominix fleet is alot stronger tank (not EHP but tank over time)
That 15man tornado gang would need tha range to survive, let the Nestors get to close and its dead.
Fleets that are made with the sole purpose of killing Nestors will ofc win a fight, but show me ONE subcap ship that can take on a fleet its own size thats made to kill it. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
634
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Posted - 2014.02.21 12:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Fleets that are made with the sole purpose of killing Nestors will ofc win a fight, but show me ONE subcap ship that can take on a fleet its own size thats made to kill it.
That surely depends on the size of fleet.
I am sure you know that I am not claiming that this or that is better than nestors, I'm just pointing out that there is a limit to the survivability of a RR gang of anything, and that limit is not dictated by remote repping power - it's actually dictated by EHP.
In the example of artillery tornadoes against the nestor spider:
a) artillery tornadoes in groups of 15 are effective against most ships, not just nestors. b) the Nestors would never get close enough to drop sentries that could hit*. They'd have no choice but to bug out after losing a couple of ships.
* there's a possible scenario in which the nesters all have MJD and awesome fleet piloting skills where they would stand a chance of engaging the tornadoes and forcing them off grid. Do you know 15 pilots you trust to be awesome enough? Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2058
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:54:00 -
[229] - Quote
Those 15 Nestors have ample midslots for sensor boosters and damps. Anyways, at some point no ship can withstand "because of alpha", but that doesn't make the ships useless. It only makes them useless outside their role. Or, hey, these Nestors can rep insane amounts, why not use fewer of them and replace some of them with other ships to counter "Alpha Tornado Fleet"?
The "alpha" argument relegates all ships from destroyers on up to super caps as "useless" because of "why did CCP invent them anyways, they'll just get alpha'd". |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
635
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Posted - 2014.02.21 18:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
my position is that RR is a niche application. I have not argued that a Nestor is useless, merely that it has a limited role which will have to have an impact on desirability, regardless of price.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.21 23:04:00 -
[231] - Quote
Nestor also have a nice range bonus to RR, making it alot better suited than any other batttleship. The fact that people have used RR battleships with 50% of the range seems to indicate that ther is a use for this kind of ship.
Biggest problem with the Nestor ATM is the price, with these chips dropping the price will drop to where its worth using the ship for whatever purpose they buyer see fit |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
643
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Posted - 2014.02.21 23:10:00 -
[232] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Nestor also have a nice range bonus to RR, making it alot better suited than any other batttleship. The fact that people have used RR battleships with 50% of the range seems to indicate that ther is a use for this kind of ship.
Biggest problem with the Nestor ATM is the price, with these chips dropping the price will drop to where its worth using the ship for whatever purpose they buyer see fit
I am keen to understand how 16km rep range is manifestly different to an 8km rep range.
I don't know whether you have tried the Nestor on sisi in a rr gang? I have. Mobility is a real issue even with the extended range.
RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.21 23:15:00 -
[233] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine.
As long as there is a use for it, i dont care where it is. Diffrence between 8 and 16km means that your less likely to be out of rep range of any ship. That people have used RR BS in PvP with good effect before kind of prove that its possible to do even if its hard |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
644
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Posted - 2014.02.21 23:26:00 -
[234] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote: RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine.
As long as there is a use for it, i dont care where it is. Diffrence between 8 and 16km means that your less likely to be out of rep range of any ship. That people have used RR BS in PvP with good effect before kind of prove that its possible to do even if its hard
Yes, it's possible. Yes, it is done. Yes, it is a limited niche role, which is a shame for a brand new ship that could have been interesting.
As I mentioned, 16km proved to be a problem in the test fights my squad undertook in the Nestor on sisi. In skirmish pvp, it's really hard to keep a fleet in range of 70km logi ships, let alone 16km pretend logi ships.
Try it and see. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.21 23:52:00 -
[235] - Quote
So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game.
After that point, its all about how the meta changes over time and only time will tell how effective it will be.
Anyway, this is not realy the place to talk about Nestor usage in PvE/PvE but about what these changes may do with what impact these chips dropping wil have on economy and SoE ship usage/price |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2935
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Posted - 2014.02.22 03:34:00 -
[236] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
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Posted - 2014.02.22 09:49:00 -
[237] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely.
Considering we are posting in s thread about new ways to get the ship, that means price will be regulated by supply/demand and not by SoE LP price. If we can agree that there are roles this thing does better than other ships, and we know that this role have been used before with less effective ships, its only a matter of time before it get cheap enough to use |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2014.02.24 01:14:00 -
[238] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely. Considering we are posting in s thread about new ways to get the ship, that means price will be regulated by supply/demand and not by SoE LP price. If we can agree that there are roles this thing does better than other ships, and we know that this role have been used before with less effective ships, its only a matter of time before it get cheap enough to use
There is a bit of an obsession in this thread with the Nestor which is arguably a lameduck regardless of price
What is more interesting is the potential effect on the Astero and Statios, ships which do see considerable current use. I know of people that regularly do losec roams in Astero gangs with considerable success. Their Astero loss to ships killed ratio is quite good and they often take on much larger ships including T3s. I am also aware of groups that use the Astero as their primary tackle boat who claim they rarely lose one. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
33
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Posted - 2014.02.24 05:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches..... Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4827
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:39:00 -
[240] - Quote
As far as the Nestor is concerned, seeing how underwhelming the thing is (and seeing how they didn't want to make something powerful enough to justify it's price) I'm now of the opinion that CCP would have been better advised to not waste time on introducing it in the 1st place. The Stratios and Astero are great, but even if it were the same price as a Rattlesnake, the Nestor just isn't worth it. |
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