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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
109
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Posted - 2014.01.31 13:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
My proposal is for all Attributes to be removed for the following reasons:
- Attributes like Willpower should add to your Magic power in rpg's not to your ability to learn Trade or Spaceship Command skills faster.
- If for example attributes would directly effect your resistance vs ewar or apply critical damage more often, again think traditional rpg's, then maybe they function like they should do in rpg's.
- Attributes can only be neural remapped once per year (not including the two extra remaps as a new player) which means after a year players have to adjust their training plan to this, once per year remap, which will limit their decision making in an open world.
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
- Like mission agent quality it adds a level of complexity that will not improve eve's open world gameplay, and only possible hinder it (I do miss mining/distribution agents handing out security missions !!)
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
109
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Posted - 2014.01.31 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
If or rather when CCP decides to get rid of attributes and rebalance the system like they did with Learning Skills,
they have an excellent opportunity to add new player made implants that enhances a standardized training time by 1%~5%.
These new training time multiplier implants can only be made with materials CCP wants to release in the new Ghost Sites
The CSM should be involved about what to do with the current leaning implants in the game to convert to these new implants. Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
164
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Posted - 2014.01.31 17:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:If or rather when CCP decides to get rid of attributes and rebalance the system like they did with Learning Skills, they have an excellent opportunity to add new player made implants that enhances a standardized training time by 1%~5%
Wait... you want to get rid of attributes, but retain implants that affect training time?
That's incredibly bizarre. Death to attributes for sure... but the whole reason why you'd be doing that would be to kill implants affecting attributes affecting training time, and the perverse incentives those implants cause. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
110
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Posted - 2014.01.31 18:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Endovior wrote: Wait... you want to get rid of attributes, but retain implants that affect training time?
That's incredibly bizarre. Death to attributes for sure... but the whole reason why you'd be doing that would be to kill implants affecting attributes affecting training time, and the perverse incentives those implants cause.
When Attributes are rid of like the learning skills, you still need to passive time train skills.
Redoing skill training entirely would be Madness
So an standardized training time, for example 2k sp/hr is set for everyone.
Here is an excellent opportunity to introduce new player made implants and promote ghost sites (ergo exploration as a career).
For example a 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% or a 5% implants would increase this basic standardized training passive skill training time.
At the moment your training time is calculated with your attribute levels and/ or fitted attribute implants.
So the whole reason why I would want for attributes to go is that it should not effect anything in this space game.
Passive sp/hr will still apply on learning the skills, with perhaps an added bonus of player made implants to increase this slightly.
(to be clear for any future remarks I am not advocating actively skilling up, again this is not a tradition adventure game/rpg, but a simpler continuation of passive skilling with maybe extra content in the form of player made implants) Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13609
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Posted - 2014.02.01 13:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
Every possible bit of evidence that we have available indicates that people who don't PvP because they're scared of losing their implants still won't PvP if you take implants out of the game, because they'll just find something else to be scared about.
My contempt for people who don't want to risk their implents and so campaign for the rest of us not even to be allowed to make that choice is infinite. If you're scared of losing your implants, then don't use implants. But why shouldn't I be allowed to risk mine just because you're too gutless to risk yours?
1 Kings 12:11
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Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
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Posted - 2014.02.01 18:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
Every possible bit of evidence that we have available indicates that people who don't PvP because they're scared of losing their implants still won't PvP if you take implants out of the game, because they'll just find something else to be scared about. My contempt for people who don't want to risk their implents and so campaign for the rest of us not even to be allowed to make that choice is infinite. If you're scared of losing your implants, then don't use implants. But why shouldn't I be allowed to risk mine just because you're too gutless to risk yours?
But people who do PVP (especially in nullsec, where pod death is pretty much guaranteed) would benefit greatly from not blowing 20-25 mil every death on +3's every death. Therefore they would have more money to spend on more ship to die more and stimulate the economy.
Seriously, what learning implants do is ensure the optimal option for fast character advancement is never undock. If I want a carrier pilot fast, i sit it in station with +5's and do nothing until it's ready to sit in a carrier. I can't use the carrier support skills to run a decent logistics pilot in the meantime.
CSM plz An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department. Were you wronged by a member of our fine space guild? We can get you the compensation you deserve. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13612
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Posted - 2014.02.01 18:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Angry Mustache wrote:Malcanis wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
Every possible bit of evidence that we have available indicates that people who don't PvP because they're scared of losing their implants still won't PvP if you take implants out of the game, because they'll just find something else to be scared about. My contempt for people who don't want to risk their implents and so campaign for the rest of us not even to be allowed to make that choice is infinite. If you're scared of losing your implants, then don't use implants. But why shouldn't I be allowed to risk mine just because you're too gutless to risk yours? But people who do PVP (especially in nullsec, where pod death is pretty much guaranteed) would benefit greatly from not blowing 20-25 mil every death on +3's every death. Therefore they would have more money to spend on more ship to die more and stimulate the economy. Seriously, what learning implants do is ensure the optimal option for fast character advancement is never undock. If I want a carrier pilot fast, i sit it in station with +5's and do nothing until it's ready to sit in a carrier. I can't use the carrier support skills to run a decent logistics pilot in the meantime. CSM plz
Pod death is "pretty much guaranteed"?
Man I must have been doing something wrong all these years, because I've only lost a couple of dozen pods since 2006.
Again, if you don't like losing implants, no one is forcing you to use them. Those of us who can manage incredibly advanced combat skills like getting an instawarping pod out would like to carry on using implants even if you're too convinced of your own inevitable failures to put a few mil on the line.
1 Kings 12:11
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Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
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Posted - 2014.02.01 18:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Pod death is "pretty much guaranteed"? Man I must have been doing something wrong all these years, because I've only lost a couple of dozen pods since 2006. Again, if you don't like losing implants, no one is forcing you to use them. Those of us who can manage incredibly advanced combat skills like getting an instawarping pod out would like to carry on using implants even if you're too convinced of your own inevitable failures to put a few mil on the line.
It's a matter of optimal and sub optimal. If you don't have at least two +3 implants in, you are training skillpoints at a greatly reduced rate. +3's means 2550 SP/ hour, blank clones mean 2250, a 10% difference in SP training speed., not at all negligible, and if you are new enough to have mediocre income, the hit to wallet can be felt pretty hard.
As to pod death, I guess my perspective is skewed because I picked a name that starts with A, then chose to only fly dictor/logi/scouts.
An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department. Were you wronged by a member of our fine space guild? We can get you the compensation you deserve. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13617
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
So in essence your problem is not that it's not already trivially possible for you to operate without risking implant loss, because it is, what you hate is that people like me are prepared to take that risk and reap the benefit from it.
What you want to do is remove that option from my gameplay.
Why on earth should I support the removal of my options because you're too chickenshit to run the risk yourself?
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13617
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Riddle me this:
Tens of thousands of players do undock and PvP with implants every day
[An unknown number] of players are to scared to undock and PvP with implants and refuse to jump clone to an empty clone
Why is the first group the problem that needs fixing here?
1 Kings 12:11
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Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2014.02.02 07:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think attributes, remaps and implants add a little depth to the game and should be retained. There's an extra layer of thought and risk required to optimise training time / isk / jump clone timers etc. If you live in null (you need bad luck to lose pods in empire) replacing a couple of +2 or +3 implants doesn't take long at all.
Medical clone costs, however, are painful due to their being all but compulsory. I'm up for protecting younger characters, but feel that clone costs should level-off a bit after a certain number of SP. After all, your income doesn't just keep increasing without limit, and frigate roams are annoying when the clone cost is literally 100x the hull cost.
I'd say that at clone level pi (54.6M SP, 5.46M ISK) the costs should either stop increasing, or the cost per SP should remain constant. At that level it's 1 ISK per 10 SP, so a tau clone, for example, would then cost 12M ISK - still a chunk of change, but more palatable. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
20
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Posted - 2014.02.03 15:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Angry Mustache wrote:Malcanis wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
Every possible bit of evidence that we have available indicates that people who don't PvP because they're scared of losing their implants still won't PvP if you take implants out of the game, because they'll just find something else to be scared about. My contempt for people who don't want to risk their implents and so campaign for the rest of us not even to be allowed to make that choice is infinite. If you're scared of losing your implants, then don't use implants. But why shouldn't I be allowed to risk mine just because you're too gutless to risk yours? But people who do PVP (especially in nullsec, where pod death is pretty much guaranteed) would benefit greatly from not blowing 20-25 mil every death on +3's every death. Therefore they would have more money to spend on more ship to die more and stimulate the economy. Seriously, what learning implants do is ensure the optimal option for fast character advancement is never undock. If I want a carrier pilot fast, i sit it in station with +5's and do nothing until it's ready to sit in a carrier. I can't use the carrier support skills to run a decent logistics pilot in the meantime. CSM plz
i spend more than that on just my clone with no implants at 54m a clone |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
218
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:
- Getting higher attributes through implants makes players less at ease to engage in pvp, if you are flying around with +5's in your clone and you spot a war target or do a quick losec run, you might not want to risk any engagement due to cost vs reward factor. (sure you can clone jump, but by then opportunities might have vanished and you are to late and maybe log off)
Every possible bit of evidence that we have available indicates that people who don't PvP because they're scared of losing their implants still won't PvP if you take implants out of the game, because they'll just find something else to be scared about. My contempt for people who don't want to risk their implents and so campaign for the rest of us not even to be allowed to make that choice is infinite. If you're scared of losing your implants, then don't use implants. But why shouldn't I be allowed to risk mine just because you're too gutless to risk yours? Its more the other way around honestly. It penalizes people like me who run around with only cheap hardwirings plugged in. I don't see why avoiding pvp altogether should lead to decreased training times. I can easily afford 50 mill a clone. I can't afford 500mill, and sincerely doubt any real pvp'ers would ever consider running around with +5's in their heads. If they do have that type of money they are much better off still putting with lower training times by getting snakes or other "effect" implants. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13819
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Posted - 2014.02.09 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
I just use +4s. I've never felt "crippled" because I trained like 3.5% slower or whatever.
1 Kings 12:11
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Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1664
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Posted - 2014.02.10 07:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
EVE is an adventure game!
If you haven't found Candy Mountain yet, then get out or biomass...... I'd suggest you use fire! But whatever gets the job done. Stargates aren't located within POS shields. The stargate itself and everyone around it is vulnerable to attack. So why is a Titan located within a POS shield when a Jump Portal is activated? The Titans should not be allowed complete safety! |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1163
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Posted - 2014.02.15 08:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I just use +4s. I've never felt "crippled" because I trained like 3.5% slower or whatever.
I just use +3's myself. I've always felt that min/maxing destroys the fun of any game.
Anyway, remove implants, the averse will claim ship cost as a reason to not-PVP Remove ship cost, they'll claim module costs. Remove module cost, they'll claim lost "time" Remove time, they'll claim KB stats.....
With the ease of getting a jumpclone nowdays, implant loss shouldn't even be in consideration....ohh, forgot. 24 hours of "time" lost. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
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