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01101989
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.31 23:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. |
Dersk
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
194
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Posted - 2014.01.31 23:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.
Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple. |
Thur Barbek
Republic University Minmatar Republic
273
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Posted - 2014.02.01 00:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
So, go build your own poco. Then you can collect this "free" isk you speak of.
If you encounters difficulties then maybe its not so free to obtain/upkeep these. |
01101989
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.02.01 17:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dersk wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple.
I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless. |
01101989
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.02.01 17:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:So, go build your own poco. Then you can collect this "free" isk you speak of.
If you encounters difficulties then maybe its not so free to obtain/upkeep these.
They are too expensive and there are no free planets in high-sec. If I could guarantee a free planet, okay, maybe, but there aren't any. The older corps already have a complete monopoly over this aspect of the game. The tax needs to be lowered substantially. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
378
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Posted - 2014.02.01 17:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Thur Barbek wrote:So, go build your own poco. Then you can collect this "free" isk you speak of.
If you encounters difficulties then maybe its not so free to obtain/upkeep these. They are too expensive and there are no free planets in high-sec. If I could guarantee a free planet, okay, maybe, but there aren't any. The older corps already have a complete monopoly over this aspect of the game. The tax needs to be lowered substantially.
Do PI in wormholes.
PI in highsec sucks anyways.
Also, join a corp. That way you can "own" the planets in your wormhole. |
Psade
Blind Avarice
32
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Posted - 2014.02.01 19:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
With the new NPC reduction skill, there are plenty of planets in high sec that are now less costly in terms of taxes than before Rubicon was launched. Yes, a corp that spent 70m to launch a POCO is now earning 150k of the taxes you used to spend anyway. Try not to let it ruin your life. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
319
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
It was intended as a mechanism to foster pewpew in hi-sec, and to push players out to other areas for PI. Don't think the first one worked out quite as well as they hoped. The second, might work out a bit better. And if not, then the price of PI materials will rise and then it could be worthwhile to pay "outrageous" POCO taxes. |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
6
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them.
I disagree. And I've just used as many facts and solid numbers as you did. Just a sidenote - 'unfair' has rarely to do anything with game design/balance. |
01101989
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.02.02 00:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. I disagree. And I've just used as many facts and solid numbers as you did. Just a sidenote - 'unfair' has rarely to do anything with game design/balance. You're joking, right? Fairness has everything to do with balance and design. |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
668
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Posted - 2014.02.02 02:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. This is unfair!... It reminded me of something my six year old son would say and I almost spit my soda out from laughing...
Eve is all about PVP. PI is no exception. If you want lower PI tax join a corp that has POCO's
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
96492
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Posted - 2014.02.02 12:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jeez, just do it in Low Sec. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
7
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Posted - 2014.02.02 12:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. I disagree. And I've just used as many facts and solid numbers as you did. Just a sidenote - 'unfair' has rarely to do anything with game design/balance. You're joking, right? Fairness has everything to do with balance and design.
What I meant is that fairness is a subjective term(and on a smaller scale) , while game balance approaches the situation from all directions. An example would be that it's unfair that frigates have lower dps than battleships, but it's balanced because they are cheaper, faster, ect.
Taxes balance out relative safeness of highsec. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
668
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Jeez, just do it in Low Sec.
No it's unfair in lowsec because mean pirates want to do bad things to my ship! |
01101989
Order of the Sacred Golden Cog
12
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Posted - 2014.02.02 17:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. I disagree. And I've just used as many facts and solid numbers as you did. Just a sidenote - 'unfair' has rarely to do anything with game design/balance. You're joking, right? Fairness has everything to do with balance and design. What I meant is that fairness is a subjective term(and on a smaller scale) , while game balance approaches the situation from all directions. An example would be that it's unfair that frigates have lower dps than battleships, but it's balanced because they are cheaper, faster, ect. Taxes balance out relative safeness of highsec.
Well said, but I disagree. It would be perfectly logical to say that it is fair, rather than unfair, that frigates have lower DPS than battleships because they are cheaper and faster. In other words, it is fair because those few opposing attributes balance them, their strengths and weaknesses offset each other in practice. But it would be unfair if for example the frigate had such low dps that is made their cheapness and speed irrelevant while the battleship remained useful; that is if the scale was tipped slight in favor of the battleship.
So in respect to the PI, fairness would mean that the pros and cons of buying and owning a POCO and the costs associated with PI offset each other perfectly, that is balanced each other out. But they don't in reality because the tax rate is above and beyond a reasonable percentage compared to the ultimate practical sale price of the PI commodity. There are other ethical issues involved too however: One is for example that the current POCO system gives older players and large corps an extremely unfair advantage over noobs since only experienced players and corps can afford them in the first place, while the noob is forced into servile industry.
Also the safeness argument isn't really fair either. PI isn't so lucrative in the first place to warrant the dangers of low-sec and most likely guaranteed death. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2015
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Posted - 2014.02.02 17:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them.
Pure win. Totally airtight argument. "I don't like this, make it go away" |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 19:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them.
You are clearly not getting the point of this game... My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Laukus Blasterton
penguins are your nefarious end Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2014.02.03 03:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them. I disagree. And I've just used as many facts and solid numbers as you did. Just a sidenote - 'unfair' has rarely to do anything with game design/balance. You're joking, right? Fairness has everything to do with balance and design. What I meant is that fairness is a subjective term(and on a smaller scale) , while game balance approaches the situation from all directions. An example would be that it's unfair that frigates have lower dps than battleships, but it's balanced because they are cheaper, faster, ect. Taxes balance out relative safeness of highsec. Well said, but I disagree. It would be perfectly logical to say that it is fair, rather than unfair, that frigates have lower DPS than battleships because they are cheaper and faster. In other words, it is fair because those few opposing attributes balance them, their strengths and weaknesses offset each other in practice. But it would be unfair if for example the frigate had such low dps that is made their cheapness and speed irrelevant while the battleship remained useful; that is if the scale was tipped slight in favor of the battleship. So in respect to the PI, fairness would mean that the pros and cons of buying and owning a POCO and the costs associated with PI offset each other perfectly, that is balanced each other out. But they don't in reality because the tax rate is above and beyond a reasonable percentage compared to the ultimate practical sale price of the PI commodity. There are other ethical issues involved too however: One is for example that the current POCO system gives older players and large corps an extremely unfair advantage over noobs since only experienced players and corps can afford them in the first place, while the noob is forced into servile industry. Also the safeness argument isn't really fair either. PI isn't so lucrative in the first place to warrant the dangers of low-sec and most likely guaranteed death.
might I relieve you of your worldly belongings? |
Karle Tabot
State War Academy Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 04:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:It was intended as a mechanism to foster pewpew in hi-sec, and to push players out to other areas for PI. Don't think the first one worked out quite as well as they hoped. The second, might work out a bit better. And if not, then the price of PI materials will rise and then it could be worthwhile to pay "outrageous" POCO taxes.
It is hard for me to say from my limited time in the game, but on one of my other characters I was all set to do PI, and then found out about how it is no longer worth it due to the substantially higher taxes in high sec.
Now I have not personally checked it out, so I am taking it as true what some fairly smart and honest people have advised me, and then too, no one witjh those traits has advised me they are wrong. Together, that satisfied me, and so I just abandoned PI totally.
Again I am still new and do not "know", but it seems unless you are in a reasonably strong pvp corp in null or low sec, or in a similar wormhole corp, well you have to pay the taxes. And it also seems more "bad" can happen to your investments of time and isk.
So frankly, not being in a large pirate or similar corp, and not in a good wormhole corp, it seems there is a substantial part of the game that CCP created that is just not going to be workable for me. Now if that applies to just me, no one but me cares. But if that is negatively impacting substantial numbers, as I suspect, perhaps a majority of the players, and especially the newer players, well that might mean activity and engagement and interaction with a large part of the game CCP invested a good bit in, is going to be steadily declining, harkening me to one of my favorite laws of reality: The Law of Unintended Consequences
If the goal of CCP is to try to find ways to tacitly "force" paying customers to play the way CCP wants them to, well put me down as forecasting that just like the other 1000 times it was tried, it will fail. So what happens is rather than seeing the paying customers herded into pvp and all that, you see an exodus from PI. Which I suspect is close to the last thing CCP really wanted.
I hope to one day enjoy that aspect of the game, so I hope they rethink the changes. It is fine and good to allow all sorts of play in a sandbox game, and not so good to favor one segment at the cost of an equally important segment. Best it would seem is to make PI sufficiently profitable to be worth doing in high sec, but much more profitable (and riskier) in low and null sec.
If and when they get the balance right, it will again be attractive and attract more activity. |
Abla Tive
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 05:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
I used to do high sec PI, but stopped once POCO's came in.
Not sure why, maybe cause it was too much effort to determine if my tax money was going to people I didn't mind paying. |
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace Forsaken Asylum
1497
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Posted - 2014.02.03 05:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.
Just not seeing the downside of hundreds of people like you, working for me.
Plenty of opportunity out there -- you just have to get off your buttox and go take it. Have fun, eh ?
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Ryder 'ook
Die..Brut
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 16:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do PI in high sec.
Leave the vicinity of the large trade hubs and you will be able to find nice, quiet regions with very reasonable prices.
Seriously, I don't see your problem. Apart from being too lazy and refusing to adapt, of course.
... and yes, 200 M ISK / month ist still very possible, even as a newbie with sub-par skills and doing PI exclusively in high sec ...
Inform yourself, fly around and leave your comfort zone. Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1550
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 16:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
The great thing about pros and cons is that if you decide the cons aren't worth the pros, you are fully capable of electing to NOT do whatever it was that you were considering doing.
If your analysis says you shouldn't do PI where there are high taxes, then you should celebrate your right to not do PI. Congratulations. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
96753
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 16:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Again, just do it in Low Sec. I use 30 planets and not one is over 2%.
DST's with Cloak/MWD Trick or Blockade Runners with Covops work. Your choice. 30 planets and 5 toons for well over 3 years doing this and only one measly Bustard loss, and I know exactly how that happened.
I have no clue why people are so mortally terrified of Low Sec. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Karle Tabot
State War Academy Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 17:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Batelle wrote:The great thing about pros and cons is that if you decide the cons aren't worth the pros, you are fully capable of electing to NOT do whatever it was that you were considering doing.
If your analysis says you shouldn't do PI where there are high taxes, then you should celebrate your right to not do PI. Congratulations.
I actually agree with you as my earlier post in this thread would show, but I think it remains a valid issue as to whether the most significant end result of the recent changes has been that significantly fewer players now participate in PI. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
162
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 17:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
The changes didn't affect me one jot other than actually giving me lower taxes than the previous interbus CO's. If the taxes changed at my local systems I would simply point out to the owner they will lose the not insubstantial amount of money they get from me if they don't reduce the prices for me. Finding other systems is straight forward. Vote with your ISK and use your position as the owners client. The POCO owners paid for them, they will want the easy money from tax. A little negotiation (if it's even required) can go a long way. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3490
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 17:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
1.) PI in nullsec and lowsec can be very lucrative. I generally make 1.5-2m per day per planet, using a very hands off approach (restart extractor once a day, pickup once every two weeks).
2.) In highsec, you are "more safe". You pay for that safety in the forms of higher taxes and lower rewards.
3.) Move out of the trade hub areas. There are plenty of POCO's you can utilize with low tax rates, and I bet you could even find a place to put up your own, if you so desire.
4.) PI's are a conflict driver. They are an asset in space you can attack, that is always vulnerable (similar to a POS). These provide you benefits, but also are targets. Form a group of people up and go take them, or don't. But don't despair, as it won't get you anywhere in this game.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1553
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 1.) PI in nullsec and lowsec can be very lucrative. I generally make 1.5-2m per day per planet, using a very hands off approach (restart extractor once a day, pickup once every two weeks).
I've found that reseting extractors on 10 planets once every two days to still be too much work :x "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6315
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 17:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
it is unfair i am unable to literally yoke you to my spaceship and whip you to make it move faster but such is life Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
299
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 18:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them.
kill the poco and stick up ur own or cry more? |
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