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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2627
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Posted - 2014.02.05 18:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Aneeda wrote:Weaselior wrote: the RvBee Customs Authority has instituted a 5% rate. this is why you only use genuine RvBee POCOs and not our competitors'
Its too bad there isn't an easy way to find POCO's by tax rate or by Alliance/Corp. If I knew you had a bunch of 5% POCOs near my area I would definitely become a customer.
5% + npc tax. So a minimum of 10%. (Just in case that wasn't clear. I do the same on my POCO. I suspect they make more, I've yet to recoup my investment) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3496
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Posted - 2014.02.05 21:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Aneeda wrote:Weaselior wrote: the RvBee Customs Authority has instituted a 5% rate. this is why you only use genuine RvBee POCOs and not our competitors'
Its too bad there isn't an easy way to find POCO's by tax rate or by Alliance/Corp. If I knew you had a bunch of 5% POCOs near my area I would definitely become a customer. 5% + npc tax. So a minimum of 10%. (Just in case that wasn't clear. I do the same on my POCO. I suspect they make more, I've yet to recoup my investment)
In my POCO owning experience, you don't recoup the POCO cost by taxing other players. You recoup the POCO cost by NOT paying the taxes you would otherwise have to pay.
If you can avoid 10% taxes on 5 toons exporting 200m in POCO materials every month, you'll recoup the cost very fast. As for taxing other players, keep it low. A 2% or less tax rate attracts others to utilize your POCO's and works as an reasonable hazardous pay bonus. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1251
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Dersk wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple. I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.
Join a group that can then.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
01101989
Six Feet Down Under
12
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:01101989 wrote:Dersk wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple. I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless. Join a group that can then.
That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
633
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:01101989 wrote:Dersk wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple. I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless. Join a group that can then. That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is. Playing solo is viable in EVE. But it comes at a distinct disadvantage by design. You have to find your niches and make an effort compared to players teaming up. Team play is encouraged by CCP and that is a good thing. There are enough solo games out there.
Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game. Remove insurance. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
97818
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
01101989 wrote: That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
MMO's are never solo games.
PI is open to anyone who desires.
What game have you actually been playing ?? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1583
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:23:00 -
[67] - Quote
01101989 wrote:That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
PI is open in exactly that way. Owning POCOs are not. The later is not required for the former.
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game.
I remember when I first played you had to like, coordinate with your party for 5-man dungeons. In my subsequent visits to the game, I found elite quest mobs, and elite mobs in general were basically removed from open world pve, and any dungeon group you join has 0 communication and is just chain pulling the whole thing. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
633
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Batelle wrote:01101989 wrote:[quote=Mara Pahrdi]Just look what Blizzard has done to WoW when they removed team play from basically everywhere but raids. It has become a hideous game. I remember when I first played you had to like, coordinate with your party for 5-man dungeons. In my subsequent visits to the game, I found elite quest mobs, and elite mobs in general were basically removed from open world pve, and any dungeon group you join has 0 communication and is just chain pulling the whole thing. Add to that phasing, which means that you cannot interact with or even see other players anymore, that are not at the same point in a quest chain than you.
Or the atrocity of the dungeon finder and its kicking mechanic. And there's still a lot more one could list.
CCP may not get everything right. But at least there's some hope, that they won't go down the single player route too far. Remove insurance. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2017
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
01101989 wrote:
That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
PI is still accessible. In fact in most cases your actual tax rate will be lower than the former NPC corp tax was. So your argument is a bit invalid.
And you pay taxes mining. Either when refining or when selling the ore on the market. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
202
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Posted - 2014.02.07 00:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
Honestly PI in LS isn't that hard, and kind of fun. I've yet to lose a ship at it. You put a cloak, afterburn, and some stabs on a cheap indy do quick transfers at the POCO, and you are very hard to kill. Even if someone blows up your indy it's a couple million to replace. I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
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Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
0
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
I'm sympathetic to the OP: when I came back to EVE I discovered quite after the fact that players, and not NPCs, owned the custom's offices and that up to 1/5 of the ISK my hard work was generating was going to players.
I had about the same reaction to this that the OP appears to have had.
But the upside is that the tax rates drove me to:
1. Experiment with different PI layouts.
2. Manufacture using Basic (and soon, Advanced) Industry Facilities
3. Look at the market to see what products I could make that were valuable enough to overcome the tax rate.
Thus, a post from earlier in this thread is about the best advice you'll get: Ryder 'ook wrote:I do PI in high sec.
Leave the vicinity of the large trade hubs and you will be able to find nice, quiet regions with very reasonable prices.
:snip:
Inform yourself, fly around and leave your comfort zone. This.
Get out there, mix it up and try new things.
Part of the EVE experience is learning*. Enjoy that and you'll eventually overcome whatever costs associated with PI that you're incurring.
Good luck.
*Like shooting a Customs Office out of frustration, only to learn the local Mercenary/Criminal Corp owns it, and so I've given them kill rights on me for a month. Good times! ;) |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
891
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Posted - 2014.02.07 04:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
01101989 wrote:Dersk wrote:01101989 wrote:Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. Then, don't let them have it. Such Simple. I don't have the capability to pop POCOS. Newbs or newb corps are completely unable to engage in PI do to this. An entire aspect of the game completely pointless.
It would seem pointless if you have limited your own income by doing PI in High Sec.
You can do PI at very very low tax rates.
The problem is where you have chosen to do yours.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
891
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Posted - 2014.02.07 04:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
01101989 wrote:
That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
You are wrong. It's an MMO - you need to find a good corp and with numbers you can get what you want.
In EVE: The Best ship = Friendship. Without the best ship - you can't win at eve.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
27
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Posted - 2014.02.08 09:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
After the change, I ragequit all my highsec PI setups. Just skilled into a Prowler, lowsec here I come!
I have a sneaking suspicion that this is exactly what CCP wants me to do.... I feel so used! |
ST0NER SMURF
Vrix Nation
216
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:52:00 -
[75] - Quote
did nonen mention ya can bypass the poc and launch directly inspace ? ______________________________________________________________________-á
GÖ˝ When your pod gets blown to bits GÖ¬GÖ˝ And you lose your implant fits GÖ¬\G˙+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ˝ GÖ¬ GÖ˝GÖ˝ GÖ¬ GÖ˝ GÖ¬ Be Happy \G˙+/ |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
673
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 00:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lido Seahawk wrote:After the change, I ragequit all my highsec PI setups. Just skilled into a Prowler, lowsec here I come! I have a sneaking suspicion that this is exactly what CCP wants me to do.... I feel so used!
Sometimes it can be fun to be "used" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
98580
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Posted - 2014.02.09 17:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marsan wrote:Honestly PI in LS isn't that hard, and kind of fun. I've yet to lose a ship at it. You put a cloak, afterburn, and some stabs on a cheap indy do quick transfers at the POCO, and you are very hard to kill. Even if someone blows up your indy it's a couple million to replace. I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up.
Bull hockey !
The Covops Blockade Runners are almost impossible to catch. The Deep Space Transports are almost uncatchable with 3 additional Warp Stabs hanging off them.
Almost 4 years, 5 toons and 30 planets, all in Low, I've only lost one Bustard the entire time. And I know exactly how it happened.
To give your advice above, you must have been doing something wrong. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Zenito
Clan Katanga Caravan
54
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Bull hockey !
The Covops Blockade Runners are almost impossible to catch. The Deep Space Transports are almost uncatchable with 3 additional Warp Stabs hanging off them.
Almost 4 years, 5 toons and 30 planets, all in Low, I've only lost one Bustard the entire time. And I know exactly how it happened.
To give your advice above, you must have been doing something wrong.
He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.
"Pirates. Scoundrels. Vagabonds. The most enigmatic of all the Minmatar tribes members are called many things, but no one truly knows them. I have researched them perhaps more than any scholar alive and still I know nothing.." - The Travels of Germone Ferush |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
673
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 15:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
01101989 wrote:That's is the issue. Eve isn't just a multiplayer game. It's also a solo game as well. PI should be open to everyone just like mining is.
SInce Eve is a solo game I wonder if she's selling the stuff she gets from PI to herself or maybe CCP added NPC buyers? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
98863
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 17:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zenito wrote: He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.
Excuse me, but the point of his quote (had you read it) is:
"I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up."
It's a broad declaration about something that he has obviously not even tried and knows absolutely nothing about. Just a "fluff of a thought tossed off out into the Web"......and nothing more or better. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
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Marsan
Caldari Provisions
206
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Posted - 2014.02.10 20:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Marsan wrote:Honestly PI in LS isn't that hard, and kind of fun. I've yet to lose a ship at it. You put a cloak, afterburn, and some stabs on a cheap indy do quick transfers at the POCO, and you are very hard to kill. Even if someone blows up your indy it's a couple million to replace. I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up. Bull hockey ! The Covops Blockade Runners are almost impossible to catch. The Deep Space Transports are almost uncatchable with 3 additional Warp Stabs hanging off them. Almost 4 years, 5 toons and 30 planets, all in Low, I've only lost one Bustard the entire time. And I know exactly how it happened. To give your advice above, you must have been doing something wrong.
I'm not sure how I can be doing it wrong if I'm not getting blown up. I don't disagree that Blockage Runners, and DST aren't harder to catch. What I'm saying is that a well flown, and well fit cheap indy is also hard to catch on a gate LS*. It's a question of what you are hauling, and how many jumps you are facing. If I'm planning on hauling something very valuable or over a long distance in LS, or wspace a BR or DST is the right choice. If I'm doing PI a jump or 2 into LS or a wormhole my odds of getting blown up are very low, and for me personally have more to do with how well I paying attention than what I'm flying. If I lose 5 cheap Indys for every DST or BR while hauling PI I'm still ahead.
Not to mention the OP is fairly new to the game. He likely can't fly a DST or BR, and lacks the experience to fly one well. He is better off flying a bunch of cheap Indys than skilllng up a ship he can't afford to lose, and will lose.
Note: Obviously if the gate is heavily camped you'll meet an insta lock camp with enough point or dps, but most of LS doesn't have "elite" campers on every gate. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
61
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Posted - 2014.02.11 09:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
If you are doing PI in high-sec then you are doing it wrong TBH. The yields in null so outweigh the high-sec yields that it is laughable. 10x - 20x more in some cases. Also, join a corp with people, eve is not a single player game as much as you might wish it. Hell, the only reason anyone really plays this game anymore is for the interactions with other players, the eve client is just the portal into the "holly **** that just happened," stories that keep us playing. |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
59
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Posted - 2014.02.11 21:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Zenito wrote: He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.
Excuse me, but the point of his quote (had you read it) is: "I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up." It's a broad declaration about something that he has obviously not even tried and knows absolutely nothing about. Just a "fluff of a thought tossed off out into the Web"......and nothing more or better. T1 haulers cost under 5 mil normally, T2 over 100 mil. What he means by marginal additional survivability is that their additional survivability is far less than their additional cost. Its a personal assessment and should be understood as such, rather than trying to pretend to intellectual sophistication talking about fluffs of thought when he pretty clearly knows exactly what hes talking about. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2027
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Zenito wrote: He doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong. As he says, he's yet to lose a ship at it. That's doing it right. And cheaply too.
Excuse me, but the point of his quote (had you read it) is: "I'd use a T2 hauler, but their cost vs their marginal survivablity doesn't add up." It's a broad declaration about something that he has obviously not even tried and knows absolutely nothing about. Just a "fluff of a thought tossed off out into the Web"......and nothing more or better. T1 haulers cost under 5 mil normally, T2 over 100 mil. What he means by marginal additional survivability is that their additional survivability is far less than their additional cost. Its a personal assessment and should be understood as such, rather than trying to pretend to intellectual sophistication talking about fluffs of thought when he pretty clearly knows exactly what hes talking about.
This is compounded by the effect of industrial ship rebalancing. Now with an Epithal you can commit all slots and rigs to survivability and GTFO rather than cargo space and still have 67500m3 of PI storage. |
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