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Ramone Ormand
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.02.04 09:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I think at release from memory they could never use star gates. Perhaps a more reasonable explanation for it is the empires don't feel comfortable with capsuleers being able to amass fleets of capitals and so stargate operators just don't allow them to jump.
From what I understand the lore part of no caps built in highsec was due to a cap crashing into a station in Yulai however given we crash freighters into stations all the time and just bounce off doing no damage whatsoever it's pretty silly but then we are talking about the NPC empires, I've killed that weirdo in Goonristas Extravaganza a few hundred times at least and he still tells me he's going to take care of me every damn time.
Grrrr Goonristas
oh wow, that's something I didn't know. Thanks for your post! The thing that stumps me about it then is why they can't use them in stargates between nullsec - nullsec (besides gameplay reasons of course!) Since the empires have no control over nullsec - although they might have control of the stargates, i'm not sure.
Another thing to think about - if CCP decides to allow capsuleers to build their own stargates in the future, the empires will have 0 control over them, therefore the stargate operators won't be told to not let capitals jump, meaning (besides game play reasons that CCP would have to discuss) it is technically feasible that Carriers and Dreadnaughts could use star gates in the future. |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
116
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Posted - 2014.02.04 10:20:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ramone Ormand wrote: Another thing to think about - if CCP decides to allow capsuleers to build their own stargates in the future, the empires will have 0 control over them, therefore the stargate operators won't be told to not let capitals jump, meaning (besides game play reasons that CCP would have to discuss) it is technically feasible that Carriers and Dreadnaughts could use star gates in the future.
Maybe they should do exactly that with those new stargates. Make them usable by carriers/dreads etc but at the same time, disable jump drives in those new systems. That way, you couldn-¦t control all those new systems from one single system with a titan bridge inside/a carrierfleet inside that is able to jump anywhere in that new region instantly. Without jumpfreighters, logistics would become a very interesting thing too. Freighter convoys? Blockade running adventurers? |
Infinity Ziona
Drags are Bud
1609
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:16:00 -
[63] - Quote
Charlie Firpol wrote:Ramone Ormand wrote: Another thing to think about - if CCP decides to allow capsuleers to build their own stargates in the future, the empires will have 0 control over them, therefore the stargate operators won't be told to not let capitals jump, meaning (besides game play reasons that CCP would have to discuss) it is technically feasible that Carriers and Dreadnaughts could use star gates in the future.
Maybe they should do exactly that with those new stargates. Make them usable by carriers/dreads etc but at the same time, disable jump drives in those new systems. That way, you couldn-¦t control all those new systems from one single system with a titan bridge inside/a carrierfleet inside that is able to jump anywhere in that new region instantly. Without jumpfreighters, logistics would become a very interesting thing too. Freighter convoys? Blockade running adventurers? Yeah, not sure if you played before jump drives but the convoys to get stuff to empire we're pretty cool (if you weren't one of the indies that is :) |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
427
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:CCP could enable capital ships to traverse high sec but they would be limited in what they can do of course: ... the idea is that while not in wardecs or being attacked, capital ships would only serve as hauling ships, they have the permission to pass and defend themselves if attacked, but they wont be able to do any PvE content, mining included, since their place should be out of high sec
but, but, what about Chribba's Veldnaught ?!? |
Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
264
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
back in days long past when downtimes were an hour long and Guard was a mere twinkle in CONCORD's logs; you used to be able to traverse capital ships into hi-sec.
It didn't last because of the utter chaos it wrought. Now, currently the only hi-sec capital ship that I am aware of is Chribba's Veld-naught (with explicit requirements attached). If you have a capital ship in hi-sec it now normally magically moved, but you could travel in one direction via the stargates a loooooong time ago towards low/null. it actively stopped you going back into higher sec spaces. Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
111
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The reason is simple. When capitals were introduced they could be built in and enter high sec. I believe that cyno's could also be lit in high sec. 100% of the player base could use them, as is fair since 100% of the player base pay for the development of EVE. Now unfortunately, there is a very tiny whiny portion of the player base that feel entitled to 100% of the development of EVE while denying most of the development to the majority of the player base. Lets call this tiny portion Poop Socking Nerds or PSN's. The latter group we'll call the Ignored Subscribers of EvE or ISE's. So when caps were released everything was fair, however the PSN's cried and whined and grovelled to CCP to make caps only available to them, and to remove caps from use by the ISE's. CCP being best mates with a lot of the PSN's (due to the way the company seems to mix inappropriately with PSN's - Case in Point Link) decided that was a good idea. Some of the arguments were along the lines of Caps can do missions! Caps can insta-shot ships. Caps crash into stations (lore BS) but not really were worthy of the bytes they wasted on the interwebs. They were **** poor arguments made for the xpress purpose of removing content paid for by all and giving it to a very small segment of CCP's best mates - the PSN's or null sec crowd. The simple fact is there is absolutely no reason for caps not to be able to enter high sec. But like everything in EVE if the PSN want something exclusively they're conveniently flown to Iceland every once in a while, likely go boozing with the devs after having their private chats and get what they want. If CCP was to be transparent, fair and give everyone equal content for their subscriptions they would do away with their arbitrary prejudicial limitations, do away with their rigged system of "electing" CSM's (I'd be happy to volunteer to be a CSM, I have been playing since 2003, have a good understanding of the game, have alternate views about what should be happening, but currently while I could probably get 1k votes, the big alliances can get up to 37k x 3 (with alts)). So what you have is a CSM that is entirely for PSN's and nobody else. In short if you want to know why anything in EVE is the way it is, look to the CSM, look to the alliance influence on CPP and look to the vote rigging whenever elections come around. The best thing to do is ignore the CCP / Alliance Cronism and try to enjoy the game as best you can. Things won't change.
No, that was a bug. They never intended for the Veldnaught and other caps in hs to be there. it was a mistake, that was fixed shortly after.
Edit: Ah, no I am mistaken, I found this old dev blog that proves me wrong, my bad http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/dreadnoughts-jump-drives/ |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
218
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Posted - 2014.02.04 19:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ships & Modules...... Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3142
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
There are no capitals in hisec because CONCORD says so.
The non-lore response is: There are no capitals in hisec because CCP says so.
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
123
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Posted - 2014.02.04 21:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ramone Ormand wrote: How much does a Nidhoggur weigh? 1,014,750,000 kgs. 1.014 billion kgs How much does a Rhea/Charon weigh? 960,000,000 kgs. 0.96 billion kgs
Actually if they're in space, they wouldn't weigh anything.
Also weight would depend on the gravity of the planet / moon they were sitting on.
But then, ships do bank turn so obviously we are flying in an atmosphere. It just has the appearance of space. |
Ramone Ormand
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Ramone Ormand wrote: How much does a Nidhoggur weigh? 1,014,750,000 kgs. 1.014 billion kgs How much does a Rhea/Charon weigh? 960,000,000 kgs. 0.96 billion kgs
Actually if they're in space, they wouldn't weigh anything. Also weight would depend on the gravity of the planet / moon they were sitting on. But then, ships do bank turn so obviously we are flying in an atmosphere. It just has the appearance of space.
Sorry, I misused the word Weight with Mass. You're right, in space objects are weightless. They still have mass though. Mass is weighed in Kg and weight is technically weighed in Newtons (N). So the Nidhoggur has 5% more mass than the Charon. In space, they're both weightless |
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Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
211
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:28:00 -
[71] - Quote
because every space is unique, they have no purpose to fulfill in high sec it's a busy place on it's own no need whatsoever for them to be there, from a lore standpoint freighter capitals are allowed because they don't represent a danger to the citizens of highsec, all the others do and can be a big threat and concord doesn't want to deal with that ****, and it's the last bit of place for "pvp" without caps and being hot dropped because someone is afraid of a 3 frigate gang... , well except WHs but not everyone lives there.
Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
shimiku
Black VooDoo Asassins Cult of War
5
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Posted - 2014.02.05 08:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:CCP could enable capital ships to traverse high sec but they would be limited in what they can do of course:
-they would still need to use cynos
-they wouldnt be able to remote repair
-they wouldnt be able to launch drones/fighters or use EWAR, energy disruption and weapon modules
-they would be locked from mission sites and anomalies/DED sites...
-they can repair themselves and use propulsion methods
-capital ships can interact in duels and defend if agressed by players, its the only moment where they have combat enabled
the idea is that while not in wardecs or being attacked, capital ships would only serve as hauling ships, they have the permission to pass and defend themselves if attacked, but they wont be able to do any PvE content, mining included, since their place should be out of high sec
then they might as well just be disabled in high sec as they are now it will be like saying you can build your own station in high sec but cant dock on it |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
984
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Posted - 2014.02.05 09:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Chaotix Morwen wrote:This is just postulation on my part, freighters and jump freighters are specifically designed to be able to move freely in high sec, it would be likely that due to this that they have a number of inbuilt systems designed to reduce the burden on the stargates, some kind of a heavy warp stabilizer and advanced computing system which greatly reduces the load on the gate and allows it to move something that is possibly vastly over its normal mass capabilities. Of course the cost of this ability is the inability to mount any more equipment as all of its power and cpu is required to run this stargate efficiency program.
Carriers however are designed to have specialized combat uses, to get a similar system operating in them would require far too much sacrifice of its combat modules. Even though the Nidhoggur only has a roughly 5% difference in mass from a Charon, with the theory posted above the difference between its mass and the gates mass capability will be far higher. which would explain why the various capital designers did not even attempt to design a combat capital with the capacity to operate gates (to do that they would essentially be building a battleship).
I don't have anything to backup what I've said above, but at the very least its a way to explain the game mechanics without stuffing up eve lore.
This. And the fact that the empires are probably happily inventing new reasons to refuse capsuleer capital ships in high-sec to keep their power.
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
Effect One
Vengeful Swan
106
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Posted - 2014.02.05 09:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
All ships broadcast their ship type and name. We know this since your directional scanner picks up these broadcasts when you do a scan.
Concord has agreed with the Empires that capsuleer capital ships of a certain type will not be allowed entry into high security space. With entities such as Goonswarm and the like floating about taking vast swathes of unclaimed 0.0, the empires also have vested interests in disrupting capsuleer logistics where possible in order to prevent these alliances becoming too powerful to handle. Concord does not wish to see the empires destabilised even further and has agreed to lock capital ships out of star gates entirely. The Empires, with their vast wealth and virtually unlimited logistics chains do not have to worry about cynosural fields within their own space and have agreed not to allow their own capital ships to use stargates either in order to keep up this pretense.
When your capital ship attempts to use a star gate therefore, the gate picks up your ship broadcast and determines whether it is of a class that should be allowed to jump. If it is not you are told that the ship is too large for the gate to handle.
Or, this is all just bollocks. Play the game.
'EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay' - CCP Rise |
Ramone Ormand
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.02.05 10:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Effect One wrote:
When your capital ship attempts to use a star gate therefore, the gate picks up your ship broadcast and determines whether it is of a class that should be allowed to jump. If it is not you are told that the ship is too large for the gate to handle.
I agree. What do you think would occur when/if capsuleers ever build their own stargates then? Ie. stargates that are not CONCORD controlled? |
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